Northern daoism vs Southern daoism

[freeform]

I've come up with a saying that's appropriate for the internet age.

 

The saying goes:

 

If it quacks like a duck - but says it's a swan - you better poke it and see what sound comes out.

 

Whenever I've met anyone who's undertaken (and succeeded in) any difficult human endeavour - what I've noticed, without fail, is a deep respect and humility towards their area of mastery. Be it a masterful concert pianist, a world-class surgeon, a celebrated craftsman - or an internal arts practitioner.

 

Imagine a room full of dedicated pianists. Ones that have put many years into arduous training - you know 6hrs a day practice, several demanding teachers, calluses on the fingers etc... And suddenly someone bursts in and claims they've mastered the piano - it's ok - but they've invented a whole new piano, and a much better musical field altogether, with a reinvented musical scale based on quantum physics and all that wonderful stuff...

 

Would you expect everyone to run up to this musical messiah, hug him, adore him, ask him questions that lead to the outpouring of his quantum wisdom?

 

Or would you expect a room full of raised eyebrows, with the majority getting back to their interrupted conversations - and a couple of the more friendly ones engaging the fellow... "Ok let's see your piano mastery first - then we'll listen to what you've got to say"

 

Except here, we're not talking about the piano - we're talking about spiritual cultivation, alchemy, and enlightenment - these are by far the most difficult of human endeavours. There are thousands of masterful concert pianists on earth right now. But the vast majority of those attempting this spiritual stuff - throughout all of history - have not managed to achieve the end goal. This includes people born into the tradition and trained from the day they were born to achieve this - no school, just living and breathing this training for their whole life, assisted by the greatest teachers around... and even they fail to achieve enlightenment...

 

Yet here you are - claiming to be taught by someone with no discernable background and a made-up name. You claim to have achieved enlightenment, and you've also come up with a whole new system of cultivation based on some obscure physics terminology... And not only that, but you expect to make a 'shit load of money' on it.

 

You're effectively claiming to be the next Buddha, the new Lu Dongbin, the next Jesus - yet you're upset that we don't immediately show you the respect...

 

Consider yourself poked @Tombajo

 

All I've heard so far is quacking.

 

Prove me wrong!

 

I'd be glad to meet the new Lu Dongbin!

[Cleansox]

🦆

Or perhaps another animal with a similar sound. 

🐸

 

There is already a quantum based Nei Dan manual available as a pdf online @Tombajo, so you might be a tad late on that specific money train. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Cleansox
Added stuff

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, freeform said:

I've come up with a saying that's appropriate for the internet age.

 

The saying goes:

 

If it quacks like a duck - but says it's a swan - you better poke it and see what sound comes out.

 

Whenever I've met anyone who's undertaken (and succeeded in) any difficult human endeavour - what I've noticed, without fail, is a deep respect and humility towards their area of mastery. Be it a masterful concert pianist, a world-class surgeon, a celebrated craftsman - or an internal arts practitioner.

 

Imagine a room full of dedicated pianists. Ones that have put many years into arduous training - you know 6hrs a day practice, several demanding teachers, calluses on the fingers etc... And suddenly someone bursts in and claims they've mastered the piano - it's ok - but they've invented a whole new piano, and a much better musical field altogether, with a reinvented musical scale based on quantum physics and all that wonderful stuff...

 

Would you expect everyone to run up to this musical messiah, hug him, adore him, ask him questions that lead to the outpouring of his quantum wisdom?

 

Or would you expect a room full of raised eyebrows, with the majority getting back to their interrupted conversations - and a couple of the more friendly ones engaging the fellow... "Ok let's see your piano mastery first - then we'll listen to what you've got to say"

 

Except here, we're not talking about the piano - we're talking about spiritual cultivation, alchemy, and enlightenment - these are by far the most difficult of human endeavours. There are thousands of masterful concert pianists on earth right now. But the vast majority of those attempting this spiritual stuff - throughout all of history - have not managed to achieve the end goal. This includes people born into the tradition and trained from the day they were born to achieve this - no school, just living and breathing this training for their whole life, assisted by the greatest teachers around... and even they fail to achieve enlightenment...

 

Yet here you are - claiming to be taught by someone with no discernable background and a made-up name. You claim to have achieved enlightenment, and you've also come up with a whole new system of cultivation based on some obscure physics terminology... And not only that, but you expect to make a 'shit load of money' on it.

 

You're effectively claiming to be the next Buddha, the new Lu Dongbin, the next Jesus - yet you're upset that we don't immediately show you the respect...

 

Consider yourself poked @Tombajo

 

All I've heard so far is quacking.

 

Prove me wrong!

 

I'd be glad to meet the new Lu Dongbin!

 

When I was a university student, it was summarized in two words by my professor: "Who cares?"

 

We could talk about child soldiers, sex slaves, human trafficking--this was an international relations class and we came up with many global issues for our presentations. Nobody got more than a B because there was no focus beyond describing what the issue was. 

 

He said "Who cares?" because whatever the issue was, why should anyone take it seriously? 

 

Speaking for myself on the topic of anyone making claims about cultivation skills and understanding, I just repeat an old maxim: "By the fruits ye shall be known." 

[Cleansox]

9 hours ago, Tombajo said:

I am not really into discussing linage and systematic processes that most people haven't got a clue, how to do it.    

Don't worry, noone here will discuss systematic processes in detail. Most that actually got a clue, believe that one have to earn that knowledge by effort. 

 

That's why we can discuss lineage and abstract systematic processes, it is like a friendly martial drill where we test if the other part knows the same basic moves, if the other part has learned other strategies, or if we accidentally smack the other persons head. 

[Master Logray]

It is the first time I read someone  " achieved enlightenment many years ago from southern doaism ", congrat Tombajo!  Actually how it feels?

 

Coming back to different Taoist paths, it is not only the north and the south.  There are the central and the west.  And even a hermit path.   If you really have achieved a high level,  you know it is not prudent to shift to another inner system.   There are dangers.

 

 

[Tombajo]

Hahaha ok ok obviously y'all know way more then me. LMAO I am humbled by all of y'all's immense wisdom and understanding of our universe and beyond. I am definitely open to meeting anyone that wants to share with me their understanding of it. Or why not let's post vids.......after all there should be proof, right? I mean if y'all are masters you should be able to do what little old arrogant me can do, right? I wonder why, I already know it will only be me that's willing to post vids???? Proof is in skill not talking a bunch of nonsense.......y'all are so hilarious.....

[Tombajo]

Let's do meet. You do realize Daoist settle their difference in battle. Someone did mention smacking my head. So are you serious. I haven't fought for many years, because I can't find anyone worthy to fight. However I do miss it. So if y'all are masters, please let's meet and do battle and let fate decide who is legit and who are fake pretenders. I hope you realize it is so easy for me to tell y'all haven't mastered any of this. vid 1    vid 2

I find it so hilarious fake masters are talking shit to me..... You do realize I am walking as I punch...... do you even realize what that means? How damn hilarious.... please do respond let's meet and have fun. No one wants to fight me anymore.......it would be a blessing for me.....LMAO

 

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, Tombajo said:

Hahaha ok ok obviously y'all know way more then me. LMAO I am humbled by all of y'all's immense wisdom and understanding of our universe and beyond. I am definitely open to meeting anyone that wants to share with me their understanding of it. Or why not let's post vids.......after all there should be proof, right? I mean if y'all are masters you should be able to do what little old arrogant me can do, right? I wonder why, I already know it will only be me that's willing to post vids???? Proof is in skill not talking a bunch of nonsense.......y'all are so hilarious.....

 

19 minutes ago, Tombajo said:

Let's do meet. You do realize Daoist settle their difference in battle. Someone did mention smacking my head. So are you serious. I haven't fought for many years, because I can't find anyone worthy to fight. However I do miss it. So if y'all are masters, please let's meet and do battle and let fate decide who is legit and who are fake pretenders. I hope you realize it is so easy for me to tell y'all haven't mastered any of this. vid 1    vid 2

I find it so hilarious fake masters are talking shit to me..... You do realize I am walking as I punch...... do you even realize what that means? How damn hilarious.... please do respond let's meet and have fun. No one wants to fight me anymore.......it would be a blessing for me.....LMAO

 

Strong words there... but your videos are private and no one can see them.

 

Also, if a video ends arguments, then the Mo Pai threads wouldn’t go as long as they did.

 

The forum actually is happy to have you...just work on some humility and openness, k?

[Cleansox]

1 hour ago, Tombajo said:

 

I mean if y'all are masters you should be able to do what little old arrogant me can do, right? 

So, what can little old arrogant you do, that is relevant to the great goal of Awakening, Liberation and shedding the husk? 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Cleansox

[Cleansox]

20 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 your videos are private 

I hope they are not "private", since one of the practical subjects @Tombajo has discussed is the method of driving with stick shift...

 

Looking forward to see these vids, with scientists and medical doctors present to do their best to rule out fraud. 

[Tombajo]

they are live now... so do watch and do post your vids of something....... You don't shed a husk unless you don't know how to cultivate your darkmatter body....... it is called immortality for a reason.... you wouldn't know that, because you can't read about it. My punch demonstrates mastery of this step.... and if not by all means do demonstrate, at least the same. I already know you can't. However  let's just meet. Are you a coward and all talk? I can easily show you in person...... I already know your going to say the vids are fake; so let's meet and see who is for real and who is fake as shit......Do you know why Daoist are warriors? Do you even know what is waiting for you on the other side? LMAO Heaven is earned and if you don't earn it through mastering consciousness here; you are in store for some tough lessons. Where are your vids???? why wait for mine???? LMAO    Y'all are the most ignorant yet arrogant people I have talked to in a long time. So damn funny 

[Cleansox]

1 hour ago, Tombajo said:

 

My punch demonstrates mastery of this step.

No. 

 

Most people would say you have to cultivate your light body, also called yang shen in this context. And a person could do a wonderful punch without that being correllated with spiritual training. 

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Cleansox
Being nice, earning goodie points. 😁

[freeform]

I don’t think the intention was to agitate you to the point of wanting to fight everyone 

 

Why not look at things from our perspective. You’ve come to the forum claiming you’re enlightened - that’s a pretty big claim. If you really are enlightened then you shouldn’t have trouble understanding the skepticism you’re met with.

 

Instead of challenging us to a fight, why not tell us more about your training with 9 clouds?

 

Where did you train? For how long? What was the nature of the training? What have been some of your experiences? What is your understanding of Xing and Ming and how it relates to alchemy, neigong and meditative practice? When did you achieve your enlightenment? What led up to it? Did you also live as a wondering hermit? What did you eat? Where would you sleep?

 

There are millions of people with wild theories - but very few who’ve actually gone into in-depth training like yourself @Tombajo
 

You’re probably right that this isn’t the place for you if you expect to be granted a platform to talk about your latest theories - without backing it all up with your experience.

 

If you’re a genuine peer and practitioner of these amazing arts then you’ll be welcomed with open arms.

Edited September 10, 2020 by freeform

[Earl Grey]

2 hours ago, Tombajo said:

they are live now... so do watch and do post your vids of something....... You don't shed a husk unless you don't know how to cultivate your darkmatter body....... it is called immortality for a reason.... you wouldn't know that, because you can't read about it. My punch demonstrates mastery of this step.... and if not by all means do demonstrate, at least the same. I already know you can't. However  let's just meet. Are you a coward and all talk? I can easily show you in person...... I already know your going to say the vids are fake; so let's meet and see who is for real and who is fake as shit......Do you know why Daoist are warriors? Do you even know what is waiting for you on the other side? LMAO Heaven is earned and if you don't earn it through mastering consciousness here; you are in store for some tough lessons. Where are your vids???? why wait for mine???? LMAO    Y'all are the most ignorant yet arrogant people I have talked to in a long time. So damn funny 

 

 

 

So what are we supposed to see or be looking for here? 

 

[Tombajo]

Agitate.....as if you are capable of that. Y'all really give yourselves more credit then you deserve. Actually I love battle. I haven't been able to fight in many years for I don't want to hurt people. It's kind of a side effect of learning how to actually love people. You actually feel their pain. I guess since y'all are masters you already know that. Silly people.....no it is just a sure fire way to get to proof when obviously y'all don't have any..... There is always evdience of mastery..... Aka you can do things that seem impossible for others. Actually of course we all can do these things, they require you to have much more consciousness then you currently have..... Y'all should really stop lying to people. Go find a real teacher and apply your beautiful imagination to reality....... You can't even tell that I am laughing my ass off at you. However what about the people you are deceiving with your fake teachings..... In reality this stuff is not as hard as you think. It's only because you are building fake realities that it is difficult for you (aka inneressence is really your connection to god or the dao) I highly suggest you repent and stop misleading people. You will pay the price when you die if you do not..... Y'all are so naive...... You do realize it is so easy for me to find you if that was my intent..... Ok since you can not do the same and everyone knows you won't be posting any vids just like I said. It is a waste for me to continue this conversation. Please heed my warning things are much different on the otherside. Actually I can't stand to see people in pain it seems to hurt me worse then it does them, do to their numbness. You haven't even realize that is why I am even talking to you.......Do you really think I am foolish enough to think you are going to trust me at face value. Lairs and decievers never trust other people to be honest and truthful.... So you are kind of in a self diluted trap and don't know it. You need to be honest.....if you can't start from that type of space how will you ever truly understand any of this..... It is actually sad to me to see people trapped in their own delusions.........hence why I am even attempting to reach you. However we have reached an impasse..... I have given you obvious proof of what you can not do.... So any thing else is a waste of my time. I really hope you heed my warnings......if you don't know how to actually love people; you are going to attract not so nice things to you. You want to know whats directly on the otherside. Go outside and look at nature... What do you see? It is breath taking beyond measure, right? However look closer and you will start to see death, decay, and destruction....... It is the exact same..... Except like energy attracts.....this is why if you can't control and cultivate your emotions.....well I guess you already know

 

...Good luck y'all are going to need it....

[Earl Grey]

5 minutes ago, Tombajo said:

Agitate.....as if you are capable of that. Y'all really give yourselves more credit then you deserve. Actually I love battle. I haven't been able to fight in many years for I don't want to hurt people. It's kind of a side effect of learning how to actually love people. You actually feel their pain. I guess since y'all are masters you already know that. Silly people.....no it is just a sure fire way to get to proof when obviously y'all don't have any..... There is always evdience of mastery..... Aka you can do things that seem impossible for others. Actually of course we all can do these things, they require you to have much more consciousness then you currently have..... Y'all should really stop lying to people. Go find a real teacher and apply your beautiful imagination to reality....... You can't even tell that I am laughing my ass off at you. However what about the people you are deceiving with your fake teachings..... In reality this stuff is not as hard as you think. It's only because you are building fake realities that it is difficult for you (aka inneressence is really your connection to god or the dao) I highly suggest you repent and stop misleading people. You will pay the price when you die if you do not..... Y'all are so naive...... You do realize it is so easy for me to find you if that was my intent..... Ok since you can not do the same and everyone knows you won't be posting any vids just like I said. It is a waste for me to continue this conversation. Please heed my warning things are much different on the otherside. Actually I can't stand to see people in pain it seems to hurt me worse then it does them, do to their numbness. You haven't even realize that is why I am even talking to you.......Do you really think I am foolish enough to think you are going to trust me at face value. Lairs and decievers never trust other people to be honest and truthful.... So you are kind of in a self diluted trap and don't know it. You need to be honest.....if you can't start from that type of space how will you ever truly understand any of this..... It is actually sad to me to see people trapped in their own delusions.........hence why I am even attempting to reach you. However we have reached an impasse..... I have given you obvious proof of what you can not do.... So any thing else is a waste of my time. I really hope you heed my warnings......if you don't know how to actually love people; you are going to attract not so nice things to you. You want to know whats directly on the otherside. Go outside and look at nature... What do you see? It is breath taking beyond measure, right? However look closer and you will start to see death, decay, and destruction....... It is the exact same..... Except like energy attracts.....this is why if you can't control and cultivate your emotions.....well I guess you already know

 

...Good luck y'all are going to need it....

I don’t know what you’re talking about anymore or whom you’re addressing, but I certainly still haven’t had my question answered about your videos. 

[Tombajo]

Oh I will be switching the vids back to private they were only for you to see if you to posted vids.............

 

If you don't know what you are seeing, then there is nothing else to say........

[SirPalomides]

Yet another once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to learn from an enlightened being, spurned by the ungrateful, cackling hyenas of TDB.

[Earl Grey]

1 minute ago, Tombajo said:

Oh I will be switching the vids back to private they were only for you to see if you to posted vids.............

 

If you don't know what you are seeing, then there is nothing else to say........

I come from a totally different system and I can’t make any assumptions. I know how we train to fajin in two different lineages and they are completely different.

 

Your video doesn’t tell me anything. You claim it will win your argument, but like someone who flashes a meme and thinks that an argument is over, there is still the importance of making sure it is a relevant point. Otherwise, all you’re doing is saying “1963” and that means nothing to me, then you say “November 22” and I assume the Kennedy assassination, then you say, “NO! Not it! It’s obvious!”

 

 You still haven’t given any context and if you think we’re all going to magically understand it, either your practice is unique and something that someone like me is unfamiliar with, or you don’t know or don’t want to say anything, which leaves us only to conclude it’s nothing special without the crucial information necessary to understand.

[Cleansox]

On 2020-09-10 at 3:48 PM, Tombajo said:

 

There is always evdience of mastery..... Aka you can do things that seem impossible for others. 

Based upon the information @Tombajo has given us here, the vids shows how to relieve "stick shift cramp".

 

And, if it is like you have implied and we are having a loving conversation with Joel (edit) , maybe you should understand that in this place, your bio doesn't stand out. 

 

There are persons here who have practiced since the 60-ties. 

Having learned from masters in different countries, well thats 13 on the dozen here. Personal student, having generation numbers, stuff like that, its not really impressive here. 

Awakening experiences, mystical union, same there. 

 

It's no big deal, because there are also many here who have long time relationship with teachers that have all that and more. 

 

So most don't brag. 

Most don't compare. 

And few try to go out the back and fight it out. 

And quite a few here have the understanding of how their methods work, in classic theory as well as in actual practice. 

 

Feel free to join in, find a topic to discuss. But come with challenges? 

Cmon, who cares? 

I mean, really? 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Cleansox
Removed the last name, even though the poster supplied links to it, it was probably not his intention to be immortalized here.

[beingnature]

Hello tombajo, this thread is really confusing. I think people should have asked HOW you will modernise what you learned.i mean i can understand the criticism because there a lot of bullshit self made systems.but in some way wang xianzhai also modernised xing yi......

 

That wouldnt have put you into this "defender role". People are often way to fast when communicating over the internet.

If i did knew that i have awesome stuff and everybody directly critices or even laughs about i dont how i would have reacted but i am more a let them talk person then a fighter.

 

 

 

I can relate to what you say about dark energy but i find it difficult to use science language for those experiences.i got catapulted out of the center of  head and got shot through " hyperspace " into a "blackhole" , i also perceived this world as a dream but it frightened me off.since this "blackhole" experience the energy in my system got so strong that i blackouted a few times during qigong. ( practiced zhang zhuang for around 7 years intensly, then got into spontaneous qigong on my own ) since then i could do some energy healings on others also long distance that were quite amazing.

 

 

As for your videos. Its not so easy for me to put in words.in my experience fajins that come out of nothing like the ones you do walking ,are only possible if you are in a very special state, there has to be alchemy  going on. Its not like start a movement by initiating it from lower dantian what a lot taiji systems do. I also noticed that your breathing was in harmony with the strike what speaks for a good "mind body connection".

 

When i do spontaneous qigong i sometimes get into a drunken immortal state. Energy changes completely ,also my perception.when fajinscome out in this state they are again very different.

 

Would you make your videos public again if i post a little clip?

 

And maybe think about opening up a personal praxtice thread here.

 

For me it was nearly the same when i showed stuff here.some masters said it hasnt to do anything with qigong/taiji , some were neutral giving advices and a chinese lady congrated me for having found the true secret lost meditation from old daoists 😂

 

I would like to hear more from you.

 

 

[Cleansox]

1 hour ago, beingnature said:

.in my experience fajins that come out of nothing like the ones you do walking ,are only possible if you are in a very special state, there has to be alchemy  going on. 

Can you write more about your thoughts on this? 

 

I used to do IMA so I have some experience of fajing, and I have some experience of alchemy stuff, but I am not sure how you connect them together. 

[Vajra Fist]

Can I just say that I wish Starjumper was still around?

[SirPalomides]

If there were some kind of switch to turn him on and off that would be great.

[beingnature]

I have really not much knowledge its more from experience. For me the "lower" kind of alchemy is about heart fire sinking down to kidney water.and produce steam.when the heart opens this steam gets transformed into qi. When you have more qi , the fajins become sharper. The "higher" kind of alchemy is when prenatal qi enters through the crown or just from everywhere and nowhere. Then the body gets really like supercharged and pumped up with yang qi which makes them even more sharp. It can also feel like they dont even come from the dantian but more from everywhere as if the whole body is the dantien.

I think one has to careful about discriptions i think because the dantien most people in taiji community talk about is just there the real dantiens somehow get build in my understanding.

Can also feel like as if they come from the hands but the body is behind them. And there are a lot of nuances. I think its very unhealthy / dangerous or even impossible to do alchemy practices to produce fajins.that would be the wrong mindset.