Emotions are the path

[Mark Foote]

On 3/5/2023 at 5:29 PM, Maddie said:

 

My understanding of mindfulness of feelings was a reaction to the various input from the sense organs as either pleasant unpleasant or neutral. So I definitely pay attention to emotions in this regards when being mindful of them. They're almost always unpleasant LOL. So for example if anger comes up I observe it and then I see how anger causes suffering and then I make the connection to see through the delusion in the mind that's causing the anger.

 

As far as changes go it's slow and gradual over time but I am not nearly as reactive as I used to be like it takes me a lot to get me angry and then I don't get very angry and then I don't stay angry for example.

 

 

Attention to the pleasant, unpleasant, and neither pleasant nor unpleasant aspect of feeling was a part of Gautama's mindfulness of state of mind, the substance of the contemplation of "dispassion". 

Gautama's description of mindfulness of state of mind was in four parts.   Here are the four:
 

(One) makes up one’s mind:

 

Contemplating impermanence I shall breathe in. Contemplating impermanence I shall breathe out.

 

Contemplating dispassion I shall breathe in. Contemplating dispassion I shall breathe out.

 

Contemplating cessation I shall breathe in. Contemplating cessation I shall breathe out.

 

Contemplating renunciation I shall breathe in. Contemplating renunciation I shall breathe out.

 

 

So, reflection on impermanence, leading to dispassion toward the pleasant, unpleasant, or neither pleasant nor unpleasant aspect of feelings.  Through equanimity toward feelings, the presence of mind that allows the location of attention to be placed freely by the breath, such that the activity of breath follows autonomically from the location of attention. 

 

To sit down and realize cessation through awareness of the movement of breath is the art, IMHO, and after a witness of cessation the renunciation of latent conceits that "I am the doer" is automatic.

What art.  The art of reconciling with one's own nature.
 

Ok, I realize that I'm not addressing emotions like anger in my description of detachment, but rather feelings (painful, pleasant, etc.) connected with the six senses.  Anger in Gautama's schema comes under the hindrances, states that must be dealt with before anything else--there were five:

 

“At such time, prince, as one dwells with heart possessed and overwhelmed by sensual lust, and knows not, sees not in very truth any refuge from sensual lust that has arisen, –this, prince, is the cause of not knowing. of not seeing. Thus not knowing, not seeing (things as they really are) have a condition, a cause.”

 

“Then again, prince, at such time as one dwells with heart possessed by malevolence… by sloth and torpor… by excitement and flurry… by doubt and wavering, and knows not, sees not in very truth any refuge therefrom, –this, prince, is the condition, this is the cause of not knowing, of not seeing. Thus, prince, not knowing and not seeing have a condition, have a cause.”

 

(SN V 127, Vol V pg 108, parenthetical added)

 

 

I have notes about the Pali sermons that I'm drawing from here--from those notes, the story on anger was:

 

“…I know not of any other single thing of such power to cause the arising of malevolence, if not already arisen, or if arisen, to cause its more-becoming and increase, as the repulsive feature (of things).

 

In (one) who pays not systematic attention to the repulsive feature, malevolence, if not already arisen, arises: or, if arisen, it is liable to more-becoming and increase. …I know not of any other single thing of such power to prevent the arising of malevolence, if not already arisen: or, if arisen, to cause its abandonment, as the heart’s release through amity. In (one) who gives systematic attention to amity which releases the heart, malevolence, if not already arisen, arises not: or, if arisen, it is abandoned.”

 

(AN I 3, Vol I pg 2-4)

 

Ok, just citing all that for the record.  Not so easy to deal with emotions connected with past experiences we can't even remember, or present experiences we don't fully understand.  Open to suggestion, on that... 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Mark Foote

[Mark Foote]

1 hour ago, Maddie said:

 

I've also basically become asexual for all intents and purposes. And pretty much any emotion just tends to affect me less than it used to.

 

 

Last night at the bar, a gentleman complained to me that he didn't know what women want (essentially).  Nice guys like himself finish last on the romantic front, he said.

I told him I can do friendship, but that's all I can do, I can't make magic happen.  The magic is totally seductive, makes a person feel like they are better than they are as their solo self, a larger life unfolding somehow.

Relationships, even simple friendships, are pretty much a caution to me.  Still, I understand that it's not entirely up to me, if I know what's good for me.  

[Maddie]

36 minutes ago, Mark Foote said:

Ok, just citing all that for the record.  Not so easy to deal with emotions connected with past experiences we can't even remember, or present experiences we don't fully understand.  Open to suggestion, on that... 

 

Just observing it. They gradually dissipate over time. We unravel the conditioning that way.

[Bindi]

Regarding relationships (and their relevance to spirituality/humanity) - Emotions themselves are seductive in a way, but I am thinking they’re a very unstable way to steer a relationship. Pure intellect/logic won’t steer a relationship either, if anything I think that would be worse. There’s a third way, hazy to me as yet, that is the right way to steer a relationship, in myspeak it’s related to the central channel energies being in charge. I’m not there yet, but getting closer. 
 

My ideal spirituality includes relationships, but ideally they should be conducted in the right way. 

[old3bob]

there are countless contradictions (apparent or actual)  in most spiritual teachings; here are some examples paraphrased from the Bible: "only the pure in heart shall see God", countered by:  "no man(kind) shall see God and live"...

Edited March 6, 2023 by old3bob

[doc benway]

10 hours ago, Mark Foote said:

Not so easy to deal with emotions connected with past experiences we can't even remember, or present experiences we don't fully understand.  Open to suggestion, on that... 

 

 

I can offer one approach.

Do you already have a meditation practice? Are you able to rest the mind and find an inner sense of openness, clarity, and inner support?

[Mark Foote]

2 hours ago, steve said:

 

I can offer one approach.

Do you already have a meditation practice? Are you able to rest the mind and find an inner sense of openness, clarity, and inner support?

 

 

Apech puts forward as a topic of discussion, "emotions are the path".  

Yes, I do; I do have a practice, I do sit, and I do end up just sitting most of the time.  

My take on Apech's topic is that there is a store of information, much of it in the amygdala, that will move me to action before my frontal lobes kick in (thanks, Daniel Goleman, for "Emotional Intelligence").  Likely the same store affects many of my day-to-day decisions, without full realization on my part (a regular Flying Dutchman, on two legs, here).

 

How much is the exploration of these "emotions connected with past experiences we can't even remember, or present experiences we don't fully understand" my work, this time around?  That's the way I understand Apech's topic, and I am guessing based mostly on intuition, a lot.  Maybe I should have phrased my question as, "how does a person find and explore these memories without years of expensive therapy"?    

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, Bindi said:

Regarding relationships (and their relevance to spirituality/humanity) - Emotions themselves are seductive in a way, but I am thinking they’re a very unstable way to steer a relationship. Pure intellect/logic won’t steer a relationship either, if anything I think that would be worse. There’s a third way, hazy to me as yet, that is the right way to steer a relationship, in myspeak it’s related to the central channel energies being in charge. I’m not there yet, but getting closer. 
 

My ideal spirituality includes relationships, but ideally they should be conducted in the right way. 

 

Yes. I see that as the path ( or 'way of' ) Mercury .

 

Sorry if this a boring repeat of what I have written a few times before , but to me , its one of those gems  that, if I do without it , I just end up in the same boat as 'everyone else'  .... urk! no thanks . 

 

Anyway , I see the  'relationship dynamic'  as a triangle;  Venus and Mars are the base line , that is how most relationship dynamics unfold, and yes that can work for many . It can also be the 'age old' dynamic ( or trap ) .... its the typical Old Aeon man / woman  (or 'active passive' ) relationship .... we are conditioned still by many things and they often play out in the unconscious and surface in dynamic situations like relationships .  Mercury is the reconciler , the one with a viewpoint and actions above that base line , the one that sees further and can transmute the other forces. Androgynous and the Magician , one that has access to both heaven and hell and a whole lot of other stuff that can be  realized from study of the relevant  astrological and mythic relationships between those three forces.  Of course, it is based on the  underlying principle of three in everything .

 

For me, I want my relationships to be magical ... if people dont get that I switch terms to 'spiritual' .   If they dont get  that I switch terms to "Our Angels have to like each other ."

 

At the moment I am at the beginning of something rather wonderful and  magical . ...  the casual greeting and departure hugs are getting longer and more 'energetic' ... 'that look' in the eyes , the  'faint fresh flame of the new year flashes, from leaf to flower and flower to fruit"  .       There is a HUGE age difference , but I have learned to not let that stand in the way (after last time .... it seemed to make little difference to us , any difference could be turned into an advantage ... yet again, it would not have worked without my 'mercurial' perspectives and actions  )  a very beautiful, dynamic and graceful person and spirit , very capable , has her own business, just sold property and moved here and has the most wonderful little 4 year old  girl that appears to have fallen in love with me ( as her mother informs me )   ... perhaps it is 'catching ' .
  .... to get one of those hugs and that look  and then when I depart ,  they leave the others and come out and wave and say goodbye again ... again with that look in the eyes ... and although I am internally skipping away  like a 12 year old school boy after his first kiss  ....Here is the trick ... ( and Mercury and Magicians should be good at tricks  ) ...  I  will  maintain ;

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, Mark Foote said:

 

Apech puts forward as a topic of discussion, "emotions are the path".  

Yes, I do; I do have a practice, I do sit, and I do end up just sitting most of the time.  

My take on Apech's topic is that there is a store of information, much of it in the amygdala, that will move me to action before my frontal lobes kick in (thanks, Daniel Goleman, for "Emotional Intelligence").  Likely the same store affects many of my day-to-day decisions, without full realization on my part (a regular Flying Dutchman, on two legs, here).

 

How much is the exploration of these "emotions connected with past experiences we can't even remember, or present experiences we don't fully understand" my work, this time around?  That's the way I understand Apech's topic, and I am guessing based mostly on intuition, a lot.  Maybe I should have phrased my question as, "how does a person find and explore these memories without years of expensive therapy"?    

 

That should be part of the Magician's path  and the meditations and practices on that subject should be part of the curriculum . Indeed in some cases we told its useless to proceed without this knowledge .

 

Of course it must be a good and valid magical path ... just like we see here with  'oriental magics', there can be some negative manifestations .  Systems like those with a valid magical background  and modern psychological / therapeutic  approach are best used for this approach eg. see Israel Regardie .

 

[Mark Foote]

48 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

For me, I want my relationships to be magical ... if people dont get that I switch terms to 'spiritual' .   If they dont get  that I switch terms to "Our Angels have to like each other ."

 

 

Like that!

[stirling]

8 hours ago, Mark Foote said:

Maybe I should have phrased my question as, "how does a person find and explore these memories without years of expensive therapy"?    

 

There is "waking up", and there is "growing up" I often say to my students. The "growing up" is working your way through your emotions and personal karmic obscurations. A path without this piece is definitely doing it the hard way. I would definitely start with "Untethered Soul", by Michael Singer:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Untethered-Soul-Journey-Beyond-Yourself/dp/1572245379/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=untethered+soul+by+michael+singer&qid=1678144989&s=books&sprefix=untethered+soul%2Cstripbooks%2C166&sr=1-1

 

I probably teach this book every few years as new students cycle through. The practices are very simply and incredibly effective. 

 

I find that the Tibetan Buddhist schools have the best "growing up" teaching material, especially the Lojong material. Taking life experiences as the path is a very powerful practice that is completely portable and possible to do ALL the time. My recommendations on that front are:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Great-Path-Awakening-Cultivating-Compassion/dp/1590302141

 

or to keep it Zen, Norman Fischer's excellent, more accessible, but not quite as powerful (to me) book on the topic:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Training-Compassion-Teachings-Practice-Lojong/dp/1611800404

 

If you haven't already, I'd also incorporate Metta and Tonglen practices into your routine. 

 

We are fortunate to to have so many practices to help us.  A good therapist, or even a BUDDHIST therapist (they exist!) can be a great resource too.

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by stirling

[doc benway]

On 3/6/2023 at 10:28 AM, Mark Foote said:

 

Apech puts forward as a topic of discussion, "emotions are the path".  

Yes, I do; I do have a practice, I do sit, and I do end up just sitting most of the time.  

My take on Apech's topic is that there is a store of information, much of it in the amygdala, that will move me to action before my frontal lobes kick in (thanks, Daniel Goleman, for "Emotional Intelligence").  Likely the same store affects many of my day-to-day decisions, without full realization on my part (a regular Flying Dutchman, on two legs, here).

 

How much is the exploration of these "emotions connected with past experiences we can't even remember, or present experiences we don't fully understand" my work, this time around?  That's the way I understand Apech's topic, and I am guessing based mostly on intuition, a lot.  Maybe I should have phrased my question as, "how does a person find and explore these memories without years of expensive therapy"?    

 

So looking at my post, it certainly could have been taken as insulting.

Sorry for that

_/\_

 

Long post below... enter at your own risk

 

Spoiler

"How much is the exploration of these "emotions connected with past experiences we can't even remember, or present experiences we don't fully understand" my work, this time around?"

In a sense I would say it is as much as we have the time and karma to encounter.

That stuff is always there, all the leaves and branches of the tree. 

 

"Maybe I should have phrased my question as, "how does a person find and explore these memories without years of expensive therapy"?"

This is what I was responding to so we're on the same page; and my question was posed because having a stable practice and a sense of "the view," as we call it in my tradition, is an absolute prerequisite. Often we approach the spiritual path with our attention on the leaves and branches - the memories, hopes, fears, patterns, all of mind's contents and actions. How to find everything, uncover it, work with it. The other way is to work with the root, the source of the 3 poisons -  fundamental ignorance. That is done by beginning with resting the mind stably in meditative equipoise, what we call resting in the inner refuge or the nature of mind. One important characteristic is that the observer is not active, you could say it is silent. There is observation occurring but no subject/object dichotomy, simply openness and clarity. This is "the view" essentially. Open awareness not grasping at whatever happens to come up. This needs to be familiar and stable. Then, as Maddie suggests, we work with whatever is loudest or sometimes nothing is particularly loud and we can choose to select something that has some juice, there are an endless number of things we could select. 

 

Step 1 - rest in the nature of your own mind - open and clear, not even observing - hopefully this makes some sense, it's tough to define this verbally. One very succinct way to put it is a classic teaching in Bön dzogchen which I'll clumsily describe. Look at whatever thought arises next for you. Then look back at who is looking. When the observer looks directly at itself something special happens, the observer looks at itself and is momentarily extinguished. In that moment there is clarity, there is openness, it is an unspeakable state. It is not unconscious, it is very clear but completely empty. We rest the attention there. Each time we are drawn into some thought or perception as an observer we gently return to the state of resting the attention in that extinction of the observer. When we get familiar with this way of resting the mind we find it is not empty at all really, just empty of the observer, not obstructed by the subject/object activity. It is actually very full and very alive. This is the view. 

 

Step 2 - while resting in the view, select what you want to work with, better yet go with what selects you, whatever comes up spontaneously. Working with it means opening to it directly, not engaging or judging, not exploring or changing, not describing the experience to oneself, just fully being with the experience. What does it feel like in the body? What thoughts are there, what emotions, hopes, fears come up? What inner story begins to arise? Noticing all that and continue to rest the observer and remain very clear and open. If the clarity and spaciousness are truly there, something else will happen; warmth will arise, a sense of caring, of wanting to help, as if something difficult were happening to a dear friend. This is not conceptual at all, it is an opening of the heart.This is referred to as union of clarity and emptiness, my teacher calls it hosting. Soon whatever the issue was will begin fading because we're not contributing the energy it needs to stay present and active.

 

Then comes the most important part, notice carefully what happens when this activity of the body, speech, and mind has liberated. What is present? It is clear and open. It is nothing in particular and so it is often overlooked as if it is nothing of value. If we rest our attention there we may experience unbounded spaciousness and clarity. And warmth is there and unlimited potential. It's unlimited because it's undefined and unobstructed by the observer. We continue to rest there as long as it remains fresh and unfabricated. This is working with the root because whatever it is we simply cut it off by cutting the misidentification with an observer. The open space and clarity and warmth that are obscured by the one who is practicing, the one who is feeling and thinking, that inner refuge is the opposite of ignorance. Over time, as we do this more and more with everything that comes up, we begin to identify more and more with the openness and clarity rather than the one trying to fix the problem or the one who has a problem. So this is a way to work with anything and everything directly at any time. As we become more stable in this we are creating fewer karmic traces and the resting and opening becomes more effortless and familiar. What needs to come up will do so sooner or later and when it doesn't we're not creating new traces. Some stuff liberates quickly and easily and some much more slowly and stubbornly. Everything in life becomes the path. 

 

So that's one way to work with all of the stuff that is buried and inaccessible

Very simple but not necessarily easy. 

I hope this long post is of some value if you bothered to read it!

 

 

 

 

[doc benway]

1 hour ago, stirling said:

A good therapist, or even a BUDDHIST therapist (they exist!) can be a great resource too.

 

Years ago I looked for a therapist and had the good fortune to stumble across an ACT (Acceptance Commitment Therapy) therapist. ACT has very Eastern roots and was perfectly in accordance with my meditation practice - Daoist at the time. We practice "accepting" what is present in our lives, meaning acknowledging what is really going on at any given moment without fighting with it, denying or suppressing, simply being directly aware without engaging or analyzing. The "commitment" part is going through a process of identifying and committing to acting in accordance with our personal values. The two parts are compliment each other. I found it very supportive and enlightening. I learned a lot about myself and about dealing with challenges. 

[Mark Foote]

1 hour ago, steve said:

 

So looking at my post, it certainly could have been taken as insulting.

 

(I didn't take it as insulting, Steve, I just thought you glossed over the most intriguing part of the topic--a different take on the path, that being our emotional, mostly unconscious, inheritance)

That stuff is always there, all the leaves and branches of the tree.

 

Leaves and branches, like that. 

 

"Maybe I should have phrased my question as, "how does a person find and explore these memories without years of expensive therapy"?"

Thas' a kind of a joke, as I know therapy was not the point of Apech's topic.
 

One important characteristic is that the observer is not active, you could say it is silent. There is observation occurring but no subject/object dichotomy, simply openness and clarity. This is "the view" essentially. Open awareness not grasping at whatever happens to come up. This needs to be familiar and stable. Then, as Maddie suggests, we work with whatever is loudest or sometimes nothing is particularly loud and we can choose to select something that has some juice, there are an endless number of things we could select. 

Yes, though I mostly practice this kind of awareness in response to anger out of a particular (and generally recent) experience, when I practice it.  I think Apech was pointing at something different.

 

... Soon whatever the issue was will begin fading because we're not contributing the energy it needs to stay present and active.

 

At least with regard to anger, my experience is that eventually, a compassionate insight arises, and releases the energy.

I hope this long post is of some value if you bothered to read it!

 

I did read it, Steve, and I appreciate the sincere response.

 

There is something else in my practice, which I've tried to describe recently.  A friend said she couldn't see the applicability of the things I wrote about, with regard to "cleaning cat boxes, cooking, shopping, driving, and bathing".  My response:

 

Gautama pointed out that with that concentration, “determinate thought” in action of the body ceases, in particular volition that affects the movement of inhalation or exhalation ceases.

 

That doesn’t mean that action of the body can’t take place, only that the exercise of will or volition is not involved.  I have many times quoted a remark I heard Zen teacher Kobun Chino Otogawa make at the end of one of his lectures at the San Francisco Zen Center:

 

You know, sometimes zazen gets up and walks around.

 

If a person “takes the attitude of someone who… lets go of both hands and feet” (as Dogen instructed), then perhaps there will come a moment when the hands and feet walk around.  At that moment, there will be new meaning to be had in cleaning cat boxes, cooking, shopping, driving, and bathing, though these experiences might not involve the attitude that advances from the top of a 100-foot pole throughout.

 

Having said that, I have to add that it’s my belief that not every Zen teacher has experienced the zazen that gets up and walks around.  That doesn’t say that they haven’t experienced the cessation of volition in action of the body, or that they are not qualified to teach Zen, but I think they must have a different perspective on the relationship of practice to the actions of everyday life.

 

I'm offering that as a different perspective on the meaning of practice, but it's entirely off-topic as far as emotions as the path.  I'm only barely on board with Apech's assertion that emotions are a part of the path, possibly the whole path in this existence, but I feel that it's an area I could use more education in.  

I'm hoping you can see more of where I'm coming from, on this.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Mark Foote

[Mark Foote]

2 hours ago, stirling said:

 

There is "waking up", and there is "growing up" I often say to my students. The "growing up" is working your way through your emotions and personal karmic obscurations. A path without this piece is definitely doing it the hard way.

 

That seems like a good perspective on the topic!

[doc benway]

47 minutes ago, Mark Foote said:

I'm hoping you can see more of where I'm coming from, on this.

 

Along those lines, once certain of and settled into the view I tried to indicate, we exercise with it. First bringing that quality of attention to virtuous activity (mantra, circumambulating, etc), then to mundane daily activities, even to challenging situations and non-virtuous activity. Ultimately to every experience. In the beginning it needs to be protected like a small candle, then challenged, and eventually it’s said to be like a bonfire only made stronger by everything that it comes into contact with. A beautiful metaphor but not my lived experience I can tell you, not yet…

[Lairg]

15 hours ago, old3bob said:

there are countless contradictions (apparent or actual)  in most spiritual teachings; here are some examples paraphrased from the Bible: "only the pure in heart shall see God", countered by:  "no man(kind) shall see God and live"...

 

Here the very modern word "God" is being used in two meanings.

 

"pure in heart" refers to inner spiritual growth.

 

On the other hand:

 

Exodus 33:11

Thus the Lord used to speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend."

 

Thus the Lord was physical and seen by Moses who related to him as to a humanoid.

 

The Lord threatened death to other humans that saw him.  I suspect acne

 

 

[Mark Foote]

1 hour ago, steve said:

 

Along those lines, once certain of and settled into the view I tried to indicate, we exercise with it. First bringing that quality of attention to virtuous activity (mantra, circumambulating, etc), then to mundane daily activities, even to challenging situations and non-virtuous activity. Ultimately to every experience. In the beginning it needs to be protected like a small candle, then challenged, and eventually it’s said to be like a bonfire only made stronger by everything that it comes into contact with. A beautiful metaphor but not my lived experience I can tell you, not yet…

 

I settle into place, rather than view, but the place I settle into is actually a function of breath.  

Almost the same as what you're doing, just that the candle has to be able to move around, even if it doesn't.  "Not one particle of the body left out", as Gautama phrased it. 

"Laying hold" of the place of attention that allows the autonomic movement of breath even as it shifts from moment to moment is zazen.
 

"Don't ever think that you can sit zazen! Only zazen sits zazen."--Shunryu Suzuki to Blanche Hartman, cuke.com

 

 

Edited March 7, 2023 by Mark Foote

[Bindi]

3 hours ago, steve said:

 

Years ago I looked for a therapist and had the good fortune to stumble across an ACT (Acceptance Commitment Therapy) therapist. ACT has very Eastern roots and was perfectly in accordance with my meditation practice - Daoist at the time. We practice "accepting" what is present in our lives, meaning acknowledging what is really going on at any given moment without fighting with it, denying or suppressing, simply being directly aware without engaging or analyzing. The "commitment" part is going through a process of identifying and committing to acting in accordance with our personal values. The two parts are compliment each other. I found it very supportive and enlightening. I learned a lot about myself and about dealing with challenges. 

To me there is a twofold mundane mind process, consisting of emotional and cognitive strands, that are entangled from issues and ultimately beyond issues needs to become fully complementary and fully engaged. Not analysing or engaging cognitively as in your model leaves half the work undone in your model IMO. Beyond these two is a third process that I don’t know much about yet. 

[C T]

I ascribe to the notion that emotions arise out of misplaced attachment to self. Therefore, the prerogative becomes one of working to disentangle coarse and subtle attachment rather than working on or with emotions, which are all ego-based, hence false. It is impossible to attain liberation working with and from unreal premises, yet its a common enough choice that is made. 

[Lairg]

7 minutes ago, C T said:

I ascribe to the notion that emotions arise out of misplaced attachment to self. 

 

I wonder if mothers have the same view

 

 

[C T]

Just now, Lairg said:

 

I wonder if mothers have the same view

 

 

 

Doesn't make it any less painful. 

[Lairg]

11 minutes ago, C T said:

 

Doesn't make it any less painful. 

 

Is the emotional love of mothers important for the development of children?

 

[C T]

1 hour ago, Lairg said:

 

Is the emotional love of mothers important for the development of children?

 

 

The love spoken of in the holy books... that's the love worthy of aspiration. If mothers' love is the primary contributor to children's development, you'd think this world would see much more sanity and much less neurosis, but reality reflects otherwise. Mothers can be dysfunctional too, and sadly, pass on their karma in that fashion. 

[doc benway]

7 hours ago, Bindi said:

Not analysing or engaging cognitively as in your model leaves half the work undone in your model IMO.

 

Just to be clear, not my model. I worked with it for a few years, very effectively in fact. The method was developed by a fellow named Stephen Hayes.

 

There is cognition involved, I believe it’s considered a variant of CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy). The analysis part is not considered to have much value. Like in many Eastern systems, the idea is the mind can’t fix the problems it is continually creating. The analogy is trying to wash blood from one’s hands with more blood.