Emotions are the path

[manitou]

On 10/3/2020 at 10:40 PM, Michael Sternbach said:

 

 

All these: thought, emotion, body, action - each on their respective level - lend expression to forces that we can indeed think of as the deities or  archetypes that underlie (or stand above!) the structure of the manifested world and that pertain to what is seen as spirit in the metaphysical systems of various cultures. 

 

 

Michael, both you and @Taomeow have tied something together for me that has been a puzzlement (couldn't find her original quote to insert here).   Not having come up an Eastern path, it seemed curious that the metaphysical dynamics of the Buddhist, Daoist, or Hindi religions also contained an aspect of all these deities.  I sort of assumed that maybe these deities came into existence as a sort of folklore aspect of the religion, making them seem sort of pointless at this point in history.

 

But from what you two are saying, it's more that these deities are templates or archetypes that are manifested in representation of a mindset, or a particular quality?

[Taomeow]

51 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

Michael, both you and @Taomeow have tied something together for me that has been a puzzlement (couldn't find her original quote to insert here).   Not having come up an Eastern path, it seemed curious that the metaphysical dynamics of the Buddhist, Daoist, or Hindi religions also contained an aspect of all these deities.  I sort of assumed that maybe these deities came into existence as a sort of folklore aspect of the religion, making them seem sort of pointless at this point in history.

 

But from what you two are saying, it's more that these deities are templates or archetypes that are manifested in representation of a mindset, or a particular quality?

 

Don't know about Michael, but for me, straddling two worlds is habitual, and tolerating ambiguity is an aspect of practice.  Deities can be, indeed, just ideas, metaphors, mindsets...  but simultaneously straight up deities.  They can manifest in our reality as mindsets or qualities only -- or as actual beings, depending on circumstances. 

 

Our habitual dimension, reality, well worn-in and comfortably fitting (like a pair of slippers you put your feet into first thing in the morning) is not be-all end-all though.  In most circumstances and while we are in "ordinary consciousness," "ordinary reality," it seems this way, but it's an illusion. 

 

I have no trouble psychologizing gods, demons, spirits, all sorts of beings our science dismisses as "supernatural" and therefore made- up, obsolete superstitions. (Not that it can answer the question what "natural" is though without changing that answer every 10-15 years.)  Simultaneously I remain aware at all times that by doing so I'm merely catering to the prevalent mythology of our time which takes a condescending view of them (born of self-importance and self-aggrandizing hubris a whole lot of the time) -- as though our own narratives and fables of the human psyche are superior to the ones that went before, since the beginning of time and up to the educational reforms of some 120--150 years ago (and of questionable merit if you look into who installed them and what for.)  Surely I can live in that world, in that modern mythology, on its terms.  I too own that pair of slippers.  But it's not my only place of residence, and not even the main one.     

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, manitou said:

 

 

Michael, both you and @Taomeow have tied something together for me that has been a puzzlement (couldn't find her original quote to insert here).   Not having come up an Eastern path, it seemed curious that the metaphysical dynamics of the Buddhist, Daoist, or Hindi religions also contained an aspect of all these deities.  I sort of assumed that maybe these deities came into existence as a sort of folklore aspect of the religion, making them seem sort of pointless at this point in history.

 

But from what you two are saying, it's more that these deities are templates or archetypes that are manifested in representation of a mindset, or a particular quality?

 

One of the things i liked about my short experience with Voudon  is the range they have in their 'loa'   some seem archetypal , some seem representational of a mind set,  others the old Gods of Africa, some are transformed Christian saints, one a lady that helped  the slaves  last century ( she still wears her hat, gloves , pearls and carries a handbag, as she used to in her life .  Some are primal ; The Great Forest , Simbi la Flambeau (  fire serpent ) , 'Death' ,  etc .

 

As Michael expressed ;  "All these: thought, emotion, body, action - each on their respective level - lend expression to forces that we can indeed think of as the deities '    This really comes out in the ritual, a loa possession is expressed in such thought, emotion, body, action   that pertains to the loa in ritual.  It can be a VERY  emotive dynamic .

 

 

 

[manitou]

49 minutes ago, Nungali said:

As Michael expressed ;  "All these: thought, emotion, body, action - each on their respective level - lend expression to forces that we can indeed think of as the deities '    This really comes out in the ritual, a loa possession is expressed in such thought, emotion, body, action   that pertains to the loa in ritual.  It can be a VERY  emotive dynamic .

 

 

 

I could google it, but I'd rather hear your answer.  Is 'loa' ego?

[Apech]

4 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

I could google it, but I'd rather hear your answer.  Is 'loa' ego?

 

Voodoo deities/spirits.

[Nungali]

1 minute ago, manitou said:

 

 

I could google it, but I'd rather hear your answer.  Is 'loa' ego?

 

I would say no .  One might call them deified concepts  or even deified complexes .

 

( A complex is a core pattern of emotions, memories, perceptions, and wishes in the personal unconscious organized around a common theme )

 

 

 

[manitou]

Wouldn't everything you mentioned in the complex (emotions, memories, etc)  also be a part of egoic identity?

Edited October 6, 2020 by manitou

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, manitou said:

Wouldn't everything you mentioned in the complex (emotions, memories, etc)  also be a part of egoic identity?

 

 

First it depends on one's definition of ego and 'egoic identity' . 

 

Next, Is the ego in the unconscious ?  I am not sure it can penetrate into that realm. The unconscious can penetrate the conscious realm via its media of communication ; symbol and imagery , but I dont know of any reverse process.   A complex is 'in the personal unconscious' .  It is the 'core pattern' of those things that lie in the unconscious .  This is different from the 'flowering' of those core patterns in the consciousness. and that upwelling / influence  that might result in action or even compulsion is also 'unconscious' and need not rely on any image or symbol .... its masked from us until it arrives from  .... somewhere  / out of the blue  .... into consciousness or even physical action without conscious motivation .

 

This is where it gets tricky, both realms interact, thats why I prefer the Exo-psychology model and my  'astro - psychoanalytical' model , one can see these process then in diagram .

 

In any case,  it can seem, in some forms of voodoo that  some  loa are the surfacing of an unconscious complex into an expression in the conscious world , via possession.  It would seem the personal ego is absent in  full possession.   There is no point talking to ' the  person'   in full possession, they are not there (unless they are 'faking it '  )   , you have to talk to the loa  .  This is one of the reasons Dr Van Dusen got success with formerly 'incurable cases'    of  'madness'  ( people who claimed to be and acted like they where possessed ) and 'hallucination' ;  he came up with the innovative approach of not interviewing the patient  but their  ' possessing hallucination' . 

 

In a way , I suppose one  could say  loa    are   like ego , in that ;  a psychoanalytical definition of ego   describes ; " the part of the mind that mediates between the conscious and the unconscious and is responsible for reality testing and a sense of personal identity. " (in full possession that 'sense of personal identity  ' gone )   while a loa   ( which, to be accurate,  is not a deity)    is  an intermediary  between  ' The Bondye'   ( 'God'  )   and the people .

 

 

One could say that in voodoo worship, our unconscious complexes are given conscious expressions / acknowledgement  . -   A sort of 'mental health'  pressure release valve .  A psychological  Saturnalia   ( and like  Saturnalia , can get somewhat     'out  of control' , for a time  .... which may well  be an important part of the process ) .

 

 

 

 

         

Edited October 6, 2020 by Nungali

[dwai]

On 10/5/2020 at 11:20 AM, manitou said:

 

 

Michael, both you and @Taomeow have tied something together for me that has been a puzzlement (couldn't find her original quote to insert here).   Not having come up an Eastern path, it seemed curious that the metaphysical dynamics of the Buddhist, Daoist, or Hindi religions also contained an aspect of all these deities.  I sort of assumed that maybe these deities came into existence as a sort of folklore aspect of the religion, making them seem sort of pointless at this point in history.

 

But from what you two are saying, it's more that these deities are templates or archetypes that are manifested in representation of a mindset, or a particular quality?

Chiming in here, just my two cents worth  

At the transactional level of reality, 

Deities are beings who exist and operate from the causal layer. Yes they are also archetypes, and exemplify certain aspects/characteristics and gravitate towards certain qualities.

 

Sri Aurobindo, a great 19th-20th century Indian sage had some very interesting ideas about deities. 
 

http://niyogibooksindia.com/blog/the-concept-behind-the-hindu-gods-an-analysis-based-on-aurobindos-interpretations-of-the-rig-vedic-gods/

Quote

Now let’s see some of the common double meanings in RV.

Yajna, the sacrificial ritual of RV, is work and the person who does the work is actually the soul or the personality of the person. The gods are the personifications of the elements or traits of the personality or the various strengths in the personality.

Agni symbolizes the divine will, the force or the fire in humanity which initiates any action. Hence, Agni is invoked at the beginning of any yajna. A life without a will or desire to achieve something is like death. Even an animal has to have the will to survive and only then can it search for food – without this fire of will within, it perishes. This will drives us throughout our lives in all our actions. So Agni is that element or strength of our personality which comes into play the moment we’re born.

Ashvins are the twin divine powers whose special function is to direct the life energy in the sense of action and enjoyment. They represent the prana or the life energy which moves and acts and desires and enjoys. The life is full of violent actions – breaking each obstacle that comes in our way, moving continuously towards our destination and enjoying the every single moment. Through our actions we learn many things and become matured, aware, thoughtful and conscious. The Ashvin twins are akin to the twins Castor and Polydeuces (Pollux) of the Graeco-Latin mythology. Like the twin stars Castor and Pollux that protect the sailors in their voyages, save them in storm and shipwrecks, the Ashvins are the powers that carry the Rishis of RV, as in a ship, to the other shore beyond the thoughts, to the state of infinite consciousness.

Indra is the illuminated mentality or the mind power and his horses are the energies of that mentality. He comes impelled by thought and driven by the illumined thinker within – dhiyeshita viprajuta. He comes with the speed and force of the illumined mind power. Indra is that element of our personality which comes into play in the third stage of our life, after Agni’s will and Ashvini’s actions. The experiences of all the actions in our lives arouse the consciousness, the intellect.

Mitra-Varuna represents the Truth Power, the power of discernment and greater consciousness, the power of the perfected, enriched and purified intellect or thoughts. Mitra-Varuna is that element of our personality which comes into play at quite an advanced stage of life when we’re close to infinite consciousness and infinite bliss.

Surya represents the illumination of ritam, the truth, rising upon the mind. Dawn represents the dawning of illumination in human mind.

Soma represents the intoxication of Ananda, the divine delight. Ghritam, the purified butter, is the intellect or thought that is offered in the yajna. The fruits of the offerings are the cow, go, which is light or knowledge or consciousness in the form of knowledge. It’s akin to the Homeric kine of Helios (Sun). Horse is the energy, force or the consciousness in the form of force. Go and ashva, the cow and the horse, represent two companion ideas of Light and Energy, consciousness and force.

Saraswati represents the divine inspiration. Association of river with inspiration is seen in Greek mythology too. River Hippocrene, the fountain of Horse, sprang when the divine horse Pegasus smote the rock with his hoof. The waters of inspiration gushed out. Pegasus, akin to Skt. pajas, means strength and also brightness. Here force is associated with inspiration. The rock is the symbol of formal existence of physical nature. From this gushes out the waters of inspiration which elevates the physical existence to infinite existence, raises the level of consciousness in man.

 

[manitou]

13 hours ago, dwai said:

moving continuously towards our destination and enjoying the every single moment.

 

This seems to be the practice for me.

 

I was brought up not to enjoy.  There was a midwest puritan undercurrent that kept me stifled (until I later rebelled), and almost feeling guilt if I felt too good.  But today, this is my very quest.  To enjoy every moment, regardless of whether the moment appears to be a good one or a bad one.  Because in essence, the I Am is the I Am for all of us.  And the I Am is always "great".  No harm can come to it.   The mindset involved is one where we are in consciousness of our true identity - that consciousness we all share - and, like the sage, no harm will come if in consciousness.

 

VERSION 2:

Or...if something seemingly horrible happens to you, and someone comes up to you and says, 'Oh!  That's horrible!", you can merely answer "Maybe".  

 

 

[Taomeow]

4 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

This seems to be the practice for me.

 

I was brought up not to enjoy.  There was a midwest puritan undercurrent that kept me stifled (until I later rebelled), and almost feeling guilt if I felt too good.  But today, this is my very quest.  To enjoy every moment, regardless of whether the moment appears to be a good one or a bad one.  Because in essence, the I Am is the I Am for all of us.  And the I Am is always "great".  No harm can come to it.   The mindset involved is one where we are in consciousness of our true identity - that consciousness we all share - and, like the sage, no harm will come if in consciousness.

 

VERSION 2:

Or...if something seemingly horrible happens to you, and someone comes up to you and says, 'Oh!  That's horrible!", you can merely answer "Maybe".  

 

 

 

For me it was the opposite -- enforced optimism was practiced in my upbringing, I wasn't supposed to be unhappy or have problems (both were punishable no matter what the cause).  So to reclaim my true feelings, I had to start out by getting rid of that superimposition of mandatory positivity and contentedness.  To make room for my sadness, for heartbreak, for regret, disappointment, pain.  

 

I remember how everyone reacted when I just stopped smiling,  in all the situations where I was expected to.  As though the sky was falling.  Just watching how those who were used to pulling my strings and pushing my buttons were completely at a loss when the buttons and strings stopped working was empowering.  

 

It felt awesome not to smile.  Not to minimize my own feelings by adjusting them to anyone's expectations.  Interestingly, it ultimately gave me much greater control of what I will and will not express, and feelings themselves became a lot more of a conscious choice once the unconscious ones were given citizenship rights in my consciousness.  I learned to trust them.  I don't feel any pressure that's not commensurate with the immediate situation to either "let it all out" or "keep it all in" -- I can choose, without hurting myself in the process, or others.

[manitou]

2 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

It felt awesome not to smile.  Not to minimize my own feelings by adjusting them to anyone's expectations.  Interestingly, it ultimately gave me much greater control of what I will and will not express, and feelings themselves became a lot more of a conscious choice once the unconscious ones were given citizenship rights in my consciousness.  I learned to trust them.  I don't feel any pressure that's not commensurate with the immediate situation to either "let it all out" or "keep it all in" -- I can choose, without hurting myself in the process, or others.

 

 

What a gift this is.  To have grown into our truer self and leaving conditioning behind.  A lifetime's journey, if you ask me.

[Michael Sternbach]

On 5.10.2020 at 6:20 PM, manitou said:

 

 

Michael, both you and @Taomeow have tied something together for me that has been a puzzlement (couldn't find her original quote to insert here).   Not having come up an Eastern path, it seemed curious that the metaphysical dynamics of the Buddhist, Daoist, or Hindi religions also contained an aspect of all these deities.  I sort of assumed that maybe these deities came into existence as a sort of folklore aspect of the religion, making them seem sort of pointless at this point in history.

 

But from what you two are saying, it's more that these deities are templates or archetypes that are manifested in representation of a mindset, or a particular quality?

 

Yes, they are indeed archetypes and templates respectively that are manifested, not so much in representation of, but in form of particular qualities or mindsets.

 

But then, what are the archetypes? The term originated from Platonic philosophy, where it referred to prototypical ideas existing in the Spirit of the World. As such, they are not the templates for the human mind alone, but in fact for the entire universe. Bear in mind that in the metaphysical view, the manifested world is not the primary reality but ever springs forth from the mind of the Divine.

 

Now each time and place has its own view of the archetypes, coloured by specific cultural attributes. The deities of various cultures can be compared to each other, however (as far as it goes, anyway). It deserves mentioning that such is not the result of some jumbled 'New Age' thinking, but a practice already common in ancient times, for example when the Greeks and Egyptians likened their deities to each other (e.g., Hermes, Hephaistos and Athena were essentially seen as other forms of Thoth, Ptah and Neith, to name just a few).

 

To properly understand the doctrine of Archetypes, it is important to remember that according to metaphysical philosophy (ranging from the ancient mystery religions all the way to modern Theosophy), Man represents all of Creation, and that the external ever reflects the internal.

 

As above, so below. As within, so without.

[dwai]

3 hours ago, manitou said:

I was brought up not to enjoy.  There was a midwest puritan undercurrent that kept me stifled (until I later rebelled), and almost feeling guilt if I felt too good.  But today, this is my very quest.  To enjoy every moment, regardless of whether the moment appears to be a good one or a bad one.  Because in essence, the I Am is the I Am for all of us.  And the I Am is always "great".  No harm can come to it.   The mindset involved is one where we are in consciousness of our true identity - that consciousness we all share - and, like the sage, no harm will come if in consciousness

I was raised with mixed sensibilities. Part of me was Indian in the truest sense, another part of me was raised to acknowledge the puritanical ways of the English (colonial hangover) via my convent school education. 

 

At one point, there was a deep recognition of the "Oneness" underlying the multitude of "things" in the world. And suddenly all the rules didn't make sense anymore. Though I must admit, unpleasant experiences are still unpleasant. Pleasant ones are still pleasant. But they do add flavor.

 

One day I had an epiphany -- pain and pleasure together form bliss. How? Just like drinking a glass of coca cola -- the CO2 bubbles sting the tongue -- pain, the sweetness -- pleasure. Together, a little bit of bliss  

Life is like that -- some pain, some pleasure. All the pain and the pleasure of the universe, is the bliss of the divine, when considered from the "big picture" view. From an "under the microscope" view, pain is still pain, pleasure is still pleasure. 

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by dwai

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, manitou said:

 

This seems to be the practice for me.

 

I was brought up not to enjoy.  There was a midwest puritan undercurrent that kept me stifled (until I later rebelled), and almost feeling guilt if I felt too good.  But today, this is my very quest.  To enjoy every moment, regardless of whether the moment appears to be a good one or a bad one.  Because in essence, the I Am is the I Am for all of us.  And the I Am is always "great".  No harm can come to it.   The mindset involved is one where we are in consciousness of our true identity - that consciousness we all share - and, like the sage, no harm will come if in consciousness.

 

VERSION 2:

Or...if something seemingly horrible happens to you, and someone comes up to you and says, 'Oh!  That's horrible!", you can merely answer "Maybe".  

 

 

 

Its a wonderful practice !     In me it has been fuelled by near death experiences  ( sudden or 'drawn out ' ) , that makes one , not only appreciate every day and every breath, but creates a type of  'ecstatic  appreciative awareness ' .  I am glad you found it and released yourself from that crazy mindset of guilt and depression and life denial that , for some INSANE reason , some 'spiritual' people ascribe to .

 

..... poor bastards !

 

What a strange religion , so I got rid of mine and adopted a new one ;

 

 - snippets ;

• Come forth, o children, under the stars, & take your fill of love!
• I am above you and in you. My ecstasy is in yours. My joy is to see your joy.

- now,  there is a deity !   

 

... some people actually   '  fear  God '  ..... wow  !   You would have to have some real guilt trip instilled for that one !  (They also suggest  we should fear their God too    

 

When bad shit happens ?  Well, its never REAL bad , although some seem to think it was  ( but most of them are 'Princesses'  wrapped in cotton wool ) . if I start to doubt , I remember how bad it can be and actually is for some people . Working in a hospital, refugee relocation and with Amnesty International opened my eyes to that !

 

PS .  'Maybe ' can be an excellent answer to a LOT of questions . 

 

[manitou]

4 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

To properly understand the doctrine of Archetypes, it is important to remember that according to metaphysical philosophy (ranging from the ancient mystery religions all the way to modern Theosophy), Man represents all of Creation, and that the external ever reflects the internal.

 

As above, so below. As within, so without.

 

 

Mettafizzical 'R Us.  I get that.  What I have a little trouble understanding with deities, is that it seems like such a dual concept.  That there is something 'other' to be emanated or worshipped.  The archetype certainly explains the concept .  But I note you highlighted IN FORM OF in your post.  Do you think there is actual form (albeit on a different dimension or density) that somehow bridges the gap between the physical and the metaphysical?

[manitou]

10 minutes ago, Nungali said:

PS .  'Maybe ' can be an excellent answer to a LOT of questions . 

 

 

It's the only answer.  Is this a good thing or a bad thing?  Maybe.

[manitou]

On 10/6/2020 at 2:09 PM, Nungali said:

In any case,  it can seem, in some forms of voodoo that  some  loa are the surfacing of an unconscious complex into an expression in the conscious world , via possession.  It would seem the personal ego is absent in  full possession.   There is no point talking to ' the  person'   in full possession, they are not there (unless they are 'faking it '  )   , you have to talk to the loa  .  This is one of the reasons Dr Van Dusen got success with formerly 'incurable cases'    of  'madness'  ( people who claimed to be and acted like they where possessed ) and 'hallucination' ;  he came up with the innovative approach of not interviewing the patient  but their  ' possessing hallucination' . 

 

 

Believe it or not, this is not dissimilar from Christian Science healings.  The 'god within' is always spoken to, directly from the healer to the healee.  It is as though the prior conditioning can be tricked to change from an emanation of sickness to an emanation of wellness.

[Nungali]

7 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

Believe it or not, this is not dissimilar from Christian Science healings.  The 'god within' is always spoken to, directly from the healer to the healee.  It is as though the prior conditioning can be tricked to change from an emanation of sickness to an emanation of wellness.

 

Namaste

[Apech]

2 hours ago, dwai said:

I was raised with mixed sensibilities. Part of me was Indian in the truest sense, another part of me was raised to acknowledge the puritanical ways of the English (colonial hangover) via my convent school education. 

 

At one point, there was a deep recognition of the "Oneness" underlying the multitude of "things" in the world. And suddenly all the rules didn't make sense anymore. Though I must admit, unpleasant experiences are still unpleasant. Pleasant ones are still pleasant. But they do add flavor.

 

One day I had an epiphany -- pain and pleasure together form bliss. How? Just like drinking a glass of coca cola -- the CO2 bubbles sting the tongue -- pain, the sweetness -- pleasure. Together, a little bit of bliss  

Life is like that -- some pain, some pleasure. All the pain and the pleasure of the universe, is the bliss of the divine, when considered from the "big picture" view. From an "under the microscope" view, pain is still pain, pleasure is still pleasure. 

 

 

You're going to call me picky here but if your education was convent school it was catholic and not puritanical (which is hard line protestant) - there is a difference I think.

 

I like the pain/pleasure thing - that's very non-dual

 

 

[Apech]

30 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

Mettafizzical 'R Us.  I get that.  What I have a little trouble understanding with deities, is that it seems like such a dual concept.  That there is something 'other' to be emanated or worshipped.  The archetype certainly explains the concept .  But I note you highlighted IN FORM OF in your post.  Do you think there is actual form (albeit on a different dimension or density) that somehow bridges the gap between the physical and the metaphysical?

 

Right.  I'm sure Michael will answer this but I thought I'd put in my 2 cents worth.

 

We have this problem us Westerners because no matter what our upbringing (mine was English humanist therefore no real religion) our thinking is run through with Judeo-Christian ideas and themes.  Its inescapable I think.  In fact the Christian way of thinking has even infected the eastern systems which we receive.  There's always the feeling of the big mono-God which must lurk behind the divine.  That it is somehow superior to think that there is one true reality rather than a non-dual pluralism.  There's something very different about Abrahamic thinking from any kind of pagan, mystical or shamanism - all of which allow for multiple divine entities and expressions - because they have an idea of the numinous as being real and manifest while Judeo-Christian thinking produces a distant and austere God beyond everything.

 

I'm not expressing my self very well because I've just drunk a bottle of red wine   But I think even terms like archetypes suggests that the entities which are gods are somehow symbolic or abstract and not real.  

 

 

[Apech]

By the way I'm really enjoying this thread and I'm glad I started it - thank you everyone for your contributions so far and please do continue

 

[dwai]

44 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

You're going to call me picky here but if your education was convent school it was catholic and not puritanical (which is hard line protestant) - there is a difference I think.

I thought it might not have been accurate -- for me, puritanical implies something along the lines of "holier than thou", "self-righteous", "racked by guilt". Catholic schools in India tend to gravitate towards those things...  

Quote

 

I like the pain/pleasure thing - that's very non-dual

 

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by dwai

[Apech]

1 minute ago, dwai said:

I thought it might not be accurate -- for me puritanical implies something along the lines of "holier than thou", "self-righteous", "racked by guilt". Catholic schools in India tend to gravitate towards those things...  

 

 

Puritans are hard line Protestants who like to wear black, have no statues or images and are obsessed by hell fire - like the Pilgrim Fathers who went to America.  Catholics like dressing up and have lots of saints ... they are big on guilt tho' as you say.  Their priests are rather fond of boys.  There is nothing weird or fucked up about Christianity

 

 

[manitou]

On 10/5/2020 at 10:44 AM, Taomeow said:

Don't know about Michael, but for me, straddling two worlds is habitual, and tolerating ambiguity is an aspect of practice.  Deities can be, indeed, just ideas, metaphors, mindsets...  but simultaneously straight up deities.  They can manifest in our reality as mindsets or qualities only -- or as actual beings, depending on circumstances. 

 

 

 

 

 

My thinking gets caught up in the fact that there are different levels of manifestation, as far as the body density of an entity would go.   Seeing water as an ocean or a mist, it's all H20.  Perhaps the desire of the heart or mind to visualize such a being (linear time being an illusion) does have an actual presence aside from mind.  Once I took a picture of my husband hiking ahead of me on a trail - and once the film was developed, there were 15 orbs around him.