TDB as an organism

[Taomeow]

I've been reading up on that probably one and only nutritional experiment, of those available to me, that I have never yet performed on myself: dry fasting.  Horrible as it sounds, it appears to have some interesting, albeit highly unorthodox, scientific justifications and some empirical evidence in favor of its benefits, so I decided to educate myself rather than jump to any a priori conclusions.  One of the first thoughts crossing my mind in the course of my initial research was, "I should talk to TDB about it."   And then I had this strange realization that "talk to TDB" is an idea similar to "talk to John" or "talk to Aunt Anna" or "talk to Howard who is struggling to get on top of his diabetes" or "talk to a bunch of friends the next time it becomes possible to see them at a party table... they'll be very unenthusiastic if I bring it up at the very moment they're stuffing their faces but I'm sure they'll come up with some hilarious reactions."

 

But...  "talk to TDB?"  Who is TDB?  It's not a person and not a group assembled around a common indisputable uniting factor like a turkey on the table or a ball in the game everybody's equally interested in watching.  And yet there's these signs that I treat it as a kind of entity, an organism if you will, as an autonomous intelligence of sorts that I somehow can think of talking to about this or that.  

 

What kind of organism?  John can be such an asshole sometimes.  Aunt Anna might interrupt me in mid-sentence and start running her chain of random associations, jumping from subject to subject at a dizzying pace so I can never keep up, nor am interested in keeping up.  Howard will probably sulk and come back with something like, "well, I didn't know you thought I was that fat..." and I'll have to apologize for something that only happened in his head (i.e.me calling him fat, which I never did, rather than trying to involve him in my thought process with potential benefits, which is what I did do.)  And so on.

 

What kind of organism?  A healthy one?  Well, we seldom get to choose entities to talk to based on their health.  This one in particular is not right in the head at least half the time.  A kind one?  Depends.  A smart one?  Sometimes.  A cruel one?  Sometimes.  An indifferent one?  Often enough.  A belligerent raving raging deranged one?  More often than necessary.  An evolving one?  A devolving one?  And so on.  I've known it for 15 years, so it's a habitual one.  A familiar one, somewhat litter box trained, not entirely feral.  

 

What kind of organism did I have in mind when I made a mental note to "talk to TDB?"  A baffling one. It would be less baffling if I was a creature of screens, but I'm not.  I hate the world of screens.  And yet here I am.  What kind of organism am I?.. 

 

[Apech]

Someone dredged up a thread from 2006 today and reading the first few posts reminded me what TDBs used to be like - like a naive child experimenting with things, it made me think how the tone of this place has changed over the years.  Its been wild at times and like a dysfunctional family but now maybe a bit more mature and thoughtful, slightly less obsessive.  As an organism somehow it has the capacity to learn.  God knows I've tried to walk away a few times.  But I keep coming back.  There isn't anywhere - anyone (?) else like TDBs.

 

 

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

Someone dredged up a thread from 2006 today and reading the first few posts reminded me what TDBs used to be like - like a naive child experimenting with things, it made me think how the tone of this place has changed over the years.  Its been wild at times and like a dysfunctional family but now maybe a bit more mature and thoughtful, slightly less obsessive.  As an organism somehow it has the capacity to learn.  God knows I've tried to walk away a few times.  But I keep coming back.  There isn't anywhere - anyone (?) else like TDBs.

 

 

 

Indeed. 

 

In the beginning it was too wild for me -- I think over a year had elapsed between the time I joined and the time I revisited it next.  I remember reading something authored by, who else but ron jeremy (all caps of course in every post) that shocked the hell out of me.  About what was presented as a hilarious prank that today would probably get him quite deservedly arrested (if caught) for harassment, assault and bodily harm.  Something that involved womens' bathrooms and pepper spray.  The boys hooted their happy approval -- serves those bitches right for being women.  I didn't think I'd ever feel like discussing anything taoism or not related in that bathroom   on that forum and clicked on the bookmark just accidentally a year or so later.  No more all-caps.  So I started reading.  Still smelled of boys' bathroom here and there, and of laudanum elsewhere, but I also caught a whiff of something else and followed my nose.

 

What we have today is not the end result either, just a phase...  I hope.  I hope the organism survives and doesn't mutate into something entirely unrecognizable.  Although who knows.  

[doc benway]

TDB is an enigma for me. And also very familiar and predictable. Essentially, it is me. Ideas and attitudes are thrown at me, or thrown at the ethers, and I take it in, I react, I process what I take in, maybe give something back. Or I put something out there, something comes back to me, and I react to that. Ultimately, it’s a way to look at myself in the mirror of all of you. It is quite interesting how much inertia it has for me. It’s palpable sometimes. 

[Earl Grey]

It’s the little puppy that shits on the carpet that you tear your hair out over, but can’t ever hate it.

 

It’s the little kitty that keeps shredding your couch that you somehow feel compelled to still dote over even if it’s causing you  stress by overwhelming you with its cuteness.

 

It’s the bird that repeats the same shit every time, and you wonder who taught it crazy things as you try to teach it to say better things for everyone’s sanity.

A chimera. You nurture it and at times it pisses you off, other times it brings joy. Fickle.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Earl Grey

[moment]

It is indeed a family of sorts and unsorts.

[qofq]

I'm not sure if TDB is anymore here than there.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by qofq

[Geof Nanto]

A slightly edited version of something I wrote a while back on another thread: 

 

As someone who lives a fairly reclusive life, I come here for community to some degree. I like connecting with other people whose spiritual life is foremost. At times I feel the real warmth that comes from genuine connection. And there’s plenty of variety in personalities and perspectives here.  Also, there’s occasionally information I find particularly helpful. 
 
However, the nitty gritty of my experience is in working through difficulty.  I live within a semi-wilderness environment and my communion is mostly silent interaction with nature. That’s the core of my life. I don’t need any shields against intrusive human vibes or to expend energy on projecting an identity. But that in itself can lead to inner weakness. I’ve learnt that I also need meaningful opposition. That’s what I find on Dao Bums. 
 
The forum abounds with heavily defended city dwelling people, sensitive people who have needs for strong psychic shields. There’s so much unexpressed emotion lurking behind the words, so much psychic content to contend with.  Strong ego’s, forceful opinions, powerful identities, hostility both expressed and covert.  You name it, it here in spades. All these attributes help me gain insight into similarities within my own psyche. In particular, it reveals my emotional weaknesses and shows me how fragile my serenity can be. That shows me the specific areas I need to work through in a way that allows my heart to remain open amongst difficulty and opposition. For me, that's achieved by an ongoing alchemical process of enhancing and enriching my ability to feel in an undistorted way through the harmonisation of my innate feeling sensitivity by means of transmuting my emotional vulnerabilities so they become inner pathways into deeper reality. I've found by doing so I naturally enhance my alignment with heart-mind of Dao, with Spirit, with my Buddha nature (or whatever else you might like to call it.)  And that's the only true basis for inner strength. 
 
If a community could ever be perfect then none of us would need to develop inner connection with Spirit, with the Divine. Of course, I appreciate the effort people here, including myself, have made in the past and continue to make to try to maintain some degree of health here. That’s vital. It's in all of our interests. However, it will always be a futile task to try and impose that from the outside using rules. Ultimately the quality of discussion can only ever be a reflection on our collective de, with the most active contributors having the greatest influence.  To my mind, Dao Bums does very well for an online community. Underneath all the surface froth there’s real Spirit at work here. And that can only ever be something that's revealed to us in glimpses.  

 

[Addendum: The new moderation team has definitely reigned in some of the more hostile forum traits I've mentioned.] 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Yueya

[moment]

3 hours ago, Yueya said:

A slightly edited version of something I wrote a while back on another thread: 

 

As someone who lives a fairly reclusive life, I come here for community to some degree. I like connecting with other people whose spiritual life is foremost. At times I feel the real warmth that comes from genuine connection. And there’s plenty of variety in personalities and perspectives here.  Also, there’s occasionally information I find particularly helpful. 
 
However, the nitty gritty of my experience is in working through difficulty.  I live within a semi-wilderness environment and my communion is mostly silent interaction with nature. That’s the core of my life. I don’t need any shields against intrusive human vibes or to expend energy on projecting an identity. But that in itself can lead to inner weakness. I’ve learnt that I also need meaningful opposition. That’s what I find on Dao Bums. 
 
The forum abounds with heavily defended city dwelling people, sensitive people who have needs for strong psychic shields. There’s so much unexpressed emotion lurking behind the words, so much psychic content to contend with.  Strong ego’s, forceful opinions, powerful identities, hostility both expressed and covert.  You name it, it here in spades. All these attributes help me gain insight into similarities within my own psyche. In particular, it reveals my emotional weaknesses and shows me how fragile my serenity can be. That shows me the specific areas I need to work through in a way that allows my heart to remain open amongst difficulty and opposition. For me, that's achieved by an ongoing alchemical process of enhancing and enriching my ability to feel in an undistorted way through the harmonisation of my innate feeling sensitivity by means of transmuting my emotional vulnerabilities so they become inner pathways into deeper reality. I've found by doing so I naturally enhance my alignment with heart-mind of Dao, with Spirit, with my Buddha nature (or whatever else you might like to call it.)  And that's the only true basis for inner strength. 
 
If a community could ever be perfect then none of us would need to develop inner connection with Spirit, with the Divine. Of course, I appreciate the effort people here, including myself, have made in the past and continue to make to try to maintain some degree of health here. That’s vital. It's in all of our interests. However, it will always be a futile task to try and impose that from the outside using rules. Ultimately the quality of discussion can only ever be a reflection on our collective de, with the most active contributors having the greatest influence.  To my mind, Dao Bums does very well for an online community. Underneath all the surface froth there’s real Spirit at work here. And that can only ever be something that's revealed to us in glimpses.  

 

[Addendum: The new moderation team has definitely reigned in some of the more hostile forum traits I've mentioned.] 

 

 

 

Excellent!

Edited September 18, 2020 by moment

[RobB]

You're the only people I know who are into this stuff. You're a bit odd, but I like you.

[idiot_stimpy]

Yes The Tao Bums has its own Egregore.

 

Quote

Egregore (also spelled egregor; from French égrégore, from Ancient Greek egrḗgoros, meaning 'wakeful') is an occult concept representing a distinct non-physical entity that arises from a collective group of people.

 

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, idiot_stimpy said:

Yes The Tao Bums has its own Egregore.

 

 

 

Or a tulpa?

 

"Tulpa is a concept in mysticism and the paranormal of a being or object which is created through spiritual or mental powers. It was adapted by 20th-century theosophists from Tibetan sprul-pa (Tibetan: སྤྲུལ་པ་, Wylie: sprulpa) which means "emanation" or "manifestation".

[doc benway]

1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

 

Or a tulpa?

 

"Tulpa is a concept in mysticism and the paranormal of a being or object which is created through spiritual or mental powers. It was adapted by 20th-century theosophists from Tibetan sprul-pa (Tibetan: སྤྲུལ་པ་, Wylie: sprulpa) which means "emanation" or "manifestation".

 

It’s related to the Nirmanakaya (Sanskrit) which is sprul-sku (pronounced ‘trul-ku) in Tibetan.

[Taomeow]

1 minute ago, steve said:

 

It’s related to the Nirmanakaya (Sanskrit) which is sprul-sku (pronounced ‘trul-ku) in Tibetan.

 

Thank you.  I only know about tulpas from the account of Alexandra David-Neel who encountered a few, learned how to make them, created one and subsequently lost control of it -- the tulpa started gaining independence, evolving, and not in the good direction.  She then decided to dismantle it, and found the task very difficult.  Took her six months.  

[manitou]

I've been here since 2008.  At that time my POV was predominately shamanic, as my husband and I were deeply into Castaneda.  But what I've found here on TDB's is that there are many paths represented here, but they all seem to end up at the I Am consciousness (known by other words in other traditions).  It seems to be a fusion of the metaphysics from all the traditions, which end up in a place that we can all recognize.  I think it's not too difficult to reach into each other traditions and recognize the dynamic that we may call something else - but in essence is the same thing.

 

I have noticed that the egregore has heightened over the years.  Maybe it's just my own development, seeing through my own particular eyes.  But it seems to me that some of the Bums now are soaring.    I think that our discussions, although coming from different origins, are exceptional because of the different directions they come from.  I see them all meeting in metaphysics.  I see that we have all brought each other up over the years.  We have awakened each other - or at least, you have awakened me.  And what I know today is that we are all the I Am.

 

And I do think about you all during the day.  I'm not a highly social person either - and maybe that's why us hermits treasure this place.  But many times I have realized something - maybe on a walk, or shopping - and my first thought will be 'I need to tell the Bums about this'.

 

As to hoping TDB's doesn't degenerate into something else?  I think as long as there are mature ones who are solid in their understandings, it will always serve as an anchor.  Other things may come and go, but the base will be there.

[doc benway]

1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

 

Thank you.  I only know about tulpas from the account of Alexandra David-Neel who encountered a few, learned how to make them, created one and subsequently lost control of it -- the tulpa started gaining independence, evolving, and not in the good direction.  She then decided to dismantle it, and found the task very difficult.  Took her six months.  

I’m reading one of her books now.

She was quite a character!

[manitou]

Can't wait to get to that part!  I did get the Secret Oral Teachings  - I've just read a few pages.  Yes, Steve - like you said before - her words carry such punch.  I would think that she was initially underestimated by many in her travels in India and Tibet.  That must have been fun to watch.

 

That whole group of metaphysicians who sat in the middle of the mystical hub where all paths meet again.  It's the Dao returning to itself.  The action of the Dao is reversion (Yutang).  (I just had a bowl of hay and I'm pretty sure my sativa-laden brain has this figured out once and for all.).

 

A self-realized metaphysical person will find their way to that hub and are capable of communicating with the metaphysical aspect of any spiritual path.  The most important thing is for us to know, as many minutes as we can during the day - who we really are.  And that the same Are inside me is the same Are that's inside you.  that's why arguments are so silly - like one tentacle of an octopus fighting with the tentacle next to him.  

 

And yes, that was gender specific.

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by manitou

[Nintendao]

18 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

Indeed. 

 

In the beginning it was too wild for me -- I think over a year had elapsed between the time I joined and the time I revisited it next.  I remember reading something authored by, who else but ron jeremy (all caps of course in every post) that shocked the hell out of me.  About what was presented as a hilarious prank that today would probably get him quite deservedly arrested (if caught) for harassment, assault and bodily harm.  Something that involved womens' bathrooms and pepper spray.  The boys hooted their happy approval -- serves those bitches right for being women.  I didn't think I'd ever feel like discussing anything taoism or not related in that bathroom   on that forum and clicked on the bookmark just accidentally a year or so later.  No more all-caps.  So I started reading.  Still smelled of boys' bathroom here and there, and of laudanum elsewhere, but I also caught a whiff of something else and followed my nose.

 

What we have today is not the end result either, just a phase...  I hope.  I hope the organism survives and doesn't mutate into something entirely unrecognizable.  Although who knows.  

 

Oof, so you were fortunate enough to have witnessed the Ron Jeremy era first hand, eh? I still think about him every single time i end up wanting to drink my own urine 🤷

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Nintendao said:

 

Oof, so you were fortunate enough to have witnessed the Ron Jeremy era first hand, eh? I still think about him every single time i end up wanting to drink my own urine 🤷

 

 

I recall RON JEREMY (in caps) ... but my earliest memory is reading a post by Drew Hempel which was so tangential to the thread topic that I posted a 'eh?' or 'wtf?' and Yoda answered saying I shouldn't expect Drew to stick to the subject.  Some things never change.  I recall Stigweard (who became a bit weird), Yoda - the nicest guy in the universe, Mal, Cat and a lot of KAP and Kunlun stuff in those days.  I guess even those who are no longer around have added to the Tulpa.