Mona Lisa mark under lip

[welkin]

The Mona Lisa bares a line mark under her lower lip that looks like a scar. Theorists and researchers believe it is a scar create from a blow to the mouth possibly explaining her smile (i don't believe that). A few months ago I was led to the smile, ultimately being able to find the mark using a big image that happened to be on wikipedia. I have that same mark or birthmark, which seems i was born with.

 

I recently contacted Martin Kemp, possibly the most renowned researcher on Da Vinci's paintings. He dismissed any significance of the mark stating that Da Vinci wouldn't paint that imperfection, and was most likely caused by accidents down the line. I don't believe that, because that line is coincidentally shown on the Virgin Mary in that same spot in the Annunciation painting. I have also found that mark in other paintings but on different areas since.

 

Whether or not i have any past life connection to any of it, i still don't know. But it seems i was led to discover something in connection to da vinci and his paintings. And it seems I'm able to decipher many things from the paintings, even if only little by little. There is of course much more info that i've derived from all the research and deciphering, but at the end of the day they mean nothing until further truths are learned. John the Baptist is a very important figure here, mona lisa possibly representing him. The knight's templars seemed to have believed John to be the true Messiah over Jesus, and Da Vinci may have been connected to them.

 

 

The only reason I believe i have connection to this is because i was led to find that mark. I'm not sure why, but i got insight into egypt and tutankhamun.

 

If there's any truth to it, there's probably no one who would better understand that connection and the reasons than myself. That being said, do any of you have any insight into the purpose of discovering these coincidences. The automatic answer from mostly anyone would be to not make much of it. How can I not though?

 

I've also considered the idea that spirit may have set up these premises for me, with no real connection to any of it, but for the purpose of directing me in a certain direction. But there's just so many other coincidences that it becomes hard to ignore just how many connections I have. things such as dreams, hearing specific messages, birthdate, birth marks, perspectives, tendencies, habits, natural abilities, etc.

 

Is there any more i can do to find truth? I feel burdened since birth

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by welkin

[Cleansox]

Well, you do have two basic options:

 

1) You are important. 

2) You have an innate need to feel important. 

 

Both options have a high explanatory value for what you are posting, and time will tell which will manifest. 

[welkin]

2 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

Well, you do have two basic options:

 

1) You are important. 

2) You have an innate need to feel important. 

 

Both options have a high explanatory value for what you are posting, and time will tell which will manifest. 

 

100% agree.

 

I've let go of it multiple times, and only go back to that area of interest when guided there. It seems that it is more about timing than anything at this point.

 

[freeform]

1 hour ago, welkin said:

guided there

Guided there by whom or what?

[welkin]

1 hour ago, freeform said:

Guided there by whom or what?

 

Intuition. Mainly through a stream of insight that happens for a short period of time, then connections being made. And a message through thought coming in with direction on what to look for.

 

I've considered the possibility of something negative creating that direction. Though are you insinuating something about it?

Edited September 18, 2020 by welkin

[freeform]

59 minutes ago, welkin said:

I've considered the possibility of something negative creating that direction.

Oh no - not insinuating something like that.

 

Just that ‘intuition’ - more often than not is just a projection of your subconscious. 
 

Meaning that it’s likely your subconscious drives, preferences and acquired identifications guiding you. 
 

Generally it’s best not to take this sort of guidance too seriously. Or use it as an insight into yourself rather than an insight into ‘truth’ or ‘reality’.

[freeform]

What I believe @Cleansox is alluding to - is that your subconscious self is perhaps trying to make your ‘self’ seem important. This is generally what the self tries to do.

[welkin]

33 minutes ago, freeform said:

Oh no - not insinuating something like that.

 

Just that ‘intuition’ - more often than not is just a projection of your subconscious. 
 

Meaning that it’s likely your subconscious drives, preferences and acquired identifications guiding you. 
 

Generally it’s best not to take this sort of guidance too seriously. Or use it as an insight into yourself rather than an insight into ‘truth’ or ‘reality’.

 

'More often than not' and 'generally'. You don't think that advice poses an equal amount of danger as the very danger the advice is trying to avoid from happening? What if the person falls in the category of non general and the not often. What's the repercussion? And that's why i don't like to ask these types of things, because unless the other person has experienced anything similar, their automatic thought response is, 'oh this person is really just trying to feel special, by believing they don't fall in the general category.'

 

I feel like what i've described above is more than just simple coincidence. there's factual meat behind it. It's not just some delusion that someone thinks of in their had that has no physical evidence behind it. the connection of both the physical evidence and intuition to look in that exact spots from practically no prior thought of it, is what makes the experience valid to at the very least explore. This isn't me arguing, this is me genuinely trying to be reasonable.

 

By nature the guidance forces one to look into oneself. And it's only by looking into oneself that further truths are found.

 

There's not much one can derive from it solely at a grounded daily life level. It's only through the combination of self work and exploring it's actual meaning that answers come.

 

How would one gain insight into oneself without the further exploration of the evidence that one finds? Not to mention the evidence found is connected to some of the most obscure mysteries ever created.

 

[freeform]

31 minutes ago, welkin said:

their automatic thought response is, 'oh this person is really just trying to feel special

Well this is true - simply because everyone’s ‘self’ tries to become significant. That’s just what it does.

 

It does that on the micro level as well as the macro. On the micro level it creates a moment by moment distortion of ‘me-not me’. This is the start of feeling special...

 

You're not special for having an ego that wants to feel special 😄

 

It is true that sometimes intuition manages to reach beyond the self to something deeper and less personal. But this is exceptionally rare - much rarer than people like to think.

And then, even if it does reach a certain objective truth, it has to drag it through the layers of distortion and identification for it to be conscious for you.
 

So however you look at it, whether your intuition is sampling actual truth, or simply dipping into your unconscious desires and attachments - it’s always distorted in some way.

 

That’s why the advice is to not treat your thoughts and feelings as particularly important.

 

31 minutes ago, welkin said:

further exploration of the evidence that one finds?

however you try to avoid it, you’ll always explore down a path filled with some level of delusion and distortion.

 

Thats why all the spiritual practices urge practitioners not to follow their thoughts or any manifestations and movements of mind - but to focus on their practices instead.

[neti neti]

In many instances, the conditions surrounding one's self-deception inevitably begets truth.

 

There are many truths in this world.

 

John 19

26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!

27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

[neti neti]

[Paradoxal]

It is best to see the signs, acknowledge that you see the signs, and not give too much thought on what the signs actually mean. If they are not specific, then you are not meant to know. If you are not meant to know, and you attempt to chase that knowledge anyway, you will end up falling into delusion. 

 

Sometimes, the signs are simply there to show you that there is something more than what you know, and to start you on your journey towards understanding more. Look not at the finger, but rather at the moon it is pointing to.

[Cleansox]

We are constructed to search, for a gatheterer and hunter going into search mode gives the brain reward. It's called behavioural activation in psychology, and it is rather potent. 

 

Looking for clues means I will identify more similar things as clues, and acknowledging that I have seen them gives them value which increases the reward. 

 

Sometimes, this is useful. 

Sometimes, this just winds people up. 

[dwai]

8 hours ago, welkin said:

Is there any more i can do to find truth? I feel burdened since birth

Find out from where does that feeling of being burdened arise. 

[welkin]

4 hours ago, Paradoxal said:

It is best to see the signs, acknowledge that you see the signs, and not give too much thought on what the signs actually mean. If they are not specific, then you are not meant to know. If you are not meant to know, and you attempt to chase that knowledge anyway, you will end up falling into delusion. 

 

Sometimes, the signs are simply there to show you that there is something more than what you know, and to start you on your journey towards understanding more. Look not at the finger, but rather at the moon it is pointing to.

 

Define specific

[welkin]

4 hours ago, dwai said:

Find out from where does that feeling of being burdened arise. 

 

Already have. And only part that keeps the burden on is that I'm not willing to accept what currently exists. But is that not the requirement for change to occur in the first place? Otherwise anyone who created change or moved the needle, wouldn't have. Do you agree that the none acceptance of the status quo a requirement for change? Do you agree that burden can also be defined as purpose? I'm only saying, because the most probable response to what i said would've been let things be. 

Edited September 18, 2020 by welkin

[dwai]

15 minutes ago, welkin said:

 

Already have. And only part that keeps the burden on is that I'm not willing to accept what currently exists.

Try to find out who is not willing to accept what currently exists.

15 minutes ago, welkin said:

But is that not the requirement for change to occur in the first place? Otherwise anyone who created change or moved the needle, wouldn't have. Do you agree that the none acceptance of the status quo a requirement for change? Do you agree that burden can also be defined as purpose? I'm only saying, because the most probably response to what i said would've been let things be. 

Changes will continue to occur whether we want it or not. The only option we have is to accept the change and let it be, or work towards an outcome that is more conducive for us.

 

I like looking at "burden" as a purpose. I've seen that everything that we face in our life is somehow or another of our own making (either in the material realm or at a higher spiritual plane). So, if we look at the thing that is burdening us as a purpose to fulfill, that may be a worthwhile endeavor. 

[Paradoxal]

1 hour ago, welkin said:

Define specific

 

As I trust that you are capable enough of googling a word definition, I will instead give a situational example. If a spirit appears to you in a vision and tells you "If you go to (street name) at (time and day), you will die there.", that is considered specific. If a spirit appears to you and tells you "Tread carefully; a storm is coming. Weather the storm and all will be well.", that would be considered not specific. The first message tells you exactly what will happen if you follow a specific path, whereas the second message gives a suggestion of best practices with vague wording. In my experience, a vast majority of omens and signs will be vague, and will only become clear after the events that they hint at transpire. The same can be said of personal body marks and/or qualities linked to past lives. Yes, body features can be linked to certain things spiritually, including past lives or personality types, but it will not be clear what exactly is truly linked with what until you have reached a level of understanding and spiritual awareness that far surpasses the need for such signs. You will be left wandering and wondering about the correct answer, while neglecting the most effective spiritual growth practices and potentially devolving due to your eternal quest for information on the past.

 

It is best to see these things as a curiosity, rather than a life's work.

[welkin]

8 minutes ago, Paradoxal said:

 

As I trust that you are capable enough of googling a word definition, I will instead give a situational example. If a spirit appears to you in a vision and tells you "If you go to (street name) at (time and day), you will die there.", that is considered specific. If a spirit appears to you and tells you "Tread carefully; a storm is coming. Weather the storm and all will be well.", that would be considered not specific. The first message tells you exactly what will happen if you follow a specific path, whereas the second message gives a suggestion of best practices with vague wording. In my experience, a vast majority of omens and signs will be vague, and will only become clear after the events that they hint at transpire. The same can be said of personal body marks and/or qualities linked to past lives. Yes, body features can be linked to certain things spiritually, including past lives or personality types, but it will not be clear what exactly is truly linked with what until you have reached a level of understanding and spiritual awareness that far surpasses the need for such signs. You will be left wandering and wondering about the correct answer, while neglecting the most effective spiritual growth practices and potentially devolving due to your eternal quest for information on the past.

 

It is best to see these things as a curiosity, rather than a life's work.

 

That's why i said define it. I didn't only mention a birthmark. I mentioned i knew exactly where to look on a painting that was painted more than 500 years ago. Which contains the exact mark. So that's not specific for you?

Edited September 18, 2020 by welkin

[thelerner]

14 hours ago, welkin said:

Is there any more i can do to find truth? I feel burdened since birth

 

As far as I can figure there are zero ways to definitively find out about Mona Lisa's lower lip.  It will all be speculation.  Go back 540 some years and ask Da Vinci, in all honesty he'd say 'I painted that 10 years ago.  You're asking her lower lip.  How the heck should I remember." 

 

Here's the errata I know about it.  A. It's much smaller then people expect (I saw it).  B. It's very famous because in the early 1900's (1911) it was infamously stolen for a few years (2).  Its great renown is due to as much to that theft as the art. 

[Paradoxal]

9 minutes ago, welkin said:

So that's not specific for you?

Not specific enough to warrant the kind of investigation you are attempting. 

[welkin]

8 minutes ago, Paradoxal said:

Not specific enough to warrant the kind of investigation you are attempting. 

 

First off, that's definitely an opinion. not a fact.

 

And you believe that's how spirit or guiding works? You believe you are flat our given answers. That couldn't be further from the truth. I wonder if you speak from actual experience or only what you hear. If anything, a level of vagueness is always given in order for one to wonder and explore. Otherwise what would be the point

Edited September 18, 2020 by welkin

[Paradoxal]

2 minutes ago, welkin said:

And you believe that's how spirit or guiding works? You believe you are flat our given answers. That couldn't be further from the truth. I wonder if you speak from actual experience or only what you hear. If anything a level of vagueness is always given in order for one to wonder and explore. Otherwise what would be the point

In most cases, yes, it is given vaguely. However, there are some cases where the exact knowledge is given. This is from my personal experience, as my spiritual journey started with a similar question to yours. It has since been answered in exact terms, but it was not answered while I was searching for an answer, rather, it was answered after I completely gave up on finding a reliable answer. 

[shunka]

29 minutes ago, Paradoxal said:

 

As I trust that you are capable enough of googling a word definition, I will instead give a situational example. If a spirit appears to you in a vision and tells you "If you go to (street name) at (time and day), you will die there.", that is considered specific. If a spirit appears to you and tells you "Tread carefully; a storm is coming. Weather the storm and all will be well.", that would be considered not specific. The first message tells you exactly what will happen if you follow a specific path, whereas the second message gives a suggestion of best practices with vague wording. In my experience, a vast majority of omens and signs will be vague, and will only become clear after the events that they hint at transpire. The same can be said of personal body marks and/or qualities linked to past lives. Yes, body features can be linked to certain things spiritually, including past lives or personality types, but it will not be clear what exactly is truly linked with what until you have reached a level of understanding and spiritual awareness that far surpasses the need for such signs. You will be left wandering and wondering about the correct answer, while neglecting the most effective spiritual growth practices and potentially devolving due to your eternal quest for information on the past.

 

It is best to see these things as a curiosity, rather than a life's work.

 

Excellent advice.

 

If I may add a bit more -

I have been taught repeatedly from different teachers:

- one must be grounded, centered. stay grounded, centered

- when practicing one must protect oneself not just from distractions and temptations, but also from "attacks"

         whether direct or incidious

- question, validate, and confirm the source ( spirit, self, or whatever).

- then question the relevance of said "insight" .

 

walk in beauty

shunka

 

 

[welkin]

2 minutes ago, Paradoxal said:

In most cases, yes, it is given vaguely. However, there are some cases where the exact knowledge is given. This is from my personal experience, as my spiritual journey started with a similar question to yours. It has since been answered in exact terms, but it was not answered while I was searching for an answer, rather, it was answered after I completely gave up on finding a reliable answer. 

 

i agree with you on that. i got to that same conclusion myself multiple times.

 

What was that question, and what is the answer? Otherwise, how can we really compare experiences.