The Art of Song 鬆

[anshino23]

After reading through Nathan Brine's wonderful book (The Taoist Alchemy of Wang Liping, vol. 1) depicting the practices and overall line of development within the Dragon Gate sect, Nathan puts out a wonderful reminder. To truly build the foundation for neidan, one needs to learn how to relax and in particular learn the art of Song 鬆 . 

 

In WLP's lineage the art of Song is explored through methods such as pore breathing, body squeeze and the nine basic foundational techniques. From Nathan, I can understand there is a big difference between Song and flexibility. One can be completely flexible, yet not be Song 鬆. This is important to remember, I feel. 

I personally have been exploring Song through the practice of "anchoring the breath" as described by Damo Mitchell in his online Microcosmic Orbit course along with some of the practical teachings (pore breathing,  from Wang Liping (viz. Nathan Brine). I also try to incorporate the principles into my standing work, though this is proving more difficult than I thought as it usually ends up with me spiralling into sponteanous postures rather than sinking the Qi and rooting and anchoring more deeply. 

 

I thought this would be a nice topic to explore together. I am sure it has been mentioned before, but it could be nice to have a thread directly dedicated to this aspect of internal training. So, what methods or ways have or are you working on Song or sinking in your practice? What does it feel like when it's working for you -- how about when it's not? What is important to keep in mind when learning this process? 

Edited October 21, 2020 by anshino23

[Sketch]

I've mentioned Scott Meredith' s 5g Tai Chi elsewhere...the chapter about "the secret of sink" made a huge impact on my practice. 

 

There's a sense of lowering from the bottom surfaces; think about the bottom of your shoulders, your armpits and the inner surfaces of your upper arms, and the side surface of your upper rib cage. 

 

With an awareness of this area, gently, continuously generate a slight feeling of sinking or dropping it. He uses the image of a flying squirrel which somehow helped. 

 

If I'm even approaching the right question here... I'm more enthusiastic than expert in my practices. 

 

[freeform]

10 hours ago, anshino23 said:

What does it feel like when it's working for you

 

[Sketch]

Like streamers of stress running downward. From my arms, shoulders, scalp, neck, the back of my head, my face...

In the wake of which, over time, there's been a feeling of tissue "shrinking" from the surface - and spaces opening up from within.

[freeform]

10 hours ago, anshino23 said:

Song or sinking

 

Slightly different things... Song is a key part of sinking - but it's more than sinking (you can Song upwards too for example)... It's more like release - but it's a release into expansion/ gentle stretch not a release into floppy flaccidity...

 

The flower above is a perfect visual representation of what song feels like to me...

 

Whereas relaxation is more like:

I find that most people confuse relaxing with song...

Edited October 21, 2020 by freeform

[dwai]

17 hours ago, anshino23 said:

So, what methods or ways have or are you working on Song or sinking in your practice? What does it feel like when it's working for you -- how about when it's not? What is important to keep in mind when learning this process? 

For me, the step is just standing and sinking. When I first started, I'd stand and try too hard -- so all that would happen is I'd get tired. 

 

But then, I slowly learned to be patient, and just observe what is happening. When the alignments are done correctly and the mind is gently resting on the lower dantien/lower abdomen region -- a pouring sensation starts, going towards the lower dantien. There is the pouring sensation, as it starts filling the lower abdominal space. For me it started with the sensation of a mass of energy congealing in that area, slowly getting more focused - from the size of a softball to the size of a golf ball. Now it is a point within a golf ball. 

 

After a while, the sinking sensation becomes a filling sensation -- a pressure starts building throughout the body like my fascia is expanding. It feels like I'm a balloon being inflated all over. Eventually, the filling/expansion goes beyond the physical body -- several feet in all directions -- a field, like that of a magnet -- but a spherical field, which is hollow in the center...like there is an empty tube through the middle of the sphere. And there is constant flow happening. 

 

This can be then combined with other "forms"  -- I use the taijiquan forms -- ward-off, rollback, press, push, etc. The movements are of the field itself, not the body per se. 

[Creation]

A worthwhile line of inquiry!

 

While I don't yet know what song is, I know three things it is not by trying them all for some time: intending energy to go downward, sinking the body downward physically (particularly, doing so without understanding how to use the kua) , and relaxing to the point of being limp.  All of these will create imbalances and disharmony if practiced diligently.

 

The slogan that Damo Mitchell uses to explain how to train song that sticks in my mind is "bones up,  flesh down."  The bones float in the matrix of the connective tissue and don't particularly move downward, while the connective tissue is released off the bone downward under the action of gravity.  This creates a feeling of stretch in the body's soft tissues.  I think I have felt this a little, but not enough to speak about it with any confidence or authority.

 

On 10/21/2020 at 7:07 AM, Sketch said:

There's a sense of lowering from the bottom surfaces; think about the bottom of your shoulders, your armpits and the inner surfaces of your upper arms, and the side surface of your upper rib cage. 

 

With an awareness of this area, gently, continuously generate a slight feeling of sinking or dropping it. He uses the image of a flying squirrel which somehow helped. 

I'm always looking for new ways to communicate to my nervous system just what exactly I'm intending.  This imagery is helpful, thanks.

[Rara]

On 22/10/2020 at 4:16 AM, dwai said:

 

This can be then combined with other "forms"  -- I use the taijiquan forms -- ward-off, rollback, press, push, etc. The movements are of the field itself, not the body per se. 

 

Yes, I work with this in simple standing, occasionally in horse or single-whip and when rolled into forms, thing just "go" 😁

[Creation]

On 10/21/2020 at 4:19 AM, anshino23 said:

I personally have been exploring Song through the practice of "anchoring the breath" as described by Damo Mitchell in his online Microcosmic Orbit course

I personally think of this more as a ting cultivation practice.  Song and ting go together of course, see this fantastic post of freeform's that was particularly formative for my understanding:

 

On 8/19/2019 at 5:26 AM, freeform said:

Good question. Sung is of primary importance in all of Daoist internal training.

 

The key is to first understand sung... it's releasing, but not a floppy sort of release... It's an 'active' release... it has an alive, springy feel to it - not soft and floppy. Think of a flower bud tightly compacted... as it releases, it actually opens up and expands outward - the petals are sung - they're not contracted, they're relaxed, springy, alive and they're not floppy like when they wilt.

 

The next thing to understand is that there is always more sung available... You release, sink and as that opens your body a little, another layer of sung makes itself available. It never stops.

 

Standing is a good way to train sung, but there's definitely a glass ceiling to it. as Miffy says, you need to move too. In fact, in the beginning, you should move more than stand.

 

As Ride says, you need to release into the correct structure. If you just sung, without having the correct structure, you'll just relax into your habitual posture. You probably know this already. But it's important to always remind yourself of the correct posture.

 

When standing, Ting and Sung work together. Ting is the 'scanning' you're talking about... but this also needs to be studied... Ting means listen... which is a passive sense - scanning suggests 'looking for' which is active... Ting, once it's developed in quality will have an intensity 'dial' to it... When you ting through a correct structure, it will systematically engage the 'soft tissues' (not muscles)... this will connect your body together. Then you sung into that connection... the expansion as a result of sung will slightly loosen your connection, so your ting must go deeper, re-establish the connection - then you sung that... then you ting that in turn... and so on

 

The intensity of ting is important to get right - too intense and you'll cause too much 'activation' - too gentle and you'll not cause enough activation...

 

So as you can see it's a very in-depth study.

[freeform]

22 hours ago, Creation said:

Song and ting go together of course

Yeah in Neigong they tend to form one part of a whole - they definitely work together and they can’t work apart.

 

I really like the flower visual because it really does feel like that sort of unfurling into aliveness... like releasing anything that keeps vitality and aliveness from filling and expanding. Whereas relaxing feels like reducing vitality and aliveness until you melt into a relaxed puddle.

 

Without Ting however, it’s not possible to Song... Its like you can’t let go what you can’t find... and you’ll find more to let go as you release layer by layer.

That’s why Ting and Song sort of leapfrog each other.

 

For muscles to fall off the bone, we need both Ting and Sung. And it’s often quite uncomfortable when you get it right. I remember at first I would feel this sort of tearing and ripping on the inside.

Edited October 24, 2020 by freeform

[silent thunder]

tingsung

 

never separate.

co-arising... this with that

conjoined unfolding...

 

awareness atuned.

breath permeating presence.

expansive release.

 

fluid dancing

'tuned in' while releasing

freely being... this!

 

 

[Wu Ming Jen]

One is not truly able to root without song first. For me when we have proper body mechanics and alinement then the bones, sinews and tendons are able to keep proper posture and the muscles can truly relax. The three powers heaven, earth and humanity meaning a light  energy is lifting us up towards heaven, we are rooted in the earth and move freely in-between.

 

To truly relax yet have strength is a matter of combing yin and yang. The balance of not being limp and weak falling on the ground or strong and rigid that is tense, stopping energy flow and easily broken. 

 

Imagine your body is a long stick and you balance the stick on the palm of your hand . The ground is your palm and the stick is your relaxed body that is song. 

[silent thunder]

bones stacked in alignment support the body

effortlessly

 

soft tissue expansive, unfoldingly... moves the bones

fluidly

 

mind engaging, tuning

never grasping

no forcing

 

allowing

interweaving

 

awareness and presence...

harmony

Edited October 24, 2020 by silent thunder

[anshino23]

Wonderful answers from everyone here. Many thanks. 

 

@freeform: It does seem like the line between relaxation and Song is something one needs to figure out quite early on. 

 

I would say that most of my standing practice when applying the principles of Ting and Song into it is not at all comfortable and in fact, quite painful. Feet burning, back muscles aching, legs sometimes trembling, insides stretching and pushing in and out, fluids being moved around in abdomen... Very uncomfortable in fact. 

 

At the times where I am very tired and try to Song, it usually ends up not being song... but ends up being this instead. 

 

 

So that's a great beautiful way of illustrating the difference for me. Thank you for that