My summary of simple philosophical foundations

[helpfuldemon]

There are two main truths to existence; the spiritual truth, and the material truth. The material truth is that the Universe is form, fuel, fire, matter, motion and measurement. From here we have developed the physical sciences. The spiritual truth is desire, and duty, and the myriad combinations of emotions based on the joy and sorrow that is felt from them. From here we have developed the sacred and profane, and the laws from which we engage existence. Mankind is mostly a neutral being, having propensities towards all action, and we have sorted out these actions to suit our sensibilities of knowledge from birth to death. Mankind must exist in a social world, and so many of our rules and laws require co-operation of the parts to create the whole, and from there we establish society. From society, we establish social norms and innovations which we call civilization, and we carry much of these things throughout the Ages. Of the two main truths of existence, there is the actual, and the ideal, and often we struggle with the disparagement of the actual not fitting with the ideal. Life is not ideal, for people have the freedom of choice, and the environment provides opportunity to stray from the ideal choices, and so mankind needs to watch the actual and gauge events based upon these while keeping in mind the ideal, which is how we hope events to play out.

[wstein]

Spiritual truth has to do with the things not made of matter and energy and the stuff that extends beyond the material universe.

 

ALL of the above is material truth. Its ALL Earth bound and doesn't even cover the full extent of material reality.

 

[silent thunder]

Interesting... to me, there is no meaningful separation of 'material' and 'spiritual' anywhere.

Spirit is not something which is not a thing that exists 'out there' somewhere apart from here where i am... what i am.

 

Material is dense, slow vibration that may seem solid and mundane, since I can interact with it easily.  But there is no solid thing anywhere in life or nature.  Near the source, all 'things' are varying frequencies of vibration.

Ephemeral, gossamer patterns of fluidic ever shifting energies.  Never static, and never solid.

 

I think because we can and do interact with 'material' reality so readily and 'easily' it can be overlooked and undervalued.  Demoted to 'mere material'.  When for me the exact opposite is my experience.

 

For me spirit imbues every manifest form, from stone to plant to planet to turd in a puddle.

Spirit imbues the manifest and manifestation is spiritual motion.

 

We humans seem readily wired, trained or prone (or all three) to overlook the miraculous nature of the simple, the 'ordinary'.  I contend there are more miracles occuring in one square meter of 'ordinary' earth, than there are recorded in all the libraries of mankind throughout history, combined.

 

But this is only my take on it, my experience of it... not claiming it as the truth... it's my truth, for now.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by silent thunder
added a thought

[helpfuldemon]

Im not using the word Spirit in the sense of a ghost, or some ethereal spectral form, and even if I were, it is still material.  Im using Spirit in the sense of a "sense of a thing, or meaning", meaning that it is an intellectual apprehension, and not a material form.  The intellect is material, but the idea is not.

[helpfuldemon]

These are the philosophical truths that I have arrived at, which began with an interest in occultism, but became well rounded by studying philosophy.  I think the occult is just the religiosity of philosophy, as per mystery cults.  I suppose at one time that was where new philosophy came from, but I think we have moved beyond that, and I think with Christianity and Buddhism, we have a near perfect philosophy of moderation.  Everything else is excess or lawless, and the result is a form of disorder.

[helpfuldemon]

The Will to Power is the Will to do, and in doing, we accomplish and acquire, and in this world wanting and getting is a prime motive.  

 

The Magic (and the illness) of love is when it becomes a possession and power with an expectation. For love to be Holy and pure, it needs to be freely felt and freely given. It is when love is a desire that it is tainted with lust and Evil. Desire is the root of all Evil, and it was Adam and Eves first Sin.

[Jadespear]

Does everything not abide by a number of commonalities?  Absolute truth is what you're trying to identify in parts, calling different forms and concepts different things.  

 

What everything actually is physically- we could call the "material truth" 

The original intent or meaning inherent in all the "material things" - we could call the spiritual or essential or the "why" of things

The facts about how things relate or interact dynamically - we could call cause and effect or reciprocity 

The story of all things, they are created, sustained, and perish - we could call the saga

The different aspects of existence, the temporal or sequential ( time-space plane ), the energetic ( bound to space, but not time ),and the eternal ( timeless and spaceless, unbound, and infinite ) - we could call the "spectrum of existence"

 

 

[helpfuldemon]

The essence of all morality lies in the definition of Good and Evil.  To do Good is to aid, to do Evil is to obstruct or harm.  When it comes to life and society, obstructing someone's right to their health, and wealth and freedom is immoral.  Therefore, a general rule is Do Not Obstruct, unless that person is obstructing another persons health, wealth and liberty.  All arrangements need to be contractual, and if it isn't spoken or written, it shouldn't be considered to be the agreement.

Edited November 21, 2020 by helpfuldemon

[helpfuldemon]

On 11/7/2020 at 8:04 PM, Jadespear said:

Does everything not abide by a number of commonalities?  Absolute truth is what you're trying to identify in parts, calling different forms and concepts different things.  

 

What everything actually is physically- we could call the "material truth" 

The original intent or meaning inherent in all the "material things" - we could call the spiritual or essential or the "why" of things

The facts about how things relate or interact dynamically - we could call cause and effect or reciprocity 

The story of all things, they are created, sustained, and perish - we could call the saga

The different aspects of existence, the temporal or sequential ( time-space plane ), the energetic ( bound to space, but not time ),and the eternal ( timeless and spaceless, unbound, and infinite ) - we could call the "spectrum of existence"

 

 

I think everything is material, even thoughts-  and I also think everything is bound to time, and matter.  

[Jadespear]

Thoughts being "material" in what sense?  In the sense that they have an effect on things (a measure of quantity) by virtue of their quality?  

 

Everything is bound to time......? Interesting stance to ponder.  Again, in what sense?  In the sense that everything can be said to occur relative to a measurable period of time?    But what about things that do exist, or that can exist, that are not defined by or governed by an element of time?

[helpfuldemon]

On 12/10/2020 at 6:10 PM, Jadespear said:

Thoughts being "material" in what sense?  In the sense that they have an effect on things (a measure of quantity) by virtue of their quality?  

 

Everything is bound to time......? Interesting stance to ponder.  Again, in what sense?  In the sense that everything can be said to occur relative to a measurable period of time?    But what about things that do exist, or that can exist, that are not defined by or governed by an element of time?

Thoughts are language in memory that are conjured up by parts of the brain and body and transmitted through our mind.  They run on physical channels.  

 

Everything is bound to time, what do you suggest isnt?

[Paradoxal]

6 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

Everything is bound to time, what do you suggest isnt?

Nothing is bound to time, as time itself is an illusion. What we experience as "time" is just a construct of the realm we are currently in, and as soon as one leaves said realm, time becomes a nonfactor. It's why various experiences completely ignore the concept of time.

[Jadespear]

On 12/12/2020 at 4:33 AM, helpfuldemon said:

Thoughts are language in memory that are conjured up by parts of the brain and body and transmitted through our mind.  They run on physical channels.  

 

Everything is bound to time, what do you suggest isnt?

 

I think it would be helpful to illustrate another aspect of this discussion.  That aspect is the idea of timelessness expressed through certain "qualities".  Hence the quality of being courageous or happy or focused exists in it's own right as a quality, and also is expressed within time.  

[Jadespear]

On 12/12/2020 at 11:16 AM, Paradoxal said:

Nothing is bound to time, as time itself is an illusion. What we experience as "time" is just a construct of the realm we are currently in, and as soon as one leaves said realm, time becomes a nonfactor. It's why various experiences completely ignore the concept of time.

 

....dude this is stupid abstract mumbo jumbo...  time isn't an illusion in the literal sense, it exists...  time gives shape to everything.  I challenge you to expand on the illusory aspect you claim, while using the knowledge you have, not what you read.  

[silent thunder]

3 hours ago, Jadespear said:

 

....dude this is stupid abstract mumbo jumbo...  time isn't an illusion in the literal sense, it exists...  time gives shape to everything.  I challenge you to expand on the illusory aspect you claim, while using the knowledge you have, not what you read.  

 Well, at least you're not bitter about it.

 

Fundamentally disagree with you on time existing mate.  It's not an objective property/virtue of reality.  Time is a human manufactured perceptual function of comparative memory and as such, is relegated to thought and is subjective.  If your memory (alzheimers, dementia) shuts down, your notions of time passing dissolve as well.

 

You could visit the work of Einstein, Bohm, Bohr or visit an elderly care facility to observe this.

 

 

[sagebrush]

dont take dementia personally. "-)

[Paradoxal]

11 hours ago, Jadespear said:

time isn't an illusion in the literal sense, it exists...

Something being an illusion does not mean that it does not exist. 

 

11 hours ago, Jadespear said:

time gives shape to everything.

That is only the way it appears on the surface. By looking a little deeper, you may see a different picture entirely.

 

11 hours ago, Jadespear said:

I challenge you to expand on the illusory aspect you claim, while using the knowledge you have, not what you read.

How can I describe to a blind man what it is like to see? I describe what I see myself, and yet it is taken as a fantasy! How laughable indeed! It would be worth looking into Plato's Allegory of the Cave, friend! I believe that it can describe this better than I would on a forum post, but unfortunately, that in itself is simply "what you read"! 

 

I think you're uncomfortable looking past the cover of the book, and that is fine. It's perfectly natural to want to stop at the brink of the unknown, and come back with the experience of coming close to it, but it is quite rewarding to take that one extra step in. As for time itself, look at dream time. Look at the differences in how we "experience" life day-to-day, as the years go by. A year for a child feels like an eternity, and yet a year for an adult feels like nothing at all! A minute of anticipation lasts much longer than ten minutes of fun, and yet funtime is much longer objectively! Some dreams can last years while only taking an hour to conjure, and some martial artists can enter a time-free state via focus. Time is something entirely irrelevant to experience, and yet we always attempt to place our experiences in time itself. 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Paradoxal
Clarified phrasing on first point

[Jadespear]

While the reality of all things united can be seen as a picture of unity; defined as the unending present moment from a certain point of view, there is also an aspect of how long things exist in certain forms.  Saying there is no such thing as time is also denying the simple fact that if that were true in a physical sense there would be no means for things to change.  But things do change.  Because they do there is an aspect of nature that works to make that happen, which we call time.  

 

[helpfuldemon]

Time is intangible except in that we can measure it, which makes it real.  

[wstein]

12 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

Time is intangible except in that we can measure it, which makes it real.  

Makes it subjectively real.