Evidnece for the super natural

[Maddie]

4 hours ago, Paradoxal said:

I've found that I'll sometimes unintentionally control the weather still. I think it has something to do with the level of power of the person in question on how easy it is, but most people that I've met that are involved in internal martial arts have enough to do it accidentally. 

 

As for the experiences, of the subsets I listed, are there any that particularly interest you? 

 

What ever ones that you found most interesting since you were there.

[Paradoxal]

6 hours ago, dmattwads said:

What ever ones that you found most interesting since you were there.

Good response. I'll start with the prophetic visions, then, as that was what got me started on my journey in the first place. 

 

Some background info is needed beforehand, though. Until the first vision I had, I had been an extremely militant athiest, and would openly insult and degrade those that believed in anything that I couldn't see. I saw anything that couldn't be written in a scientific journal as malicious scams targeted towards those who were not as smart as I. I had read the bible as a bedtime story since early childhood, however, and have close family in the bible belt of the USA. 

On to the vision itself, it wasn't anything spectacular. It happened while I was asleep, though, it wasn't a dream. I'm not sure how to describe the feeling well, but it felt much more real than reality does. The only times I get that feeling are from projections, and I remember everything that happens in these projections near perfectly, no matter how long the projection lasts. I came to in a pearly-white room; it was square shaped, with similar colored and textured ceiling, floor, and walls. The floorspace was around 10 meters by 10 meters. There were no visible entrances, exits, or windows. No visible light sources, but the whole room was glowing with golden-white light. As I looked around the room, I saw a massive humanoid figure. Around 274cm tall. He was dressed in flowing white robes, and leaned on a large double-edged sword, something similar to a claymore. His face was surrounded by a golden-white light, which felt brighter than the sun, but strangely, I could see his face clearly. If I had to describe his features, they were the epitome of beautiful. As soon as I saw this figure, I instantly "knew" who it was, despite never meeting him before, nor knowing what he was supposed to look like; "Archangel Michael". He simply told me "Tread carefully, a storm is coming. The waters will soon clear". After that, I woke up. 

 

For around a year and a half after the dream, I questioned its validity. I did not heed the warning, and did not exercise caution. In the period of around 3 months after the dream, I had problem after problem in my life. I wasn't careful with what I said, and it led to a fight with my girlfriend of four years, which led to a breakup. I wasn't careful with my actions, which led to a group I led being ripped apart from the inside. I wasn't careful with my emotions, which led me to alienate most of my then friend group. All of these things could have been avoided if I had acted with caution. During that time period, I became convinced that if nothing else, Michael was indeed real. I spent much time doubting my own sanity, and more time cursing Michael for not giving me more details on what was going to happen. This is the time period in which I became involved in the occult, as I felt the need to learn more about this unseen side of things. 

 

Another thing that happened during that time period was a second "dream", in which I recovered past life memories. Again, it was one that I can remember crystal clear, even now. That said, it also took me many years to fully accept that it was true, due to my ingrained skepticism. In the dream, I was a child; around six years old. I woke up sometime around sunrise, saw my father off to work, and played games in the living area. The rooms were floored with tatami mats, and the home itself had around six rooms. The walls were made of framed paper, and the doors were traditional Japanese sliding doors. I recall my bedroom, the kitchen-area, the living area, and the hallways. My mother dressed in a purple flowered kimono, while my father wore western-style clothing. In the dream, I wore plainly colored samue kurume, dark green and light brown. I spent most of the morning after breakfast at the table, playing with wooden toys, while my mother was working on food in the kitchen. Slightly before lunchtime, I felt the ground shake. I looked out a window, and saw a large fireball. I saw my mother look out the same window, utter an exclamation, and by that point, I felt hot. I saw light shining in from the windows and walls, and I felt my body heating up rapidly. I felt myself catch fire, and burn to death. At the end of the dream, I felt a deep sinking sensation that felt like I was being sucked out of my body into the depths of the earth. 

 

That, that was the second catalyst to what started me on my path. It was what got me interested in Japanese culture as a whole, as well as what helped convince me that there was more than meets the eye in life. It also traumatized me, and helped create a motive of malice towards a "god" that would create such a vile world, as well as an ambition to surpass whatever god may have created this world. Said trauma, ambition. and malice have already been worked through, and I am now thankful for the wakeup calls I received from these experiences, but they were by no means pleasant. While I don't expect people to believe me simply because I claim something, I would indeed be happy to share more if you would like to hear more. It does take some time in the right state of mind to type these up though, so do bear with my slow speed! 

[Maddie]

3 hours ago, Paradoxal said:

Good response. I'll start with the prophetic visions, then, as that was what got me started on my journey in the first place. 

 

Some background info is needed beforehand, though. Until the first vision I had, I had been an extremely militant athiest, and would openly insult and degrade those that believed in anything that I couldn't see. I saw anything that couldn't be written in a scientific journal as malicious scams targeted towards those who were not as smart as I. I had read the bible as a bedtime story since early childhood, however, and have close family in the bible belt of the USA. 

On to the vision itself, it wasn't anything spectacular. It happened while I was asleep, though, it wasn't a dream. I'm not sure how to describe the feeling well, but it felt much more real than reality does. The only times I get that feeling are from projections, and I remember everything that happens in these projections near perfectly, no matter how long the projection lasts. I came to in a pearly-white room; it was square shaped, with similar colored and textured ceiling, floor, and walls. The floorspace was around 10 meters by 10 meters. There were no visible entrances, exits, or windows. No visible light sources, but the whole room was glowing with golden-white light. As I looked around the room, I saw a massive humanoid figure. Around 274cm tall. He was dressed in flowing white robes, and leaned on a large double-edged sword, something similar to a claymore. His face was surrounded by a golden-white light, which felt brighter than the sun, but strangely, I could see his face clearly. If I had to describe his features, they were the epitome of beautiful. As soon as I saw this figure, I instantly "knew" who it was, despite never meeting him before, nor knowing what he was supposed to look like; "Archangel Michael". He simply told me "Tread carefully, a storm is coming. The waters will soon clear". After that, I woke up. 

 

For around a year and a half after the dream, I questioned its validity. I did not heed the warning, and did not exercise caution. In the period of around 3 months after the dream, I had problem after problem in my life. I wasn't careful with what I said, and it led to a fight with my girlfriend of four years, which led to a breakup. I wasn't careful with my actions, which led to a group I led being ripped apart from the inside. I wasn't careful with my emotions, which led me to alienate most of my then friend group. All of these things could have been avoided if I had acted with caution. During that time period, I became convinced that if nothing else, Michael was indeed real. I spent much time doubting my own sanity, and more time cursing Michael for not giving me more details on what was going to happen. This is the time period in which I became involved in the occult, as I felt the need to learn more about this unseen side of things. 

 

Another thing that happened during that time period was a second "dream", in which I recovered past life memories. Again, it was one that I can remember crystal clear, even now. That said, it also took me many years to fully accept that it was true, due to my ingrained skepticism. In the dream, I was a child; around six years old. I woke up sometime around sunrise, saw my father off to work, and played games in the living area. The rooms were floored with tatami mats, and the home itself had around six rooms. The walls were made of framed paper, and the doors were traditional Japanese sliding doors. I recall my bedroom, the kitchen-area, the living area, and the hallways. My mother dressed in a purple flowered kimono, while my father wore western-style clothing. In the dream, I wore plainly colored samue kurume, dark green and light brown. I spent most of the morning after breakfast at the table, playing with wooden toys, while my mother was working on food in the kitchen. Slightly before lunchtime, I felt the ground shake. I looked out a window, and saw a large fireball. I saw my mother look out the same window, utter an exclamation, and by that point, I felt hot. I saw light shining in from the windows and walls, and I felt my body heating up rapidly. I felt myself catch fire, and burn to death. At the end of the dream, I felt a deep sinking sensation that felt like I was being sucked out of my body into the depths of the earth. 

 

That, that was the second catalyst to what started me on my path. It was what got me interested in Japanese culture as a whole, as well as what helped convince me that there was more than meets the eye in life. It also traumatized me, and helped create a motive of malice towards a "god" that would create such a vile world, as well as an ambition to surpass whatever god may have created this world. Said trauma, ambition. and malice have already been worked through, and I am now thankful for the wakeup calls I received from these experiences, but they were by no means pleasant. While I don't expect people to believe me simply because I claim something, I would indeed be happy to share more if you would like to hear more. It does take some time in the right state of mind to type these up though, so do bear with my slow speed! 

 

I would be happy for you to continue :-)

[Paradoxal]

6 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

I would be happy for you to continue :-)

Then I will do so in the morning, after breakfast. It is late night here, so I do need some sleep. 

[Paradoxal]

As where I live is something of a hotspot, encounters with non-physical entities are a near-daily occurrence for me; thus, I will select some of the more unique or interesting (in my opinion!) encounters I've had. 

 

We recently had to put one of my family cats down; her kidneys had failed and there was no hope of survival, only suffering. A few moments after the injection, no more than one or two minutes, and no less than thirty seconds, I found that she had taken a ghost-like form. Her physical body was still on the table, but her spirit was walking around the room energetically. Of course, the doctors and my family were not able to see it, and my physical eyes could not see her either. It was simply a presence that I've gotten somewhat attuned to, so I used my mental screen to see rather than my physical eyes. When she rubbed up against me, as cats do, I could feel my energy field being pressed, but not my physical body. She followed us into the car, and stayed with us on the way home. It felt much like she was trying to comfort my family, because we all felt extremely guilty about having to put her down, and we were grieving at the same time. After getting home, she followed us into the house, walked around for a bit, and then left. 

 

Another, much briefer, encounter that happened recently, was at around 4:00am. I was up late, and was looking for food in the kitchen. All of a sudden, I felt a presence in the living room, and so I looked in. There was a visible aura around my father's favorite chair, somewhat human-shaped. I asked mentally what it was doing there, and why it was here. It said it was visiting, and meant no harm, but asked me to let it be. Usually, when things wander into my house, I exorcise them without a second thought, but my gut told me to do as this one asked. It felt distinctly like a ghost (I've had encounters with three ghosts before this one), so I asked who it was. It felt like it was smiling (of course, I couldn't see a mouth on it, but that was the sensation I found), and said that I shouldn't worry about who it was. I went to check on my father, as I wanted to make sure he hadn't died in his sleep, and he was still alive. Thus, I summoned a familiar to keep watch over my family to make sure they were not harmed in their sleep, got my food, ate my food, and went to bed. The next day, I found out that my father's best friend had overnight in his sleep. He had known me as a child, but I don't remember him. 

 

A few years back, I had a rather extended encounter with a spirit serpent. Its appearance was that of a bright, leafy-green snake, with a double-scaled pale tan belly. If I were to estimate size, it would have been around sixty centimeters in diameter, and at least three to five meters long. Its head was arrow-shaped, and was a bit taller than most real snakes I've seen. It had multiple spikes swept back on the back of its head, and two smaller spikes above each eye pointed forwards. Its eyes were of a dark green, with black pupils. Its scales shone in multi-colored reflections, and its tail was spiked much like its head. It appeared in multiple dreams, and I would often feel like a snake was nearby in various locations where there were no snakes. This was at a point when my spiritual awareness was rather low, but it made quite an impact on me mentally. Eventually, I called out to it mentally, and had a conversation. Among other things, I asked why it was following me, what it was, and what it wanted. It had replied, paraphrased, that it was a "spirit serpent", and that it was following me because it was curious about me and wanted to see more. After that conversation, it stopped appearing near me and stopped following me. I have encountered it since, but that was when I specifically called out to it.

 

One of the more recent major occurrences happened this summer. I worked as a pizza delivery driver at the time. I got the feeling of wanting a break from my work for around two weeks, getting stronger as the weeks went by. Over the weekend of one week, I decided to call in and tell them to take me off my shifts for a week because I was getting exhausted. They agreed, but told me to finish out the week I was schedule to first, which was a matter of course. At the end of the second-to-last shift on the job, one of my buttons popped off. On my way home from that shift, I saw the form of a dragon in the clouds (a western dragon, and not a good sign in this case). When I got home, and counted the cash I made from that shift, I made an exact 66$. Throughout the rest of the next few days, I felt a massive sense of foreboding. At the beginning next shift I was assigned to, I was T-boned by someone going well over three times the speed limit in a residential area while on their phone. My insurance refused to cover, as I did not have the right type. It completely totaled my car, cost me my job, and messed my back up rather badly. While this occurrence wasn't completely supernatural, I would say that this particular instance convinced me to listen to my gut with more conviction.

 

As a final story for this post, I'll tell a cautionary tale of my own mistakes. The year I was learning to drive, I had also been studying astral projection. During the week I was taking driver's ed classes, I was working on lowering my connection to my body to make astral projection easier. By the time I went to class one night, I had been up for around 20 hours straight, and hadn't eaten in around 36 hours; I had planned to try to astral project after class. During that class, they showed a video of a fatal car crash from within the car. Apparently, they're not supposed to warn the students beforehand, so noone can leave the class. If a student leaves during the video, they have to retake the entire set of classes. Well, the video was from facetime records. A group of teenage girls was facetiming while driving on a highway, and due to the driver's attention being on the call, they veered off the road and crashed into a fencepost. The driver shattered all the bones in her body, the front seat passenger got her cheek impaled on a splintered wooden fencepost, and the ones in the backseat got cut up from the glass and beaten by the impact. Only the driver died. However, when the video started, it triggered an accidental projection into the video itself. I felt the whole crash from the perspective of every person involved, starting from around a month prior and ending around a month after. I felt death from all the bones being crushed, I felt the fencepost impale my cheek, and I felt the horror of the first responders. I felt the grief of the parents, the anger, the fear, all of it. I can remember the funerals, as well as the arguments involved. All of this happened in an instant in realtime. When I came back to my body, I immediately ran outside and threw up. It took around three months for me to mentally process all that I experienced in that instant. Thus, my warning, is to be extremely cautious in what practices you take seriously, and do not underestimate the risks of sticking your nose in things you do not understand. The supernatural can be wonderful, but it can also bring experiences much beyond the purview of most people. Practice caution, learn about things before attempting them, and stick to your gut feelings. 

 

I hope this has helped, despite how dark some of the stories may be!

[Nungali]

I knew this was gonna go from evidence to anecdote    

[natural]

one persons ....

Edited November 18, 2020 by natural
clarity

[CCD]

If something exists, it has an effect on something else.

If something has an effect on something else, that effect can be observed.

If something can be observed, it can be studied.

If something can be studied, it can be understood.

If something can be understood, it can be manipulated.

Air, heat, magnetism, electricity, each are invisible on their own, but we've been able to observe, study & manipulate each of them with tools. The more we know about something, the better we can control it.

Imagine there is a force completely unknown to modern science that we'll call PSI that allows people to move things with their mind Psycho-Kinetically. If there are people who can perform PK, that doesn't make it supernatural, simply because we don't understand it. If one person can do it reliably enough to conduct tests, then with enough tests it could be figured out & would likely be the case if it could be used to teach other people PK or otherwise deduce who could do it or who couldn't.

The biggest problem I see with anything pertaining to spiritual / super-natural things (including, but not limited to PK) are people who blindly accept "facts" with nothing supporting them. These "facts" either being something they've just heard from somewhere else & regurgitate without questioning, probably from a source that doesn't have actual experience with the subject but created the illusion of being an expert, or from bits of anecdotal evidence or personal beliefs mascaraing as facts. (The latter of which is usually accompanied by a lot of secrecy & resistance to investigation that could contradict it. Frequently straying off-topic to preach is usually a giveaway.)

Edited November 19, 2020 by CCD

[freeform]

Think of it this way.

 

Say you dedicate yourself to the spiritual arts - spend all your time, all your resources on this pursuit... You live and breathe this art... you give up much of your life to it, make huge sacrifices for it - and it so happens that a byproduct of this pursuit is considered 'supernatural' by some.

 

Why would you suddenly put all that work, all that effort on hold and subject yourself to a lifetime of scrutiny notoriety?

 

Would any of you, right now, be willing to drop your life, leave your family, quit your job and in effect voluntarily put yourself through a public judicial process about something people want to vehemently discredit you for?

 

These things that seem supernatural are not even the point of it all anyway - yet by the very act of trying to prove its existence, you're diverting attention away from the actual goal of your pursuit to something completely irrelevant.

 

So not only would you be putting your work on hold, putting yourself under public scrutiny, losing your privacy, shouldering at least some of the cost of this endeavour - but you'd also be tarnishing, manipulating and discrediting the spiritual art that is so precious to you.

 

And then, even if they prove something to any reasonable level - there will always be a way to disprove it in some way.

 

It's all downside with no upside...

 

That's why you will (almost) never get highly achieved people that will willingly put themselves under public scientific scrutiny.

 

I think it's good to be skeptical. In fact I believe the vast majority of what is shown as being supernatural is in fact fake, or just stupidity or bias.

 

But understand that you will never find any hard proof for something so multifaceted as Qi for instance - in the same way - that despite constant scientific study we still don't know what foods are healthy. Or in the way that we're not even sure what light is - whether it's waves or particles.

 

But to experience Qi (which is invariably subjective and anecdotal) is a whole different matter. Just like to experience light is so patently obvious but nevertheless completely subjective.

 

I've met many people that can transmit Qi - and it's a very objective, unsubtle experience - so much so that 12 completely impartial or even hostile observers would experience it in the same way (as a strong electric shock).

 

But there is no way to make that experience objective... even with impartial observers, even with video evidence, even with adjudicators checking for foul play - someone will be able to find a way to discredit it.

[Iliketurtles]

Since James Randi retired his challenge this is the next in line.

 

https://cfiig.org/250k-challenge/

 

 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Iliketurtles

[SongShuhang]

Why would anyone bother searching evidence for supernatural, like how is this beneficial to you?

[CCD]

45 minutes ago, SongShuhang said:

Why would anyone bother searching evidence for supernatural, like how is this beneficial to you?

It'd be better for you than just blindly believing just for the sake of it.

[Maddie]

2 hours ago, SongShuhang said:

Why would anyone bother searching evidence for supernatural, like how is this beneficial to you?

 

how has searching for evidence of anything been beneficial? It leads to knowledge. If humanity had not had this attitude we'd still be hunter-gatherers.

[SongShuhang]

1 hour ago, dmattwads said:

how has searching for evidence of anything been beneficial? It leads to knowledge. If humanity had not had this attitude we'd still be hunter-gatherers.

 

so what if it would take 10 years to find evidence, would you go for it?

 

you sound like someone who does not want to spend any effort and looks for ready answers

[SongShuhang]

4 hours ago, CCD said:

It'd be better for you than just blindly believing just for the sake of it.

 

I am not blindly believing anything, I have developed siddhi myself, and while there are powers I don't have, people in tradition whom I can trust have got many of those, it depends by hierarchy and to meet someone with high skill and ability, you might need to train first

 

its like you don't meet university professors or top science minds while you are sitting in kindergarten

Edited November 22, 2020 by SongShuhang

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, SongShuhang said:

 

so what if it would take 10 years to find evidence, would you go for it?

 

 

It took the human race 200,000 years to get to this point so yeah I'm fine with 10 years, 20 years, 100 years.

 

1 hour ago, SongShuhang said:

 

 

you sound like someone who does not want to spend any effort and looks for ready answers

 

what do you base this judgment upon?

[SongShuhang]

51 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

It took the human race 200,000 years to get to this point so yeah I'm fine with 10 years, 20 years, 100 years.

 

 

we are not talking about the human race, we are talking about YOU

 

how long it will take you to learn the actual knowledge of physics and maths?

[SongShuhang]

54 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

what do you base this judgment upon?

 

You are literally asking to be spoonfed in this thread.

 

Evidence of some math theory took 300 years and 400 pages of work by some genius to develop, now you might spend your whole life learning and studying maths and reading that "explanation" and you will never grasp it. There are probably not so many people who can truly understand it even after the "evidence" was provided.

 

Yet you come on forums and ask for evidence for something quite as complex as supernatural abilities? Does it make any sense?

[SongShuhang]

1 hour ago, dmattwads said:

yeah I'm fine with 10 years, 20 years, 100 years.

I am sorry to bring this up but you won't be up alive in 100 years, so how is it going to be fine with you. 

[Maddie]

6 minutes ago, SongShuhang said:

 

You are literally asking to be spoonfed in this thread.

 

Evidence of some math theory took 300 years and 400 pages of work by some genius to develop, now you might spend your whole life learning and studying maths and reading that "explanation" and you will never grasp it. There are probably not so many people who can truly understand it even after the "evidence" was provided.

 

Yet you come on forums and ask for evidence for something quite as complex as supernatural abilities? Does it make any sense?

 

I asked if there was any evidence.

 

You have very strong emotions about this topic. Why is that?

[SongShuhang]

3 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

I asked if there was any evidence.

 

There is in circles of people with superpowers.

 

3 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

You have very strong emotions about this topic. Why is that?

 

you seem to be bad about reading emotions, cause I don't have any

[silent thunder]

dmattwads has been contributing here for like a decade.

He's got a long established practice. 

 

Besides, are there now 'prerequisites' to opening a conversation about high level manifestations?

 

Perhaps leave the conversation to those who are interested in contributing sincerely, if it bothers you song.

Edited November 22, 2020 by silent thunder

[SongShuhang]

10 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

dmattwads has been contributing here for like a decade.

He's got a long established practice. 

 

Besides, are there now 'prerequisites' to opening a conversation about high level manifestations?

 

Perhaps leave the conversation to those who are interested in contributing sincerely, if it bothers you song.

 

It is clear he has wasted a decade with no results if he keeps going on the internet asking for evidence of something supernatural.

[Maddie]

10 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

dmattwads has been contributing here for like a decade.

He's got a long established practice. 

 

Besides, are there now 'prerequisites' to opening a conversation about high level manifestations?

 

Perhaps leave the conversation to those who are interested in contributing sincerely, if it bothers you song.

 

It doesn't bother him because he doesn't have any emotions he said so himself 😉

[silent thunder]

7 minutes ago, SongShuhang said:

 

It is clear he has wasted a decade with no results if he keeps going on the internet asking for evidence of something supernatural.

 

You're embarrassing yourself mate.

 

later.