The duality fallacy

[dwai]

Duality is a fallacy, a mistake that rises from the sense of separateness between a subject and any object of knowledge. Because there seems to be an object separate from the observer, it is inferred that the object must be a distinctly separate entity than the observer. 
 

One typically explains duality by stating that “body and mind” is “me” and anything else is “not me”, so there is indeed the subject-object duality. 
 

But through a series of phenomenological experiments one can quite easily realize, “that which observes” is not the body of the observer or even the mind of the observer. But rather, the body and mind “belongs” to the observer (I am) — which is merely a quality of knowing — consciousness. 

In fact even the sense that “I am” can’t be pinpointed to any part of the body (or attributed to any particular function of the mind). when we sit with this for a period of time in observation and contemplation the me and not me dichotomy falls apart. 
 

All knowing happens within “me” (the consciousness/knowingness) and there is no thing that can exist apart. 
 

One might then immediately counter with — “but what if you don’t see the object, but someone else does. Does that not prove that objects exist separately from subjects?”

 

When such a question arises, ask yourself, “how do I KNOW that such an object exists?” 
 

Have we ever known “non-existence” without “existence”? And has any knowing been possible without consciousness? 

Edited November 10, 2020 by dwai

[sagebrush]

I just do not agree. I read through what was written, I will read it again slowly.

 

It feels like I have read it so many times and that somehow it is like brainwashing.

 

Why is it so bad if there is a separateness of you and object. I like me over here  and a you over there. and once it gets odd-

 

then its weird. I think it is also unnecessary.

 

I like being separated. I like duality.

 

I do not think any knowing is possible  with out being conscious of it in general.

I agree on that.

Does someone have to get fully vested in Advaita or non duality.

 

Can you give me part of the NIV bible that express this?   Maybe through another lens or angle.

 

I think this MUST be a meditation technique or necessity for some people.

 

If my questions or participations are not welcome in this forum. Please just use english directed to me.

 

meditation is not going to save my soul.

 

we are all welcome to belief what we want or not.

 

I think as a spiritual forum...all questions or counter questions are permissible ?

 

This seems to be pretty much the most important aspect of meditation beginning and non duality school.

 

Its almost irritating like if a trees falls in the forest and no one is around does it make a sound.

 

it does make a sound.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dwai]

10 hours ago, sagebrush said:

I just do not agree. I read through what was written, I will read it again slowly.

 

It feels like I have read it so many times and that somehow it is like brainwashing.

 

Why is it so bad if there is a separateness of you and object. I like me over here  and a you over there. and once it gets odd-

 

then its weird. I think it is also unnecessary.

 

I like being separated. I like duality.

 

I do not think any knowing is possible  with out being conscious of it in general.

I agree on that.

Does someone have to get fully vested in Advaita or non duality.

 

Can you give me part of the NIV bible that express this?   Maybe through another lens or angle.

 

I think this MUST be a meditation technique or necessity for some people.

 

If my questions or participations are not welcome in this forum. Please just use english directed to me.

 

meditation is not going to save my soul.

 

we are all welcome to belief what we want or not.

 

I think as a spiritual forum...all questions or counter questions are permissible ?

 

This seems to be pretty much the most important aspect of meditation beginning and non duality school.

 

Its almost irritating like if a trees falls in the forest and no one is around does it make a sound.

 

it does make a sound.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Meditate on it instead of resisting it. What is the NIV Bible? Never heard of it  

 

Ask yourself, “what is it about nonduality that irritates me so?”

 

 

[Nintendao]

The first thing that comes to mind is “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Matthew 22:37-40 shows this as the greatest commandment second only to love for God. I think at a basic level it leads to the Golden Rule kind of guide on how to treat others, but certainly could be a clue that the neighbor and the self are one.

[sagebrush]

Enjoying Gospel of Matthew on Netflix-three plus hours long-but its enjoyable and love parables too. similar to tao ching

 

something makes that kind of delivery  more applicable or more creative/mysterious 

 

 

 

[sagebrush]

6 hours ago, dwai said:

Meditate on it instead of resisting it. What is the NIV Bible? Never heard of it  

 

Ask yourself, “what is it about nonduality that irritates me so?”

 

 

New international version vs KJB King James bible

King James bible is old language like thou, thy....thouest goeth before me....

etc etc

the New version is less fancy old school terms

Edited November 11, 2020 by sagebrush

[dwai]

14 minutes ago, sagebrush said:

New international version vs KJB King James bible

King James bible is old language like thou, thy....thouest goeth before me....

etc etc

the New version is less fancy old school terms

Thanks. I don't know much about Bibles.  But I know some of my Christian nondualist friends refer to The Sermon on the Mount as a good example of Nonduality therein -- https://estudantedavedanta.net/uploads/1/0/9/5/109527077/sermon_vedanta.pdf

 

In fact even at a very superficial level, when I hear/read references to statements attributed to Jesus, such as "My father and I are One" or "The kingdom of Heaven is within you", it seems very clear to me what is being referred to here -- The Nondual Self --- that is foundational knowledge for Hindu Nondual traditions (not in such language per se, but what is being pointed towards). 

[Limahong]

18 hours ago, sagebrush said:

I like being separated. I like duality.

 

Hi sagebrush,

 

So am I.

 

Yin without Yang (and vice versa) is boring.

 

 

 

- Anand

 

[dwai]

22 minutes ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi sagebrush,

 

So am I.

 

Yin without Yang (and vice versa) is boring.

 

 

 

- Anand

 

Yin and yang are not separate  

[Limahong]

2 minutes ago, dwai said:

Yin and yang are not separate

 

Is a woman not separated from a man?

 

Until when they...

 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Limahong
Enhancement

[dwai]

9 minutes ago, Limahong said:

 

Is a woman not separated from a man?

 

Until when they...

 

 

So a woman is only yin and a man is only yang? 

 

Yin-Yang go together — taiji. 
Yin cannot exist without yang and yang cannot exist without yin. 

[Limahong]

7 minutes ago, dwai said:

So a woman is only yin and a man is only yang?  

 

A woman has Yang in her and a man has Yin in him. 

 

[sagebrush]

my Yin has given me headache tonight.

:-)

[sagebrush]

7 hours ago, Limahong said:

Hi sagebrush,

Hi-

 

What is the orange about?

Autumnal?

[sagebrush]

8 hours ago, dwai said:

Thanks. I don't know much about Bibles.  But I know some of my Christian nondualist friends refer to The Sermon on the Mount as a good example of Nonduality therein -- https://estudantedavedanta.net/uploads/1/0/9/5/109527077/sermon_vedanta.pdf

 

In fact even at a very superficial level, when I hear/read references to statements attributed to Jesus, such as "My father and I are One" or "The kingdom of Heaven is within you", it seems very clear to me what is being referred to here -- The Nondual Self --- that is foundational knowledge for Hindu Nondual traditions (not in such language per se, but what is being pointed towards). 

I began reading what you posted. I will read it entirely.

 

tried to paste something in the introduction...everyday in his meditation he prays that he may overcome 

the sense of ego, that he may abstain from fault-finding and criticism of others and that he may acquire -love

and sympathy for all.The Vedantist cannot sit down to meditate until he clears his mind of hatreds and 

resentments.

 

I send a thank you for posting that and a thank you to your Christian nondualist friends as well.

 

I like the mosaic as well on the cover.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/132

 

The Sermon on the Mount according to Vedanta
7
/
132
 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by sagebrush

[Limahong]

37 minutes ago, sagebrush said:

What is the orange about? Autumnal?

 

Hi sagebrush,

 

YES

 

 

 

Time to rest and  reflect.

 

- Anand

 

 

[Tesla3]

On 11/10/2020 at 7:06 PM, sagebrush said:

 

 

Can you give me part of the NIV bible that express this?   Maybe through another lens or angle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When I read John 17 the prayer of jesus, it cemented for me that Jesus is teaching about non dualism. I'll include some of the excerpts from that chapter.

 

"Holy Father, you have given me your name now protect them by the power of your name so that they will be united just as we are." (Part of John17.11).                    "I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one—as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me. I have given them the glory you gave me, so they may be one as we are one. I am in them and you are in me. May they experience such perfect unity that the world will know that you sent me and that you love them as much as you love me. (John 17.21-23).

 

I don't know how it could be any more clear.

[Tesla3]

On 11/11/2020 at 12:41 PM, dwai said:

Thanks. I don't know much about Bibles.  But I know some of my Christian nondualist friends refer to The Sermon on the Mount as a good example of Nonduality therein -- https://estudantedavedanta.net/uploads/1/0/9/5/109527077/sermon_vedanta.pdf

 

In fact even at a very superficial level, when I hear/read references to statements attributed to Jesus, such as "My father and I are One" or "The kingdom of Heaven is within you", it seems very clear to me what is being referred to here -- The Nondual Self --- that is foundational knowledge for Hindu Nondual traditions (not in such language per se, but what is being pointed towards). 

Dwai you definitely need to check out, "I am, The first name of God." It is a very good read and makes a lot of sense. https://www.davidgodman.org/i-am-the-first-name-of-god/

Edited November 24, 2020 by Tesla3