Help me interpert yijing divination results

[waterdrop]

I asked : "did the stretches i did up until now did me good ? should i get back to doing stretches ? how ? "   

(that was the phrasing what i had in mind when asking is :       "  did the stretches i did up to now in life have done my health good (or bad) ?       should i get back to doing stretches (i stopped doing it for some days)  ?   how should i do them (aka any advice on how to conduct them yijing)  ?  ) 

I got  :  hexagram  64        with sixth (changing yin)    in the first   and nine (changing yang)  in the fourth       ...........   so hexagram change to 41    

and the secret hexagram is  63

can you help me interpert this  , i am not sure i get what it says at the end -    for example :  did stretching up to now in my life did good to my health or not ?        and should i return to doing stretching ?

[Taomeow]

You may want to rephrase the questions.  The I Ching can't answer any yes/no questions, nor any either/or questions.  

 

Here's how I would ask three separate questions regarding your inquiry:

 

1. I divine the impact on my health of the stretches I did up until now.  (Please give me an image.) 

2. I divine the most likely outcome of going back to doing stretches.  (Please give me an image.)    

3. I divine my best approach to doing stretches from now on.  (Please give me an image.)    

[waterdrop]

@Taomeow  oh wow , thanks !  , i  made a question based on my understanding of damo mitchells guidance in his book  "white moon on the mountain peak"     and he says there clearly not to ask a yes or no question  -  and for some reason i thought my question was not one  - but now i see it clearly is a yes no question 
 
-  he gives example of two section questions   -  the example he gave is  "What is the state of my role as the head of an internal arts organization ?  am i fulfilling the role to the best of my ability ?" 

is there an option to ask a two section question about stretches ?    cause from what i understand from your reply  this are clear 3 different questions that shouldnt be combined in one divination  ? 

- also can i phrase the first one - instead of what you wrote  in 1 ask  :  "what is the impact on my health of the stretches I did up until now ? "     -  is that an ok question ?

Edited November 15, 2020 by waterdrop

[waterdrop]

Ok i had quiet - so i used it to do a divination , im still interested to know what i asked above including if this is a legitmate question - but i had to take this quiet opportunity even if it wasn't a good question  - so i asked  "what is the impact of the stretches i did up to know on my health ? " 

I got :    hexagram  61        with sixth (changing yin)    in the third  and nine (changing yang)  in the fifth and also the six line        ...........   so hexagram change to 11     ...............   and hidden hexagram is 27 

Still not sure how to interpret this - and would appreciate your thoughts

[Apech]

On 11/14/2020 at 7:12 PM, waterdrop said:

I asked : "did the stretches i did up until now did me good ? should i get back to doing stretches ? how ? "   

(that was the phrasing what i had in mind when asking is :       "  did the stretches i did up to now in life have done my health good (or bad) ?       should i get back to doing stretches (i stopped doing it for some days)  ?   how should i do them (aka any advice on how to conduct them yijing)  ?  ) 

I got  :  hexagram  64        with sixth (changing yin)    in the first   and nine (changing yang)  in the fourth       ...........   so hexagram change to 41    

and the secret hexagram is  63

can you help me interpert this  , i am not sure i get what it says at the end -    for example :  did stretching up to now in my life did good to my health or not ?        and should i return to doing stretching ?

 

I would interpret this to mean that whatever task you set out to do (your stretching exercises) is incomplete - that this is not about just trying something out to see what it does but rather a sustained effort (over a reasonable period of time).  41 Decrease suggest you should just sink back into a routine and avoid thinking too much about it.

 

I agree about not asking multiple questions - ask one and then reflect on the answer and ask follow up questions based on clarifying the initial response.

 

Cheers.

[Apech]

On 11/15/2020 at 10:26 AM, waterdrop said:

Ok i had quiet - so i used it to do a divination , im still interested to know what i asked above including if this is a legitmate question - but i had to take this quiet opportunity even if it wasn't a good question  - so i asked  "what is the impact of the stretches i did up to know on my health ? " 

I got :    hexagram  61        with sixth (changing yin)    in the third  and nine (changing yang)  in the fifth and also the six line        ...........   so hexagram change to 11     ...............   and hidden hexagram is 27 

Still not sure how to interpret this - and would appreciate your thoughts

 

 

It suggests you are bit more relaxed - that you should avoid bouncing or over forcing and the best aspect is tissue connectivity. ... I think

 

 

[waterdrop]

@Apech     -   thanks for the replies   ,     about your first post about my first one  -  seems by what taomeow wrote that my question was not good  -  and i seem to buy into what she wrote  ,  you dont agree with that and say its still relevant ?   

about the second divination   :

Quote

hexagram  61        with sixth (changing yin)    in the third  and nine (changing yang)  in the fifth and also the six line        ...........   so hexagram change to 11     ...............   and hidden hexagram is 27

Quote

  It suggests you are bit more relaxed - that you should avoid bouncing or over forcing and the best aspect is tissue connectivity. ... I think

  -    i asked about it as sort of a test for the "Yi jing"   to be honest  and asked here also as a test (but mainly to understand ! just a tiny tiny bit a test)  for people here to see ........   cause truth is  im almost certain the stretching i did  harmed my health (that is why i stopped)    i have become less flexible and got pains

so i really hoped the "yi jing" would say something that it did me bad  (maybe in its way saying something about "danger"  etc)          -    now im not sure how should i read a yi jing result ?     i mean it changes to 11  which is a postive thing it seems   -  but i didnt ask about the future   - i didnt ask what i asked in the start about if i should return to it  -  cause if i would than i assume 11 would have been a clear answer  ... but i only asked about the condition up to now   -   so how i should read the change ?

also i got nine in the top which seems negative thing : 

Quote

 

Nine at the top means:

Cockcrow penetrating to heaven.
Perseverance brings misfortune.

The cock is dependable. It crows at dawn. But it cannot itself fly to heaven. It just crows. A man may count on mere words to awaken faith. This may succeed now and then, but if persisted in, it will have bad consequences.

 

 

so again dont know how to read it 

[waterdrop]

What im saying is  - how i should read the changing hexgram if im asking about the past up to now ?   -   and if it means in the past things were hexagram 61  and than they changed to 11  than it seems like a very postive change  - but reality is the opposite of that 

Edited November 16, 2020 by waterdrop

[Apech]

30 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

@Apech     -   thanks for the replies   ,     about your first post about my first one  -  seems by what taomeow wrote that my question was not good  -  and i seem to buy into what she wrote  ,  you dont agree with that and say its still relevant ?   

about the second divination   :

  -    i asked about it as sort of a test for the "Yi jing"   to be honest  and asked here also as a test (but mainly to understand ! just a tiny tiny bit a test)  for people here to see ........   cause truth is  im almost certain the stretching i did  harmed my health (that is why i stopped)    i have become less flexible and got pains

so i really hoped the "yi jing" would say something that it did me bad  (maybe in its way saying something about "danger"  etc)          -    now im not sure how should i read a yi jing result ?     i mean it changes to 11  which is a postive thing it seems   -  but i didnt ask about the future   - i didnt ask what i asked in the start about if i should return to it  -  cause if i would than i assume 11 would have been a clear answer  ... but i only asked about the condition up to now   -   so how i should read the change ?

also i got nine in the top which seems negative thing : 

 

so again dont know how to read it 

 

 

You did some stretching - then stopped - now you feel stiff and achey?  What do you expect?

 

 

[waterdrop]

Quote

You did some stretching - then stopped - now you feel stiff and achey?  What do you expect?

Not sure what you mean  - but in case i get your drift  and you mean i just tried once or twice and than got pain and stopped  : i didnt do stretching one time  .... i did in many different times during the years  ,  sometimes doing strong sometime  going really easy - like the last time where i did every time  a few second  every day  and didnt put any pressure at all almost  - very gentle  and still got pains and less flexible somehow   ,  and when im talking about pains i dont mean during the stretching but after the stretching  -  and i tried in  a few different ways to stretch   

BUT  i really dont want this to become a discussion about stretching , and peoples views about stretching  - but about what the "yi jing"  tells me about the effects of stretching on me   -   about what he said to me in the divination i did  and wrote above and in general about how i interpret the "yi jing results"      (i have many other questions - for example i got very strong back pain and i want to ask about a few different trainings i do not just stretching  - so really its a thread about yi jing and not really about stretching and focusing on it will just derail this thread) 

Edited November 16, 2020 by waterdrop

[Apech]

36 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

Not sure what you mean  - but in case i get your drift  and you mean i just tried once or twice and than got pain and stopped  : i didnt do stretching one time  .... i did in many different times during the years  ,  sometimes doing strong sometime  going really easy - like the last time where i did every time  a few second  every day  and didnt put any pressure at all almost  - very gentle  and still got pains and less flexible somehow   ,  and when im talking about pains i dont mean during the stretching but after the stretching  -  and i tried in  a few different ways to stretch   

BUT  i really dont want this to become a discussion about stretching , and peoples views about stretching  - but about what the "yi jing"  tells me about the effects of stretching on me   -   about what he said to me in the divination i did  and wrote above and in general about how i interpret the "yi jing results"      (i have many other questions - for example i got very strong back pain and i want to ask about a few different trainings i do not just stretching  - so really its a thread about yi jing and not really about stretching and focusing on it will just derail this thread) 

 

Have you been to a doctor about this?  If not you should.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Apech

[waterdrop]

Again that derails this thread which is about yi jing  - but just to not ignore your comment  -  i have been to pyshos and orthpedics but this isnt just about stretching  - and not what im asking about or want this thread to be about  - so please dont talk about it - it derails this thread and its very important for me this thread stays about the  YI JING  how to inteprt it and how to interpert the yi jing reply i got

i need to understand this for many aspects of my life  - not just stretching  but other issues physical but also about career , spiritual practice , relationship with people etc  ....   i asked about stretching in other places online  and about physical health in general  - i want this thread to be about YI jing  in general and also the results i got (61 11 27) and how to intepert this    -  so i dont want to get  stretching or health advice here  - just yi jing interpretations to help me understand the yi jing better

Edited November 16, 2020 by waterdrop

[Apech]

1 hour ago, waterdrop said:

Again that derails this thread which is about yi jing  - but just to not ignore your comment  -  i have been to pyshos and orthpedics but this isnt just about stretching  - and not what im asking about or want this thread to be about  - so please dont talk about it - it derails this thread and its very important for me this thread stays about the  YI JING  how to inteprt it and how to interpert the yi jing reply i got

i need to understand this for many aspects of my life  - not just stretching  but other issues physical but also about career , spiritual practice , relationship with people etc  ....   i asked about stretching in other places online  and about physical health in general  - i want this thread to be about YI jing  in general and also the results i got (61 11 27) and how to intepert this    -  so i dont want to get  stretching or health advice here  - just yi jing interpretations to help me understand the yi jing better

 

OK I hope you get the answers you want.

[doc benway]

On 11/15/2020 at 2:27 AM, waterdrop said:

@Taomeow  oh wow , thanks !  , i  made a question based on my understanding of damo mitchells guidance in his book  "white moon on the mountain peak"     and he says there clearly not to ask a yes or no question  -  and for some reason i thought my question was not one  - but now i see it clearly is a yes no question 
 
-  he gives example of two section questions   -  the example he gave is  "What is the state of my role as the head of an internal arts organization ?  am i fulfilling the role to the best of my ability ?" 

is there an option to ask a two section question about stretches ?    cause from what i understand from your reply  this are clear 3 different questions that shouldnt be combined in one divination  ? 

- also can i phrase the first one - instead of what you wrote  in 1 ask  :  "what is the impact on my health of the stretches I did up until now ? "     -  is that an ok question ?

 

I suspect Taomeow has more understanding and experience with Yijing than most, if not all, members here. Not sure what Mitchell’s Yijing credentials are, so no comment there. You could always try to communicate with him and see if he would help you personally.

 

If Taomeow made a suggestion to me on how to specifically phrase questions to the Yijing, I would do precisely that and then reach out to her directly with the result and see if she were willing to discuss further.

 

Just my $.02

[waterdrop]

@steve   Thanks  - damo mitchell is great about anyrthing daoist related , including yijing  and in fact i read somwhere he is already working on a book about the yijing   ,  but i dont want to bother him or damos group too much about the yijing which is not the main thing of that group 

Taomeow is great yes -  dont want to bother her with a PM  - but i did tag her  and another reply from her would be great .

about asking  - i dont ask the yijing in english but in my language and im not sure how to really translate "devine"  to it  , and also wanted the question to feel genuine to me so it can stick to my head better (which i understand is important as well)     but what i asked seems to me to be very close to what she suggested   -   but anyway that is why i wrote it here so taomeow will see  and if she thinks its a big difference than i will no doubt phrase it exactly like she wrote

Edited November 18, 2020 by waterdrop

[doc benway]

44 minutes ago, waterdrop said:

@steve   Thanks  - damo mitchell is great about anyrthing daoist related , including yijing  and in fact i read somwhere he is already working on a book about the yijing   ,  but i dont want to bother him or damos group too much about the yijing which is not the main thing of that group 

 

Very few have mastered all things Daoist.

Writing books and mastery are often two different things. My taiji master used to be very critical of people who wrote a lot of books or made a lot of films. He would say, how can they possibly have enough time to train?!

😆

 

I know little about Mitchell.

I know nothing about his Yijing studies and understanding. His push hands is pretty good, or at least was some years ago.

 

Quote

Taomeow is great yes -  dont want to bother her with a PM  - but i did tag her  .

about asking  - i dont ask the yijing in english but in my language and im not sure how to really translate "devine"  to it  , and also wanted the question to feel genuine to me so it can stick to my head better (which i understand is important as well)     but what i asked seems to me to be very close to what she suggested   -   but anyway that is why i wrote it here so taomeow will see  and if she thinks its a big difference than i will no doubt phrase it exactly like she wrote

 

Divine, as a verb comes from the old French word “deviner” which means to predict. It can also mean to uncover as in dowsing for water using a divining rod. In Yijing context I take it to mean something along the lines of discover, predict, or to see more clearly and would hold a feeling of “please help me to discover...” Take that with a grain of salt as I know very little about Yijing.

 

Good luck

[waterdrop]

If anyone else reads something for example i dont understand is  - how i read a changing of hexagram  - if i only asked on past effect ?

and if its past up to present  - than it seems there was a positive change from my results  (if i got it right cause 11 seems positive- so i base my understanding on that)     but de facto in reality i had a change for the worst  so it seems the yijing result i got was not good

[Harmen]

On 14-11-2020 at 10:14 PM, Taomeow said:

You may want to rephrase the questions.  The I Ching can't answer any yes/no questions, nor any either/or questions.  

 

That's not true. It can answer any question. Whether you are able to understand the answer is a different matter.

[Michael Sternbach]

1 hour ago, Harmen said:

 

That's not true. It can answer any question. Whether you are able to understand the answer is a different matter.

 

Yes indeed. Phrasing a question a certain way may facilitate interpretation of the Yijing's response. However, the answer will always be in there regardless.

[Michael Sternbach]

On 16.11.2020 at 7:35 PM, waterdrop said:

@Apech     -   thanks for the replies   ,     about your first post about my first one  -  seems by what taomeow wrote that my question was not good  -  and i seem to buy into what she wrote  ,  you dont agree with that and say its still relevant ?   

about the second divination   :

  -    i asked about it as sort of a test for the "Yi jing"   to be honest  and asked here also as a test (but mainly to understand ! just a tiny tiny bit a test)  for people here to see ........   cause truth is  im almost certain the stretching i did  harmed my health (that is why i stopped)    i have become less flexible and got pains

so i really hoped the "yi jing" would say something that it did me bad  (maybe in its way saying something about "danger"  etc)          -    now im not sure how should i read a yi jing result ?     i mean it changes to 11  which is a postive thing it seems   -  but i didnt ask about the future   - i didnt ask what i asked in the start about if i should return to it  -  cause if i would than i assume 11 would have been a clear answer  ... but i only asked about the condition up to now   -   so how i should read the change ?

also i got nine in the top which seems negative thing : 

 

so again dont know how to read it 

 

 

The Yijing typically reacts this way when we become too cheeky with it.

 

At the same time, it offers a perspective of finding peace of mind with what has happened.

[waterdrop]

2 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

The Yijing typically reacts this way when we become too cheeky with it.

what way exactly you mean ? 

[silent thunder]

I'm not answering for Michael, but I've experienced these types of cheeky answers.

 

There was a time when I, or friends I did readings for, were asking for insights and received answers that seemed unintelligible and or odd.

 

Particularly it seemed to occur when i, or another, consulted the runes too often, or asked the animals for insight into something insipid, or frivolous... (or something we already knew the answer to), the answer often reflected the 'cheekiness'/frivolity of the question and came back as non-sensical, or comical.

Edited November 23, 2020 by silent thunder
clarify

[Apech]

42 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

I'm not answering for Michael, but I've experienced these types of cheeky answers.

 

There was a time when I, or friends I did readings for, were asking for insights and received answers that seemed unintelligible and or odd.

 

Particularly it seemed to occur when i, or another, consulted the runes too often, or asked the animals for insight into something insipid, or frivolous... (or something we already knew the answer to), the answer often reflected the 'cheekiness'/frivolity of the question and came back as non-sensical, or comical.

 

It's not so much cheekiness as the premise of the question being wrong.

[Taomeow]

8 hours ago, Harmen said:

 

That's not true. It can answer any question. Whether you are able to understand the answer is a different matter.

 

Hmmm...   Semantics much.  

It can answer "any" question if you ask it correctly.  Whether you are able to ask it correctly is a different matter.

 

Is last Friday faster and more syphilis enabled than a purple wolf from the library of Alexandria's grand piano?  Yes or no?

 

 

Edited November 23, 2020 by Taomeow

[Harmen]

1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

 

Hmmm...   Semantics much.  

It can answer "any" question if you ask it correctly.  Whether you are able to ask it correctly is a different matter.

 

Is last Friday faster and more syphilis enabled than a purple wolf from the library of Alexandria's grand piano?  Yes or no?

 

In any event, next time I have a chance, I'll be sure to ask the President of Singapore to fire her I Ching diviner who told me what I told you, and hire you instead.  Too bad we can't also fire the Duke of Zhou, Confucius, the whole bunch of Eranos I Ching scholars and so on -- they told me the same thing, but it's too late to demand they repent for telling me what's not true.  Let's fire tao while at it too, she does not communicate in "yes/no" -- yin and yang are not "yes" and "no."  Why not.  If you know better, I'll learn from you, venerable master.  Just whistle.  

 

I appreciate your sarcasm. Just look at old examples of Yi usage, and oracles in general. Examine the oracle bones, and divination journals like the Baoshan manuscripts. You will see that there were no questions asked - the diviner stated a wish, or affirmation if you like. I don't know any (early Chinese) sources that show that the question or its phrasing was considered important. When in later times questions were asked (especially with the Wenwang Gua method), they were often phrased as yes/no questions. And no one ever objected to that. Saying that the Yi does not answer yes/no questions seems to be a typical Western attitude that is not backed up by early Chinese sources. Even Zhu Xi, in the incantation and rules that he gives in his Zhouyi Benyi, does not say anything about (the importance of) the question.