Interesting correlation between God and light in major world religions

[Michael Sternbach]

Here's a lovely old image showing the cosmos in the view of the ancients...

 

Geocentric alright, but timelessly valid from a relativistic perspective!

 

[silent thunder]

The Tao of Physics by Fritjoff Capra adroitly details many of the shared, harmonic and resonant realizations of modern quantum physics and ancient (particularly Eastern) philosophies and cosmology.

 

But the reflection of the shared visions and inherently mirrored realizations of high accomplishment of seemingly diametrically opposed fields of theoretical physics and eastern spirituality is perhaps best exemplified for me through the 25 year collaborative work of David Bohm and J Krishnamurti. 

 

Bohm, an American physicist who was ostracized by Einstein and Oppenheimer and who was literally chased out of the American Scientific community and whose subsequent work was actively suppressed from being taken seriously by the ruling elite of Quantum Science of his day... in his exile happened to read and then actively seek out and meet Krishnamurti. 

 

It is said that when the two sat to meet they struck a chord of immediate resonance and deep shared understanding, but at one point Krishnamurti, hearing Bohm's descriptions of perception and reality stood and exclaimed "At last!  Someone who sees!"

 

They forged a deep friendship and bond and worked in resonance together for many years after this, each from their respective perspectives, yet always in a harmonic, complimentary collaboration, to the benefit of anyone who happens on their sharings... (in my opinion).

 

Their relationship reminds me of Niels Bohr's coat of arms quote "Contraria sunt complementa"  Opposites are complimentary. 

 

Quote

My first acquaintance with Krishnamurti’s work was in 1959 when I read his book The First and Last Freedom. What particularly aroused my interest was his deep insight into the question of the observer and the observed. This question had long been close to the centre of my own work, as a theoretical physicist, who was primarily interested in the meaning of the quantum theory. In this theory, for the first time in the development of physics, the notion that these two cannot be separated has been put forth as necessary for the understanding of the fundamental laws of matter in general.

 

Because of this, as well as because the book contained many other deep insights I felt that it was urgent for me to talk with Krishnamurti directly and personally as soon as possible. And when I first met him on one of his visits to London, I was struck by the great ease of communication with him, which was made possible by the intense energy with which he listened and by the freedom from self-protective reservations and barriers with which he responded to what I had to say.

David Bohm's introduction to J Krishnamurti

 

About Bohm and Krishnamurti

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by silent thunder
fixed links

[Michael Sternbach]

An image of the atom in the view of modern quantum physics:

 

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

It's actually better represented by spheres within spheres.

 

Here is a neat example as regards planet Earth...

 

https://earthhow.com/spheres-of-earth/

 

 

 

OOoo ... goodies to read later - thanks

 

 

 

 

 

[thelerner]

The metaphysical question that been bugging me for years has to do with the Golden Flower practice.  It's heart and goal is to Turn the Light around. 

I'll spend time thinking Light = awareness, and it's going for a deep state of inner reflection, laying bare the flimsiness of egoic construct.  Other times I think it's literal, in your mind's eye LIGHT turns around, and you see/enveloped by it.  Or its a combination of the two, Or something else entirely..

[manitou]

17 minutes ago, thelerner said:

It's heart and goal is to Turn the Light around. 

 

 

Is there another way of saying this?  Turning all the way around?  Or 180 degrees?  Is this the light that is finally revealed upon self realization? 

 

As you say, maybe ego and identity are dissolving?  But I don't see the connection to light specifically in that.  Oh.  Wait.  Yes I do.  Where ego and our personal identities meet - that would be very dense.  If it is dissolved, the light would be seen.

 

But why 'turn'?  Do you turn left or right?  A U-ey?  From darkness to light?  But alas, the light would be faster than the turn so that eliminates that line of thinking.

 

Aah.  I think I have it.  When you become capable of seeing the divine in another (an enlightened one), you should turn your focus inward and realize that you too are one.  If you weren't you wouldn't recognize it.

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by manitou
To add the last bit.

[Bindi]

2 hours ago, thelerner said:

The metaphysical question that been bugging me for years has to do with the Golden Flower practice.  It's heart and goal is to Turn the Light around. 

I'll spend time thinking Light = awareness, and it's going for a deep state of inner reflection, laying bare the flimsiness of egoic construct.  Other times I think it's literal, in your mind's eye LIGHT turns around, and you see/enveloped by it.  Or its a combination of the two, Or something else entirely..

I see it as your first option, “Light = awareness, and it's going for a deep state of inner reflection” - but a deep and subtle actual shift where awareness prefers to rest in inner awareness than external awareness, because the inner is valued at least as much if not more than the external. In effect instead of us being centred in external awareness and visiting inner awareness, we become centred in inner awareness and become visitors to external awareness. 
 

 

[manitou]

19 hours ago, Bindi said:

deep and subtle actual shift where awareness prefers to rest in inner awareness than external awareness,

 

 

I think this is excellent, Bindi.  The further in you go, the more subtle the tweaks.  And awareness at some point does turn inward and you sense that you are something much bigger.  It's near impossible to put into words, but you did it.  I'm often reminded of the DDJ where it acknowledges the two different types of awarenesses - to get entrenched within the stream of life, or to opt for elevating up out of the stream and seeing the situation as part of the whole package.  I think that when someone gets to the place where they can opt in or out of the life stream, this is when a lot of anxiety is erased.  We see it for the show that it is.

[old3bob]

21 hours ago, Bindi said:

I see it as your first option, “Light = awareness, and it's going for a deep state of inner reflection” - but a deep and subtle actual shift where awareness prefers to rest in inner awareness than external awareness, because the inner is valued at least as much if not more than the external. In effect instead of us being centred in external awareness and visiting inner awareness, we become centred in inner awareness and become visitors to external awareness. 
 

 

 

 just dropped in to "visit" what condition my condition was in...

 

[old3bob]

On 11/16/2020 at 3:42 AM, Ajay0 said:

 

Hi all,

 

I have come across some observations which depict an interesting correlation between God and light in the major world religions....

In Hinduism, the Vedas and Hindu scriptures considers the Shivalingam as representing a cosmic pillar of light. The Dharmic monotheistic sect the Prajapita Brahmakumaris consider God to be an incorporeal point of light.

The Upanishads and enlightened masters have also described Spirit or Brahman to be self-luminous.

Teachings of the Dharmic religion Sikhism also reveal God to be self-luminous. (Amongst all is the Light-You are that Light. (13-5, DnwsrI, m 1 ) )




Similarly, the Abrahamic religions also associate God with light.


In Islam, Allah has 100 name's, and one of them is Alnoor ( the Light).

“God is light,” says 1 John 1:5, in the Bible in Christianity.

In Judaism, Psalm 76:4 says of God, “You are radiant with light.”

In the Bahai religion, it is stated thus, "This is the Day whereon naught can be seen except the splendors of the Light that shineth from the face of Thy Lord, the Gracious, the Most Bountiful."(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 29)

So this correlation between God and light, is a common denominator in these Dharmic and Abrahamic major world religions.

Imo, the fire worship in Zoroastrianism may be illustrating this correlation between God (Ahura Mazda ) and light as well, light being emitted by the fire.

I would say this may provide more proof that the major world religions are identical in their core, with only superficial differences on the outside creating cause for extremism and conflict. If you find any further proofs or evidences in this regard, please do share it here.

Thanking in advance.

 

the core scriptures or points of most major religions do not leave any or much lee-way for other religions, although I'd say Hinduism and Taoism in general are the most scripturally tolerant of any.  Otherwise with (or because of ) certain core scriptural points most major religions can never be reconciled with each other even though light is mentioned or common among them. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by old3bob

[Michael Sternbach]

11 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

the core scriptures or points of most major religions do not leave any or much lee-way for other religions, although I'd say Hinduism and Taoism in general are the most scripturally tolerant of any.  Otherwise with (or because of ) certain core scriptural points most major religions can never be reconciled with each other even though light is mentioned or common among them. 

 

Old3bob,

 

With all respect, this is so not true.

 

From my perspective, all major religions provide valid outlooks on the one metaphysical reality that is actually there, even though emphasis on this or that aspect may indeed vary from one system to another.

 

But relating their 'esoteric' core teachings to each other, common ground can be established quite easily, while sociocultural differences may veil this fact on more external layers.

 

Understanding of the essential unity of all religions by a majority of people will hopefully one day reveal the utter foolishness of religious wars and render the latter obsolete for good.

[old3bob]

9 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

Old3bob,

 

With all respect, this is so not true.

 

From my perspective, all major religions provide valid outlooks on the one metaphysical reality that is actually there, even though emphasis on this or that aspect may indeed vary from one system to another.

 

But relating their 'esoteric' core teachings to each other, common ground can be established quite easily, while sociocultural differences may veil this fact on more external layers.

 

Understanding of the essential unity of all religions by a majority of people will hopefully one day reveal the utter foolishness of religious wars and render the latter obsolete for good.

 

Hey Michael,  Note, I did not say anything about "esoteric core teachings" or mention that context thus it sounds like you have misinterpreted my point?   I said scriptural teachings (meaning text) several times and certain of those (at that level) can never be bridged and or made equal in their context or content.   Btw. I've studied a lot of "esoteric" stuff so I think I know what you are trying to say but again such was not the context of my post that you are bringing up.  Also  I'd say we need to recognize that millions upon millions or billions of people will never except certain esoteric  correlations that go against their "only way".

Edited December 3, 2020 by old3bob

[Michael Sternbach]

On 03/12/2020 at 12:22 PM, old3bob said:

 

Hey Michael,  Note, I did not say anything about "esoteric core teachings" or mention that context thus it sounds like you have misinterpreted my point?   I said scriptural teachings (meaning text) several times and certain of those (at that level) can never be bridged and or made equal in their context or content.   Btw. I've studied a lot of "esoteric" stuff so I think I know what you are trying to say but again such was not the context of my post that you are bringing up.  Also  I'd say we need to recognize that millions upon millions or billions of people will never except certain esoteric  correlations that go against their "only way".

 

That sounds fair enough.

 

The question remains if there can ever be peace over religious matters as long as there are so many people thinking of their particular religion as exclusive truth.

 

Anyway... Thanks for the clarification.

[old3bob]

On 12/4/2020 at 6:57 AM, Michael Sternbach said:

 

That sounds fair enough.

 

The question remains if there can ever be peace over religious matters as long as there are so many people thinking of their particular religion as exclusive truth.

 

Anyway... Thanks for the clarification.

 

well there are lots of particulars, exclusives and vested interests in various "esoteric" schools also...so it looks like about the best we can do on earth "is live and let live".   (thus hold  to not tripping each other up and  just going our own way, ....along with "new ager" types not trying to assign everybody to some kind of spiritual smorgasbord,  since such a philosophy really only applies to the common ground and needs that all human beings share, namely water, food, shelter, clothing, utilities, families, decent livelihoods and sustainable environments  that would hopefully include respectful recognition of our differences and not infringe on each others personal beliefs or practices)

,  

Edited December 5, 2020 by old3bob

[manitou]

On 12/4/2020 at 5:57 AM, Michael Sternbach said:

 

That sounds fair enough.

 

The question remains if there can ever be peace over religious matters as long as there are so many people thinking of their particular religion as exclusive truth.

 

Anyway... Thanks for the clarification.

 

 

And ironically if they follow their religion and end up transcending the dogma, they all end up together.  Folks who refuse to believe that another's path is as viable as theirs, they are cutting off their own progress.  At some point humility must be found, and at that point true peace would be realized, when we realize the oneness of all paths.

[old3bob]

I'd say that the concept of oneness of all paths is a "new age"  gloss-over that only works with the common ground needs of human beings, (which are mostly under one roof)  Anyway there are the obvious exoteric and esoteric facts that all paths are not one and do not lead to the same goal or destination.  For instance the end goal of Christianity leads to a Christian heaven with Jesus and God the Father.  (thus in a universe, of subtle or gross realities, that accommodates such differences)

Edited December 5, 2020 by old3bob

[Michael Sternbach]

3 minutes ago, old3bob said:

I'd say that the concept of oneness of all paths is a "new age"  gloss-over that only works with the common ground needs of human beings, (which are mostly under one roof)  Anyway there are the obvious exoteric and esoteric facts that all paths are not one and do not lead to the same goal or destination.  For instance the end goal of Christianity leads to a Christian heaven with Jesus and God the Father.

 

Which in my view is nothing but archetypal symbolism. Other religions may use their own symbols in reference to identical existential states and facts. Often only sophisticated metaphysical interpretation will reveal this, though.

 

Please note, I am talking about metaphysics of the comparative and unifying kind here... Not about "esoteric" views dogmatically held by this or that cult.

[Bindi]

Perhaps the most unifying feature of all religions and paths is the underlying problems that they are trying to solve. I would suggest these problems are either unhappiness, or fear of the void within, but starting with the same problems all paths then take different routes in trying to solve these ubiquitous problems, which they manage to a greater or lesser degree depending on which path is followed. 

[old3bob]

1 hour ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

Which in my view is nothing but archetypal symbolism. Other religions may use their own symbols in reference to identical existential states and facts. Often only sophisticated metaphysical interpretation will reveal this, though.

 

Please note, I am talking about metaphysics of the comparative and unifying kind here... Not about "esoteric" views dogmatically held by this or that cult.

 

neither was I,  thus not of symbolism, cults or on the material plane but on the soul plane in various realms of light with those realms and souls not all being on the same page,  thus  Christians,  pure land Buddhists, Tibetan Buddhists, (etc.) native or Shamans, a great many Hindu schools,  Taoist schools, Muslims, Shinto, Egyptians, Mystery schools,  etc., etc. with a universe big enough to hold them all.

Edited December 5, 2020 by old3bob

[Bindi]

 

1 hour ago, old3bob said:

I'd say that the concept of oneness of all paths is a "new age"  gloss-over that only works with the common ground needs of human beings, (which are mostly under one roof)  Anyway there are the obvious exoteric and esoteric facts that all paths are not one and do not lead to the same goal or destination.  For instance the end goal of Christianity leads to a Christian heaven with Jesus and God the Father.  (thus in a universe, of subtle or gross realities, that accommodates such differences)

different goals such as coming to realise that there is no self, vs producing the elixir of life within, vs becoming one with Jesus/God - I agree with you the differences are deep and quite frankly insurmountable, and the Path that is followed leads to entirely different outcomes. 
 

 

 

 

 

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Bindi said:

 

different goals such as coming to realise that there is no self, vs producing the elixir of life within, vs becoming one with Jesus/God - I agree with you the differences are deep and quite frankly insurmountable, and the Path that is followed leads to entirely different outcomes. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

realising that there is no-self is not really a goal (of Buddhism) ... producing the elixir as I understand it is a prerequisite to achieving immortality (which is a goal) , Unity with God might be a goal but then so is 'eternal life in Jesus' = immortality.  Don't you think?

 

 

[Bindi]

40 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

realising that there is no-self is not really a goal (of Buddhism) ... producing the elixir as I understand it is a prerequisite to achieving immortality (which is a goal) , Unity with God might be a goal but then so is 'eternal life in Jesus' = immortality.  Don't you think?

 

 

What would be the goal of Buddhism?  
 

How is ‘eternal life in Jesus’ to be understood? I think Christians are after an eternal afterlife in the presence of God rather than immortality as conceived of by the alchemists, which may be longevity, return to youth, spiritual immortality or actual immortality depending on their view. 

[Paradoxal]

8 hours ago, old3bob said:

I'd say that the concept of oneness of all paths is a "new age"  gloss-over that only works with the common ground needs of human beings, (which are mostly under one roof)  Anyway there are the obvious exoteric and esoteric facts that all paths are not one and do not lead to the same goal or destination.  For instance the end goal of Christianity leads to a Christian heaven with Jesus and God the Father.  (thus in a universe, of subtle or gross realities, that accommodates such differences)

 

All rivers lead to the ocean. One river may start on a mountain, another in a forest, and yet another may begin in a rocky desert, but all of them will lead to a single ocean if followed for long enough. If one cannot see the ocean from a river, perhaps it has not been followed thoroughly enough?

[Bindi]

Except... A river is a natural flowing watercourse, usually freshwater, flowing towards an ocean, sea, lake or another river. In some cases a river flows into the ground and becomes dry at the end of its course without reaching another body of water. (Wikipedia)

[Apech]

9 hours ago, Bindi said:

What would be the goal of Buddhism?  
 

 

It varies depending of which school of buddhism you are talking about.

 

9 hours ago, Bindi said:

How is ‘eternal life in Jesus’ to be understood? I think Christians are after an eternal afterlife in the presence of God rather than immortality as conceived of by the alchemists, which may be longevity, return to youth, spiritual immortality or actual immortality depending on their view. 

 

https://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/media/articles/lifeeverlastingameneternallifeaccordingtotheapostlescreed/