After Self-realization, what else needs to be done?

[sagebrush]

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Edited November 27, 2020 by sagebrush

[Sketch]

That is a semantic distinction I have heard from numerous musicians over the years.

For "Practice" read "Praxis".

Edited November 27, 2020 by Sketch

[sagebrush]

no I think you said sophistry

 

please put that back in your mouth

 

shostakovich just happens to translate

 

I have to study the bible now.

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by sagebrush

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, Tesla3 said:

I don't know as much about Buddhism.  

 

Throughout the suttas it always shows the Buddha meditating frequently and I've often wondered why if he had nothing left to do.

[Mithras]

Well personally I think meditating is a relaxing thing to do/a habit. It doesn’t really have to do be done to gain quietude or anything like that, it can be treated the same as a nap

[welkin]

10 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

why or why not, to help beings

 

Agreed. That's the learned understanding i have, but there's no way of proving that other than the stories and explanations the supposed ascended ones give.

 

An idea did occur to me recently however. The possibility that self realization is but a mere step in the process of truly ascending. Maybe there is no true ascension by one's self, but needs to be done as a majorative collective in this realm. Just an idea. I'm more inclined that supposed ascended ones never stopped coming back and never had the choice.

[Apech]

@dwai and everyone,

 

I've read some of the previous posts but not all of them.  So sorry if I'm repeating.  To reply to the OP:

 

I think you're fundamentally wrong if I understand what you are saying.  Or perhaps I should say that I understand things in a different way.  This is based on my own researches and thoughts and not any particular system (though I draw on my Egyptian researches a little).

 

I suppose I could say that seeing your true nature and fully realising it are not the same thing.  Most mysticism talks of the first and for most of us this is the goal.  But seeing one's true nature still has a tinge, an element of dualism.  So on the path we first have to see - in order to travel so to speak.  In some literature seeing one's true nature and realising it completely are confused - this is because the first is a major accomplishment and it is hard for us to imagine past it.  But the fact is, right from the start we are working with both awareness and energy/substance.  The dawning of pure awareness is the end of the path of seeing - but by then at least we have pacified, regulated and transformed the subtle body enough to have clear vision.  But this does not mean we are beamed up to some higher existence.  In fact we are only part way through an alchemical process and we still have life, in a body, in a place, with particular relationships and so on.  This is not an accident.

 

The formation of the rainbow or diamond body, the body of light/energy, the logos body is when you have truly aligned, integrated and realised the non-dual nature of awareness and energy/substance, completely and indestructibly.

 

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by Apech

[silent thunder]

1 hour ago, dmattwads said:

 

Throughout the suttas it always shows the Buddha meditating frequently and I've often wondered why if he had nothing left to do.

 

43 minutes ago, Mithras said:

Well personally I think meditating is a relaxing thing to do/a habit. It doesn’t really have to do be done to gain quietude or anything like that, it can be treated the same as a nap

Reminds me of the thought I had pondering a Buddha sitting.

 

Do the Awakened sit to achieve something?

 

or do the Awakened simply sit, while awake?

[Mithras]

I'm unsure, all I know that it looks like I'm lounging more than meditating when I do meditate. Not a big fan of stuff like Lotus pose since I don't see much point in it anymore and would rather just relax and be lazy lol

[Limahong]

3 minutes ago, Mithras said:

I'm unsure, all I know that it looks like I'm lounging more than meditating when I do meditate. Not a big fan of stuff like Lotus pose since I don't see much point in it anymore and would rather just relax and be lazy lol

 

RELAXING LAZE. 

Nothing to ablaze. 

 

[Maddie]

Sometimes I wonder what Jesus' level of realization was. He had some interesting things to say that sometimes sound very similar to the Buddha or the TDJ but I don't know if I ever get the same "ah ha" factor from him though.

[Mithras]

Yeah a lot of these figures seem like sages: Jesus, Muhammad, etc

 

and they all either say similar stuff or at least act similarly

[Limahong]

12 minutes ago, Mithras said:

Yeah a lot of these figures seem like sages: Jesus, Muhammad, etc

 

They've been sages for ~ ages. 

New Age ~ U&I take the stage?

 

[Maddie]

19 minutes ago, Mithras said:

Yeah a lot of these figures seem like sages: Jesus, Muhammad, etc

 

and they all either say similar stuff or at least act similarly

 

Buddhism claims to be the only path to total enlightenment. Either it's true or it's another religion that claims to be the only way?

[Mithras]

I think the only way stuff is usually bs and perhaps the sign of Buddhism degrading as it becomes a popularized faith. The general story of self realization has to do with the self, the person. Not with some sutra or some philosophy; nor does some sutra or philosophy unlock the self. It can help but it’s not needed at all.

[helpfuldemon]

Enlightenment is usually already reached for people of a certain age, to whatever degree they can achieve it of themselves.  What isn't done yet is understanding another person, or the functions of the world and its ways.  So much of what we do is a combat between one who knows of themselves and one who knows of themselves, with a lot of activity in between about things we know little to nothing about, and have no control over.

[liminal_luke]

2 hours ago, silent thunder said:

 

Do the Awakened sit to achieve something?

 

 

One of my goals is to be without goals.  That probably sounds like word play and it is, but it´s also true.  Years ago, a naturopath asked me to come up with a sort of north star directive for my life, and I said I wanted to be unquestioningly accepting of myself, like a rock.  Rocks are refreshingly free of neurotic inner conflicts and existential anxieties.  They just are.  They´re not trying to be anything else but that (at least as far as I know).  Sounds nice.  

Edited November 28, 2020 by liminal_luke

[doc benway]

1 hour ago, dmattwads said:

Sometimes I wonder what Jesus' level of realization was. He had some interesting things to say that sometimes sound very similar to the Buddha or the TDJ but I don't know if I ever get the same "ah ha" factor from him though.

I’ve been reading some of Thomas and a Kingdom of God for Buddha Nature reading is certainly effortless and consistent.

[doc benway]

4 hours ago, dwai said:

Once we  learn the alphabet, do we still do “ a for Apple, b for ball”? 

 

And that learning is nothing more than a habit, a reflex. We let go of those learned reflexes as well... 

A....    .....   ....   Phet!

 

😆

[doc benway]

22 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

One of my goals is to be without goals.  That probably sounds like word play and it is, but it´s also true.

 

When the goal or any effort is there, look directly at who is looking to accomplish something. Not word play at all.

Cut right through and rest.

 

Aaaaaaaahhh

 

Phet!

 

Quote

  Years ago, a naturopath asked me to come up with a sort of north star directive for my life, and I said I wanted to be unquestioningly accepting of myself, like a rock.  Rocks are refreshingly free of neurotic inner conflicts and existential anxieties.  They just are.  They´re not trying to be anything else but that (at least as far as I know).  Sounds nice.  

 

Spaciousness is the ultimate rock

 

(ewww, sorry)

🤣

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, dmattwads said:

Sometimes I wonder what Jesus' level of realization was. He had some interesting things to say that sometimes sound very similar to the Buddha or the TDJ but I don't know if I ever get the same "ah ha" factor from him though.

 

No its more of a ;

 

< slaps forehead  >   " Oi VEY !   Why did I not think of this before ! "    < exaggerated shrug >

 

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

 

One of my goals is to be without goals.  That probably sounds like word play and it is, but it´s also true.  Years ago, a naturopath asked me to come up with a sort of north star directive for my life, and I said I wanted to be unquestioningly accepting of myself, like a rock.  Rocks are refreshingly free of neurotic inner conflicts and existential anxieties.  They just are.  They´re not trying to be anything else but that (at least as far as I know).  Sounds nice.  

 

 

 

[silent thunder]

6 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

 

 

I love this film.

Edited November 28, 2020 by silent thunder

[dwai]

19 hours ago, Apech said:

@dwai and everyone,

 

I've read some of the previous posts but not all of them.  So sorry if I'm repeating.  To reply to the OP:

 

I think you're fundamentally wrong if I understand what you are saying.  Or perhaps I should say that I understand things in a different way.  This is based on my own researches and thoughts and not any particular system (though I draw on my Egyptian researches a little).

 

I suppose I could say that seeing your true nature and fully realising it are not the same thing. 

Seeing vs realizing. You mean like “intellectually knowing” Vs. “realizing”? I thought I made it clear in the OP that I mean realization. It’s like this — you’ve been told that you’re something — let’s say a white British guy. But you didn’t know about it prior to that, because you grew up in a neighborhood of Italians, and you even adopted their mannerisms, habits, etc. After you found out, you knew, but didn’t beleive. But then you looked in the mirror, you went over your family tree and realized you were British all along.
 

Self realization is along similar lines — when you realize your true nature, it is no longer “seeing”, “knowing intellectually” or even “understanding”. 

Quote

 

Most mysticism talks of the first and for most of us this is the goal.  But seeing one's true nature still has a tinge, an element of dualism.  So on the path we first have to see - in order to travel so to speak.  In some literature seeing one's true nature and realising it completely are confused - this is because the first is a major accomplishment and it is hard for us to imagine past it.  But the fact is, right from the start we are working with both awareness and energy/substance.  The dawning of pure awareness is the end of the path of seeing - but by then at least we have pacified, regulated and transformed the subtle body enough to have clear vision.  But this does not mean we are beamed up to some higher existence.  In fact we are only part way through an alchemical process and we still have life, in a body, in a place, with particular relationships and so on.  This is not an accident.

 

we tend to ascribe that to karma. Now that’s a very complex topic of discussion. Self is direct and simple. 

Quote

 

The formation of the rainbow or diamond body, the body of light/energy, the logos body is when you have truly aligned, integrated and realised the non-dual nature of awareness and energy/substance, completely and indestructibly.

 

 

I disagree  

There is nothing else needed to be done or realized or converted once Self realization occurs. There are still things that (can) happen to the body-mind-personality in terms of dropping of karmic tendencies. Or not. It doesn’t matter once the body is  dropped. 

[Apech]

8 minutes ago, dwai said:

Seeing vs realizing. You mean like “intellectually knowing” Vs. “realizing”? I thought I made it clear in the OP that I mean realization. It’s like this — you’ve been told that you’re something — let’s say a white British guy. But you didn’t know about it prior to that, because you grew up in a neighborhood of Italians, and you even adopted their mannerisms, habits, etc. After you found out, you knew, but didn’t beleive. But then you looked in the mirror, you went over your family tree and realized you were British all along.
 

Self realization is along similar lines — when you realize your true nature, it is no longer “seeing”, “knowing intellectually” or even “understanding”. 

 

we tend to ascribe that to karma. Now that’s a very complex topic of discussion. Self is direct and simple. 

I disagree  

There is nothing else needed to be done or realized or converted once Self realization occurs. There are still things that (can) happen to the body-mind-personality in terms of dropping of karmic tendencies. Or not. It doesn’t matter once the body is  dropped. 

 

No - nothing I said is about intellectually knowing - that doesn't even feature in what I was referring to and is just a preliminary.

 

Well, we'll have to disagree   there is an alchemical process, what you are calling realization is a stopping off point, an important one , but not the goal.