Cultivation side effects

[Maddie]

I've come to realize that I react very adversely to meditation and some other cultivation methods. So much so that about half a year ago I had to abandon meditation. It would affect me very negatively emotionally. 

 Has anyone else experienced anything similar?

[idiot_stimpy]

Your emotions are stored like a pressure cooker, stores pressure. When you meditate, the pressure release valve is opened and steam starts to spray out. 

 

Not only do negative emotions start to surface but also past traumatic memories. Work through them and make peace with them. 

 

The released steam can throw you off balance emotionally if you are not careful. This is why metal and emotional balance is needed when dealing with this escaping steam. 

[Maddie]

36 minutes ago, idiot_stimpy said:

Your emotions are stored like a pressure cooker, stores pressure. When you meditate, the pressure release valve is opened and steam starts to spray out. 

 

Not only do negative emotions start to surface but also past traumatic memories. Work through them and make peace with them. 

 

The released steam can throw you off balance emotionally if you are not careful. This is why metal and emotional balance is needed when dealing with this escaping steam. 

 

Yes unfortunately there has been a fair amount of trauma in my younger years. When researching this issue with meditation I found that a small percentage of people usually with trauma in their past can actually trigger anxiety by becoming very relaxed. It's called relaxation induced anxiety.

 I've even found that doing a lot of dynamic practices such as zhunti mantra a lot can make me feel very bad.

[Desmonddf]

1 hour ago, dmattwads said:

I've come to realize that I react very adversely to meditation and some other cultivation methods. So much so that about half a year ago I had to abandon meditation. It would affect me very negatively emotionally. 

 Has anyone else experienced anything similar?

 

I've done qigong wrongly in the past and it facked up my energetic system. Luckly I've stopped before things get really serious.

 

Meditation is the same - if you do the practice wrongly, at beast nothing will happen, at worst you're going to screw your own head and emotions.

That said, it can also have really "problematic side-effects" if you do it right - after all, it is a practice meant for releasing oneself from mundanity and achieving new levels of consciousness. This will make you almost an "alien" to people and the world around you, destroy and rebuild your ego and psiche and rework your entire existence.

 

There's a reason why asian monks and priests meditate, but not common folk

 

Effectively reaching new and new highs in meditation will make you go through your own "inner hell" and back multiple times. This process can lead to serious depression, awakening of psichosys if you're prone to it, development of mediunic skills, awakening of many kinds of spiritual inner tools and so on - things that a regular, uninstructed person will most likely be unable to use and shoot themselves at the foot with them.

 

So, yeah, spiritual practices can do a hell of a storm on your life. That's the basys of the saying "wisdom and insanity wake side by side". Inner experiences are powerful and may change you in ways you cannot imagine without them. So you must be very careful (and optimaly have a guru, master or other form of senior to guide you), or suffer the consequences.

[RiverSnake]

All kinds of obstacles can rear there heads along the path. Smashing the, "Do More Meditation" button, is not always the best choice. 

[Maddie]

13 minutes ago, RiverSnake said:

All kinds of obstacles can rear there heads along the path. Smashing the, "Do More Meditation" button, is not always the best choice. 

 

Yes I agree. Unfortunately for years I was told even by monks that smashing the do more meditation button was the answer until I decided that it was not and stopped.

[Mithras]

I agree with riversnake on the button smashing thing. It isn’t always the best to force meditation, as forcing change often gives the wrong kind of change. Better to take it slowly and let the solutions come out. Taking this approach, more often than not, actually speeds things up.

[Mithras]

7 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

Yes I agree. Unfortunately for years I was told even by monks that smashing the do more meditation button was the answer until I decided that it was not and stopped.

That is unfortunate. I hope meditation isn’t painful or awkward for you now.

 

Ive had a similar situation happen for me where the idea of preserving jing really stuck on for me, even when I moved away from energy cultivation. It created a really negative bias around me and made me generally gloomy. Till after much repetition and waiting it’s whittled away.

 

Now don’t get me wrong, energy work is great, but rules aren’t for everyone and I think all the rules and scriptures can actually add on baggage from time to time. So I personally emphasize that Its important to listen to our hearts and follow what we want/find ourselves drifting towards.

Edited November 28, 2020 by Mithras

[RiverSnake]

3 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

Yes I agree. Unfortunately for years I was told even by monks that smashing the do more meditation button was the answer until I decided that it was not and stopped.

 

Monks and other practitioners are not necessarily skilled healers.....so if they've not experienced certain situations, they may have blind spots. 

[Mithras]

3 minutes ago, RiverSnake said:

 

Monks and other practitioners are not necessarily skilled healers.....so if they've not experienced certain situations, they may have blind spots. 

Maybe it has to do with a reliance on saturation for a lot of practitioners? I myself relied on this a lot and I know a lot of other practices do too. Anyways, there tends to be that idea that once you figure out the main spiritual stuff then you can fix stuff that’s closer to you. Which can be nice but it makes the whole process into bit of a speed run to awakening. Not always fun and I can definitely say I had to (and still have to) do a lot of repairs afterwards.

[RiverSnake]

36 minutes ago, Mithras said:

Maybe it has to do with a reliance on saturation for a lot of practitioners? I myself relied on this a lot and I know a lot of other practices do too. Anyways, there tends to be that idea that once you figure out the main spiritual stuff then you can fix stuff that’s closer to you. Which can be nice but it makes the whole process into bit of a speed run to awakening. Not always fun and I can definitely say I had to (and still have to) do a lot of repairs afterwards.

 

When all you have is a hammer....everything can start to look like a nail. Knowledge of what to do in these situations is not something you can just crack open a book and read up on. 

 

Different methods create different kinds of practitioners. An exploratory impulse, is not something that is often encouraged in many lineages. 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by RiverSnake

[Lazgrane]

It's a chance for you to permanently cast off your trauma and achieve inner peace.

 

Just saying.

Edited November 28, 2020 by Lazgrane

[Paradoxal]

I spend most of my training time on seated practices, at least, at this point. Around 4-6 hours a day are spent on "meditative" practices, including ones meant to refine internal energy. I've gotten tremendous gains from it, in fact, I would say that my combat and mental capacity grows multiple factors faster via seated practice than via standing or moving practice. That said, I still do standing and moving practice. If I were to only sit, it would make me sick due to inbalance. 

 

I have also made myself sick through forcing inappropriate seated practices, so I will vouch that if it doesn't feel right, then you should probably consider taking a break. I think that this topic would count under "Dragon Sickness", though, I am not well-read enough to tell for sure. What I have found, despite my negative experiences, is that as long as you keep proper precautions in place, seated practice can be massively helpful. "Can be", being the key phrase here. If your body, mind, and energy system are not ready for it, it can certainly be harmful. 

 

This thread might help, if you haven't already looked into dragon sickness:

 

 

[idiot_stimpy]

Celibacy can also super charge your emotional state. Again a balanced mind is the key.

 

I forgot to mention if meditation is causing emotions to surface that are too hard to handle then stop meditating. 

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, idiot_stimpy said:

Celibacy can also super charge your emotional state. Again a balanced mind is the key.

 

I forgot to mention if meditation is causing emotions to surface that are too hard to handle then stop meditating. 

 

Yes, I stopped about half a year ago. I feel like I've been gradually improving since then.

[Maddie]

Something else I had to mention that if I do to much of that also give me side effects is the Zhunti mantra. A little bit makes me feel pretty good, too much and its like instant dark night of the soul.

[idiot_stimpy]

54 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

...too much and its like instant dark night of the soul.

 

Depending on your belief, the dark night of the soul has been seen as a prelude to mystical union with the divine. So in this line of thinking not a bad thing if mystical union is your goal.

 

If mystical union is not your goal, then why engage in esoteric practices as they are dangerous for those not prepared to go all the way.

[dwai]

On 11/27/2020 at 8:18 PM, dmattwads said:

I've come to realize that I react very adversely to meditation and some other cultivation methods. So much so that about half a year ago I had to abandon meditation. It would affect me very negatively emotionally. 

 Has anyone else experienced anything similar?

Not all types of meditation are applicable or recommended at all times and to every kind of practitioner. What you pick as your practice matters based on your constitution. 
 

Have you tried moving meditation? 

[Maddie]

2 hours ago, dwai said:

Not all types of meditation are applicable or recommended at all times and to every kind of practitioner. What you pick as your practice matters based on your constitution. 
 

Have you tried moving meditation? 

 

Dynamic forms of Qigong were some of my first practices but I've not done that for quite a while.

[dwai]

18 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

Dynamic forms of Qigong were some of my first practices but I've not done that for quite a while.

Some form of moving meditation  is a good way relieve some of the meditation problems. I’d recommend learning/practicing  taijiquan or similar art. 
 

Btw dealing with our inner demons is part of the meditation process. For me the problem presented itself in the nature of the contents of my mind. There was some nasty stuff in there — so I tortured myself with guilt, disgust, shame, and so on.
 

Little by little it dawned on me that I was not the contents of the mind, and not the mind either. Those are just a result of the kind of diet it had consumed — all those nasty things were surfacing so I could let them go. This letting go part seems hard though.

If we want to not have an upset stomach, we should look at what we eat. Similarly for the mind as well...

[idiot_stimpy]

Excellent post dwai. I do not know dmattwads situation but I have read in others that real problems arise when one cannot dissociate with the minds contents during meditation. When during meditation, it is recognized that the ego is none other than a fictitious character, one can let it go, or try desperately to hold on. When one tries to hold on then there is chance of a psychotic break.

Edited December 1, 2020 by idiot_stimpy

[Maddie]

3 hours ago, idiot_stimpy said:

Excellent post dwai. I do not know dmattwads situation but I have read in others that real problems arise when one cannot dissociate with the minds contents during meditation. When during meditation, it is recognized that the ego is none other than a fictitious character, one can let it go, or try desperately to hold on. When one tries to hold on then there is chance of a psychotic break.

 

Mostly lots of very strong unpleasant emotions. There's a small percentage of the population mostly people who have had childhood trauma that experience and called relaxation induced anxiety when they meditate. 

[idiot_stimpy]

11 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

Mostly lots of very strong unpleasant emotions. There's a small percentage of the population mostly people who have had childhood trauma that experience and called relaxation induced anxiety when they meditate. 

 

I had incredibly unpleasant pain just laying down in bed while meditating. I don't mean to dictate to you or lecture you, however in my personal experience if one doesn't resist the unpleasant emotions and passively watches them with the mind from a far, they will eventually dissolve back from whence they came from. The added benefit is, you have liberated that energy from yourself. 

 

From personal experience, being brave and surrendering to and merging with the emotions is a sure way to liberate them the fastest. Its not fun, but its good to have a reminder its just a sensation that will soon pass. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by idiot_stimpy

[dwai]

8 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

Mostly lots of very strong unpleasant emotions. There's a small percentage of the population mostly people who have had childhood trauma that experience and called relaxation induced anxiety when they meditate. 

I think meditation does tend to surface unresolved emotions etc. There are ways to deal with them, but it is best to try with the help of a good teacher. Also, gradual development of self-inquiry methods will help too -- check this link out for practical and simple methods via which self-inquiry can be practiced.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by dwai

[Apech]

48 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

Mostly lots of very strong unpleasant emotions. There's a small percentage of the population mostly people who have had childhood trauma that experience and called relaxation induced anxiety when they meditate. 

 

To put a positive spin on it, if I may, it means you really were meditating and not just playing at it (which is what most people do).  It's a tough path and challenging in all sorts of ways.

 

I'm sure you'll find your own way through (which is largely the point anyway) but I would encourage you to just step back when you need to but don't abandon it altogether - I don't mean whether you sit or not, I mean don't mentally give up completely.

 

I've been meditating for several decades and I can say there are barriers after barriers - but if you keep digging you do strike the occasional gold.  I'm not Christian but I often describe meditation as 'slow crucifixion' - it cooks you in your own juice

 

I hope I haven't put you off at all - but I see nothing but good and increased awareness in what you are saying.

 

Cheers

 

A.