Who thinks Bill Bodri is right?

[Cameron]

It's a deep question, probably no simple answer.

 

Maybe some authentic Nei Kung methods fast forward or speed up the ability to sit in stillness. Every system has thier own approach.

 

I still do qigong/nei kung. Probably I am addicted to the practices I have learned at this point, but was wondering who thought they are a sidetrack from just simple emptiness meditation(ie, being quiet and watching your mind, without any technique).

[Old Baby 108]

Energy practices are considered a sidetrack to cultivation because the awareness of the mind during energy practice is still operating within the limited conventions of a conceptual reality. Energy practices are systematic: systems are developed conceptually, consist of interacting parts, and are governed by rationalistic activities of the mind. No system can rid itself of the conceptual framework that contextualizes its own prescribed activities.

 

More bothersome than the concepts which define the practice are the concepts that govern the steps of progress in the practice-learning, achievement, attainment of mastery-all of these concepts seperate the knower from that which is to be known and provide a basis for the attainment of knowledge-that basis being the state of ignorance.

 

Cultivating Tao is to embrace ignorance completely and abandon forever the pursuit of knowledge.

[宁]

hey Cam, i think it's your old habit in a new form, remember threads like "name your best 1 2 3 teacher method and etcetera..." there is no BEST WAY, or BEST TEACHER, everybody and everything is good... it only depends on what you are after... different paths, different goals.

 

good luck

[Ian]

My teacher says that, roughly speaking, the first 40% of healing can be done with movements, but for the rest you need meditation.

 

But in his case neither is really energy work, as there is no direction nor intention, other than to feel.

[Cameron]

hey Cam, i think it's your old habit in a new form, remember threads like "name your best 1 2 3 teacher method and etcetera..." there is no BEST WAY, or BEST TEACHER, everybody and everything is good... it only depends on what you are after... different paths, different goals.

 

good luck

 

 

You might be right

[Maddie]

One thing I have often wondered about is it seems on Brodhi's website he thinks the MCO is a bad idea and I'm not sure why he thinks that.

[refugeindharma]

5 hours ago, dmattwads said:

One thing I have often wondered about is it seems on Brodhi's website he thinks the MCO is a bad idea and I'm not sure why he thinks that.

Bodri seems to have shifted opinions and ideas over the years throughout his writing career.. most likely due to his own practice and path development.

 

He recently released Arhat Yoga and has a draft available online for his next work to be published "Bodhisattva Yoga"... that currently sits at over 1000 pages: http://www.meditationexpert.com/ebok/BodhisattvaYoga.pdf

 

He shares some good stuff and interesting insights and viewpoints in his writings... But at the same time, it's quite difficult (at least for me) to ascertain where he is coming from with the stuff he shares.

 

Has he fallen into delusion? Or is he actually awakened/enlightened to some degree and is just taking off the curtains and covers for all to bear witness by writing about what he's experienced?

 

I'm not sure where I stand on the above. They say that even when the truth is told, people tend to simply mistake it as being false, and that when false things are said, many love gobbling it up as if it were cake and candy. 

[refugeindharma]

Also his own teacher/Master has written and talked about the MCO and the role that it plays when it comes to cultivation. "Tao and Longevity" by Master Nan Huai Chin

[forestofclarity]

IIRC Bodri is against trying to "run" energy through the MCO, not the MCO itself. 

[anshino23]

14 hours ago, refugeindharma said:

Bodri seems to have shifted opinions and ideas over the years throughout his writing career.. most likely due to his own practice and path development.

 

Yes. It is quite interesting. I followed him since the past 5 years since I was first introduced as I was following another student of Master Nan Huai Chin and learning from him. Bodri had very strong opinions then on the Mind-only approach to attainments. Now his view is very different and is all about the neigong-process, but not neigong in the way that neigong is shared here, but rather as simply internal energy work. In his own words... 

 

"Nearly one-hundred percent of spiritual practitioners do not know how to cultivate correctly even if they are monks or nuns because they do not realize they are performing exercises meant to transform and purify their Yin Qi or Yang Qi. The purpose of spiritual practice is to purify and strengthen your subtle body composed of Qi so that you can achieve the independent deva body attainment whilst alive, or (failing at that) lay the foundation for the Sakadagamin stage and then Causal body Anagamin achievement after death. Now that you know the many ways to go about purifying your Qi and the principles behind these techniques, you should be able to make your spiritual practices, whatever they are, much more effective.

 

The road of spiritual practice involves cultivating, purifying or refining (1) your Qi, (2) your consciousness and (3) your character, which gives rise to your behavior. Hence we say you must purify your behavior on the spiritual trail. Even if you don’t succeed in enlightenment, you still want to achieve a refined state of psychology (mental well-being) and behavior. However, you also want to make progress in purifying the internal energy of your body since that is the basis of your spiritual attainments and the body of your next life. If you don’t succeed at the subtle body attainment in this lifetime you can continue cultivating the purity of your body’s Qi after death and achieve the requisite purification of your subtle body from there to attain the Sakadagamin stage of achievement. You get a head start on this objective if you cultivated spirituality during life."

 

He's all for spinning Qi now... Just some excerpts on the methods you can use (according to him) and how spiritual practice should be approached from his view now:

 

You should practice as many different types of spiritual exercise as possible, each of which works according to different principles for transforming your Qi/Prana. Through simultaneous practice of many different cultivation exercises at the same time, each which affects your Qi/Prana via different principles, you will maximize your chances for real Qi/Prana transformations that will purify its nature and produce the independent subtle body quickest. Since you don’t know which techniques will work best for transforming your Qi/Prana, the use of multiple techniques simultaneously, each of which works on affecting your Yin or Yang Qi/Prana according to different principles, is highly recommended. 

 

For instance, one might during a single day practice meditation, Mantrayana recitation, pranayama, yoga stretching with visualization on your muscles, and inner nei-gong work (anapana) to move your Qi. This is an example of practicing multiple techniques simultaneously rather than just a single cultivation method. Using multiple methods will mean that each of them will have an effect on transforming (purifying) your Qi/Prana via different principles. The harder you work – the more types of methods you practice and the longer and more consistently you practice – the higher your chances for success, and the quicker your success if success is to come.

 

Success is the result of consistent effort applied across time. The longer and deeper you practice the more profound will be your results.

 

(P. 31 in Arhat Yoga (37 in the PDF)). If you read on he goes on to describe all kinds of methods on how to cultivate Qi including but not limited to spinning Qi around "thousands of times" your body. 

[anshino23]

12 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said:

IIRC Bodri is against trying to "run" energy through the MCO, not the MCO itself. 

 

He used to make lots of fun against the way people practiced the MCO and said it was something that sponteanously manifested etc etc. Now his descriptions are very different. His Nyasa Yoga book describes all kinds of Kundalini Yoga methods on how to run the energy through, what the real MCO is really about, what chakras are, etc... Very different from his old views. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by anshino23

[Maddie]

46 minutes ago, anshino23 said:

 

He used to make lots of fun against the way people practiced the MCO and said it was something that sponteanously manifested etc etc. Now his descriptions are very different. His Nyasa Yoga book describes all kinds of Kundalini Yoga methods on how to run the energy through, what the real MCO is really about, what chakras are, etc... Very different from his old views. 

 

Interesting. It would seem then that he does not update his "Meditation Expert" website very often then because his old views are still on there. I guess he is less "mind only" than he used to be. I wonder what cased the change?

[anshino23]

Just now, dmattwads said:

Interesting. It would seem then that he does not update his "Meditation Expert" website very often then because his old views are still on there. I guess he is less "mind only" than he used to be. I wonder what cased the change?

 

If you read his latest books at least in Meditation Cases and Nyasa Yoga he expresses that his view changed as a result of knowing what the "real path was really about" after insinuating that he went through the 12 year kundalini process and I assume has access to the higher bodies though he never outright states that from what I've seen. (But how else would he know?).  

 

These 5 articles (which are taken from his book), gives a pretty good view of that: http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga-kung-fu/y-5-spiritual-bodies.html, http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga-kung-fu/y_What-are-chakras.html, http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga-kung-fu/y_Dealing-with-angels-devas-on-the-spiritual-path.htm, http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga-kung-fu/y_hearing_voices_in_your_head.htm

 

e.g. 

 

"Once the kundalini is truly initiated within your body due to cultivation practices, it takes twelve years to generate the subtle deva body made of Qi. Very few people can do this without an enlightened master. It requires lots of cultivation effort such as meditation, mantra practice, visualization efforts (such as the white skeleton visualization), pranayama breath retention exercises, nei-gong exercises, Yoga stretching or martial arts, charity and virtue, and other cultivation efforts. Once you have attained that invisible spirit body that can leave your physical body at will then devas, Buddhas and Bodhisattvas are supposed to teach you further instructions.
 

Without going into more details, such as what it is like to have multiple bodies (this is explained a little bit in the Surangama Sutra), that is the Esoteric school in a nutshell. Buddhism normally emphasizes that you cultivate consciousness to a state of purity but the Esoteric school of Buddhism puts an even stronger emphasis on cultivating your Qi, or physical body, so that you can achieve these attainments. Most of this information is considered secret, and most of the information I have just written about will seem new to ardent Buddhists, but this is the truth of the path. This is the gist of Esoteric Buddhism."

&

 

"Most individuals are entirely oblivious to the actualities of the process going on (the deva involvement) until their body is finally totally transformed by Qi and they finally can generate an independent yin shen, subtle body, impure illusory body, deva body or deity body. At that time there is a big party involving all the devas and Buddhas who helped you, and you are taught the reasons why for many events and sufferings you underwent."

[Maddie]

11 minutes ago, anshino23 said:

 

If you read his latest books at least in Meditation Cases and Nyasa Yoga he expresses that his view changed as a result of knowing what the "real path was really about" after insinuating that he went through the 12 year kundalini process and I assume has access to the higher bodies though he never outright states that from what I've seen. (But how else would he know?).  

 

These 5 articles (which are taken from his book), gives a pretty good view of that: http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga-kung-fu/y-5-spiritual-bodies.html, http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga-kung-fu/y_What-are-chakras.html, http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga-kung-fu/y_Dealing-with-angels-devas-on-the-spiritual-path.htm, http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga-kung-fu/y_hearing_voices_in_your_head.htm

 

e.g. 

 

"Once the kundalini is truly initiated within your body due to cultivation practices, it takes twelve years to generate the subtle deva body made of Qi. Very few people can do this without an enlightened master. It requires lots of cultivation effort such as meditation, mantra practice, visualization efforts (such as the white skeleton visualization), pranayama breath retention exercises, nei-gong exercises, Yoga stretching or martial arts, charity and virtue, and other cultivation efforts. Once you have attained that invisible spirit body that can leave your physical body at will then devas, Buddhas and Bodhisattvas are supposed to teach you further instructions.
 

Without going into more details, such as what it is like to have multiple bodies (this is explained a little bit in the Surangama Sutra), that is the Esoteric school in a nutshell. Buddhism normally emphasizes that you cultivate consciousness to a state of purity but the Esoteric school of Buddhism puts an even stronger emphasis on cultivating your Qi, or physical body, so that you can achieve these attainments. Most of this information is considered secret, and most of the information I have just written about will seem new to ardent Buddhists, but this is the truth of the path. This is the gist of Esoteric Buddhism."

&

 

"Most individuals are entirely oblivious to the actualities of the process going on (the deva involvement) until their body is finally totally transformed by Qi and they finally can generate an independent yin shen, subtle body, impure illusory body, deva body or deity body. At that time there is a big party involving all the devas and Buddhas who helped you, and you are taught the reasons why for many events and sufferings you underwent."

 

I'm reading those articles that you posted, and they are interesting. At the same time they are SO different than the Theravada Buddhism that I spent most of my time studying the past several years. It's hard to wrap my head around it. 

[forestofclarity]

3 hours ago, anshino23 said:

He's all for spinning Qi now...

 

WHAAAAT?!?!?! 

 

He was quite insistent back in the day... 

[Maddie]

3 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said:

 

WHAAAAT?!?!?! 

 

He was quite insistent back in the day... 

 

I've been trying to catch up to where he's at now, and it seems that now he insists the the physical body is vital in cultivation. 

[Bindi]

5 hours ago, anshino23 said:

 

If you read his latest books at least in Meditation Cases and Nyasa Yoga he expresses that his view changed as a result of knowing what the "real path was really about" after insinuating that he went through the 12 year kundalini process and I assume has access to the higher bodies though he never outright states that from what I've seen. (But how else would he know?).  

 

These 5 articles (which are taken from his book), gives a pretty good view of that: http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga-kung-fu/y-5-spiritual-bodies.html, http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga-kung-fu/y_What-are-chakras.html, http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga-kung-fu/y_Dealing-with-angels-devas-on-the-spiritual-path.htm, http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga-kung-fu/y_hearing_voices_in_your_head.htm

 

e.g. 

 

"Once the kundalini is truly initiated within your body due to cultivation practices, it takes twelve years to generate the subtle deva body made of Qi. Very few people can do this without an enlightened master. It requires lots of cultivation effort such as meditation, mantra practice, visualization efforts (such as the white skeleton visualization), pranayama breath retention exercises, nei-gong exercises, Yoga stretching or martial arts, charity and virtue, and other cultivation efforts. Once you have attained that invisible spirit body that can leave your physical body at will then devas, Buddhas and Bodhisattvas are supposed to teach you further instructions.
 

Without going into more details, such as what it is like to have multiple bodies (this is explained a little bit in the Surangama Sutra), that is the Esoteric school in a nutshell. Buddhism normally emphasizes that you cultivate consciousness to a state of purity but the Esoteric school of Buddhism puts an even stronger emphasis on cultivating your Qi, or physical body, so that you can achieve these attainments. Most of this information is considered secret, and most of the information I have just written about will seem new to ardent Buddhists, but this is the truth of the path. This is the gist of Esoteric Buddhism."

&

 

"Most individuals are entirely oblivious to the actualities of the process going on (the deva involvement) until their body is finally totally transformed by Qi and they finally can generate an independent yin shen, subtle body, impure illusory body, deva body or deity body. At that time there is a big party involving all the devas and Buddhas who helped you, and you are taught the reasons why for many events and sufferings you underwent."

An independent Yin Shen/subtle body?  An unusual position, up till now I’ve only heard of the aim to generate a Yang Shen. I don’t know Bill Bodri at all, but I think his idea (that you posted previously) that no one actually knows what works so do everything is pretty funny, though quite possibly true. 
 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Bindi

[refugeindharma]

12 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

Interesting. It would seem then that he does not update his "Meditation Expert" website very often then because his old views are still on there. I guess he is less "mind only" than he used to be. I wonder what cased the change?

Not at all, just look at the website haha, it got transported from the 90's / 2000's. Some links on the toolbar and what not don't even work properly.

 

12 hours ago, anshino23 said:

If you read his latest books at least in Meditation Cases and Nyasa Yoga he expresses that his view changed as a result of knowing what the "real path was really about" after insinuating that he went through the 12 year kundalini process and I assume has access to the higher bodies though he never outright states that from what I've seen. (But how else would he know?).  

This was my take after reading some of his latest books as well, he either has broken through or potentially gone bat shit crazy. I think it's the former but there is of course still caution thrown in the wind as there's no real public 'certification' or stamp of approval for his attainments. 

 

Also begs the question, why is he now revealing this for all? Isn't one not meant to reveal the secrets of Heaven? 

 

The things he covers is definitely out of left field with the things that he discusses not being found (if at all) in other works.

 

9 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

WHAAAAT?!?!?! 

 

He was quite insistent back in the day... 

 

"DJ, spin that shit" - Bill Bodri, probably

 

12 hours ago, dmattwads said:

At the same time they are SO different than the Theravada Buddhism that I spent most of my time studying the past several years. It's hard to wrap my head around it. 

 

I've been trying to catch up to where he's at now, and it seems that now he insists the the physical body is vital in cultivation. 

 

Yeah Theravada Buddhism doesn't speak much about energetics and the like, if only in metaphors or symbolic gestures. There is mention of the "deva/subtle body" and the yin-shen referred to by Bodri though, in the Pali canon they talk about the mind-made body that comes out like a sheath uncovering a sword - I take that to be the astral body. They also do meditations on the 4 elements or corpse/skeleton/body meditations that I believe is done to help with the energetics of the body, even if not explicitly stated in the suttas. The precepts themselves, especially the monk/nun precepts are to regulate things on the bodily level, so it then effects things on the energetic, and then hopefully the mental - the purification of Yin/Yang Qi Bodri mentioned above. 

 

From my understanding - and this has also been discussed in recent posts in other threads of TDB - is the distinction between an initial level of realization or awakening and then the 'actual' path of cultivation. Realization or awakening can occur at just the mental level, I take this generally to be seeing through the false sense of self, whether this is breaking the skandha of form, or breaking through the entire notion of what is "I" or "me", I'm not entirely sure - this may also equate to stream entry. But after this point in time, this is generally where the body and energetic work comes into play. 

 

As Bodri alludes to, after the initial breakthrough is experienced, either you receive further instructions from higher beings or deities, or you eventually stumble upon a master in real life who teaches you further from there.

 

Venerable Master Bodhidharma sat facing a wall for 9 years, what was he doing all that time? The Sixth Patriarch had an awakening then hid amongst hunters in the wild cultivating for 16+ years after he was transmitted the robe and bowl, what was he doing then?

 

Shakyamuni Buddha practiced extreme ascetism for at least 6 years before having his major enlightenment, what was he doing then? He talks in the suttas about this period and how at some points it was like wind (Qi) within his body was cutting him up from the inside and how huge pains would occur in his head and so forth, it all seems to line up with experiences that have been shared by Daoist practitioners in terms of bodily transformation.  

 

6 hours ago, Bindi said:

An independent Yin Shen/subtle body?  An unusual position, up till now I’ve only heard of the aim to generate a Yang Shen.

If I'm not mistaken, the Yin shen subtle body is a stepping stone towards the generation of the Yang Shen?

 

Yin Shen being more equivalent to an astral body that can travel outside and go around places, but is unable to interact with physical objects, whereas the Yang Shen is able to do that, and is the reason for Masters/practitioners being able to be seen or interacted with at multiple locations at seemingly the same time.

[anshino23]

7 hours ago, Bindi said:

An independent Yin Shen/subtle body?  An unusual position, up till now I’ve only heard of the aim to generate a Yang Shen. I don’t know Bill Bodri at all, but I think his idea (that you posted previously) that no one actually knows what works so do everything is pretty funny, though quite possibly true. 

 

As I understand it, he says the stages are quite clear. You create the Yin Shen first which is the 'body double' or the 'impure illusory body' and this is the first stage of "enlightenment". After that you then create higher and higher bodies, each with higher abilities. The Supracausal body, according to him, is the one that is the Yang Shen, as it can literally raise people from the dead. 

 

He describes the 'Siddhis' as such: 

 

An individual who successively cultivates their subtle body to attain the deva body that can come and go out of their physical body at will is called a Srotapanna, which is the Christian stage of Homo Deus. This is the first stage of Arhat enlightenment attainment. It is also called attaining the first dhyana in Buddhism or vitarka (coarse mental grasping) samadhi in Hinduism. Its attainment is called a “birth by transformation” since it arises out of the physical body due to meditation work, morality, merit and Qi cultivation efforts. You have to cultivate your inner Qi-body with countless inner energy practices (nei-gong) for its birth to become possible After it emerges the Indian yoga schools say you are one of the “twice born.” Jesus also explained, “Unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven,” which is referring to the deva body attainment. This deva body attainment is equivalent to becoming Homo Deus.

 

With the subtle deva body an adept attains the eight yogic powers, or siddhi, because the subtle body composed of Qi/Prana can change its shape and form to become bigger, smaller, lighter, heavier and so on. This is why a subtle body can shrink itself to enter into someone’s physical body and learn to read the memories stored in someone’s brain, which is one of the training practices after achievement since this is how spiritual beings help human beings. Using this new body he/she can perform minor miracles (tricks) in the physical world such as converting a dry tree into a green one, stop railway trains or cars, fill a dry well with water and so forth. Of the eight yogic powers, the ishita siddhi of “lordship over someone” means possessing them with one of your higher bodies, or a nirmanakaya projection, and causing them to think or do what you want.

 

If you use a higher body to enter into someone’s lower body you can therefore control them such as suppressing their spiritual powers by blocking them through control of the Qi of your body that is possessing someone else’s lower body. This is how “higher” masters can block the superpowers of someone with lower attainments. It is not because of higher superpower skills but because they have one higher body, such as an Immanence body entering into a Supra-Causal body.

 

[...]

 

In other words, the first and second dhyana of Buddhism refer to two different purification/cultivation levels for the same subtle body composed of Qi/Prana. As a human, when you die you attain an impure subtle body as a deva, which is equivalent to the first dhyana or Srotapanna attainment. You will be reborn in the earthly plane again as a human when your heavenly life is over unless you cultivate its purity to a higher level, which is the second dhyana. Devas in heaven, meaning the earthly heavenly plane, will be reborn as humans when they die unless they cultivate the second dhyana Sakadagamin attainment whilst alive (the work extensively on cultivating the Qi of their subtle body) so that their rebirth can remain in heaven as a deva. The Sakadagamin attainment is the same body as the Srotapanna except that its Qi energy is more purified or refined. When devas enter human bodies to help spiritual practitioners cultivate their Qi, higher bodied beings help those devas purify their bodies as well, especially when devas enter into humans to help transform their Qi during spiritual practices.

 

The individual who cultivates the Causal body is an Anagamin, or third stage Arhat. This is the third dhyana attainment of Buddhism and the ananda (bliss) samadhi of Hinduism. Using this new body composed of Shen (a type of energy higher than Qi/Prana) he/she becomes capable of performing grand miracles such as giving sight to the blind, restoring limbs to the maimed, and sometimes even raising the dead to life (although at this stage the life restoration ability only applies to lower creatures rather than human beings). He can experience yet more of the different planes and

 

The individual who cultivates the Supra-Causal body is a full Arhat, or “Buddha,” which is called attaining the fourth dhyana, “nirvana with remainder” achievement or asmita (existence) samadhi in Hinduism. With this body he becomes capable of raising the dead and even creating new life. He can also generate many nirmanakaya emanation bodies to do simultaneous activities in lower realms, and even project one into a womb to be reborn in the world of men. A reborn nirmanakaya is an individual who usually attains the Tao (achieves the subtle body attainment) at a very young age because the nirmanakaya’s father (or mother) is typically working on cultivating his or her Qi all the time because of the tether that connects the two

 

 

He also describes the Yang Shen attainment directly here... 

 

"You can find “saints” in nearly every religion who have attained transcendental bodies while alive, which they hope we all will attain or make great efforts in working to achieve. Thus they can perform miracles such as knowing your inner mind, healing others, conversing with animals, preventing people from moving, controlling nature, and even bilocating that entails projecting a double of themselves elsewhere (a nirmanakaya) to perform some deed."

 

"Bilocation, which is the yang shen attainment of Taoism, is possible only because they have achieved these higher attainments that give them the ability to materialize a visible nirmanakaya in the material realm, and sometimes you can touch it and sometimes it is like an empty hologram."

 

"Many people within Jewish mysticism, Christian mysticism, Hinduism, Buddhism and so forth have exhibited this skill because it is a non-denominational achievement belonging to the Supra-Causal stage of attainment and higher."

 

"Whenever someone becomes enlightened they can know when others think about them because they have a Supra-Causal or Immanence body whose energy is so transcending of the lower planes that they can know/feel through it the vibrations of such thoughts, especially well-known vibrations such as their name (calls for help). Thus they try to respond with help through one of their main bodies or a nirmanakaya projection."

[Maddie]

3 hours ago, anshino23 said:

 

As I understand it, he says the stages are quite clear. You create the Yin Shen first which is the 'body double' or the 'impure illusory body' and this is the first stage of "enlightenment". After that you then create higher and higher bodies, each with higher abilities. The Supracausal body, according to him, is the one that is the Yang Shen, as it can literally raise people from the dead. 

 

He describes the 'Siddhis' as such: 

 

An individual who successively cultivates their subtle body to attain the deva body that can come and go out of their physical body at will is called a Srotapanna, which is the Christian stage of Homo Deus. This is the first stage of Arhat enlightenment attainment. It is also called attaining the first dhyana in Buddhism or vitarka (coarse mental grasping) samadhi in Hinduism. Its attainment is called a “birth by transformation” since it arises out of the physical body due to meditation work, morality, merit and Qi cultivation efforts. You have to cultivate your inner Qi-body with countless inner energy practices (nei-gong) for its birth to become possible After it emerges the Indian yoga schools say you are one of the “twice born.” Jesus also explained, “Unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven,” which is referring to the deva body attainment. This deva body attainment is equivalent to becoming Homo Deus.

 

With the subtle deva body an adept attains the eight yogic powers, or siddhi, because the subtle body composed of Qi/Prana can change its shape and form to become bigger, smaller, lighter, heavier and so on. This is why a subtle body can shrink itself to enter into someone’s physical body and learn to read the memories stored in someone’s brain, which is one of the training practices after achievement since this is how spiritual beings help human beings. Using this new body he/she can perform minor miracles (tricks) in the physical world such as converting a dry tree into a green one, stop railway trains or cars, fill a dry well with water and so forth. Of the eight yogic powers, the ishita siddhi of “lordship over someone” means possessing them with one of your higher bodies, or a nirmanakaya projection, and causing them to think or do what you want.

 

If you use a higher body to enter into someone’s lower body you can therefore control them such as suppressing their spiritual powers by blocking them through control of the Qi of your body that is possessing someone else’s lower body. This is how “higher” masters can block the superpowers of someone with lower attainments. It is not because of higher superpower skills but because they have one higher body, such as an Immanence body entering into a Supra-Causal body.

 

[...]

 

In other words, the first and second dhyana of Buddhism refer to two different purification/cultivation levels for the same subtle body composed of Qi/Prana. As a human, when you die you attain an impure subtle body as a deva, which is equivalent to the first dhyana or Srotapanna attainment. You will be reborn in the earthly plane again as a human when your heavenly life is over unless you cultivate its purity to a higher level, which is the second dhyana. Devas in heaven, meaning the earthly heavenly plane, will be reborn as humans when they die unless they cultivate the second dhyana Sakadagamin attainment whilst alive (the work extensively on cultivating the Qi of their subtle body) so that their rebirth can remain in heaven as a deva. The Sakadagamin attainment is the same body as the Srotapanna except that its Qi energy is more purified or refined. When devas enter human bodies to help spiritual practitioners cultivate their Qi, higher bodied beings help those devas purify their bodies as well, especially when devas enter into humans to help transform their Qi during spiritual practices.

 

The individual who cultivates the Causal body is an Anagamin, or third stage Arhat. This is the third dhyana attainment of Buddhism and the ananda (bliss) samadhi of Hinduism. Using this new body composed of Shen (a type of energy higher than Qi/Prana) he/she becomes capable of performing grand miracles such as giving sight to the blind, restoring limbs to the maimed, and sometimes even raising the dead to life (although at this stage the life restoration ability only applies to lower creatures rather than human beings). He can experience yet more of the different planes and

 

The individual who cultivates the Supra-Causal body is a full Arhat, or “Buddha,” which is called attaining the fourth dhyana, “nirvana with remainder” achievement or asmita (existence) samadhi in Hinduism. With this body he becomes capable of raising the dead and even creating new life. He can also generate many nirmanakaya emanation bodies to do simultaneous activities in lower realms, and even project one into a womb to be reborn in the world of men. A reborn nirmanakaya is an individual who usually attains the Tao (achieves the subtle body attainment) at a very young age because the nirmanakaya’s father (or mother) is typically working on cultivating his or her Qi all the time because of the tether that connects the two

 

 

He also describes the Yang Shen attainment directly here... 

 

"You can find “saints” in nearly every religion who have attained transcendental bodies while alive, which they hope we all will attain or make great efforts in working to achieve. Thus they can perform miracles such as knowing your inner mind, healing others, conversing with animals, preventing people from moving, controlling nature, and even bilocating that entails projecting a double of themselves elsewhere (a nirmanakaya) to perform some deed."

 

"Bilocation, which is the yang shen attainment of Taoism, is possible only because they have achieved these higher attainments that give them the ability to materialize a visible nirmanakaya in the material realm, and sometimes you can touch it and sometimes it is like an empty hologram."

 

"Many people within Jewish mysticism, Christian mysticism, Hinduism, Buddhism and so forth have exhibited this skill because it is a non-denominational achievement belonging to the Supra-Causal stage of attainment and higher."

 

"Whenever someone becomes enlightened they can know when others think about them because they have a Supra-Causal or Immanence body whose energy is so transcending of the lower planes that they can know/feel through it the vibrations of such thoughts, especially well-known vibrations such as their name (calls for help). Thus they try to respond with help through one of their main bodies or a nirmanakaya projection."

 

I think what I would like to know is what are his source texts for this? I ask because I've read a lot of Buddhist sutras, granted more of the Pali texts than the Mahayana, but still the main theme of Buddhism on I read it is the four noble truths and the eightfold path, and that desire leads to suffering and therefore the path to liberation that is to let go of desire. I've never read anything about making all these extra bodies so I'm just wondering what is the source text?

[Creation]

On 10/29/2021 at 7:21 AM, dmattwads said:

 

I think what I would like to know is what are his source texts for this? I ask because I've read a lot of Buddhist sutras, granted more of the Pali texts than the Mahayana, but still the main theme of Buddhism on I read it is the four noble truths and the eightfold path, and that desire leads to suffering and therefore the path to liberation that is to let go of desire. I've never read anything about making all these extra bodies so I'm just wondering what is the source text?

The Pali cannon mentions that projecting a physical double is a siddhi that arises from fourth jhana, and has stories of the Buddha and his chief disciples doing this.  Don't have a reference on hand, sorry.

 

The Mahayana sutras, when listing the various siddhis possessed by bodhisattvas on the bhumis, speak of a Bodhisattva's ability to send forth multiple simultaneous emanations, thought the numbers are almost certainly exaggerated.  (This is the scriptural basis of Tibetans claiming several people are the reincarnation of the same master). 

 

The Surangama Sutra (the primary scriptural basis for esoteric Chan) does describes the path of cultivation in terms of ascending through the dhyanas/jhanas, with each successive dhyana giving access to rebirth in a higher Brahma realm, culminating in 9th dhyana, but emphasizes that only dhyana/jhana with proper insight is liberative.  All of this is consistent with the Pali Cannon, though many interpret the Pali Cannon to say this ascent of the dhyanas is not strictly necessary for Arhatship.  Dhyana is one of the six perfections, so a bodhisattva would have to do this.