How to bridge the two realities?

[manitou]

 

 

I've been trying to figure out how to approach all these current events with my extremely conservative elderly relatives down in The Villages.  They're frightened to death because they are convinced that there are packs of torch bearing liberals about to descend on their neighborhoods.  They've been in this state since the riots originally started from the BLM movement.  Their fears are fed by their neighbors and friends. 

 

I decided to start watching Fox News for maybe 10 minutes every once in a while, thinking it would help me know their mindset.  Normally I wouldn't watch Fox, but it's been interesting.  In no way does the content of the news from Fox reflect the content of the other stations.   It's like two different places in time and space, separate realities.  I understand the source of their terror now.  What I am going to do is open a conversation about the separate realities, but without the need to convince. 

 

I will see if they'd be open to flipping over to another news feed once in a while, just for the sake of comparison and understanding the other mindset.  Just a small openness within each of us to understand the fear they carry.

 

I think it could help to soften our own stances, whatever they happen to be, and hopefully calm the fears  in the ones we care about.  And this is about as grass roots as you can get. 

[Mithras]

Yeahhh different news, different world. 
 

I’d say the best remedy is to just not use the TV or news. So many modern platforms are both just throwing sparks and encourage strong division. Fox News, CNN, or any other big platform really...

 

They’ve seemingly made a sports show out of social issues and politics, both liberal and conservative. And it makes sense as to why: News is a business at the end of the day, and they thrive by keeping people glued to a screen even if that much doesn’t really happen. People who say it’s good to be informed could really just stay informed by hearsay or by looking at news once a week. The important news tends to come into our little bubbles, so some article talking about it doesn’t do much. I myself don’t read the news at all but I still know about corona and all the cases and stuff. Similarly I know about election stuff,  new movies, and local events like riots. I really don’t see what I’m missing.

 

Convincing old folks and young alike to just spend more time away from news and their opinions would be better. I think after some time away from news or even being in the proximity of someone who doesn’t care too much, they tend to calm down. Though idk this isn’t really the orthodox answer. I just think it would be impossible to convince someone to switch news channels or at least use two. It’s such a charged topic where a news network is equivalent to the foundation of ones personal belief, so saying anything about the network is the same as insulting that person.
 

Similarly, I think everyone in general is just really tired of being convinced all the time.  Yet young and old people keep coming at each others throats for it. So there’s like a built in defensive reflex to defend ones beliefs, and that’s fine because it’s deeply personal. 
 

I’m saying this from the perspective of one who lives in a house with someone who’s incredibly religious and another who’s incredibly scientific. They’re like matches for each other constantly trying to set the other aflame, and being in the middle of that is a bit tiring. They get even more tired out by it though, and they end up sinking into a idiocy/ignorance which they so strongly deny being in. Like there’s nothing good that can come out of convincing others, as all growth happens internally and with time. Instead, this debate culture just stamps out possible growth because people become so attached to their old ideas, just to defend them from “predators”. We can’t really blame anyone for believing what they do not even say it’s wrong. Everyone has their own subjective experiences which state this is true and this is false, etc. Even an “insane” person follows this regard, let alone a populist, scientist, or priest.
 

Personally, this was something big for me because learning to stop caring so much about my beliefs was such a burden off my chest. What I thought to be such a big cornerstone for me was just hindering me as I’d stick by ideas when other people battered them. Now I just let them batter whatever they want and say “uh huh”. Because it really doesn’t matter much.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Mithras

[dwai]

The only way is to exchange views without being threatening. Usually people latch on to a specific position out of fear. In this case, the fear is of obsolescence. So discussing the topic of contention in a way to coax out the underlying fear complex would be valuable imho. Only thing is, are we able to stay patient and persevere without reacting in irritation or anger during the process? 

[old3bob]

12 hours ago, manitou said:

 

 

I've been trying to figure out how to approach all these current events with my extremely conservative elderly relatives down in The Villages.  They're frightened to death because they are convinced that there are packs of torch bearing liberals about to descend on their neighborhoods.  They've been in this state since the riots originally started from the BLM movement.  Their fears are fed by their neighbors and friends. 

 

I decided to start watching Fox News for maybe 10 minutes every once in a while, thinking it would help me know their mindset.  Normally I wouldn't watch Fox, but it's been interesting.  In no way does the content of the news from Fox reflect the content of the other stations.   It's like two different places in time and space, separate realities.  I understand the source of their terror now.  What I am going to do is open a conversation about the separate realities, but without the need to convince. 

 

I will see if they'd be open to flipping over to another news feed once in a while, just for the sake of comparison and understanding the other mindset.  Just a small openness within each of us to understand the fear they carry.

 

I think it could help to soften our own stances, whatever they happen to be, and hopefully calm the fears  in the ones we care about.  And this is about as grass roots as you can get. 

 

I sometimes watch Fox Sunday News with Chris Wallace or his associate and it has been ok or not  crazy compared to other Fox propaganda crazies and repeatedly proven liars.

[old3bob]

3 hours ago, dwai said:

The only way is to exchange views without being threatening. Usually people latch on to a specific position out of fear. In this case, the fear is of obsolescence. So discussing the topic of contention in a way to coax out the underlying fear complex would be valuable imho. Only thing is, are we able to stay patient and persevere without reacting in irritation or anger during the process? 

 

yet the hoped for norm of doing so may not exist if one is fighting for their life.

[Limahong]

13 hours ago, manitou said:

Normally I wouldn't watch Fox, but it's been interesting.  In no way does the content of the news from Fox reflect the content of the other stations.   It's like two different places in time and space, separate realities.

 

Hi Barbara,

 

How to bridge the two realities?

 

One reality ~ but many perspectives?

 

If so ~ how to bridge the many perspectives?

 

- Anand

 

 

[manitou]

8 hours ago, dwai said:

Only thing is, are we able to stay patient and persevere without reacting in irritation or anger during the process? 

 

 

There's a way.  Doing by not-doing.

[manitou]

3 hours ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi Barbara,

 

How to bridge the two realities?

 

One reality ~ but many perspectives?

 

If so ~ how to bridge the many perspectives?

 

- Anand

 

 

 

 

I think that's my point, if I get you right.

 

Take perspectives out of it altogether.  Focus on the structure - i.e. how incredibly different the news feeds are.  Tell them you're watching Fox a little.  Invite them to do the same with CNN or MSNBC.  The truth certainly must lie between the two.

 

I'm a little heartened today about this.  I was just reading the online version of the little town in Ohio I lived in.  Their headline today was something about Trump lying to the people about the election fraud.  This is really something, for that little conservative Ohio town paper to say anything other than the straight Repub line.  That's huge, in that part of the country - Appalachia.

[Limahong]

23 minutes ago, manitou said:

That's huge, in that part of the country - Appalachia.

 

An applause for Appalachia.

 

 

 

All things (good and bad) will come to pass.

 

 

[old3bob]

4 hours ago, Limahong said:

 

An applause for Appalachia.

 

All things (good and bad) will come to pass.

 

 

 

hmm, including the whole multi-verse and all beings, but almost no one is ready for that or wants it.

Edited December 3, 2020 by old3bob

[old3bob]

Jesus could not bridge the reality gap with those who murdered him,  and in most cases (except for a few) it was futile for him to try and do so thus he chose to remain silent for most of his sham trial .  (and sank beneath our wisdom like a stone)

 

 

[Mithras]

At the same time though... no ones really an idiot even if others or they themselves claim they are as they have reasons to do/believe what they do.

 

I can only imagine a figure like Jesus was more so understanding of this, and thus wasn’t hateful those who condemned him. 
 

“Take perspectives out of it altogether.  Focus on the structure - i.e. how incredibly different the news feeds are.  Tell them you're watching Fox a little.  Invite them to do the same with CNN or MSNBC.  The truth certainly must lie between the two.” Had a hard time quoting this on my phone @manitou

I guess what we want then is for people to be more open minded? To be less attached to their sources of information and allow themselves to flow more freely in their experience. Sounds a bit like something that could be visualized through a tai chi excercise hehe.

 

I don’t want to hijack this thread so I’ll mention this briefly: Even so, I wonder which side is right or wrong. Considering a child being taught 1+1=2 and they instead believe it’s 1. When the child is taught the “correct” way,  it seems that knowledge is not actually being acquired, instead one is simply changing their perspective. But I guess this is a good example, because in functional terms 1+1 does not equal 1. Though maybe there’s a reality where 1+1 equals 1 is the functional basis for understanding physical phenomena. And maybe functional phenomena isn’t important in the first place. Oh well
 

Otherwise I’m gonna contemplate this line: “knowledge is not actually being acquired, instead one is simply changing their perspective”. It seems to give off strong allure for me.

 

Cheers

Edited December 3, 2020 by Mithras

[ilumairen]

18 hours ago, manitou said:

 

I'm a little heartened today about this.  I was just reading the online version of the little town in Ohio I lived in.  Their headline today was something about Trump lying to the people about the election fraud.  This is really something, for that little conservative Ohio town paper to say anything other than the straight Repub line.  That's huge, in that part of the country - Appalachia.

The small town paper from where I hail from avoided claims of lies or truth, and simply reported a second suit has been set forth in Wisconsin regarding the elections - which is honestly how I feel it should be, a sharing of information and available facts.

 

If the press (whichever direction it leans) would stop telling people what to think and how they should see things, and return to “printing” only verifiable facts I believe it would go a long ways towards “bridging the gap” (that to my way of thinking seems deliberately created and maintained).

[Limahong]

2 hours ago, ilumairen said:

If the press (whichever direction it leans) would stop telling people what to think and how they should see things, and return to “printing” only verifiable facts I believe it would go a long ways towards “bridging the gap” (that to my way of thinking seems deliberately created and maintained).

 

Hi ilumairen,

 

An irresponsible press is into the business of  "printing" money as sellable news?

 

 

 

We as responsible individuals should be in a capacity/position to express a different "stop press"...?

 

  

 

A halt to...

 

     ]

 

 

We must be careful not to  store up  STOP PRESS! .

 

We must be careful not to store up the teachings as only conceptual understanding lest that conceptual understanding becomes a block to wisdom. The teachings are not ideas to be collected, but a path to be followed.

     - TWR The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep

 

 

- Anand

 

[Daeluin]

On 12/2/2020 at 12:37 AM, manitou said:

 

 

I've been trying to figure out how to approach all these current events with my extremely conservative elderly relatives down in The Villages.  They're frightened to death because they are convinced that there are packs of torch bearing liberals about to descend on their neighborhoods.  They've been in this state since the riots originally started from the BLM movement.  Their fears are fed by their neighbors and friends.

 

Hi manitou. <3

 

I'd say we appear to be undergoing a paradigm shift.

Change will ever catch up to us and require adaptation. What cannot adapt decays and the new is born to take its place.

 

It seems like now if we wish to avoid seeing the long fallout of things being unable to adapt to change, it is time to start preemptively building the foundation to support the new.

 

One of the new bits of this paradigm seems to be related to information overload. As vibrations increase due to all manner of factors, we are having trouble keeping track and keeping current. It becomes easy for people to start feeling distrust for authoritative sources of information. And in the security void that results it is easy to grasp onto something that provides easy answers. Especially when those answers connect all the dots and give an enemy to be responsible for all the inner fears.

 

A new "Age of Aquarius" is an age of air - the realm of the mind.

 

Let us not forget that the chinese word includes heart AND mind as one.

Our feelings drive our thoughts.

When our thoughts become overwhelmed it can be therapeutic to simply return to our feelings.

 

"How am I feeling right now?"

 

Feelings are one word answers.

 

Lonely. Depressed. Happy. Content. Ecstatic.

 

They aren't reasons and justifications and stories.

 

The more we are able to separate our feelings from our thoughts, the more we can build a bridge back to a simpler reality. One that we can navigate without needing conspiracy theories and enemies hiding in the shadows.

 

NVC (Non-Violent Communication) is great at this. We can use Feeling cards to navigate and practice working with our feelings. And we can use Needs cards to navigate our core needs - which differ from our desires. Perhaps your friends would enjoy this type of experience instead of watching TV?

 

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NVC is a great example of a foundation that can support the new paradigm.

Many foundations are already in place, like this one. Many others will need to be built, like ways we can leverage social media to self-represent each other and our communities.

And these foundations then can become bridges to those stuck in the old paradigm.

We don't have to watch it all fall apart. We don't have to watch the world burn as people feel like cornered animals and reach deep within their creative reactivity. We can say "here. here's a way out that doesn't corner you."

 

We can't force anyone to do anything. We all need to be willing to adapt to changing times in our own ways.

 

But when people are presented with new choices. Well, there may just come a time when they decide - "you know what? this old thing isn't serving me any more, I think I'm going to try this new thing instead."

 

 

 

 

[Apech]

For quite a while now broadcast and printed news media have been struggling with circulation and viewing figures.  To deal with this they have resorted to click-bait style journalism and mixing opinion with fact to create a loyal fan base.  This means neither right or left wing media are reliable int terms of fact based reporting.  The trouble with alternatives such as online feeds and so on is that they are full of fake stories.  I have found the best way of dealing with this is to read a variety of outputs and treat everything you see and read with a pinch of salt.  I read the Guardian (online and free) as a left wing source, the Daily Mail (right wing conservative) and the Times (paywall) - these are all UK publications.  None are bias free but at least I get a cross section of headline news and opinion.

 

 

[idiot_stimpy]

When I first read this heading, I immediately thought about bridging the material and divine! 

[manitou]

5 hours ago, idiot_stimpy said:

When I first read this heading, I immediately thought about bridging the material and divine! 

 

 

That seems to be the practice, once everything is said and done.

 

 

16 hours ago, Daeluin said:

"How am I feeling right now?"

 

Really nice post!  'Be Here Now' will bring me back every time.  There is a paradigm shift in one's own outlook, from fearful and worrying about 'what's going to happen next', to realizing that we're all just different cells of the one huge organism - and that 'the organism' is doing exactly what it needs/wants to do.  We're just the little ceremonial straw dogs in the play, all connected to one another because we are actually all the same entity.

[manitou]

21 hours ago, Limahong said:

We must be careful not to store up the teachings as only conceptual understanding lest that conceptual understanding becomes a block to wisdom. The teachings are not ideas to be collected, but a path to be followed.

     - TWR The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep

 

 

Conceptual understanding is magnificent, but it must be accompanied by inner realization, which isn't taught by anybody.  It's a solo endeavor, seeing ourselves for what we truly are; eliminating that which is undesirable, understanding the reasons for our own compounded reactions stemming from early trauma.  I love that quote, Limmers.

 

[Limahong]

1 hour ago, manitou said:

I love that quote, Limmers.

 

I have it quoted from ilumairen.

 

A thank you to her.