Pyrokinesis Discussion

[Maddie]

And for those who think someone demonstrating pyrokinesis on a YouTube video is definitive proof and could never possibly be faked this is for you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by dmattwads

[idiot_stimpy]

Because big money is involved I wouldn't be surprised if those on stage getting healed were being paid to perform and jump around like that.

[Maddie]

9 minutes ago, idiot_stimpy said:

Because big money is involved I wouldn't be surprised if those on stage getting healed were being paid to perform and jump around like that.

 

I actually have known people who went to those things and they actually had to pay to get in and some of them actually got knocked down and they said that they were not trying to do so. The psychology of group hypnosis is actually pretty well documented and understood.

Edited December 5, 2020 by dmattwads

[freeform]

The type of thing you see in evangelical churches where the ‘holy spirit’ makes people writhe around is a ‘genuine’ experience.
 

It’s actually pretty much the same thing as ‘Zifa gong’ which is ‘spontaneous movement’ in qigong.

 

However in the case of most churches they achieve this by overloading the system with emotion. Emotion gets the Qi to move into the nervous system and being in a place where this sort of thing is expected, people put their conscious mind to the side and allow their body to take control.

 

The closest thing that most people have experienced that works on similar principles is an uncontrollable laughing fit  

 

The problem is that using emotion in this way is very depleting and actually leads the person away from stillness - and therefore away from any genuine spiritual growth.

 

In the Daoist approach to Zifa gong, they use a different mechanism to start these spontaneous movements. Not the emotions.
 

There’s also no confusion about what it is. As long as it’s a genuine tradition it’s made clear that when done right, zifa gong is just a process that clears out the outer layers of blockage - usually on the physical and emotional level. It’s not special, it’s not the Holy Spirit or angels or god. It’s closer to a sneeze in nature.

 

Because of the nature of this state, it’s very easy to subvert it and use hypnotic type manipulation to control people and their minds. I’ve seen this done in many religious groups - not just Christian.

[XianGong]

You can actually get things burning with a simple glass lens. As it focuses the light or sunlight, it will cause something like paper to catch fire and can be bought in a grocery store for a few bux. It can be easily hidden out of camera view.

 

As for telekinesis, it is done by hiding a small magnet in hand. Magnets can easily move things around. I have magnetic headphones and can show wonders of telekinesis each day with them. 

[thelerner]

I saw a youtube of a person ripping up paper into little bits, waving his hand at them and moving them around.  One message said 'What's the humidity there?'  It wasn't flippant, in low humidity there's more static build up.  More electric shocks and static cling.  So wearing wool and a waving your hands could cause bits of paper to move. 

 

It's the kind of phenomena where the person doing it may not even be aware he's simply demonstrating static cling.. ie like a person who rubs an inflated balloon on there head and uses their 'power' to make it stick against a wall. 

 

To me powerwise, there is dedicated daily practice (yes that's a power), Calmness, Quiet Clear Mind.  Then Right Action, Living with flow.  Then maybe dreamwork.. increased synchronicity..  increase mind/body control. 

 

I get the feeling pyrokinesis and telekinesis are pretty far down on the siddhi list.  Though I'm reminded of a book I read along time ago: Michael Murphy 'The Future of the Body:Explorations Into the Further Evolution of Human Nature'.  Where he investigates and lists siddhis, mostly historical of different systems.  Interesting and long. 

 

and that reminds me, Michael Murphy and George Leonard wrote the book 'The Life we are Given' a system for gaining some unlikely results- after long practice.  Might be worth checking out.  Long term practice and people would go for 2 minor and one major change/ability.  For example I recall one person wanted to grow 2" taller, and I believe he got.  Or did he.. posture, stretching..

 

 

[Master Logray]

16 hours ago, thelerner said:

I saw a youtube of a person ripping up paper into little bits, waving his hand at them and moving them around.  One message said 'What's the humidity there?'  It wasn't flippant, in low humidity there's more static build up.  More electric shocks and static cling.  So wearing wool and a waving your hands could cause bits of paper to move. 

 

 

In old days they use phosphorous or similar chemicals.

 

[thelerner]

4 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

In old days they use phosphorous or similar chemicals.

 

Right.  With the newspaper trick they'd put combos like phosphorous/magnesium between different pages.  Crinkle it up, which mixed it up and wallah fire. 

So fakers are out there but its a big world.  Perhaps some with real abilities are too.  I kinda hope the ones w/ real ability are not into exhibitionism.  It could be the path to 'powers' runs through enough self awareness that one no longer needs or want to show them off. 

[Maddie]

9 minutes ago, thelerner said:

It could be the path to 'powers' runs through enough self awareness that one no longer needs or want to show them off. 

 

I'm dumbfounded by the people whose path is power, as every experience I've ever had with what one might call out of the ordinary abilities was a byproduct of an extreme unpleasant spiritual experience. 

 Those who primarily seek powers remind me of the toddler that thinks there's no greater accomplishment than the ability to have as much candy as you want and can't understand why adults don't constantly eat mountains of candy everyday.

 In seeking power the primary motive is the ego and if one gains even a little bit of success in their pursuit this just strengthens the already fragile ego (yes I realize strengthening a fragile ego is a paradox). The problem with ego is since it is in and of itself a delusion the more ego the more delusion and the more delusion the less ability to realize the ego is operating. This is why those on this forum seeking power will claim to have eliminated the ego but to everybody else it's clear that they have the largest ego in the thread.

 Traditionally and in the texts and in my own experience every time some kind of ability has manifested itself it was a byproduct and not being sought.

 This is not something I usually share but maybe someone seeking power might find this useful or who knows it might just encourage them down the path of ego more but that is not my intent. But when I was in Acupuncture school we would have two week breaks in between semesters several of which I would turn into meditation retreats where every day almost all day I would do nothing else but meditate. During one of these such retreats as I was sitting on my cushion meditating several hours into it during the course of the day I suddenly had a searing unbearable pain in my tailbone. It was one of the most excruciating pains I've ever experienced and no matter what position I got into I could get no relief. I was back in my room at the time and my roommate and her boyfriend happened to come into the living room from outside as they usually never came to the apartment since they spent most of their time at his place. Suddenly I could hear their minds and their thoughts almost clear as day and it began to freak me out. Since they were only stopping to get something before they left I waited until they left and I guess perhaps out of desperation I decided to go to the local sandwich shop to get something to eat hoping that would help me feel better. This turned out to be a huge mistake because as soon as I entered the sandwich shop I heard everything going on in everyone's mind in the entire shop and we're talking 20 to 30 people. It was overwhelming and I almost had a panic attack but somehow I managed to get my sandwich and leave and I decided to go to the local nature trail to try to get away from people. Unfortunately it was a holiday and there were a lot of people on the nature trail and every time I would pass somebody I would hear their thoughts as well. So I decided to go back to my apartment and avoid people as much as possible for the rest of the between semester break. Did I gain some kind of ability? Yeah I guess maybe but it was the exact opposite of a pleasant experience. So why anyone would seek that on purpose is beyond me. Much more important to me than the ability was that during this time the way I began to see myself radically changed and this is the takeaway that mattered to me and still does.

[Paradoxal]

38 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 Those who primarily seek powers remind me of the toddler that thinks there's no greater accomplishment than the ability to have as much candy as you want and can't understand why adults don't constantly eat mountains of candy everyday.

Well phrased. I would personally go even further, and say that from the standpoint of those "higher up on the spiritual totem pole", those that are less high up would seem as children do to adults. You see them acting out, but understand that they do so because that is where they are currently at, and it is not something to get angry at; though, it can certainly be lamentable to see people rushing ahead to their own detriment! 

[Master Logray]

3 minutes ago, thelerner said:

Right.  With the newspaper trick they'd put combos like phosphorous/magnesium between different pages.  Crinkle it up, which mixed it up and wallah fire. 

So fakers are out there but its a big world.  Perhaps some with real abilities are too.  I kinda hope the ones w/ real ability are not into exhibitionism.  It could be the path to 'powers' runs through enough self awareness that one no longer needs or want to show them off. 

 

If I got special powers, why would setting fire any use even in old days.  Some form of healing power would be more useful and welcomed, plus financially rewarding.

[Master Logray]

58 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

I'm dumbfounded by the people whose path is power, as every experience I've ever had with what one might call out of the ordinary abilities was a byproduct of an extreme unpleasant spiritual experience. 

 Those who primarily seek powers remind me of the toddler that thinks there's no greater accomplishment than the ability to have as much candy as you want and can't understand why adults don't constantly eat mountains of candy everyday.

 In seeking power the primary motive is the ego and if one gains even a little bit of success in their pursuit this just strengthens the already fragile ego (yes I realize strengthening a fragile ego is a paradox). The problem with ego is since it is in and of itself a delusion the more ego the more delusion and the more delusion the less ability to realize the ego is operating. This is why those on this forum seeking power will claim to have eliminated the ego but to everybody else it's clear that they have the largest ego in the thread.

 Traditionally and in the texts and in my own experience every time some kind of ability has manifested itself it was a byproduct and not being sought.

 This is not something I usually share but maybe someone seeking power might find this useful or who knows it might just encourage them down the path of ego more but that is not my intent. But when I was in Acupuncture school we would have two week breaks in between semesters several of which I would turn into meditation retreats where every day almost all day I would do nothing else but meditate. During one of these such retreats as I was sitting on my cushion meditating several hours into it during the course of the day I suddenly had a searing unbearable pain in my tailbone. It was one of the most excruciating pains I've ever experienced and no matter what position I got into I could get no relief. I was back in my room at the time and my roommate and her boyfriend happened to come into the living room from outside as they usually never came to the apartment since they spent most of their time at his place. Suddenly I could hear their minds and their thoughts almost clear as day and it began to freak me out. Since they were only stopping to get something before they left I waited until they left and I guess perhaps out of desperation I decided to go to the local sandwich shop to get something to eat hoping that would help me feel better. This turned out to be a huge mistake because as soon as I entered the sandwich shop I heard everything going on in everyone's mind in the entire shop and we're talking 20 to 30 people. It was overwhelming and I almost had a panic attack but somehow I managed to get my sandwich and leave and I decided to go to the local nature trail to try to get away from people. Unfortunately it was a holiday and there were a lot of people on the nature trail and every time I would pass somebody I would hear their thoughts as well. So I decided to go back to my apartment and avoid people as much as possible for the rest of the between semester break. Did I gain some kind of ability? Yeah I guess maybe but it was the exact opposite of a pleasant experience. So why anyone would seek that on purpose is beyond me. Much more important to me than the ability was that during this time the way I began to see myself radically changed and this is the takeaway that mattered to me and still does.

 

 

Very interesting and useful experience, what sort of meditation is that, active or passive?    Usually such special abilities are not very welcomed because firstly they make you deviate from your path as you said.  There is another concern of using up one's Chi if doing it frequently.  They are quite useful as confirmation or as sign of progress.

 

One of the problems of special abilities is that the person cannot control it, as appear in many movies and TV. 

 

 

[Maddie]

15 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

 

Very interesting and useful experience, what sort of meditation is that, active or passive?

 

Just Buddhist meditation on the breath. Once my mind got very quiet is when things happened.

Edited December 6, 2020 by dmattwads

[Maddie]

29 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

 

If I got special powers, why would setting fire any use even in old days.  Some form of healing power would be more useful and welcomed, plus financially rewarding.

 

Yea again it makes me think of the yogi that spent 20 years to learn to walk on water when you can just take a boat for ten minutes. Whats the point of developing something that technology can already do?

[liminal_luke]

2 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

Just Buddhist meditation on the breath. Once my mind got very quiet is when things happened.

 

Basic things -- so often underrated.

[Maddie]

Just now, liminal_luke said:

 

Basic things -- so often underrated.

 

"Do without doing"

[Maddie]

4 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

 

Very interesting and useful experience, what sort of meditation is that, active or passive?    Usually such special abilities are not very welcomed because firstly they make you deviate from your path as you said.  There is another concern of using up one's Chi if doing it frequently.  They are quite useful as confirmation or as sign of progress.

 

One of the problems of special abilities is that the person cannot control it, as appear in many movies and TV. 

 

 

 

To be honest it really sucked it brought in a lot of anxiety and depression, not only my own, but I also had the pleasure of experiencing other people's minds near me, and most people's minds are not pleasant to experience.

[ralis]

8 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

Just Buddhist meditation on the breath. Once my mind got very quiet is when things happened.

Reshad Feild taught a 7-1-7-1 breath that was called the mothers breath. It wasn’t his, but comes from Caucasian Yoga and possibly Sufi teachings. I met him, but had no desire to join his group. 

 

I agree that breath will take one most anywhere. 
 

https://www.caucasianyoga.org

[Wilhelm]

On 12/3/2020 at 11:03 PM, XianGong said:

Qi transforms into electricity naturally when you have enough of Qi.

Where'd you get that idea?

[XianGong]

1 hour ago, Wilhelm said:

Where'd you get that idea?

 

Cultivation?

[Wilhelm]

43 minutes ago, XianGong said:

 

Cultivation?

As in you did this to yourself?  Or someone or some book listed it as a sign of fullness?  I ask because Yang Qi is often described as having electricity-like properties, but definitely not equating it to electricity.

 

Although I'm not even close to filling the Dan Tien, I study under some guys who describe a completely different process when you get to 100%.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Wilhelm

[XianGong]

Ego hides where you less expect it to, I see a lot of ego activity in all those talks about siddhi and powers being an ego goal.

What ego would never want to is to have some precise, verifiable and observable signs of cultivation, that cannot be denied or faked.

Whenever you realize that those abilities are natural to a cultivator and we are nowhere near reaching them, humbleness and humility will arise.

What ego does want is to hide behind abstract mumbo-jumbo, to say that cultivation is about adhering your mind to the cosmic plans of evolution, whatever the fk it is. 

Ego wants to think and feel oneself a master of spiritual path after listening to a lecture of Sri Sri Sri Babajji, and feeling some warmth and bliss.

What you seem to miss, is that lighter, knife, boat and nuclear weapons are all external tools, if you are able to perform a siddhi, that means you have internal power, and transformed yourself inside out.

Also, there can be 999999 videos and articles debunking "siddhi" and debunking various people who claim that they have abilities. But that just does not mean those abilities are impossible or do not exist. You can never prove that pyrokinesis or electrokinesis or levitation is impossible, as you can never prove that a god or deities do not exist. 

All, those worries about bad people wielding powerful abilities are much less connected to reality than people buying weapons and mass shooting around. It takes too much effort and talent and training to get anywhere with siddhi, to even think that idiots and fools can get there. It does not take nearly as much as 0.000001% effort to go buy a gun or any other dangerous external tool and cause some disaster.

[Wilhelm]

5 hours ago, XianGong said:

What ego would never want to is to have some precise, verifiable and observable signs of cultivation, that cannot be denied or faked.

Oops!  I didn't realize this was that sort of a discussion 

 

Yeah man, the Daoist alchemical classics basically describe all the verifiable and observable signs of cultivation you pick up when you're doing it right, and as far as I know none of them mention being able to charge your iPhone with the Qi in your belly!

 

Listen, I also went down this road cause I wanted to a sort of real life X-Men experience.  That's part of it.  I hope you find a skilled and honest teacher who has the things you're looking for.

[XianGong]

40 minutes ago, Wilhelm said:

none of them mention being able to charge your iPhone with the Qi in your belly!

 

yeah... because there were no iPhones in the date they were written?

 

42 minutes ago, Wilhelm said:

I hope you find a skilled and honest teacher who has the things you're looking for

 

Doubt such "teachers" even exist tbh.

[Maddie]

29 minutes ago, XianGong said:

 

Doubt such "teachers" even exist tbh.

 

Doesn't sound like you need one either.