Eastern and Western cultivation

[Maddie]

I've often wondered why the cultivation techniques from the East IMO seem to be more advanced and effective than what we have from the West? The cultivation techniques that have come out of Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism seem to be more detailed, elaborate, and specific than anything that I know of from the West.

 

Granted the ancient Egyptians, Babylonians, Greeks, Romans, European pagans, ect might have had advanced cultivation techniques that have been lost. The Orthodox and Catholic's seem to have some techniques that mainly the mystics practice such as the Jesus prayer, writings of St. John of the Cross, and things like that, but generally less than the East. The Muslims have the Sufis, and the Jew's have Kabbala. Then when you get into Protestantism there seems to be almost no real cultivation methods besides some merit making.

 

I wonder why is this? Sure it can be said the Roman Emperors wanted to manipulate religion to consolidate power, but China and India had their fair share of power hungry leaders as well, so why didn't they replace cultivation methods with dogmas more suited to power as well?

 

Maybe there are very effective methods from the West that I am unfamiliar with, but in the sixties when people in the West began to desire better cultivation methods they generally turned towards the East.

 

So why do the methods from the East generally seem superior?

[Limahong]

14 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

I've often wondered why the cultivation techniques from the East IMO seem to be more advanced and effective than what we have from the West?

 

14 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

So why do the methods from the East generally seem superior?

 

 

 

But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

 

 

[Paradoxal]

A lot of magical traditions include cultivation methods, though, the methods within don't seem to be up to snuff either. I don't know for sure, but I would wager it was due to the witch hunting practices of the church. Anyone who attempted to cross church territory (spirituality) would be hunted down and killed, and they would do their best to make sure that any knowledge that didn't fit the dogma would be lost. Buddhism and Hinduism are powerful, but I'm not aware of a central entity within them instigating a specific search and destroy mission for competing knowledge; though, I could be simply unaware! Nonetheless, it's the effect of a monopoly, a monopoly in religion. 

[Maddie]

16 minutes ago, Paradoxal said:

A lot of magical traditions include cultivation methods, though, the methods within don't seem to be up to snuff either. I don't know for sure, but I would wager it was due to the witch hunting practices of the church. Anyone who attempted to cross church territory (spirituality) would be hunted down and killed, and they would do their best to make sure that any knowledge that didn't fit the dogma would be lost. Buddhism and Hinduism are powerful, but I'm not aware of a central entity within them instigating a specific search and destroy mission for competing knowledge; though, I could be simply unaware! Nonetheless, it's the effect of a monopoly, a monopoly in religion. 

 

I still see this attitude when speaking to some evangelicals today. If it doesn't line up with what they think is proper they call it evil and satanic.

[Paradoxal]

12 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

I still see this attitude when speaking to some evangelicals today. If it doesn't line up with what they think is proper they call it evil and satanic.

I find it rather sad, but it's the result of brainwashing from childhood. The ones who started these beliefs had some serious political motives and didn't actually believe it themselves, but after generations said motives were lost and all that was left was a traditional way to teach your children. I have relatives that think this still and it does make talking to them feel like a minefield. 

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, Paradoxal said:

I find it rather sad, but it's the result of brainwashing from childhood. The ones who started these beliefs had some serious political motives and didn't actually believe it themselves, but after generations said motives were lost and all that was left was a traditional way to teach your children. I have relatives that think this still and it does make talking to them feel like a minefield. 

 

Yes and unfortunately if the West had any good cultivation techniques they were largely lost and I suppose this would explain the largely neurotic nature of society.

[Maddie]

Alan Watts once said the Church took guilt and turned it into a virtue.

 

*edit: I must add I don't say this happily as I wish there was some way to find virtue in the Church.

Edited December 28, 2020 by dmattwads

[EmeraldHead]

While the east could be said to be among the lines of Yogis, buddhas and immortals, the west has something along the lines of - Annunaki and more other development extraterrestrial souls. Just imagine, there are probably races of souls from who knows where they originate that are capable of traveling across times not just space.

 

But then, this stuff is hidden....in my opinion it is just hidden just as great yogis who can perform the 8 major siddhis from yoga are totally hidden to the public, for example.

 

A.R. Bordon (Brazillian dude) started a school to teach how to materialise out of thin air, in his lifetime. He kind of said there are lots of not very public scientists who among research and possessing some abilities such as this, they are also very intelligent and have ways of cultivating it, including selecting smart bloodlines (dna).

 

Anyway, I'm just saying look more than the church. In the west you have alchemy as well. It's a field that naturally evolves spiritual abilities (internal alchemy). You think the great siddarths in India or Daoist geniuses didn't know how to transmute matter like the alchemists? Or couldn't materialise food out of thin air like Yeshua? Their lineages are dense with food and plant elixirs.

 

My own personal opinion, the previous 100 years didn't change nothing! We on the internet on all these fancy forums can easily access as much information as any peasant could in 1,000AD! the real info and the real scale of the supernatural, hidden and 'occult' is far unknown to the average mind.

Edited December 28, 2020 by EmeraldHead

[Apech]

7 hours ago, dmattwads said:

I've often wondered why the cultivation techniques from the East IMO seem to be more advanced and effective than what we have from the West? The cultivation techniques that have come out of Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism seem to be more detailed, elaborate, and specific than anything that I know of from the West.

 

Granted the ancient Egyptians, Babylonians, Greeks, Romans, European pagans, ect might have had advanced cultivation techniques that have been lost. The Orthodox and Catholic's seem to have some techniques that mainly the mystics practice such as the Jesus prayer, writings of St. John of the Cross, and things like that, but generally less than the East. The Muslims have the Sufis, and the Jew's have Kabbala. Then when you get into Protestantism there seems to be almost no real cultivation methods besides some merit making.

 

I wonder why is this? Sure it can be said the Roman Emperors wanted to manipulate religion to consolidate power, but China and India had their fair share of power hungry leaders as well, so why didn't they replace cultivation methods with dogmas more suited to power as well?

 

Maybe there are very effective methods from the West that I am unfamiliar with, but in the sixties when people in the West began to desire better cultivation methods they generally turned towards the East.

 

So why do the methods from the East generally seem superior?

 

I've pondered this myself and I don't think political power can be the answer (as you made the point about China and India).  There does seem to be something about the further East you go the more 'inner' the approach - which is weird because East - West is a convention based on the earth spinning and not a polar distinction like North/South.  Symbolically however east = orient = origin = place of arising (sun) while West means outer, more embodied, physical etc.  So maybe this has something to do with it????

 

 

[Wilhelm]

That's a good question!  I had always counted on a few factors playing in 

• Eastern civilizations have likely been there longer
• At different times, cultivation became a key part of several cultures (India after the Sapta Rishis, Nepal, Tibet, China when the emperor was down with the Dao)
• More unbroken lines of tradition (There's still some high level Christian traditions but a far lower percentage afaik, and idk enough about Magick to comment on that other than the best practitioners I know also cross-trained in Eastern systems)
• We got hot and bothered about conquering the world, where in other parts the 'Ultimate Goal' was a little closer to home

Edited December 30, 2020 by Wilhelm

[idiot_stimpy]

I have heard that Western Traditions are more secret. Eastern was very secret too, but there has been a push in the last 30-40 years to get the teachings into the public for the sake of those who it can help. 

[Master Logray]

Cultivators in the East can practice openly and freely.  While in the West and Middle East, it is against the current religion?