What is Fear?

[Apech]

1 minute ago, ilumairen said:

I typically enjoy reading your thoughts, so thanks for joining this interesting conversation.

 

This being said, I am not certain I agree with the above theory. There are “stuck fears” which have everything to do with what has already been experienced and quite familiar and habituated modes of action.

 

Yes they are karmically imprinted records of unresolved fearful situations.

 

 

[ilumairen]

9 minutes ago, Sketch said:

I quite like this. The organs, the mind, the juicyness follows the pulsing into frozen paralysis, flight, combat or whatever else.

You seem to be referring to what is sometimes called an “emotional hijacking,” and fear which triggers reaction fueled by our “reptilian brain.”

[Sketch]

12 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

 

Which of your organs are juicy?

 

 

All of the ones that work properly.  

[Limahong]

On 12/30/2020 at 4:49 AM, anshino23 said:

This begs the question - how then do you "die before you die"?

 

Hi anshino23,

 

We "die" every moment.

 

 but  

 

We survived 2020.

 

 

 

- Anand

 

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

There are of course various types of fear - including the 'fear of God'  - which are all as far as I can tell (stand to be corrected) all a kind of energetic boundary phenomena.  By this I mean whatever the frightening thing or situation is - it is pushing one's being beyond previously established comfortable limits of activity.  Crossing lines or boundaries is a risky business - classically this would be fear of the unknown since every 'island' of the known is surrounded by a sea of unknown activity/potential.  Fear of God is exactly this because God being infinite and perfect, He transcends all limits and through life pushes us towards identity with His unlimited power and away from our cowering ego selves.

 

For non-theists substitute your own terms.  As a non-theist myself I have already done this.

 

Other fears such as the fear of a wild animal or fear of attack and so on - are mini-versions of this, as the situation presented is pushing us beyond our familiar modes of action into the unknown i.e. how does one deal with a Tiger? and so on.

 

Just my thoughts of course.

 

Growing up with a rather religious mom and going to church I always just thought "fear of god" meant obey the rules or else.

[Limahong]

Just now, dmattwads said:

Growing up with a rather religious mom and going to church I always just thought "fear of god" meant obey the rules or else.

 

 

Growing up ~ I fear mom than the "fear of god".

 

Why?

 

 

[manitou]

1 minute ago, dmattwads said:

 

Growing up with a rather religious mom and going to church I always just thought "fear of god" meant obey the rules or else.

 

 

Yes, me too.  It's amazing how much of today's Christianity is based on fear.  I read a biography of Constantine once, and if I remember correctly, Constantine had to come up with a solution for the fact that the soldiers under the command of the emperor would think nothing of beheading any ruler if they didn't agree with him.  So he organized the framework of Christianity as a fear mechanism so that the soldiers would be too fearful to behead him.  And I believe that he had several historical figures in mind for the centerpiece of this framework - Jesus of Nazareth, John the Baptist, and Appolonia (not sure of the spelling on that one).  Constantine chose Jesus.

 

I read this quite a while ago, and my memory may be faulty on this, FWIW.  But that was the basic gist of it.

[ilumairen]

9 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

Growing up with a rather religious mom and going to church I always just thought "fear of god" meant obey the rules or else.

An oddity from my own childhood:

 

My mother while we attended mass used to whisper to me about the “hand of God” and how this giant thumb was going to descend through the large skylight above the alter and crush me for being bad. Never mind the fact I had yet to work out how I was so bad, I waited and watched week after week for this giant thumb to come and crush my little bug like in the face of his enormity self - which of course never happened.

 

The out take however was not the destruction of me, but that of any fear of God, or whatever b.s. people wanted to tell me about him..

[ilumairen]

8 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

Yes, me too.  It's amazing how much of today's Christianity is based on fear.  I read a biography of Constantine once, and if I remember correctly, Constantine had to come up with a solution for the fact that the soldiers under the command of the emperor would think nothing of beheading any ruler if they didn't agree with him.  So he organized the framework of Christianity as a fear mechanism so that the soldiers would be too fearful to behead him.  And I believe that he had several historical figures in mind for the centerpiece of this framework - Jesus of Nazareth, John the Baptist, and Appolonia (not sure of the spelling on that one).  Constantine chose Jesus.

 

I read this quite a while ago, and my memory may be faulty on this, FWIW.  But that was the basic gist of it.

I thought he converted after a battle was won under the banner of this “new god.” 

[manitou]

On 12/29/2020 at 12:49 PM, anshino23 said:

 

This begs the question - how then do you "die before you die"?  

 

 

In my understanding, this means to tame the ego, because the ego is a result of our conditioning.  One can start from where they are.  If and when you get into a snit about something, or get into a spat with someone - this is a perfect time to freeze the dynamic and look at the part you played in it.  Be ruthlessly honest with yourself, don't place blame on anyone or anything.  See your part in the misunderstanding, and see if there isn't a little memory from childhood that springs to mind when this dynamic is observed.  If there is a snippet of a memory, this is the dynamic that needs to be reversed.

 

To reverse a dynamic, sometimes awareness of the dynamic and its origin are sufficient, if you are the sort of person who is not afraid to be impeccable about seeing yourself as you really are, and have the motivation required for this.  Sometimes it is very helpful to actually have a ceremony where the initial dynamic is reversed.  Healings have been accomplished with both methods.

 

The motivation for me to do this self-examination was mandatory as I was recovering from alcoholism.  Then there came a point where the alcoholism was no longer important; it was merely the starting point.  The important thing was enlightenment, and once that desire is in the heart, the big throbbing ego is reduced to history.

[manitou]

5 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

I thought he converted after a battle was won under the banner of this “new god.” 

 

 

I think he was the perpetrator.  And I do specifically remember that he had to make a choice as to who he thought should be the central figure.

[ilumairen]

32 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

I think he was the perpetrator.  And I do specifically remember that he had to make a choice as to who he thought should be the central figure.

This is what I am referring to:

 

http://www.historytoday.com/archive/battle-milvian-bridge

 

Are you referring to the Council of Nicaea?

[old3bob]

Some of the posts here reminded me of that saying, "he who hesitates is lost";  which can be a form of fear related to doubts operating in us which can stymie the will to act or react .  Some dicey situations give little or no room or time for hesitation;   thus the person who does not hesitate in such situations  can "get into the zone" and pull through even if they were not fully prepared, being that there are situations where one can never be fully prepared for, thus only engage in at the moment.   (along with a fine line of not being foolish having some bearing)

[Maddie]

55 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

An oddity from my own childhood:

 

My mother while we attended mass used to whisper to me about the “hand of God” and how this giant thumb was going to descend through the large skylight above the alter and crush me for being bad. Never mind the fact I had yet to work out how I was so bad, I waited and watched week after week for this giant thumb to come and crush my little bug like in the face of his enormity self - which of course never happened.

 

The out take however was not the destruction of me, but that of any fear of God, or whatever b.s. people wanted to tell me about him..

 

“Christianity institulionalised guilt as a virtue.” - Alan Watts

[ilumairen]

12 minutes ago, old3bob said:

Some of the posts here reminded me of that saying, "he who hesitates is lost";  which can be a form of fear related to doubts operating in us which can stymie the will to act or react .  Some dicey situations give little or no room or time for hesitation;   thus the person who does not hesitate in such situations  can "get into the zone" and pull through even if they were not fully prepared, being that there are situations where one can never be fully prepared for, thus only engage in at the moment.   (along with a fine line of not being foolish having some bearing)

This rather relates to second guessing inner guidance, intuition, or whatever one wants to call it.. maybe an example of paralysis by analysis.. 

 

How many times have things “gone awry” owing predominantly to thinking too much, and it is later realized if one hadn’t “drown out” the “quiet still voice” with analysis and the narrative of self doubt things may have gone quite differently?

[Sketch]

I realized years ago that my first impulse is generally correct. If I twist around and decide, it just wastes energy. 

[Cleansox]

On the other hand, a person that does "quick and dirty" decisions (on the other side of the spectrum from overthinking) is at risk of repeating behaviours that aren't adequate in the current situation. 

[liminal_luke]

I´d like to rescue the concept of "fear of God" from the clutches of faux-spiritual religious terrorists who seek control.  We are not meant to fear God in the same way we might fear death or taxes.  Fearing God, we can learn to stop fearing everything else. Try substituting the word awe for fear and the word universe for God.  Better?  Instead of cultivating fear of God we can cultivate a sense of awe in the face of the immensity of the universe.  I think this comes closer to the true meaning of fear of God.

Edited January 1, 2021 by liminal_luke

[ilumairen]

14 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

On the other hand, a person that does "quick and dirty" decisions (on the other side of the spectrum from overthinking) is at risk of repeating behaviours that aren't adequate in the current situation. 

Yeah, part of why I mentioned the “quiet still voice”... you gotta connect with this quiet and stillness first, “make friends with it,” develop trust in it, and then “simply” (which isn’t necessarily to say easily) move with “it’s guidance” - which is neither habituated reaction (what I would label what you’ve described) or overly intellectualized (what I described).

 

Thanks for bringing up the other extreme, and nice to “see” you.

[Limahong]

I get better and better when I overcome fear after fear. 

 

So fear is good for living forward? 

[Apech]

3 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

Growing up with a rather religious mom and going to church I always just thought "fear of god" meant obey the rules or else.

 

originally it meant trembling in the presence of God's spirit.

[Limahong]

1 minute ago, Limahong said:

I get better and better when I overcome fear after fear. 

 

So fear is good for living forward? 

 

It is difficult for me to surface myself when I find it difficult to face fear? 

 

[Taomeow]

We have nothing to fear but the fearful themselves

[Limahong]

 

From a Taoist perspective ~ courage is borne out of fear; and fear is there to hone courage?

 

If so... LIFE... goes on... and on...

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Limahong
Enhancement

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

Which of your organs are juicy?

 

 

 

 

 

"  My dear chap   .......   they all are  !  "