What is Fear?

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, sagebrush said:

I take refuge in the Buddha the Dharma and Sangha- 

just is not my language.

it doesnt honor my lifes canvas completely.

I had to retrace steps to Christianity and make my way. my way includes partaking in religion of Orthodox faith.

responding to the black. didnt read anything else on fear

and like poetry I think it would be difficult to discuss fear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You seem to be developing a propensity to comment on various subjects  / philosophies / paths   here that people are discussing and saying how it isnt for you but how great Christianity is   - on a Daoist forum.

 

And then if you are questioned further about  your statements    .......      not forthcoming .

 

 

[thelerner]

4 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

Since karma is created by volitional acts, killing that involves no volition would have no karma. For example, if you are walking down the sidewalk and you accidentally step on a bug and kill it but you have no idea that you even did it or were about to do it, then there would be no karma created in such a situation. 

Been watching the old Japanese black and white series Lone Wolf and Cub on Youtube.  The master samurai kills off the bad guys each episode, and half the time killing off good guys.  Usually, ones who secretly or so secretly yearn for death.  There's one episode in the manga where he actually does kill off a Buddha.  

 

I'm sure the series influenced many 'Spaghetti' Westerns featuring Clint Eastwood's man with no name, stoic characters.

 

[Sketch]

4 minutes ago, thelerner said:

Been watching the old Japanese black and white series Lone Wolf and Cub on Youtube.  The master samurai kills off the bad guys each episode, and half the time killing off good guys.  Usually, ones who secretly or so secretly yearn for death.  There's one episode in the manga where he actually does kill off a Buddha.  

 

I'm sure the series influenced many 'Spaghetti' Westerns featuring Clint Eastwood's man with no name, stoic characters.

 

I watched the spaghetti westerns with my dad growing up; I was so pleased in college to discover Kurasawa's "Seven Samurai " and the rest of Samurai Cinema and share much of it with him. 

 

Which gives me a special poignant link to the father-son interaction in "Lone Wolf and Cub". Never watched those with dad.

[sagebrush]

50 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

You seem to be developing a propensity to comment on various subjects  / philosophies / paths   here that people are discussing and saying how it isnt for you but how great Christianity is   - on a Daoist forum.

 

And then if you are questioned further about  your statements    .......      not forthcoming .

 

 

I dont think that I say how great it is.......its got its plus and minus.

 

Is there something specific Nungali that you need me to answer?

 

Do we all have to fit into an exact box? I find  its benefitting me to further my study of Christianity.

 

I still like reading at Dao Bums as I can manage.

 

 

 

[Sketch]

In fact, my dad and I watching action movies brings it back to the topic; my dad's company was in a competitive position in relation to the Japanese steel industry in the sixties, so I heard a few anti Asian statements at the dinner table. Sharing Kurosawa in the eighties gave us an opportunity to talk through a lot of that. A father is in a precarious position, with fears the child cannot understand. 

 

Man he would have loved "Lone Wolf and Cub "

Edited December 31, 2020 by Sketch

[ilumairen]

12 minutes ago, sagebrush said:

I dont think that I say how great it is.......its got its plus and minus.

 

Is there something specific Nungali that you need me to answer?

 

Do we all have to fit into an exact box? I find  its benefitting me to further my study of Christianity.

 

I still like reading at Dao Bums as I can manage.

 

I would like if some of your comments were further explained or elucidated upon in some manner - otherwise they simply seem dismissive or proclaimational without being in much of any way at all conversational. 
 

Which then rather unfortunately equates to pointless to respond to for me personally (and perhaps other members as well, although I have noticed some continue to try to engage with you, and can only surmise they are nicer, or perhaps friendlier than myself).

[ilumairen]

7 minutes ago, Sketch said:

In fact, my dad and I watching action movies brings it back to the topic; my dad's company was in a competitive position in relation to the Japanese steel industry in the sixties, so I heard a few anti Asian statements at the dinner table. Sharing Kurosawa in the eighties gave us an opportunity to talk through a lot of that. A father is in a precarious position, with fears the child cannot understand. 

 

Man he would have loved "Lone Wolf and Cub "

Over the years I have found it interesting how easily the fears of a parent can be placed upon a child - becoming a hereditary sort of karma the child then eventually has to work through (or not) hopefully healing both themselves and the parent in the process.

[Sketch]

So many examples of this, in every direction, I can see from my own lifetime.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Sketch

[sagebrush]

36 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

I would like if some of your comments were further explained or elucidated upon in some manner - otherwise they simply seem dismissive or proclaimational without being in much of any way at all conversational. 
 

Which then rather unfortunately equates to pointless to respond to for me personally (and perhaps other members as well, although I have noticed some continue to try to engage with you, and can only surmise they are nicer, or perhaps friendlier than myself).

Its been a long day. I am not that friendly. Not much of a conversationalist. A bit of a fighter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by sagebrush

[ilumairen]

Just now, sagebrush said:

Its been a long day. I am not that friendly. Not much of a conversationalist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well then take care, and please do forgive me if I simply ignore your one-sided non-conversational pronouncements in the future.

[sagebrush]

3 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

Well then take care, and please do forgive me if I simply ignore your one-sided non-conversational pronouncements in the future.

Sometimes ignoring is good medicine.(for me)

[ilumairen]

11 minutes ago, sagebrush said:

Sometimes ignoring is good medicine.(for me)

If you ever are looking for a response please feel welcome to let me know..

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, sagebrush said:

Its been a long day. I am not that friendly. Not much of a conversationalist. A bit of a fighter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and they are nearly always edited  ......  with a long gap after the post .

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, ilumairen said:

Over the years I have found it interesting how easily the fears of a parent can be placed upon a child - becoming a hereditary sort of karma the child then eventually has to work through (or not) hopefully healing both themselves and the parent in the process.

 

Yes and of course, not just parents . But I have noticed a resultant dynamic of two types ; the more common  is as you say, the less common seems an opposite response  - to  go against the attempt at conditioning .

 

I have a friend who went through the same  'attempt at suppression' process  , same age , same type of school . He seems 'damaged' by it  is still  vulnerable to other similar attempts from elsewhere .   Myself on the other hand , rebelled against  it and it made me some what 'reactive', on guard, liberated and for the 'underdog' . 

 

Go  Underdog !

 

 

 

 

.... Underdog is here !

[Maddie]

2 hours ago, sagebrush said:

Sometimes ignoring is good medicine.(for me)

 

To be honest I think it would be interesting if you shared more. I'd like to learn more about Orthodoxy.

[thelerner]

3 hours ago, Sketch said:

In fact, my dad and I watching action movies brings it back to the topic; my dad's company was in a competitive position in relation to the Japanese steel industry in the sixties, so I heard a few anti Asian statements at the dinner table. Sharing Kurosawa in the eighties gave us an opportunity to talk through a lot of that. A father is in a precarious position, with fears the child cannot understand. 

 

Man he would have loved "Lone Wolf and Cub "

I bet. 

My mom would occasionally take me out of school to see a play or Bruce Lee and Kung Fu flicks together.  Good times.  

[liminal_luke]

2 hours ago, sagebrush said:

Its been a long day. I am not that friendly. Not much of a conversationalist. A bit of a fighter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

54 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

and they are nearly always edited  ......  with a long gap after the post .

 

Sagebrush has a harsh beauty but I wouldn´t say it´s the friendliest of plants.  You don´t have to be an expert botanist to tell the difference between sagebrush and, say, a petunia.  Sagebrush grows in wide open country, not unlike our Bums posts -- more space than words.  I´m partial to petunias myself but lots of folks prefer the high lonesome character of sagebrush land.

[Nungali]

 

[Rara]

I spent years and years training martial arts to help build confidence and eliminate fear, yet last night, I froze when asked to make the salmon roles.

 

To experience anything that throws us out of our "norm" can induce fear but I always think our training at least helps if we try to apply it to everything.

 

My hat off to you for the way you handled it...the most important thing is that no one got hurt. Also for your profession, it's very admirable

[Sketch]

Rory Miller, in his writings on violence and situational awareness, talks about fear a lot. A person can be a trained fighter, experienced at hand to hand- and go weak in the belly when blades come out. And every possible variation- a brave person can still fear heights. Finn the Human fears the sea.

[ilumairen]

1 hour ago, Sketch said:

Rory Miller, in his writings on violence and situational awareness, talks about fear a lot. A person can be a trained fighter, experienced at hand to hand- and go weak in the belly when blades come out. And every possible variation- a brave person can still fear heights. Finn the Human fears the sea.

As TM pointed out earlier (in different words) there are what I would refer to as “valid fears” - an attacker with a weapon one may not be trained to handle, heights, and “the sea” can all be valid threats to one’s continued existence. And as such, unless taken to extremes, a fear (when presented with such) would indicate a healthy functioning human experience.

 

At which point, for me, the focus would then shift from theoretical ideas of fearlessness and transcendence to fully experiencing what arises without a forced or faked form of bypassing - which is (imo) a pale shadow to what “true masters” refer to. (And has also been mentioned in this thread as something of a “danger zone” for cultivators.)

Edited January 1, 2021 by ilumairen
Punctuation

[Apech]

There are of course various types of fear - including the 'fear of God'  - which are all as far as I can tell (stand to be corrected) all a kind of energetic boundary phenomena.  By this I mean whatever the frightening thing or situation is - it is pushing one's being beyond previously established comfortable limits of activity.  Crossing lines or boundaries is a risky business - classically this would be fear of the unknown since every 'island' of the known is surrounded by a sea of unknown activity/potential.  Fear of God is exactly this because God being infinite and perfect, He transcends all limits and through life pushes us towards identity with His unlimited power and away from our cowering ego selves.

 

For non-theists substitute your own terms.  As a non-theist myself I have already done this.

 

Other fears such as the fear of a wild animal or fear of attack and so on - are mini-versions of this, as the situation presented is pushing us beyond our familiar modes of action into the unknown i.e. how does one deal with a Tiger? and so on.

 

Just my thoughts of course.

[Sketch]

1 minute ago, Apech said:

There are of course various types of fear which are all as far as I can tell (stand to be corrected) all a kind of energetic boundary phenomena.  By this I mean whatever the frightening thing or situation is - it is pushing one's being beyond previously established comfortable limits of activity.  

I quite like this. The organs, the mind, the juicyness follows the pulsing into frozen paralysis, flight, combat or whatever else.

[Apech]

1 minute ago, Sketch said:

I quite like this. The organs, the mind, the juicyness follows the pulsing into frozen paralysis, flight, combat or whatever else.

 

 

Which of your organs are juicy?

 

 

[ilumairen]

10 minutes ago, Apech said:

Other fears such as the fear of a wild animal or fear of attack and so on - are mini-versions of this, as the situation presented is pushing us beyond our familiar modes of action into the unknown i.e. how does one deal with a Tiger? and so on.

 

Just my thoughts of course.

I typically enjoy reading your thoughts, so thanks for joining this interesting conversation.

 

This being said, I am not certain I agree with the above theory. There are “stuck fears” which have everything to do with what has already been experienced and quite familiar and habituated modes of action.