We have a vaccine!

[Paradoxal]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

Almost everything we do effects other people.  As a society we´ve decided that heroin use and driving without a seatbelt are illegal.  Dominos pizza and bungee jumping, permitted.  The lines seem somewhat random to me.

I think that most of our rules and laws generally are rather random, and rather inconsequential. Most of these are due to biases of pathetic people spreading like a plague and eventually getting put into law. That said, there's a line that I think is quite important to draw when it comes to matters that are life and death. For things such as vaccinations, not getting one could literally cause deaths other than your own to happen, so it should indeed be illegal to refuse (unless you have medical reason not to. Religious reason be damned.) The same should be said of acting risky. We arrest drunk drivers because they endanger the lives of others with their reckless behavior. We should do the same to those who actively spread viruses. 

 

A question I'd like to posit:

 

Getting the virus is likely to be incredibly harmful or lethal. With that in mind, what difference is there between spreading the virus through reckless action compared with cutting someone while swinging a sword recklessly?

 

I would argue that both are the same action in motive and effect, so should be treated the same. If I were to shoot someone, I wouldn't be able to get off scot free by claiming "I don't believe guns can hurt people!", so why should we care if delusional fools don't "believe" in a real virus? Lock them up and let them figure it out for themselves while not endangering the rest of us. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Paradoxal
Added spacing to clarify points

[doc benway]

36 minutes ago, Paradoxal said:

A question I'd like to posit:

 

Getting the virus is likely to be incredibly harmful or lethal. With that in mind, what difference is there between spreading the virus through reckless action compared with cutting someone while swinging a sword recklessly?

 

One difference is that it is easy to see and demonstrate the direct consequences of cutting someone while recklessly swinging a sword. In any given situation it is far more difficult to identify with confidence where and when one contacted a virus, whether or not one will transmit it, whether one will get sick if exposed, how sick they will get, the safety of a rushed, experimental vaccine, etc... 

 

I have considerable respect for and confidence in allopathic health care, probably more than most here. I also recognize its limitations and potential for abuse. The currently available vaccines are essentially prototypes with extremely limited data to support them relative to all other vaccines. It's a new technology and we're in uncharted territory. Mandating an experimental and invasive technology with criminal penalties for refusal would have very far reaching consequences that are more frightening to me than the vaccine itself, or even the disease.

 

Taking the vaccine was an easy decision for me based on my unique circumstances. I acknowledge that is not the case for everyone. I feel compassion for those that are struggling with the decision and for those affected by Covid. I also understand why many people have limited confidence in allopathic care. I'm not sure how far I would be willing to go to force a rapidly developed vaccine using unprecedented technology on those who are skeptical. FWIW, the hospitals I work in are not requiring anyone take the vaccine. A little surprising given that they do mandate the influenza vaccine. 

[natural]

And I would bet, any hospital would require testing for TB.

And treatment for a positive infection indication.

[doc benway]

2 hours ago, natural said:

And I would bet, any hospital would require testing for TB.

And treatment for a positive infection indication.

Yes 

PS - but not mandated by law for the gen pop, at least not in the states 

[natural]

Thanks. That is my understanding as well.

[Toni]

And now what? 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9119431/Miami-doctor-58-dies-three-weeks-receiving-Pfizer-Covid-19-vaccine.html

Edited January 8, 2021 by Toni

[doc benway]

Very sad.

I’m going for my second Pfizer dose Monday.

[Bindi]

9 hours ago, Toni said:

And now what? 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9119431/Miami-doctor-58-dies-three-weeks-receiving-Pfizer-Covid-19-vaccine.html

“The Miami-Dade County Medical Examiner’s office said that, as of now, Michael’s cause of death has not been determined and said the results may take several week.” https://www.local10.com/news/local/2021/01/07/did-miami-beach-doctor-56-die-from-receiving-covid-19-vaccine/
 

Best to wait for the actual results, remember the nurse who already had a history of fainting? 

[old3bob]

those who willfully ignore simple precautions like distancing and masks should be legally recorded as doing so and then put on the  bottom of the cue to get medical care for covid since they are willfully putting medical people and everyone else in danger through very risky, arrogant and ignorant actions as proven by common sense medical science that doesn't need a PHD to understand.  (the details of this idea would take a lot of work to put in place but it seems just to me )

[liminal_luke]

On 9/1/2021 at 6:09 AM, old3bob said:

those who willfully ignore simple precautions like distancing and masks should be legally recorded as doing so and then put on the  bottom of the cue to get medical care for covid since they are willfully putting medical people and everyone else in danger through very risky, arrogant and ignorant actions as proven by common sense medical science that doesn't need a PHD to understand.  (the details of this idea would take a lot of work to put in place but it seems just to me )

 

I get the logic but would rather not go there.  There´s lots of criticize about our medical system, but one thing I like is that medical care isn´t withheld from those deemed "bad."  We treat lung cancer patients who smoke, hypertensive patients who are overweight, and addicts who do all the things that addicts do.  There´s something beautiful about this.  I´d rather doctors stay out of the business of evaluating deservingness.

[Apech]

On 1/9/2021 at 2:09 PM, old3bob said:

those who willfully ignore simple precautions like distancing and masks should be legally recorded as doing so and then put on the  bottom of the cue to get medical care for covid since they are willfully putting medical people and everyone else in danger through very risky, arrogant and ignorant actions as proven by common sense medical science that doesn't need a PHD to understand.  (the details of this idea would take a lot of work to put in place but it seems just to me )

 

https://www.medicinenet.com/hippocratic_oath/definition.htm

 

 

[sagebrush]

On 1/3/2021 at 8:38 PM, Paradoxal said:

so why should we care if delusional fools don't "believe" in a real virus?

There are many perspectives beyond yours and beyond your understanding and beyond the understandings of how others may agree with your understandings or not.

 

Lets say for myself-I was lucky in the beginning of the pandemic to have a selection of N95 masks because of my profession. I used them immediately. I remember walking into the grocery store and this was just the beginning of being told to wear masks over the news local/statewide.

 

"believe" in a real virus doesn't affect me.

 

what I believe in is taking precautions. I dont need to concern myself with delusional others or others.

 

Big Pharma also kills people far larger numbers than coronavirus. Not to say Big Pharma cant be helpful at times.

 

Plenty of people are not delusional because they have superior developed immunity through nutrition, discipline, and fresh air and work, and they dont get involved with the fear tactics and games-and they may choose no vaccine.what they decide is their choice.

 

Once again I said regarding my immunization is once the choice is available to me I then make my own choice. What anyone else thinks is not my concern albeit good or bad.

 

 

I have to Edit because I want to add 

 

 

 

 

just take in the first minute. there is a cure for cancer. maybe not ever bit of cancer on this planet-

but there are healings. guess where the Gerson Institute is today? baja california.

 

 

So Toni you may want to reconsider thank you to my post.

My views are radically different than your own-most likely

and I am really only interested in my own focus and study

 

Can you answer why? 

 

Charlotte Gerson over her dead body would not have taken the immunization. 

Charlotte Gerson was a true healer as was her father and the Institute is helping people today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by sagebrush

[old3bob]

3 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I get the logic but would rather not go there.  There´s lots of criticize about our medical system, but one thing I like is that medical care isn´t withheld from those deemed "bad."  We treat lung cancer patients who smoke, hypertensive patients who are overweight, and addicts who do all the things that addicts do.  There´s something beautiful about this.  I´d rather doctors stay out of the business of evaluating deservingness.

 

right it should not be doctors but the legal system for those that break the agreed upon laws.

[KuroShiro]

Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg Takes ‘Anti-Vax’ Stance in Violation of His Own Platform's New Policy

 

 

 

 

[thelerner]

On 2/17/2021 at 6:58 PM, KuroShiro said:

Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg Takes ‘Anti-Vax’ Stance in Violation of His Own Platform's New Policy

 

I think the video it referred to is from July 2020.  He expressed caution, in the past, before the vaccines and the data and testing came out.    You may want to compare his current stance with Facebook policy.  Or his July 2020 stance with what it was pre-vaccine Facebook policy.  There's a good chance it will change again in 2022 or 2023, cause more data and different vaccines will be available.      

[KuroShiro]

6 minutes ago, thelerner said:

I think the video it referred to is from July 2020.  He expressed caution, in the past, before the vaccines and the data and testing came out.    You may want to compare his current stance with Facebook policy.  Or his July 2020 stance with what it was pre-vaccine Facebook policy.  There's a good chance it will change again in 2022 or 2023, cause more data and different vaccines will be available.      

 

Watch the video again, carefully.

You're not paying attention...

[thelerner]

17 minutes ago, KuroShiro said:

 

Watch the video again, carefully.

You're not paying attention...

I'd rather not waste 5 precious minutes.  If you want to spend a minute or two explaining or rebutting what I said, fine.  But I don't consider Veritas to be a very accurate source. 

Is the point, you're anti-vax and searching the web for anything that will back it up, even if its past views that people no longer hold today?

[Taomeow]

15 hours ago, thelerner said:

I'd rather not waste 5 precious minutes. (...)  I don't consider Veritas to be a very accurate source. 

 

The Babylon Bee agrees!  

 

 

 

 

U.S.

Project Veritas Shunned By Journalists For Practicing Journalism

December 1st, 2020

 

U.S.—According to sources, a small band of guerrilla journalists known as Project Veritas is coming under fire for practicing actual journalism.

 

"Apparently these guys didn't get the memo that 'journalism' is just a funny word we made up so people will think we're important and listen to us," said CNN President Jeff Zucker after hours of his morning conference calls were leaked by Project Veritas. "These guys actually think journalists are supposed to do journalism when everyone knows that journalists are just here to write the narrative that serves our own agenda! These guys are doing it all wrong!" 

Brian Stelter wept uncontrollably after hearing the news of the leaks. "Who do these so-called 'journalists' think they are?" he said. "They don't wear nice suits or have expensive sets. They don't even dox random private citizens!"

Sources say that this strange group of citizen journalists has somehow been able to find incredible news stories about corruption and criminality without any of the resources of massive news corporations.

"We're not sure exactly how they do this, but we're pretty sure it's not real journalism," said Zucker. "Please -- do not pay any attention to them. We're pretty sure they're discredited according to official sources that we endorse. We hope you'll stay tuned to CNN for authoritative news stories on when to get your first colonoscopy and why the orange man is bad."