Which teaching got your attention

[EmeraldHead]

Was just reading the wiki article for the skhandas. quote:

 

"

The Tathāgatagarbha Sutras, treating the idea of the Buddha-nature, developed in India but played a prominent role in China. The tathagatagarbha-sutras, on occasion, speak of the ineffable skandhas of the Buddha (beyond the nature of worldly skandhas and beyond worldly understanding). In the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra the Buddha tells of how the Buddha's skandhas are in fact eternal and unchanging. The Buddha's skandhas are said to be incomprehensible to unawakened vision.

"

Maybe not relevant but was surprised to find this, I wanted to share it somewhere

 

so what Mahayana Buddhists call Sambogakaya and Dharmakaya also have skhandas. 'Divine' fields of chi/energy that are not brain based or physical body meridian dependent. Hence if a normal person got a transmission of one of those they wouldn't feel anything or worse haha!, not even notice any change in their mentation/decision making/moods. But an Arahant would be fully capable of seeing the change from the increased 'divine' chi now present in the respective...soul/creature/whatever buddhism defines it as, I'm not sure actually.

 

Did Gautama ever answer WHAT he was? not a self, not a nonself...but what?

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by EmeraldHead

[Maddie]

13 minutes ago, EmeraldHead said:

Was just reading the wiki article for the skhandas. quote:

 

"

The Tathāgatagarbha Sutras, treating the idea of the Buddha-nature, developed in India but played a prominent role in China. The tathagatagarbha-sutras, on occasion, speak of the ineffable skandhas of the Buddha (beyond the nature of worldly skandhas and beyond worldly understanding). In the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra the Buddha tells of how the Buddha's skandhas are in fact eternal and unchanging. The Buddha's skandhas are said to be incomprehensible to unawakened vision.

"

Maybe not relevant but was surprised to find this, I wanted to share it somewhere

 

so what Mahayana Buddhists call Sambogakaya and Dharmakaya also have skhandas. 'Divine' fields of chi/energy that are not brain based or physical body meridian dependent. Hence if a normal person got a transmission of one of those they wouldn't feel anything or worse haha!, not even notice any change in their mentation/decision making/moods. But an Arahant would be fully capable of seeing the change from the increased 'divine' chi now present in the respective...soul/creature/whatever buddhism defines it as, I'm not sure actually.

 

Did Gautama ever answer WHAT he was? not a self, not a nonself...but what?

 

 

Then perhaps this is a difference between Pali cannon Buddhism and Mahayana.

[idiot_stimpy]

Mahamudra at first, then Dzogchen. 

[Keith108]

On 1/5/2021 at 8:23 AM, Maddie said:

Needless to say the Buddha taught a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

 

Just to name a few there are the five aggregates, the 12 Links of dependent origination, the seven factors of enlightenment, the three poisons of greed hatred and delusion, the four Noble truths along with the eightfold path, the five hindrances and many others.

 

It seems like one thing gets one person's attention and another thing gets someone else's attention.

 

The teaching that initially got my attention was the four Noble truths, specifically the second Noble Truth that desire is the cause of suffering. This still seems to be my main focus in Buddhism and the thing that makes the most sense to me.

 

I wonder which teachings got other people's attention and what teachings are other people's primary approach and practice?

 

I had the same experience when I took a survey of Asian religions course as an elective in college. Once I learned about the Four Noble Truths, that was that. I was hooked. This was in 1991, and I am still at it. I'm endlessly grateful for the practice, which I feel quite literally saved my life. 

 

The primary practice I follow is in my signature, and also keeping the precepts. 

 

_/|\_

 

 

 

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, Keith108 said:

 

I had the same experience when I took a survey of Asian religions course as an elective in college. Once I learned about the Four Noble Truths, that was that. I was hooked. This was in 1991, and I am still at it. I'm endlessly grateful for the practice, which I feel quite literally saved my life. 

 

The primary practice I follow is in my signature, and also keeping the precepts. 

 

_/|\_

 

 

 

 

I also became introduced to Buddhism in a college class, history of Japan. :-)

[silent thunder]

Among specifically buddhist oriented offerings... it would be chan/zen for me.

 

DT and Shunryu Suzuki in particular.  Encountering them was Vajra for me, an instant recognition and realization of how I'd been living in my own natural process since the time of my childhood and that this was the source of my inability to reconcile the world view of my upbringing and childhood conditioning and my inevitable apostacy from it.

 

But I only encountered the Suzuki's and chan after many years immersion in Lakota teachings of the Rosebud lineage via Wallace Black Elk and a deep exploration of Shamanic Norse^(Sami) cosmologies which were my apostacy from evangelical christianity.

 

Of late I'm remarkably resonant and appreciative of the developing and emerging clarity of the Idealism framing that Bernardo Kastrup is so adroitly crafting and sharing.  I expect it will have an innate ability to harmonize with Western mindsets that is exciting in its potential impact on daily mentation.

[Cobie]

.

Edited February 11 by Cobie

[snowymountains]

For me it wasn't a teaching it was meditation, as its effects are direct.

 

I see the teachings as supporting material for meditation and overall practice ( not just sitting-time ). They need context, commentary, a teacher and studying them is important.

But no teaching is complete, they're all partial views and should be used in the context where they're relevant.

 

That said, the no-death, no-birth Mahayana teaching is the one that resonates most, Plum Village has almost elevated it to slogan levels 🙂

[Maddie]

10 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

But no teaching is complete, they're all partial views and should be used in the context where they're relevant.

 

I'm contemplating this at the moment. Like I said I am baffled that the Pali Canon says nothing about the side effects of meditation. 

[snowymountains]

7 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

I'm contemplating this at the moment. Like I said I am baffled that the Pali Canon says nothing about the side effects of meditation. 

 

It doesn't say anything about lots of stuff tbh 😁

 

So a reasonable takeaway is read the Pali Canon ( which is an amazing piece of work ) and read other stuff too, complement it with other teachings/research/philosophies which set the quality bar as high as the Buddha did for his teachings 😉

 

It never ends and it's a process, we'll always, practice, embody, read and so on.

[Maddie]

5 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

It doesn't say anything about lots of stuff tbh 😁

 

So a reasonable takeaway is read the Pali Canon ( which is an amazing piece of work ) and read other stuff too, complement it with other teachings/research/philosophies which set the quality bar as high as the Buddha did for his teachings 😉

 

It never ends and it's a process, we'll always, practice, embody, read and so on.

 

I have noticed in Theravada circles physical exercise does not have a very high priority, but nothing really helps me feel better than after a good jujitsu class. 

[snowymountains]

1 minute ago, Maddie said:

 

I have noticed in Theravada circles physical exercise does not have a very high priority, but nothing really helps me feel better than after a good jujitsu class. 

 

Keep practicing!

 

The practice is great. The teachers are, in my experience at least, happy people that are a joy to interact with.

The practice still is highly beneficial and there's so much to gain by studying the Pali Canon.

It doesn't need to have everything for it to be good.

 

Do you drop your bjj because it says nothing about striking? No...

 

Plus, I can tell you this, outside Theravada, meditation instructions only go downhill 😂

 

Requiring of anyone, including Bhikkhus, knowledge of an absolute truth is too much to ask for.

How can someone give you something that doesn't exist..

[Maddie]

18 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

Keep practicing!

 

The practice is great. The teachers are, in my experience at least, happy people that are a joy to interact with.

The practice still is highly beneficial and there's so much to gain by studying the Pali Canon.

It doesn't need to have everything for it to be good.

 

Do you drop your bjj because it says nothing about striking? No...

 

Plus, I can tell you this, outside Theravada, meditation instructions only go downhill 😂

 

Requiring of anyone, including Bhikkhus, knowledge of an absolute truth is too much to ask for.

How can someone give you something that doesn't exist..

 

I'm not going to ditch Theravada lol, I'm just thinking out loud. I'm acknowledging some of your points if I think you have them because I'm just that way :-)

Edited February 11 by Maddie

[Mark Foote]

On 1/5/2021 at 10:19 AM, EmeraldHead said:

 

Did Gautama ever answer WHAT he was? not a self, not a nonself...but what?

 

 

 

Your worship will become a deva?

No indeed, brahmin.  I'll not become a deva.

Then your worship will become a gandarva?

No indeed, brahmin, I'll not become a gandarva.

A yakka, then?

No indeed, brahmin.  Not a yakka.

Then your worship will become a human being?

No indeed, brahmin.  I'll not become a human being.

... Who then, pray, will your worship become?
... Just as, brahmin, a lotus, blue, red, or white, though born in the water, grown up in the water, when it reaches the surface stands there unsoiled by the water,--just so, brahmin, though born in the world, grown up in the world, having overcome the world, I abide unsoiled by the world.  Take it that I am a Buddha, brahmin.

(AN Book of Fours 36, Pali Text Society AN Vol 2 p 44)
 

[Mark Foote]

On 1/5/2021 at 5:23 AM, Maddie said:

 

The teaching that initially got my attention was the four Noble truths, specifically the second Noble Truth that desire is the cause of suffering. This still seems to be my main focus in Buddhism and the thing that makes the most sense to me.

 

I wonder which teachings got other people's attention and what teachings are other people's primary approach and practice?
 

The classic cases of Ch'an and Zen were what got my attention.  Read a lot of Alan Watts, back in the high school days, but although I understood what he had to say, I was not satisfied with my mind.  A friend turned me on to the zazen instructions in the back of "Three Pillars of Zen", so I began to sit--it was hard to sit even five minutes with my legs crossed, at first.

In college, a friend took me down to hear Kobun Chino Otogawa speak at the Santa Cruz Zen Center, in California.  I attended a number of his lectures, and found him remarkable.

In about 1975, I found a copy of Henry Clarke Warren's "Buddhism in Translations".  The material from Buddhaghosa's Visuddhimagga was clearly garbage to me, and there's a lot of it in Warren's work, but the material from the Nikayas about the concentrations fascinated me.  In the early '80's, I bought the books of the first four Nikayas from the Pali Text Society, and over the course of a few years read them.

They're not different from Zen, when you get right down to it (A reconciliation of Theravadin and Zen practice).