Money

[Sketch]

13 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Do you think that the VAST majority of people in the world that dont have much money  have beliefs that stop them getting money ?

 

Nah !  Its just that the rich have those peoples share of the  money !

 

There is only so much money ... its a matter of transfer .... we could try  a talismanic  spell   

 

 

 

     $$$$$$$$$    >>>>>>>>>>  

 

 

If laughter adds to manna (or whatever) then that working might have some legs.

[idiot_stimpy]

Run your bank account like you would a business.

 

More money coming in than money coming out. If you stick with this you will always stay level or increase.

 

Hard to do when the money coming in is not very much to start with though.

[liminal_luke]

Lots of people think the rich are morally suspicious, sometimes downright "filthy."  It´s my opinion that this attitude is an obstacle to acquiring money.  

[C T]

On 1/8/2021 at 9:48 AM, dmattwads said:

 

Thus far I've tried several Buddhist mantras, and the one that I feel like it does the most is probably Nam Myoho Renge Kyo. Zhunti seems to do a lot also, but its too strong and I tend to feel bad after doing it.

 

Pardon my overbearing words, but having read many of your posts on mantra practice over the years, I must admit that on numerous occasions I've questioned myself on your approach to it. If you seriously want to work with mantras, there's a whole ritualistic & devotional side to it that needs to be observed. Put it this way.... a casual ad hoc dippy-toed approach will yield nothing more than the occasional incidental merit. Thats if one's fortunate enough not to meet with less desirable repercussions. 

[Maddie]

15 minutes ago, C T said:

 

Pardon my overbearing words, but having read many of your posts on mantra practice over the years, I must admit that on numerous occasions I've questioned myself on your approach to it. If you seriously want to work with mantras, there's a whole ritualistic & devotional side to it that needs to be observed. Put it this way.... a casual ad hoc dippy-toed approach will yield nothing more than the occasional incidental merit. Thats if one's fortunate enough not to meet with less desirable repercussions. 

 

What do you mean?

 

I would hardly describe my mantra practice as dippy toed. Sometimes I will spend hours per day dedicating myself to mantra practice. I would not say that it's something that I take lightly.

Edited January 9, 2021 by dmattwads

[Maddie]

 

 

 

 

[liminal_luke]

48 minutes ago, C T said:

 

 Put it this way.... a casual ad hoc dippy-toed approach will yield nothing more than the occasional incidental merit.  

 

42 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

I would hardly describe my mantra practice as dippy toed. 

 

I´ll change my name from liminal_luke to dippy-toes for $25.  

[Maddie]

After a full day of having this post out I will reiterate my reluctance to post this. 

For some strange reason it seems like almost any other topic can be spoken about with a fair sense of reasonableness, but for whatever reason on the topic of money is brought up it all changes and it gets weird and I'm not exactly sure why that is but I have very certainly noticed over the years that it is.

 It seems the advice runs from the very obvious to the judgmental to assumptions about ones attitudes and habits that may or may not be correct.

 I think at this point I'm more interested in the effect money has on the psyche of those discussing it than the topic of money in and of itself.

[C T]

1 hour ago, dmattwads said:

 

What do you mean?

 

I would hardly describe my mantra practice as dippy toed. Sometimes I will spend hours per day dedicating myself to mantra practice. I would not say that it's something that I take lightly.

 

Not doubting your sincerity, Matt. But sincerity can only take one so far. If the correct approach is missing, investing time and effort and quantity of chants mean very little. 

 

There are intricacies to mantra practices that needs to be known, especially for those who've been working with mantras for a long time and not experiencing the sort of merit they're expecting, or if the invocations (not mere chantings, because essentially, they are invocations) are producing what is commonly known as _side effects_ , which aren't actually side effects, but merely getting mediocre result from mediocre application methods as a result of not having sufficient exposure to the right ways of practice, which, as I've mentioned, requires adherence to correct ritual observances, noting auspicious days (and not so auspicious days), visualizations, dedication of merit, and so on. In Vajrayana, and tantra specifically, all practices, if done as per instructions to the letter, is always good in the beginning, good in the middle, and good in the end. Deviances and deviations tend to lead to unpleasantness and other lesser merits, while the observation of these 3 noble principles is what will yield fruitful results always. 

 

https://www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-masters/khenpo-shenga/three-noble-principles

 

The application of these 3 principles can be applied to all aspects of one's life, especially attitudes towards money, sex, and rock n roll. 

 

 

[freeform]

3 hours ago, dmattwads said:

topic of money is brought up it all changes and it gets weird and I'm not exactly sure why

Do you really think ‘it gets weird?’ Or you get weird?

[Maddie]

4 hours ago, C T said:

 

Not doubting your sincerity, Matt. But sincerity can only take one so far. If the correct approach is missing, investing time and effort and quantity of chants mean very little. 

 

There are intricacies to mantra practices that needs to be known, especially for those who've been working with mantras for a long time and not experiencing the sort of merit they're expecting, or if the invocations (not mere chantings, because essentially, they are invocations) are producing what is commonly known as _side effects_ , which aren't actually side effects, but merely getting mediocre result from mediocre application methods as a result of not having sufficient exposure to the right ways of practice, which, as I've mentioned, requires adherence to correct ritual observances, noting auspicious days (and not so auspicious days), visualizations, dedication of merit, and so on. In Vajrayana, and tantra specifically, all practices, if done as per instructions to the letter, is always good in the beginning, good in the middle, and good in the end. Deviances and deviations tend to lead to unpleasantness and other lesser merits, while the observation of these 3 noble principles is what will yield fruitful results always. 

 

https://www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-masters/khenpo-shenga/three-noble-principles

 

The application of these 3 principles can be applied to all aspects of one's life, especially attitudes towards money, sex, and rock n roll. 

 

 

 

Well I was going to post the quote from Bill Brodi where he states Zhunti practice requires none of those things you just mentioned but then found this for the first time in my life.

 

Quote

Dear readers please note! On further research, I have realized that Dharma Master Shou Yu, the Venerable who inherited the Zhunti Sadhana method from Master Nan Huai Jin, has remarked that the Sadhana is not to be taught or performed by practitioners who have not yet been initiated or transmitted face-to-face by a master of the Tantric lineage. Therefore, he advised that any aspiring Zhunti practitioner go to him personally (at the monastery: Shi Fang Chan Lin 十方禅林) and receive the transmission personally by him. As it is a Tantric sadhana that is protected by Dharma Protectors, it might be a wise thing to do. However, it also seems that reciting the mantra alone without the full visualizations, and just the mudra, is acceptable. Due to this circumstance, I have decided to pause the full translation of this until I have also received the sadhana transmission, to show respect to this divine sadhana and its lineage masters.

 

https://seriousbuddhism.wordpress.com/2017/12/11/nan-huai-jin-explanation-of-the-zhunti-sadhana/

 

But just to show what Brodi said.

 

Quote

There are many mantras, from many different schools, that you can use in your cultivation practice. However, most of these mantras can only be recited according to very specific rules and under certain particular conditions. Most times those conditions are very strict.

For instance, some mantras can only be used if you are vegetarian (you must also refrain from eating onions, garlic, leaks, etc. which will lead to an increase in sexual desire). Some mantra techniques require that you abstain from all sexual activity. Some mantras can only be recited at certain times and places. Other mantras are limited in that they cannot be used when you are in a filthy or smelly location (as this drives away the protecting devas), or during a woman's period of menstruation.

There are all sorts of various restrictions for mantra recitation, called "japa practice" in Hinduism, but the Zhunti mantra is free from all such restrictions. So is reciting the Christian rosary to still your thoughts, which is a type of mantra practice as well. The same goes for reciting the prayer of Jesus while visualizing little flames in your heart.

The Zhunti mantra can be used anytime, anywhere, in any situation. It is one of the few mantras which can be taught to others without restriction, and no particular ceremony is needed for its recitation though a special sadhana is available.

 

http://www.meditationexpert.com/meditation-techniques/m_zhunti_mantra_cultivation_technique.htm

 

Nevertheless I had made two points. 

 

The first was doing a lot of zhunti had greatly changed other karma in the past very effectively.

 

The second was it sucked and was painful.

 

Like I said for years I was under the assumption from Brodi that Zhunti mantra was totally safe to do, but my experience and that first article that I just found and posted it seemed to indicate otherwise.

 

On the other hand last year I quit meditating because I was having adverse reactions to that as well.

 

That being said there are several mantras and chants such as Nam myoho renge Kyo, Amitofu, and om mani padme hum that are said to be totally safe for anybody to do by the groups that advocate them. As I stated earlier in the thread it's not like I've been unsuccessful with mantra practice as I gave more than one example of karma that I had changed successfully. It's just that my money karma is the most recent attempt of mine.

 

Edited January 9, 2021 by dmattwads

[Maddie]

2 hours ago, freeform said:

Do you really think ‘it gets weird?’ Or you get weird?

 

I would say "it gets weird". The Allan Watts the video that I posted discusses many of the weird attitudes about money we have in the West.

 

And at the risk of sounding like a crazy person I was just woken up by two evil spirits that are extremely unhappy for whatever reason that I brought up the spiritual side of money.

 

Coincidentally I had to ward them off with the mantra. I know this is not a typical day for me.

 

So yes it got about as weird as it gets.

Edited January 9, 2021 by dmattwads

[freeform]

1 minute ago, dmattwads said:

 

I would say "it gets weird". The Allan Watts the video that I posted discusses many of the weird attitudes about money we have in the West.

To be honest - it was a bit of a rhetorical question. I was more trying to lead you to examining how it’s weird for you - rather than how it’s weird for others.

 

The reality of the matter is that the subject of ‘money’ is no more weird than say jing or retention... or enlightenment... or kundalini... 

 

I think it’s more about people’s relationship with these concepts, than the concepts themselves...

 

These specific subjects are in a way what you’d call ‘supernormal stimuli’...

 

Baby chicks react to the sight of their parents faces by becoming active, chirping and opening their mouths to receive food... but when researchers made models of the parents faces - but with bigger, brighter coloured beaks, bigger eyes and so on (like caricatures of a bird’s head) - although the model no longer looked anything like the bird, the chicks would react stronger to that model than to their actual parents.

 

(and similarly, when presented with a choice, o the parents would feed fake caricature models of chicks with bigger mouths, more saturated colours and simpler shapes - than their own, live chicks)

 

Money is a supernormal stimuli of what we could consider ‘value’ - so just as the chicks went a bit crazy at the sight of their super-parent, we go a bit crazy for the super-value of money.

 

What this tends to do is highlight the reactivity inside us... it super-stimulates your reactivity - your craving or aversion or ignorance in relation to this stimulus...

 

So you either let yourself be taken in by your impulsivity - or you’re presented with an opportunity to gain insight into your relationship with said stimulus.

 

Thats another way of saying - it’s not the stimuli, it’s your habitual reaction that’s worth examining.

[Maddie]

3 minutes ago, freeform said:

To be honest - it was a bit of a rhetorical question. I was more trying to lead you to examining how it’s weird for you - rather than how it’s weird for others.

 

The reality of the matter is that the subject of ‘money’ is no more weird than say jing or retention... or enlightenment... or kundalini... 

 

I think it’s more about people’s relationship with these concepts, than the concepts themselves...

 

These specific subjects are in a way what you’d call ‘supernormal stimuli’...

 

Baby chicks react to the sight of their parents faces by becoming active, chirping and opening their mouths to receive food... but when researchers made models of the parents faces - but with bigger, brighter coloured beaks, bigger eyes and so on (like caricatures of a bird’s head) - although the model no longer looked anything like the bird, the chicks would react stronger to that model than to their actual parents.

 

(and similarly, when presented with a choice, o the parents would feed fake caricature models of chicks with bigger mouths, more saturated colours and simpler shapes - than their own, live chicks)

 

Money is a supernormal stimuli of what we could consider ‘value’ - so just as the chicks went a bit crazy at the sight of their super-parent, we go a bit crazy for the super-value of money.

 

What this tends to do is highlight the reactivity inside us... it super-stimulates your reactivity - your craving or aversion or ignorance in relation to this stimulus...

 

So you either let yourself be taken in by your impulsivity - or you’re presented with an opportunity to gain insight into your relationship with said stimulus.

 

Thats another way of saying - it’s not the stimuli, it’s your habitual reaction that’s worth examining.

 

I would agree that I have a peculiar reaction to the topic of money.

[freeform]

3 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

I would agree that I have a peculiar reaction to the topic of money.

So do most people.
 

Left unexamined it’ll run your relationship with it on autopilot. Give it some attention and a new level of ‘freedom’ will open up over time.

 

Guard against reactivity and automaticity is my advice (for anything in life really).

[Maddie]

Just now, freeform said:

So do most people.
 

Left unexamined it’ll run your relationship with it on autopilot. Give it some attention and a new level of ‘freedom’ will open up over time.

 

Guard against reactivity and automaticity is my advice (for anything in life really).

 

Very strongly agree. Getting off autopilot, not reacting to reactivity, waking up is the goal. Typically when I notice reactivity that's when I take a look.

[sagebrush]

 If anyone has any interesting and useful metaphysical insights I'd love to hear them, but if I just wanted cynical boomer quips I have plenty of sources to get that from around me locally.]]]]]]]]]]damn quote boxes:

 

 

ha----nice try.

 

oh want to add that in our original meeting over the phone A was about a childrens book. I wasnt out to get anything. So the way you all are pinning me in is not something I like.

 

change what you. I dont want any more issues. Thank you 

Edited January 10, 2021 by sagebrush

[Limahong]

14 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

Typically when I notice reactivity that's when I take a look.

 

 

On your path to...?

 

 

 

[Maddie]

Just now, Limahong said:

 

 

On your path to...?

 

 

 

.... reducing reactivity. 

[Limahong]

5 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

.... reducing reactivity.

 

Hi dmattwads,

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

- Anand

 

[Maddie]

6 hours ago, freeform said:

Do you really think ‘it gets weird?’ Or you get weird?

 

I think what does get weird is a few things.

 

First of all the reason I posted this topic in the general discussion as opposed to the rabbit hole or on this website at all is because I wanted an "alternative" point of view on the topic of money. I am already aware of the common sense basics such as don't spend beyond your means, there is a difference between needs and wants, save money, ect., but this is a lot the feed back I got.

 

Secondly there were a lot of assumptions made about me, with out knowing me. I was told to be generous, and grateful, yet I am.

 

Alan Watts makes a good point that along with a lot of other aspects of Western culture there is a lot of guilt regarding money and it is assumed that money must come via suffering.

 

The last point I'll finish with, (and this is hard to explain and still vague to me) is that I have felt an unusual level of "spiritual opposition" since I began this topic. I don't understand this and find it odd, but nevertheless I notice it.

[Limahong]

43 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

I think what does get weird is a few things.

 

 

Weird can be due to perspectives wired wrongly?

 

 

 

[Maddie]

Just now, Limahong said:

 

 

Weird can be due to perspectives wired wrongly?

 

 

 

 

You are probably sort of on to something. If any good has come out of this thread so far its the questions I've gotten about why I feel the way I feel about this topic.

 

After a great deal of contemplation I have decided that the best explanation is that its simply karma.

 

I've already had two great karma projects in my life. The first was relationship karma which after a lot of effort did change. Same goes for career karma. I began with those two because I went in the order of how much I felt each one was affecting my life.

 

Now I'm at money. I remember when I first began to deal with the other karma at first it seemed over whelming and impossible but with persistence and time it did improve.

 

That being said I am reasonably confident that this will be the same. It's just going to take time and consistency.

 

 

[Limahong]

2 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

After a great deal of contemplation I have decided that the best explanation is that its simply karma.

 

Hi dmattwads,

 

What are the alphabets of your karma? Simply...

 

 ?

 

- Anand

 

[C T]

4 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

Well I was going to post the quote from Bill Brodi where he states Zhunti practice requires none of those things you just mentioned but then found this for the first time in my life.

 

 

But just to show what Brodi said.

 

 

Nevertheless I had made two points. 

 

The first was doing a lot of zhunti had greatly changed other karma in the past very effectively.

 

The second was it sucked and was painful.

 

Like I said for years I was under the assumption from Brodi that Zhunti mantra was totally safe to do, but my experience and that first article that I just found and posted it seemed to indicate otherwise.

 

On the other hand last year I quit meditating because I was having adverse reactions to that as well.

 

That being said there are several mantras and chants such as Nam myoho renge Kyo, Amitofu, and om mani padme hum that are said to be totally safe for anybody to do by the groups that advocate them. As I stated earlier in the thread it's not like I've been unsuccessful with mantra practice as I gave more than one example of karma that I had changed successfully. It's just that my money karma is the most recent attempt of mine.

 

 

Events aligned fortuitously to gift you this discovery then. If this was Tibet 500 years ago, a chance find like this would have gotten a whole village raising extra prayer flags for months. It'd have been like discovering a minor terma (hidden Dharma treasure), and if you ask me, it is something akin to that. And it pays to recognize and acknowledge such merit, and get into a habit of keeping score because its so easy to be blasé about such finds. Nothing accidental about it, imo. 

 

As for the 3 mantras cited, they contain both exoteric & esoteric resonances. While you are right to say they are _safe_ for general 'consumption', which on some outer level I suppose they are, nonetheless they can be accessed & used by secret mantra practitioners for cultivating inner, subtler essences. 

 

A taster here with regards to the esoteric practice of the Six Syllable Mantra. Also lends context to what was mentioned earlier about the intricacies of mantric practice. 

Quote

Increasing your energy with Om Mani Padme Hum

The kidneys are the main store house for physical, mental, and spiritual energy and is also the main store house for sexual energy. Therefore By tonifying the kidneys through energy cultivation and meditation, a practitioner can increase his health, healing and enlightenment.

 

Visualize Avalokiteshvarava above your head holding the wish fulfilling vase filled with the elixir/nectar of immortality. As you recite Om Mani Padme Hum for a couple of minutes concentrate on the liquid light elixir getting stronger and brighter. On your last recitation of Om Mani Padme Hum visualize Avalokiteshvarava releasing a bright & warm stream of golden elixir and the Hum seed syllable into your your Brahman aperture, down through your central channel, and branch off into both of your kidneys. Then use your abdominal breathing to increase the warm liquid light in your kidneys for just a minute or two. Draw down the elixir several more times and then increase the energy in your kidneys with abdominal breathing. After a few minutes of abdominal breathing just sit absorbed one-pointedly in relaxed meditation for as long as you can. When you're done place your palms on your kidneys and rub them up and down thirty six times. Then place your palms on your abdomen and roll them clockwise and counter clockwise nine times each. With continual practice you should begin to see a transformation in your self physically, mentally and spiritually.

 

*Opening your Brahman aperture with Om Mani Padme Hum
To open the heaven's gate of the Brahman aperture take a large and slow breath. Concentrate on the left lower part of your abdomen and recite Om. Then the left upper part of your chest and recite Ma. Then the right upper part of your chest and recite Ni. Then the right lower part of your abdomen and recite Pa. Then four fingers bellow you navel and recite Mi. Then recite Hum while drawing the energy up through your central channel with your mind's intent, through the Brahman aperture and into space all in one breath. Repeat this many times until you get some realization such as a tingling feeling or red and white pus dot on top of your head at the Brahman aperture.

 

Now, if you can find out which organ corresponds with wealth, you could apply this mantra in like fashion. 

Being a stickler for ritual, I'd usually encourage Mani reciters to obtain ritual objects like a statuette and thangka of Avalokiteshvara for the purpose of setting up a simple altar, ornamented additionally with candles, incense, fresh flowers and fresh water, so that one can access a sort of 'sacred space' whenever the ritual invocations and chantings are done. There's no need to make it too elaborate - the simpler the better. Don't forget the 3 Noble Principles too whenever you practice, regardless of this suggestion of the altar. Although it will be so beneficial on so many levels if you do. It will help with stabilizing and attracting wealth too, especially if you work with the wealth protector deity Dzambhala. 

 

Quote

 

Dzambhala is a deity of wealth whose blessings remove the obstacle of poverty, bringing wealth and abundance to Dharma practitioners. As it is difficult to attain spiritual realizations while afflicted by lack of resources, Dzambhala generates prosperity so that practitioners have the time, energy, and means to practice and attain enlightenment. (excerpt from Sakya monastery webpage) 

 

Quote

The Yellow Dzambhala holding the jewel spouting Mongoose is a powerful deity who bestows wealth and prosperity to all who offers soothing clear water on his crown and body while reciting his mantra. It is excellent practice to place a consecrated image of Dzambhala within a water feature letting the water flow continuously over his crown. Each day recite his mantra 108 times.

 

 

 

Tips on setting up an altar https://www.wikihow.com/Create-a-Simple-Buddhist-Shrine