Wai Dan

[Maddie]

3 minutes ago, Sketch said:

Not in the least.

 

Or are you talking about the MCO? I used to do that a while back until I read that Bill Brodi said it was not a good idea.

[Sketch]

Ah well Bill Brodhi.  I'll look him up. I'm no doubt wasting a lot of time then.

[Sketch]

Unassailable source. Who is he? 

[Maddie]

13 minutes ago, Sketch said:

Unassailable source. Who is he? 

 

google meditation expert

[Sketch]

2 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

google meditation expert

Quite seriously,  that took some googling. I'm absolutely certain you know everything you need to know though.

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, Sketch said:

Quite seriously,  that took some googling. I'm absolutely certain you know everything you need to know though.

 

Then that makes one of us

[Sketch]

But you have the idea of "filling your lower Dantian " but not of circulating the substance you're filling it with? I might research that idea further if I were seeking a good result.

[Maddie]

16 minutes ago, Sketch said:

But you have the idea of "filling your lower Dantian " but not of circulating the substance you're filling it with? I might research that idea further if I were seeking a good result.

 

No like I said I've done that before as well.

[Sketch]

1 minute ago, dmattwads said:

 

No like I said I've done that before as well.

All of these things have a very different emphasis.  I'm working on mending my body, mind and spirit after a life of messing all that up. If I were one short step from total enlightenment,  I suppose I could afford to be choosy.

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, Sketch said:

All of these things have a very different emphasis.  I'm working on mending my body, mind and spirit after a life of messing all that up. If I were one short step from total enlightenment,  I suppose I could afford to be choosy.

 

Well I hope things improve for you.

 

As for me I wouldn't call it being "choosy". There is effort and as the Buddha said there is "right effort". I just want to make sure what I do is productive as opposed to making more problems for myself, which in the past when I did a mixed salad approach to practice is what I got.

[Sketch]

3 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

Well I hope things improve for you.

 

As for me I wouldn't call it being "choosy". There is effort and as the Buddha said there is "right effort". I just want to make sure what I do is productive as opposed to making more problems for myself, which in the past when I did a mixed salad approach to practice is what I got.

Improve? I have a wonderful opportunity,  a great life. Far better than I deserve. Please don't misunderstand. 

 

No one who meets me feels in the least bit sorry for me, I assure you.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Sketch

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, Sketch said:

Improve? I have a wonderful opportunity,  a great life. Far better than I deserve. Please don't misunderstand. 

 

Well you had just indicated that you had messed up parts of your life so I was wishing you well.

 

Aside from Brodie saying what he did, the other reason I stopped doing the MCO is because while I was circulating the qi around my orbit it would open up my third eye quite a bit as it is along the path of the orbit and all that energy there had an effect. This being the case I was not ready for it and had some unpleasant experiences that were similar to a kundalini experience. I became very sensitive to other people's emotions and thoughts so I backed off. 

[Sketch]

3 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

Well you had just indicated that you had messed up parts of your life so I was wishing you well.

 

Aside from Brodie saying what he did, the other reason I stopped doing the MCO is because while I was circulating the qi around my orbit it would open up my third eye quite a bit as it is along the path of the orbit and all that energy there had an effect. This being the case I was not ready for it and had some unpleasant experiences that were similar to a kundalini experience. I became very sensitive to other people's emotions and thoughts so I backed off. 

As I say, these things are done with a very different emphasis.  I establish the breathing pattern from the microcosmic orbit as an anchor while using standing postures for tissue change over time. Very different. I keep my third eye out of it, except for a wee peek as a catalyst at the beginning of a session.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Sketch

[Maddie]

15 minutes ago, Sketch said:

As I say, these things are done with a very different emphasis.  I establish the breathing pattern from the microcosmic orbit as an anchor while using standing postures for tissue change over time. Very different. I keep my third eye out of it, except for a wee peek as a catalyst at the beginning of a session.

 

I had no intention of getting my third eye involved either, but since it is on the path of the orbit it just sort of happened. It freaked me out.

[Sketch]

This could just turn into a fuzzy echo of my archive dives on this site .

 

When i say peep in on my third eye, I really mean the spot surrounding the midbrain - the highest outpost of feeling nerve endings inside the middle of the skull, and the surrounding reservoir of blood whose pulse they can pick up.

 

Not there for long, there's a reciprocating pulse in my abdomen and breathing between my kidneys to manage . I don't know if that makes any sense whatsoever.

[Maddie]

Just now, Sketch said:

This could just turn into a fuzzy echo of my archive dives on this site .

 

When i say peep in on my third eye, I really mean the spot surrounding the midbrain - the highest outpost of feeling nerve endings inside the middle of the skull, and the surrounding reservoir of blood whose pulse they can pick up.

 

Not there for long, there's a reciprocating pulse in my abdomen and breathing between my kidneys to manage . I don't know if that makes any sense whatsoever.

 

It does make sense whatsoever :-)

[Sketch]

33 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

It does make sense whatsoever :-)

Physical results over time are undeniable.  Long term pains have receded, parts move differently. The change to my rotator cuff damage alone has been worth the effort 

 

[freeform]

8 hours ago, dmattwads said:

while I was circulating the qi around my orbit it would open up my third eye quite a bit as it is along the path of the orbit and all that energy there had an effect. This being the case I was not ready for it and had some unpleasant experiences that were similar to a kundalini experience. I became very sensitive to other people's emotions and thoughts so I backed off. 

I suspect what you experienced was rising Qi - which stimulates the head and the heart - and causes exactly the issues you talked about (and more). 
 

It’s very common when doing things in the incorrect order. (Aka not learning to sink Qi first)

[freeform]

10 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

As a TCM practitioner I would like to know more about this difference.

 

Maybe that's why I've been confused when I hear terms like opening the channels because from a TCM point of view if your channels weren't open you wouldn't be alive.

It’s a big subject.

 

TCM is for healing ill people... Neigong is for cultivation... so ‘open’ from a Neigong perspective is quite different - generally in ‘amount’... ‘open’ from an alchemical perspective means that plus unobstructed by karmic ‘knots’.

 

In TCM the Du channel is a line going up the spine.

 

My Du channel is like a fleshy riverbed with thousands of tributaries covering my whole back (and inwardly all around the spine). I say fleshy, because the physical part of the channel is also developed. In effect you could say my whole back is the Du.

 

Similarly the ‘Ming men’ for Neigong practitioners is a good hand sized area of the lower back - not a point.

 

The difference is partly because it’s a whole different way of looking at things - and partly because the channel system changes significantly as a result of training.

Edited January 9, 2021 by freeform

[XianGong]

I am unfortunately not able to afford any of those pills, much less do I know any master who sells them and sends via DHL courier around the world.

I do think it an interesting and powerful topic, but it is not accessible unless you are lucky to be in a school where those methods are cultivated. Nor do I know of any of those schools.

[Maddie]

3 hours ago, freeform said:

I suspect what you experienced was rising Qi - which stimulates the head and the heart - and causes exactly the issues you talked about (and more). 
 

It’s very common when doing things in the incorrect order. (Aka not learning to sink Qi first)

 

It's why I stopped several years ago with this practice.

[freeform]

23 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

It's why I stopped several years ago with this practice.

You’re not at fault - you were taught incorrectly. The vast majority of info on these practices is plain wrong, or misunderstood.

 

People usually either develop problems or they get nowhere... a tiny minority make some progress with even incorrect info (though this rarely leads anywhere productive)

[Maddie]

14 minutes ago, freeform said:

You’re not at fault - you were taught incorrectly. The vast majority of info on these practices is plain wrong, or misunderstood.

 

People usually either develop problems or they get nowhere... a tiny minority make some progress with even incorrect info (though this rarely leads anywhere productive)

 

I noticed over the years that I tended to have adverse reactions to a lot of practices that I was told were safe. Last year I even had to back off of Buddhist breath meditation for the same reason.

Edited January 9, 2021 by dmattwads

[freeform]

9 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

reactions to a lot of practices

Practices don’t live in a vacuum. ‘Practices’ need to be applied in a causative chain of developments...

 

Brick laying is a practice... Tiling is a practice... plumbing is a practice.

 

Yet divorced from the overall causality chain involved in building, each practice is a waste of time or even dangerous (as a brick wall without a foundation would be for instance).

 

This is why following a structured system of cultivation is so crucial.
 

And a teacher is also important if you want to go far.

[Maddie]

3 hours ago, freeform said:

Practices don’t live in a vacuum. ‘Practices’ need to be applied in a causative chain of developments...

 

Brick laying is a practice... Tiling is a practice... plumbing is a practice.

 

Yet divorced from the overall causality chain involved in building, each practice is a waste of time or even dangerous (as a brick wall without a foundation would be for instance).

 

This is why following a structured system of cultivation is so crucial.
 

And a teacher is also important if you want to go far.

 

Yes I get that. The tricky part for me is that I have been burned by so many "teachers" its hard to trust anyone now. Though I am aware that practices don't exist in a vacuum. I do think this is a common attitude for many Westerners. Meditation is the last thing listed on the eight fold path and most advanced, but many Westerners like to just skip ahead directly to it and ignore most of the rest.

 One thing I actually do have a lot of training in is TCM which is one of the reasons I am wanting to explore more cultivation techniques that utilize this.