What are the types of methods?

[Shadao]

While searching around the forum, I have noticed that this tends to repeat.Whenever people talk about methods they usually specify: healing, martial, spiritual/enlightment and etc.(I forgot the name of some).

 

What are all the labels/types of methods?And I mean the known types or the most seen ones.

What is the difference or main aim of each type of method?(i.e. I would get that "healing" is about learning how to heal oneself, no?But what about the rest?).

Edited January 12, 2021 by Knowthing
grammar...again

[RiverSnake]

This is how many methods there are......

 

[Maddie]

3 hours ago, Knowthing said:

While searching around the forum, I have noticed that this tends to repeat.Whenever people talk about methods they usually specify: healing, martial, spiritual/enlightment and etc.(I forgot the name of some).

 

What are all the labels/types of methods?And I mean the known types or the most seen ones.

What is the difference or main aim of each type of method?(i.e. I would get that "healing" is about learning how to heal oneself, no?But what about the rest?).

 

So as you said there are healing methods and I think the definition of this is pretty obvious.

 

Martial methods on the surface level are to help one perform their martial arts better in fighting and such.

 

Enlightenment is a bit of a loaded term depending on which tradition you are referring to, but in general it is to free oneself from desires so that one is liberated from the cycle of rebirth within Samsara.

 

Another common practice motive is to gain powers. (which I am not a big fan of to be honest)

 

[Shadao]

Just now, RiverSnake said:

This is how many methods there are......

 

Ah, I guess this one is on me.

 

Maybe I didn't ask properly(possible due to both the difficulty that it is to express certain concepts and thoughts into words, as well as that english isn't my native language).

 

Just now, dmattwads said:

 

So as you said there are healing methods and I think the definition of this is pretty obvious.

 

Martial methods on the surface level are to help one perform their martial arts better in fighting and such.

 

Enlightenment is a bit of a loaded term depending on which tradition you are referring to, but in general it is to free oneself from desires so that one is liberated from the cycle of rebirth within Samsara.

 

Another common practice motive is to gain powers. (which I am not a big fan of to be honest)

 

Yes, this kind of definitions are what I was asking about.

 

I have seen that usually people will mention 4 or 5 types of methods(or would it be better to say cathegories?) in this forum as the "main reason/main concept/main objective" of the methods they are speaking about.

 

Just a question though...don't people that seek "enlightment" also tend to be the ones to "seek power"?I'm just curious about it because many tend to associate both things into one single objective.Something like "enlightment brings power and power brings enlightment".

[Maddie]

4 minutes ago, Knowthing said:

Just a question though...don't people that seek "enlightment" also tend to be the ones to "seek power"?I'm just curious about it because many tend to associate both things into one single objective.Something like "enlightment brings power and power brings enlightment".

 

I'm sure I'll have someone argue this but in my opinion seeking enlightenment and power are contradictory. Powers my come as a side effect of seeking enlightenment but are not at all the goal.

 

Power is adding to. Enlightenment is letting go. Seeking power feeds the ego, letting go reduces the ego. So as can be seen these are very contradictory.

[Shadao]

Just now, dmattwads said:

 

I'm sure I'll have someone argue this but in my opinion seeking enlightenment and power are contradictory. Powers my come as a side effect of seeking enlightenment but are not at all the goal.

Does it mean that "seeking powers" is wrong?

[Maddie]

3 minutes ago, Knowthing said:

Does it mean that "seeking powers" is wrong?

 

I don't like the words "right" or "wrong" because who is to say? But I will put it this way. The purpose of enlightenment is to end suffering. If seeking powers takes one from that then it will lead one into more suffering.

 

So "wrong" no, beneficial to happiness and peace? no.

Edited January 12, 2021 by dmattwads

[stirling]

1 hour ago, Knowthing said:

Just a question though...don't people that seek "enlightment" also tend to be the ones to "seek power"?I'm just curious about it because many tend to associate both things into one single objective.Something like "enlightment brings power and power brings enlightment".

 

This might be the case, but it would be a mistaken pursuit. The "wisdom" gained by being enlightened to the nature of reality does not confer any power to a person, but rather illuminates the reality that the "self" is an illusion which has always lacked any real agency or power of its own. There IS no "power" as a "self" to attain.

[XianGong]

Of course, there is power, and there is no wisdom without power. Wisdom without power is called an illusion, or surface awakening. 

True enlightenment gives powers that will freak out the most of fantasy novel readers and Goku wannabees. 

 

All people who avoid cultivation of power and energy end up being weak and fragile and have no real enlightenment to speak of.

This world is not for the weak and not for the fragile, its full of demon beasts, full of challenges, of life and death cycle, of suffering and disease, your beloved ones will die, your family will die, your kids will die, you will die multiple dies in great pain.

 

How do you plan to go through all this without sufficient power? Power is what makes gliding across life easy. 

[XianGong]

19 hours ago, Knowthing said:

Does it mean that "seeking powers" is wrong?

Asking advice and guidance on the forum is not the best thing to go, i.e. better to find a qualified teacher in those arts that you think are suitable for you. The paths are many.

[Shadao]

Just now, XianGong said:

Asking advice and guidance on the forum is not the best thing to go, i.e. better to find a qualified teacher in those arts that you think are suitable for you. The paths are many.

That question(the one you quoted) wasn't about asking advice or guidance, just pure curiosity.

[stirling]

34 minutes ago, XianGong said:

Of course, there is power, and there is no wisdom without power. Wisdom without power is called an illusion, or surface awakening. 

True enlightenment gives powers that will freak out the most of fantasy novel readers and Goku wannabees. 

 

All people who avoid cultivation of power and energy end up being weak and fragile and have no real enlightenment to speak of.

This world is not for the weak and not for the fragile, its full of demon beasts, full of challenges, of life and death cycle, of suffering and disease, your beloved ones will die, your family will die, your kids will die, you will die multiple dies in great pain.

 

How do you plan to go through all this without sufficient power? Power is what makes gliding across life easy. 

 

Who has the power? Where does it reside or accumulate? Where is it before it is accumulated?

[XianGong]

1 minute ago, stirling said:

Who has the power? Where does it reside or accumulate? Where is it before it is accumulated?

 

The power has many names, in Daoism, it is called Jing - Essence, Qi - Energy, and Shen - Spirit. I would say those 3 powers are just a generalization of 99+ powers humans may possess and develop.

 

Its when all of them are full and accumulated one is moving towards the enlightenment, and if you are deficient, it is like a boat with holes in the basement and no sail, no engine, trying to cross the pacific ocean.

[stirling]

I'm here out of curiosity about Taoism, and freely admit that my background is Buddhism. How would you define "enlightenment", or is there a standing definition you are comfortable with? What lies at the furthest reaches of Taoist understanding, in your opinion?

[XianGong]

Just now, stirling said:

I'm here out of curiosity about Taoism, and freely admit that my background is Buddhism. How would you define "enlightenment", or is there a standing definition you are comfortable with? What lies at the furthest reaches of Taoist understanding, in your opinion?

 

Immortality

[Shadao]

Just now, XianGong said:

 

Immortality

Physical, spiritual or both?

Because I see talks of both.

[stirling]

That is interesting. So, in this sense, though abstractly, Buddhism would agree - except that it is impossible for any "person" to become immortal. It is non-dual awareness, which consciousness at its basis is, that is empty of time/space/self, and thus unitive and without past or future.

 

What do you know about the unitive principle of the dao? Is the immorality the result of going beyond manifestations? Are you suggesting a person becomes immortal? Would I be mistaken in saying that Daoism is a non-dual philosophy? In the context of Daoism, what does that mean?

 

Thank you for taking the time to answer these questions. _/\_

 

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by stirling

[XianGong]

1 hour ago, Knowthing said:

Physical, spiritual or both?

Because I see talks of both.

 

Both

[XianGong]

1 hour ago, stirling said:

That is interesting. So, in this sense, though abstractly, Buddhism would agree - except that it is impossible for any "person" to become immortal. It is non-dual awareness, which consciousness at its basis is, that is empty of time/space/self, and thus unitive and without past or future.

 

What do you know about the unitive principle of the dao? Is the immorality the result of going beyond manifestations? Are you suggesting a person becomes immortal? Would I be mistaken in saying that Daoism is a non-dual philosophy? In the context of Daoism, what does that mean?

 

Thank you for taking the time to answer these questions. _/\_

 

 

 

I have to say ideas of humans about this world, are only ideas, of humans.

Immortal beings are something entirely else. 

 

I had access to some "secret teachings" which turn the "human person" into the "hive mind" consisting of 1000 "people" combined together. The methods and the practice are absolutely secret, but can you imagine the abilities and comprehension of 1000 beings fused into one, compared to 1 being. 

1 core processor vs 1000 core processor? It is not just quantitative change, it is the qualitative change, you are no longer a human being in its normal meaning anymore. 

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, Knowthing said:

Physical, spiritual or both?

Because I see talks of both.

 

The literal physical immortals apparently hide from the public after they become immortal which is why you never see one, but don't let the lack of evidence stop you from believing.

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, XianGong said:

I had access to some "secret teachings" which turn the "human person" into the "hive mind" consisting of 1000 "people" combined together. The methods and the practice are absolutely secret,

 

I guess they are not so secret anymore.

[XianGong]

5 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

I guess they are not so secret anymore.

 

They are. I have yet to see many beings who have finished this kind of cultivation. 

[XianGong]

8 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

The literal physical immortals apparently hide from the public after they become immortal which is why you never see one, but don't let the lack of evidence stop you from believing.

 

Tbh you won't be able to see a physical immortal if he will not want to be seen, and I doubt they want to be seen. 

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, XianGong said:

 

Tbh you won't be able to see a physical immortal if he will not want to be seen, and I doubt they want to be seen. 

 

Like Santa Clause?

[stirling]

10 minutes ago, XianGong said:

 

I have to say ideas of humans about this world, are only ideas, of humans.

Immortal beings are something entirely else. 

 

I had access to some "secret teachings" which turn the "human person" into the "hive mind" consisting of 1000 "people" combined together. The methods and the practice are absolutely secret, but can you imagine the abilities and comprehension of 1000 beings fused into one, compared to 1 being. 

1 core processor vs 1000 core processor? It is not just quantitative change, it is the qualitative change, you are no longer a human being in its normal meaning anymore. 

 

This doesn't sound much like my (admittedly) limited readings in the Daoist canon. Setting aside the "secret teachings" where are these principles best read about and explored?