What are the types of methods?

[Shadao]

6 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

I get this a lot with acupuncture patients also for some reason. They might have had back pain for 20 years, eaten horribly that entire time, and not exercised at all and they expect one acupuncture session take care all their problems in two minutes. I always wondered where this totally unrealistic expectation comes from.

I would take a guess that it comes from people's desire to have "the one thing" that will solve all their problems, not unlike how religious people await for a "savior" that will be "the one" to help them instead of them helping themselves.

[RiverSnake]

There are millions of methods but only a few suited to your nature. Seek out thyself. 

[Shadao]

Just now, RiverSnake said:

There are millions of methods but only a few suited to your nature. Seek out thyself. 

I understood that a person should or could only pick one as to avoid issues between the methods...is that right or is there a way for someone to learn more than one?

[stirling]

3 hours ago, freeform said:

There’s quite an in-depth discussion of this stuff in this thread:

 

Thank you for the link. _/\_

 

Quote

 

Yes - you’re totally right - the (not so) old adage of “any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic” is pretty accurate. 

 

Much of what I thought was folklore or metaphor when I first got on the path has proven to be surprisingly real.

That’s the standard advaita vedanta view - but from my experience, at least in the Daoist tradition (and within some Buddhist lines) - enlightenment is anything but ‘normal’ or ordinary  

 

 

 

What I mean by normal is that the WORLD doesn't change (with some notable exceptions in my case)  - the way it is apprehended shifts.

[RiverSnake]

30 minutes ago, Knowthing said:

I understood that a person should or could only pick one as to avoid issues between the methods...is that right or is there a way for someone to learn more than one?

 

A master answers that question here: 

 

 

[Shadao]

I like to move, I like to fight(even if I am not fighting against someone, even if it's just shadowboxing).

I like to learn, to learn of the ways of thinking and development towards a final goal more than the goal itself.

I like the occult/supernatural, the idea of something beyond the regular senses and knowledge.

 

So...I don't know if it's a good idea, but it is what I chose for myself.

 

Since I'm new to this Qi/Ki/Chi(the "practicing side") bussiness I decided to pick the Spring Forest Qigong as it is stated to be one that can be easily learned(or at least it's easier to start in).

 

I also decided that while I do this I will learn both Muay Thai and Kalaripayattu(although this last one will be more of a "learning moves than the entire thing" due to: 1.Not being in India, 2.Not knowing the language and 3.Very few places actually seem to put decent content about it so I have to make do with what I have) as martial arts.

 

Finally, I decided to also learn more about Chaos magic/meta-magic and Shamanism, which seem to be the paths that call me the most.Of course, not forgetting about Taoism/Daoism.

 

I hope to be able to have results to talk about in a few weeks.

[RiverSnake]

A basic movement of Spring Forest Qigong. Simple but powerful. Video below. Chaos magick...not something i have in depth experience with, but have learned enormously by listening to several practitioner of the current. 

 

I was subscribed to Gordon White's course (a chaos dude) through Rune Soup and enjoyed it thoroughly. I have listened to Andrieh Vitimis's Deeper Down the Rabbit Hole podcast for many years and gained an impressive haul of knowledge. Both of them have books in the field and i am currently reading Chaos Protocols. 

 

Jan Fries whom is also a coyote has many books on Shamanism. 

 

I used to study Silat with an instructor in Florida whom is excellent...but i doubt you live around there. Finding a good martial instructor can be tricky. Once you learn a bit of Chaos Magick, can throw a sigil to work that pathway.  

 

Best of luck. Feel free to Pm me if you need any help. 

 

 

https://runesoup.com 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/deeper-down-the-rabbit-hole/id434344872 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shadao]

Just now, RiverSnake said:

A basic movement of Spring Forest Qigong. Simple but powerful. Video below. Chaos magick...not something i have in depth experience with, but have learned enormously by listening to several practitioner of the current. 

 

I was subscribed to Gordon White's course (a chaos dude) through Rune Soup and enjoyed it thoroughly. I have listened to Andrieh Vitimis's Deeper Down the Rabbit Hole podcast for many years and gained an impressive haul of knowledge. Both of them have books in the field and i am currently reading Chaos Protocols. 

 

Jan Fries whom is also a coyote has many books on Shamanism. 

 

I used to study Silat with an instructor in Florida whom is excellent...but i doubt you live around there. Finding a good martial instructor can be tricky. Once you learn a bit of Chaos Magick, can throw a sigil to work that pathway.  

 

Best of luck. Feel free to Pm me if you need any help. 

 

 

https://runesoup.com 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/deeper-down-the-rabbit-hole/id434344872 

 

 

 

 

 

Much appreciated for the assistance.

 

I have a site where I can find many books regarding the subjects(it's an archive type of site) I intend to study(save the martial arts, as those I prefer to focus on the practice-side only) as well as some people that are(or at least appear to be) knowledgeable in the areas(both chaos-magic and shamanism).

 

 

 

[Jadespear]

...There is really only one method that encompasses all methods - understanding and knowing the true nature of things, how they come into being and why and what they can do/cannot do.

[Conan]

On 1/13/2021 at 8:41 PM, XianGong said:

 

Immortality

 

I remember reading a quote from an early Daoist author who disagreed with Buddhists who merely meditate, saying that Buddha status, which he equated to immortality, required more than reaching a state of deep meditation. I always thought that was interesting due to the potential to increase the common ground in both religions.

 

Either the Daoist author had it wrong and Buddha status is unrelated to immortality, or this may be a hint of a consensus that once existed between pre-sect Buddhism and Taoist schools concerned with immortality. If such a consensus ever existed, it's now only or mostly preserved in Taoism. Unfortunately my knowledge about these two religions is too limited to form an opinion.

[Conan]

I found the book containing the comments I paraphrased.

 

Here is the part where Buddha status is equated to immortality:

 

Quote

The  syncretism  of  the  Quanzhen  School  was  hardly  unique  or  new.
The  blending  of  Confucian  and—especially—Buddhist  elements  into  the
Taoist religion had by and large already taken place during the Six Dynasties
and Tang periods. Confucian social mores (e.g., filial piety, loyalty) had already

been  well  incorporated  into Taoist  doctrine, as  had  basic  Buddhist  notions
such as karma, 8 samsara, and liberation (which was equated to divine, celestial
immortality).

 

And here is the part where 'basic' meditation as a valid path to immortality (and therefore Buddha status) is rejected

 

Quote

As for Buddhist monks
who  enter  into  samadhi  and  die  while  seated  in  meditation, and
Taoists who enter into stillness and thus send out yin spirits, these
[spirits that they let out] are [nothing but] ghosts of pure vacuity and
are not pure yang immortals. They are distantly faint with no appear-
ance and in the end have no place to go to. Why do people who study
[the way to immortality] make these mistakes? They especially do not
understand that pure yang qi is born after the essence is refined and
made into an elixir. After you refine the qi and complete the Spirit,
the Realized Numinous Divine Immortal transcends the ordinary and
enters into sacredness. You abandon your shell and ascend to immor-
tality, and  this  is  called  “transcending  and  escaping.” This  is  the

method  of  divine  immortals  that  has  not  changed  for  a  hundred
million years!

 

Source

 

Reading in between the lines, such texts seem to consider Buddha himself as one of their own, while considering (most of?) his followers as not being on their path, nor on Buddhas path. This is easily one of the most remarkable things I've read as far the relationship between Buddhism and Daoism. Or am I not reading this correctly?

 

No offense to Buddhists. Just trying to understand the common ground or missing link between these religions.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Conan

[Cleansox]

3 hours ago, Conan said:

 

Reading in between the lines, such texts seem to consider Buddha himself as one of their own, while considering (most of?) his followers as not being on their path, nor on Buddhas path. This is easily one of the most remarkable things I've read as far the relationship between Buddhism and Daoism. Or am I not reading this correctly?

 

No offense to Buddhists. Just trying to understand the common ground or missing link between these religions.

the quote invalidates sitting in ones personal Void, and includes both daoist and buddhist practitioners. Some would call that dissociation.

 

it does no invalidate daoist or buddhist methods that include working with different aspects of energetics.

 

I interpret this as true spiritual progress is being able to feel both stillness and the ever changeing impermanence of the manifest world, not rejecting one for the other. 

[Conan]

Thanks for your feedback. Do you think pre-sect Buddhists could have gravitated closer to Daoists pursuing immortality (compared to modern Buddhists)? Is there any argument or data pro or con this possibility?

[Cleansox]

On 2021-02-02 at 11:25 AM, Conan said:

 Do you think pre-sect Buddhists could have gravitated closer to Daoists pursuing immortality (compared to modern Buddhists)? Is there any argument or data pro or con this possibility?

I lack schooling in traditional buddhism, so I am going to wing it here 😁. 

The school I am involved in firmly believe that a practitioner needs a source of power to drive the development of insight. 

On the other hand, there are Vipassana groups (centered in Burma) that forbids their members to do any energetic practices (yoga, taiji, qigong and so on). 

 

I do not know if this is a modern/ancient division, or just different developments. 

The Vipassana school I am thinking of mainly refers to the Satipathana Sutta, so it might have been a development based on choosing a specific text as a base. 

[Conan]

18 hours ago, Cleansox said:

I lack schooling in traditional buddhism, so I am going to wing it here 😁. 

The school I am involved in firmly believe that a practitioner needs a source of power to drive the development of insight. 

On the other hand, there are Vipassana groups (centered in Burma) that forbids their members to do any energetic practices (yoga, taiji, qigong and so on). 

 

I do not know if this is a modern/ancient division, or just different developments. 

The Vipassana school I am thinking of mainly refers to the Satipathana Sutta, so it might have been a development based on choosing a specific text as a base. 

 

I saw a video of a Tibetan Buddhist doing what in China might have been lumped under Nei Gong. (Very unusual in his movements, and supposedly dangerous if the training is not completed after initiating it).

 

I have to say that enlightenment as explained by Buddhists is difficult for me to understand. For instance, in the Buddhist scriptures it says that enlightenment is like an extinguished flame.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggi-Vacchagotta_Sutta

 

Compared to an extinguished flame, Buddhahood as conceptualized by Daoist seekers of immortality makes it easier to understand why enlightenment was coveted.