non-dualism & the need for practice

[Patrick Brown]

I am not saying that after death that's it...lol

I don't advocate annihilation.

 

The mind is filled with itself, and all things arise from the mind itself. As does forms

both physical and non-physical; emotions, desires, etc.

 

Of the same mind, with different characteristics... Original nature is the same, but our conditional nature

is different in characteristics.

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

I figure the image of St. Christopher is a pretty good teaching.

[林愛偉]

I figure the image of St. Christopher is a pretty good teaching.

 

 

Please tell me about St. Christopher

[nightwatchdog]

Big m small m, still the mind, only one mind, discriminating...lol

 

 

Everything gone, gone

Completely gone

Totally, and completely gone

Awareness

So be it

[Pero]

 

Maybe I am wrong, but isn't the title "Lama" specific to Tibetan Tradition?

 

Someone mentioned Lama...Lama Lama Lama... reminds me of the Llama Song..somewhere floating

on the net.

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

 

Oh, right, sorry. I'm used to this term so I didn't even consider it.

So what do you think has been changed?

[林愛偉]

Oh, right, sorry. I'm used to this term so I didn't even consider it.

So what do you think has been changed?

 

 

I wish I had the resources at my disposal. Yet, when I see the history of Tibetan Lamas,

and the outcomes they have created for themselves, it shows something was wrong in their

education. It is something to think about.

 

I only received such news from ex-tibetan left home cultivators.

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

[Pero]

I wish I had the resources at my disposal. Yet, when I see the history of Tibetan Lamas,

and the outcomes they have created for themselves, it shows something was wrong in their

education. It is something to think about.

 

I only received such news from ex-tibetan left home cultivators.

 

And yet Tibetan Buddhist achieve rainbow bodies to this day. Perhaps some taught wrong, doesn't mean everyone did.

[林愛偉]

And yet Tibetan Buddhist achieve rainbow bodies to this day. Perhaps some taught wrong, doesn't mean everyone did.

 

Wisdom is most important.

 

I'm not going to debate their or anyone's attainments of spiritual penetrations. Spiritual penetrations should

be the least of the cares of the people of this world. Spiritual Penetrations without wisdom is a one way path

towards ill things.

 

Some may have a rainbow body, but it doesn't mean they have attained complete enlightenment.

Its just a colorful mind without wisdom; resulting in afflictions in the end.

 

Attainments are results of proper causes. Not everyone has them, but everyone can attain the causes to realize the fruit of particular cultivation, and thus cultivate them.

 

Attaining any type of body, or spiritual penetration does nothing for the good of humanity.

Out in the streets, offering service and proper teachings intrigue me more than a colorful mind.

 

 

Peace,

Lin

[Pero]

Wisdom is most important.

 

I'm not going to debate their or anyone's attainments of spiritual penetrations. Spiritual penetrations should

be the least of the cares of the people of this world. Spiritual Penetrations without wisdom is a one way path

towards ill things.

 

Some may have a rainbow body, but it doesn't mean they have attained complete enlightenment.

Its just a colorful mind without wisdom; resulting in afflictions in the end.

 

Attainments are results of proper causes. Not everyone has them, but everyone can attain the causes to realize the fruit of particular cultivation, and thus cultivate them.

 

Attaining any type of body, or spiritual penetration does nothing for the good of humanity.

Out in the streets, offering service and proper teachings intrigue me more than a colorful mind.

 

Sorry Lin, but here you are completely wrong. Rainbow body means Buddhahood. Most people who achieved it did so at the time of their death. I can only remember three who achieved it without going through the process of death and even so, it's not something you can showboat because most people can't see these bodies anyway.

It doesn't mean though that you can't get enlightened without achieving it.

[林愛偉]

Sorry Lin, but here you are completely wrong. Rainbow body means Buddhahood. Most people who achieved it did so at the time of their death. I can only remember three who achieved it without going through the process of death and even so, it's not something you can showboat because most people can't see these bodies anyway.

It doesn't mean though that you can't get enlightened without achieving it.

 

 

I hope I am wrong brother. Buddhahood has many levels. I hope I can find a Sutra that says attaining

the "rainbow" body means one has attained complete enlightenment.

 

Peace and Blessings,

 

Lin

Edited May 20, 2008 by 林愛偉

[Patrick Brown]

Please tell me about St. Christopher

Now bear in mind that I'm not Christian and even though I'm a Tao Bum I did take the Bodhisattva vows way back in my early twenties. But remember I don't meditate so I'm not a conventional, err, thingy-what's-its-name!

 

As for there being something wrong with Tibetan Buddhism this could be said of any school/tradition. Having said that many believe that Tibet was overtaken by China as a kind of kharmic punishment for distorting the Dharma. It has also been said that Tibet will be freed and will turn the wheel of Dharma and bring light and understanding to the world. I think the Deli Lama is doing some very important work.

 

Anyway here's the story of St. Christopher and no I'm not a martyr although I often try to help in unrecognised ways which means I take a lot of flack.

 

The Golden Legend

 

According to the account in the Golden Legend by Jacobus de Voragine, Christopher was a Canaanite 12 cubits (18 feet) tall and with a fearsome face. While serving the king of Canaan, he took it into his head to go and serve the greatest king there was. He went to the king who was reputed to be the greatest, but one day he saw the king cross himself at the mention of the devil. On thus learning that the king feared the devil, he departed to look for the devil. He came across a band of marauders, one of whom declared himself to be the devil, so Christopher decided to serve him. But when he saw his new master avoid a wayside cross and found out that the devil feared Christ, he left him and enquired from people where to find Christ. He met a hermit who instructed him in the Christian faith. Christopher asked him how he could serve Christ. When the hermit suggested fasting and prayer, Christopher replied that he was unable to perform that service. The hermit then suggested that because of his size and strength Christopher could serve Christ by assisting people to cross a dangerous river, where many were perishing in the attempt. The hermit promised that this service would be pleasing to Christ.

 

After Christopher had performed this service for some time, a little child asked him to take him across the river. During the crossing, the river became swollen and the child seemed as heavy as lead, so much that Christopher could scarcely carry him and found himself in great difficulty. When he finally reached the other side, he said to the child: "You have put me in the greatest danger. I do not think the whole world could have been as heavy on my shoulders as you were." The child replied: "You had on your shoulders not only the whole world but him who made it. I am Christ your king, whom you are serving by this work." The child then vanished.

 

Christopher later visited the city of Lycia and there comforted the Christians who were being martyred. Brought before the local king, he refused to sacrifice to the pagan gods. The king tried to win him by riches and by sending two beautiful women to tempt him. Christopher converted the women to Christianity, as he had already converted thousands in the city. The king ordered him to be killed. Various attempts failed, but finally Christopher was decapitated.

Edited May 20, 2008 by Patrick Brown

[林愛偉]

Now bear in mind that I'm not Christian and even though I'm a Tao Bum I did take the Bodhisattva vows way back in my early twenties. But remember I don't meditate so I'm not a conventional, err, thingy-what's-its-name!

 

As for there being something wrong with Tibetan Buddhism this could be said of any school/tradition. Having said that many believe that Tibet was overtaken by China as a kind of kharmic punishment for distorting the Dharma. It has also been said that Tibet will be freed and will turn the wheel of Dharma and bring light and understanding to the world. I think the Deli Lama is doing some very important work.

 

Anyway here's the story of St. Christopher and no I'm not a martyr although I often try to help in unrecognised ways which means I take a lot of flack.

 

 

Yes. Institutionalized Buddhism has been the death of Buddhism and the distortion of the Dharma. There are some institutions which represent the Dharma as the Dharma, with out side tracking people into power cultivation and riches, lust, etc.

 

It is thus common in all religious cultivation, amongst those who like this kind of thing.

 

The short story of St. Christopher reminds me of how many wise cultivators of the Buddha DHarma teach their students/disciples.

 

Peace and Blessings. Thank you for the info.

 

Lin

[Pero]

I hope I am wrong brother. Buddhahood has many levels. I hope I can find a Sutra that says attaining

the "rainbow" body means one has attained complete enlightenment.

 

I doubt you will, because as far as I understand, Rainbow body can't be attained by sutra practices. You would find it in tantras but I doubt you believe their authenticity.

But anyway, I can put it this way, if you achieve Buddhahood you can achieve Rainbow body, if you don't achieve Buddhahood you can't achieve Rainbow body.

 

Cool story, Patrick.

[林愛偉]

I doubt you will, because as far as I understand, Rainbow body can't be attained by sutra practices. You would find it in tantras but I doubt you believe their authenticity.

But anyway, I can put it this way, if you achieve Buddhahood you can achieve Rainbow body, if you don't achieve Buddhahood you can't achieve Rainbow body.

 

 

 

I won't believe it from the Tantra. If it is not of the Proper Buddha Dharma spoken by the Buddha, the many whom are spoken of in the Sutras, I would not pay attention. If its not spoken of in the Sutras, its not Proper Dharma.

 

I am stubborn in this, and so are my teachers. I'll believe my teachers before any one else.

 

Virtue, Moral, and keeping to the Proper Dharma is the method(s) to attain Buddhahood. Anything not in that manner would just take longer, and probably not get there at all.

 

Peace,

Lin

[Pero]

I won't believe it from the Tantra. If it is not of the Proper Buddha Dharma spoken by the Buddha, the many whom are spoken of in the Sutras, I would not pay attention. If its not spoken of in the Sutras, its not Proper Dharma.

 

Well then there's not much point in talking about it further.

 

I am stubborn in this, and so are my teachers. I'll believe my teachers before any one else.

 

Sure, so would I.

 

Virtue, Moral, and keeping to the Proper Dharma is the method(s) to attain Buddhahood. Anything not in that manner would just take longer, and probably not get there at all.

 

If you mean morality, wisdom and meditation (sila, prajna, samadhi respectively), that is what Tibetan Buddhism follows.

 

(edit: or in other words, the 8 fold path.)

Edited May 20, 2008 by Pero

[林愛偉]

 

If you mean morality, wisdom and meditation (sila, prajna, samadhi respectively), that is what Tibetan Buddhism follows.

 

(edit: or in other words, the 8 fold path.)

 

 

4 Noble truths, Noble 8 Fold Path, Precepts, Samadhi and Wisdom. Can't go wrong, unless one does...lol

then its no longer any of them.

And in that case it was one's individual causes which influenced the mind to see the deviant.

 

 

Peace,

Lin

[Patrick Brown]

[林愛偉]

[Pero]

I figure the Tantric route is OK if:

1. You accept that you might die (in fact dying and being reborn may be part of this route).

 

Why?

 

 

I have experimented with Tantric practices (sexual and other), specifically Tibetan, and of course, not having a teacher, I nearly died!

 

I don't know what kind of tantric practices you did but probably they weren't Tibetan. Generally TB tantra has very little do with sex. Very very few do sexual practice in TB as you already have to have quite a bit of realization to be even taught such practice, which probably rules everybody here out.

 

 

I have heard it said that the Tantric aspect of Tibetan Buddhism came from Nepal, can anybody confirm that?

 

It came from Oddiyana (or was that India, I forgot).

[Patrick Brown]

[林愛偉]

[Pero]

The Chinese killed the monks because they found them holding slaves, both sex and workers, as well as hording land and riches from the people, not to mention the obsession with death; body parts as tools for rites, and finding skeletons in various temples. To this day, the Chinese government is finding weapons in temples, and the monks are saying they are offerings to the Dharma Protectors.

 

Its outrageous, such a claim, because Dharma Protectors assist one based on their cultivation of Virtue, Merit and Morals, not offerings of weapons.

 

Tibetan Buddhism seems to have a fascination with death, and demonic figures. Neither of which the Buddha emphasized.

 

[林愛偉]

 

 

hehe

[Patrick Brown]

Why?

Because if you are frightened of dying then the fear will probably kill you before anything else. When I had ten-thousand flaming swords rushing through my body back in January I wasn't frightened as I figured the worst that could happen was that I would die. Of course the pain was intense (there was a fare bit of screaming ) and many people would have called an ambulance but I didn't because I knew modern doctors wouldn't understand and would just pump me full of drugs and hack me open which would have probably killed me. I didn't sleep for three days and it took me three weeks to recover.

 

I don't know what kind of tantric practices you did but probably they weren't Tibetan. Generally TB tantra has very little do with sex. Very very few do sexual practice in Tibet as you already have to have quite a bit of realization to be even taught such practice, which probably rules everybody here out.

It came from Oddiyana (or was that India, I forgot).

Well I doubt if any of the esoteric teachings related to Tibetan Tantric practices have ever been written down or even taught. Buddha wasn't taught enlightenment! There's a whole sphere of insight and teaching which becomes available when a person is ready. It is simply the ability to see.

 

The Chinese killed the monks because they found them holding slaves, both sex and workers, as well as hording land and riches from the people, not to mention the obsession with death; body parts as tools for rites, and finding skeletons in various temples. To this day, the Chinese government is finding weapons in temples, and the monks are saying they are offerings to the Dharma Protectors.

 

Its outrageous, such a claim, because Dharma Protectors assist one based on their cultivation of Virtue, Merit and Morals, not offerings of weapons.

 

Tibetan Buddhism seems to have a fascination with death, and demonic figures. Neither of which the Buddha emphasized.

ROFLMOL

[Pero]

Well I doubt if any of the esoteric teachings related to Tibetan Tantric practices have ever been written down

 

They were.

 

or even taught.

 

This is just ridiculous, how can you first say you did some TBT and then say that those practice weren't even taught?

 

Buddha wasn't taught enlightenment!

 

I don't see what this is related to.

 

There's a whole sphere of insight and teaching which becomes available when a person is ready. It is simply the ability to see.

 

So teachings appear in your mind to you?

[Patrick Brown]