Which QiGong form to start?

[Rara]

2 minutes ago, Ursus mellifera said:

 

I'm genuinely having difficulty with this, too. Global pandemic aside (which makes it pretty much impossible), I don't seem to live near enough to any Taoist schools to be able to travel to them. I feel stuck in my practice with what I can manage to learn on my own.

 

What is it in particular you're wanting to learn? Because there is always something useful that can be done solo while you try and find a teacher.

 

Some people I know are miles away from accredited schools so they learn one thing in the space of a couple of months and go away to practice it until they're ready to go back. Some of the most basic things take years to work on anyway!

[Ursus mellifera]

16 minutes ago, Rara said:

 

What is it in particular you're wanting to learn? Because there is always something useful that can be done solo while you try and find a teacher.

 

Some people I know are miles away from accredited schools so they learn one thing in the space of a couple of months and go away to practice it until they're ready to go back. Some of the most basic things take years to work on anyway!

 

Honestly, that's part of my problem. I don't really know where to go from here at all. I've read the TTC. I've read Chuang Tzu. I meditate. I was learning Tai Chi until the pandemic hit. I want to advance, but I feel adrift in this infinite sea of information.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Master Logray said:

 

He is talking about learning, not getting distance healing. 

I'm talking about learning.

 

99% of the lineages I've listed provide distance learning. I've had personal experience of dream training with some of them.

 

As you develop, devote yourself and tune into the master and lineage you will receive the transmission of the lineage if it is quality.

 

At some point you will want to see them in person, and a lot(maybe all) can be done at a distance.

I say maybe, because the internet and telecommunication is a recent invention, and a lot of the masters are experimenting with what they can do over distance, that was traditionally an in person only affair.

Edited January 28, 2021 by JohnC

[Rara]

1 hour ago, Ursus mellifera said:

 

Honestly, that's part of my problem. I don't really know where to go from here at all. I've read the TTC. I've read Chuang Tzu. I meditate. I was learning Tai Chi until the pandemic hit. I want to advance, but I feel adrift in this infinite sea of information.

 

It sounds like you need a class and community to belong to because what you are effectively after is consistent practice (for health, purposes?) which compliments your understanding of the texts.

 

Out of curiosity, which style of Tai Chi were you learning, and was this in person locally, or were you following videos?

 

I know what you mean about the sea of information, so if I can help you narrow everything down, then I will

[Ursus mellifera]

1 hour ago, Rara said:

 

It sounds like you need a class and community to belong to because what you are effectively after is consistent practice (for health, purposes?) which compliments your understanding of the texts.

 

Out of curiosity, which style of Tai Chi were you learning, and was this in person locally, or were you following videos?

 

I know what you mean about the sea of information, so if I can help you narrow everything down, then I will

 

Yes! A class and community would be wonderful. I am definitely after consistent practice (for mental health purposes, anyway).

I didn't know there were different styles of Tai Chi. It was a local class before I moved last year, and now it most definitely is not.

I appreciate any help you're willing to give.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Ursus mellifera

[doc benway]

16 hours ago, arthur said:

 

Yup. I've started with Ba Duan Jing, but i've come to notice there are many different forms taught by different sifus. I suppose those nuances in form would not make too great difference.

 

Thanks

 

Good choice.

I’ve learned several qigong forms and the one that I’ve stuck with long term has been Ba Duan Jin. 

[Arkhion]

About two years ago I was asking myself the same question.
I recommend from my experience that you study the forum very deeply, it is a true treasure of information. (Literally do data mining using the search option) Of course there is misinformation too but you will create an idea with everything.
You will eventually find other very similar posts with book recommendations, lineages and qigong types. (And other very good ones on the dangers and deviations of qi.)
In my little experience I recommend the same as @Rara : Zhan Zhuang, Ba Dua Jin and sitting meds. (don't underestimate ZZ try to do 1hr+ every day ). 

I take this opportunity to thank everyone in the forum for the contribution they make, it has helped me a lot to obtain research points for my personal growth.

[Master Logray]

17 hours ago, JohnC said:

I'm talking about learning.

 

99% of the lineages I've listed provide distance learning. I've had personal experience of dream training with some of them.

 

As you develop, devote yourself and tune into the master and lineage you will receive the transmission of the lineage if it is quality.

 

At some point you will want to see them in person, and a lot(maybe all) can be done at a distance.

I say maybe, because the internet and telecommunication is a recent invention, and a lot of the masters are experimenting with what they can do over distance, that was traditionally an in person only affair.

 

May be it is your condition, even if excluding those still live a medieval life, the big majority does not, or having very limited exposure on internet, not to mention distance learning.  And I am already living in Asia.

 

 

 

[Maddie]

19 hours ago, Ursus mellifera said:

 

Honestly, that's part of my problem. I don't really know where to go from here at all. I've read the TTC. I've read Chuang Tzu. I meditate. I was learning Tai Chi until the pandemic hit. I want to advance, but I feel adrift in this infinite sea of information.

 

The information is always going to be overwhelming. It's important to figure out what it is you want to do and accomplish and then make a plan from there.

[Iliketurtles]

On 1/22/2021 at 4:10 AM, arthur said:

Hello to all sifus

 

Just started to learn the bone marrow cleansing form of qigong and trying to understand how many total forms are there to practice and which are considered to be important to practice?

 

My intention is to first build up my qi in dantian, then learn to distribute it equally around my body. 

 

Would appreciate if anyone can provide a list with the name and purpose of each form as well.

 

When you first get into all this spiritual stuff, there is a strong urge to absorb all of the various teachings you come across and create your own new "eclectic" style which will somehow be better than the sum of the parts.

 

After all Bruce Lee said:

 

"“Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless and add what is specifically your own.”

 

This mentality may possibly work for marital arts but it does not work for energetic arts.

 

People do this all the time and get seriously injured and sick as a result.  

 

My advice as I posted in your other thread is to be extremely careful about teachers and teachings. 

 

It is far easier to not learn something in the first place, than it is to unlearn it.

 

Once you accept a teaching, and seriously study it and start practicing it becomes ingrained in you. 

 

A better strategy is to do your due diligence, and select a teacher and a teaching you can prove with absolute certainty is legitimate. 

 

Once you've made your choice dedicate yourself to the practice. 

 

If you don't focus on one teacher, and one practice you'll do nothing but accumulate more spiritual baggage. 

 

[Master Logray]

7 hours ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

When you first get into all this spiritual stuff, there is a strong urge to absorb all of the various teachings you come across and create your own new "eclectic" style which will somehow be better than the sum of the parts.

 

After all Bruce Lee said:

 

"“Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless and add what is specifically your own.”

 

This mentality may possibly work for marital arts but it does not work for energetic arts.

 

 

Energetic arts are mostly systems, and slow to establish and change.  It is not easy to take in something from outside and replace something within. 

 

 

[arthur]

On 1/28/2021 at 12:27 PM, JohnC said:

It is a closed school to westerners and I've heard of more people having issues practicing, or attempting to practice that lineage than all the other lineages combined.

 

Mind to share what kind of issues you've heard of?

And what do you think of Master Jiang?

[arthur]

20 hours ago, Iliketurtles said:

 

When you first get into all this spiritual stuff, there is a strong urge to absorb all of the various teachings you come across and create your own new "eclectic" style which will somehow be better than the sum of the parts.

 

After all Bruce Lee said:

 

"“Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless and add what is specifically your own.”

 

This mentality may possibly work for marital arts but it does not work for energetic arts.

 

People do this all the time and get seriously injured and sick as a result.  

 

My advice as I posted in your other thread is to be extremely careful about teachers and teachings. 

 

It is far easier to not learn something in the first place, than it is to unlearn it.

 

Once you accept a teaching, and seriously study it and start practicing it becomes ingrained in you. 

 

A better strategy is to do your due diligence, and select a teacher and a teaching you can prove with absolute certainty is legitimate. 

 

Once you've made your choice dedicate yourself to the practice. 

 

If you don't focus on one teacher, and one practice you'll do nothing but accumulate more spiritual baggage. 

 

 

I think a challenge for a newbie like myself is i've not developed an objective way of filtering opinions, simply because i have not soaked enough of info to know what's right and wrong for myself and as such i have no baseline to start with. I guess the more i read and learn the clearer the baseline will be for me.

[Iliketurtles]

5 minutes ago, arthur said:

I think a challenge for a newbie like myself is i've not developed an objective way of filtering opinions, simply because i have not soaked enough of info to know what's right and wrong for myself and as such i have no baseline to start with. I guess the more i read and learn the clearer the baseline will be for me.

 

My advice is to spend some time thinking about what it is you are trying to accomplish via your practice.

 

If you don't know what you are trying to accomplish it is impossible to achieve anything.

 

Once you have a clearly defined goal, then research practices that claim to achieve this goal. 

 

Once you have located these practices, look for good hard evidence that shows conclusively that they can deliver as promised. 

 

If only testimonials and claims are available, this should be a major red flag that you should avoid the practice like the plague. 

 

My $0.02

[Conan]

As someone who practices ZZ (Zhan Zhuang, or standing practice), I would recommend it every time. Here are the most important benefits, IMO:

 

1) It can be considered a starting point for anything you decide to do next. It conditions the body to be able to handle more advanced practices. This is helpful if you want to eventually try them.

2) Even though it's a starting point, it gets you far. Cai Songfang became a qigong and martial arts master by practicing ZZ, only. You can read his story, here. Unlike many other practices that are shrouded in mystery and secrecy, ZZ teachers like Cai have been transparent enough to explain what to expect as far as results and transformations in the body.

3) It's low entry. You don't need a mentor (although it's possible to find one, if that's what you want). You don't have to leave the comfort of your own home. etc. The main danger is bad posture. You can use a mirror to fix this, or get help. Also use your body's feedback. If you feel pain after standing, you either had bad posture or your body is not ready for that posture.

4) You can test the waters right away (without much research or investment). It's the universe's gift to explore your body's energetics by basically standing and doing nothing. If you decide to quit because qi gong is not for you, it's as simple as stopping.

 

5) It goes hand in hand with meditation. See point 1.

[arthur]

On 1/28/2021 at 6:00 PM, Rara said:

Yes, exactly. Wudang's Sanfeng Pai, for example, do a really elaborate version while there are various, much simpler ones around. There is no problem with the latter at all, it still does the trick and perfect foundational stuff. I'm all about solid foundations

 

Does Wudang's SanFeng Pai have anything to do with the legendary Zhang SanFeng?

Edited February 1, 2021 by arthur

[Conan]

On 1/28/2021 at 5:27 AM, JohnC said:

I would never include mo pai as a lineage to practice, for new comers or otherwise.

 

It is a closed school to westerners and I've heard of more people having issues practicing, or attempting to practice that lineage than all the other lineages combined.

 

The results of mopai seem to be very specific, and most of what people are looking for are available in other lineages. Not to mention that the physical requirements are far beyond most people.

 

For the vast vast majority of students, I recommend reaching a degree of proficiency in an open ended lineage like SFQG, where you can then go on and train in a lineage you feel drawn to, with capacity to understand deeper layers.

 

Ultimately, I have a high respect for the lineage, and they've asked to be left alone.

 

It's like Chang said. There is no point in pursuing the system if you're not willing to die for it. So I agree with not recommending it to beginners. IMO Mo Pai's main use to people in the west is the high bar it has set for as far as what is possible (which I also believe was Chang's intention with the book after he had those visions).

Edited February 1, 2021 by Conan
Elaboration

[arthur]

16 minutes ago, Conan said:

 

It's like Chang said. There is no point in pursuing the system if you're not willing to die for it. So I agree with not recommending it to beginners. IMO Mo Pai's main use to people in the west is the high bar it has set for as far as what is possible (which I also believe was Chang's intention with the book after he had those visions).

 

By death, you are referring specifically to the risk of yin yang fusion or are you referring to other problems that can come out of the practice?

 

If it's the former, would you not consider it to be worthwhile even just by doing their basic meditation? Unless of course one aims to go beyond the yin yang fusion.

[Conan]

32 minutes ago, arthur said:

 

By death, you are referring specifically to the risk of yin yang fusion or are you referring to other problems that can come out of the practice?

 

If it's the former, would you not consider it to be worthwhile even just by doing their basic meditation? Unless of course one aims to go beyond the yin yang fusion.

 

There are two points I remember the book saying it could get dangerous. The part you mention (fusion), and the part where it says you could run out of life force.

 

I take that to mean that it’s potentially dangerous throughout. In my opinion, it can be worth it depending on what you’re willing to risk. I’m willing to risk everything that is mine to give (even death) to reach my full potential. (By that I don’t mean that I’m going to seek out Mo Pai; just that I now know more about the limits of human potential thanks to Chang, and that I intend to explore them myself).

 

But most people are not willing to risk that (and should not want to risk that), so I agree with the leaving out of Mo Pai in threads like this. They have been criticized heavily for the fact that they are a secret society, but IMO it’s really to their credit.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Conan

[Cleansox]

44 minutes ago, Conan said:

 

There are two points I remember the book saying it could get dangerous. The part you mention (fusion), and the part where it says you could run out of life force.

Does that imply that they doesn't include replenishing in their curriculum? 

Nei Dan litterature sometimes discuss that problem. 

[arthur]

9 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

Does that imply that they doesn't include replenishing in their curriculum? 

Nei Dan litterature sometimes discuss that problem. 

i believe they have to constantly replenish through meditation. It was stated in the book that John have to replenish his energy each time he did a demonstration for his students. 

 

Instead, i'm curious to know what's the risk of holding too much yang energy in dantian. Or if anyone can share their experiences of other teaching that also perform filling and condensing qi to such high level.

[Conan]

25 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

Does that imply that they doesn't include replenishing in their curriculum? 

Nei Dan litterature sometimes discuss that problem. 

 

IIRC, the book spoke of "draining life force" in the context of making the reader aware that the exercise calls for the right amount of pressure (ie to explain the danger in overdoing it). There was no further clarification. So I don't know if the concept of life force used here matches a replenishable substance known to other schools.

[Rara]

10 hours ago, arthur said:

 

Does Wudang's SanFeng Pai have anything to do with the legendary Zhang SanFeng?

 

The short answer is yes. If I say any more right now, I'll open up a can of worms haha.

[Conan]

17 hours ago, Conan said:

There are two points I remember the book saying it could get dangerous. The part you mention (fusion), and the part where it says you could run out of life force.

 

Correction. I misremembered.

 

The comment I paraphrased regarding life force is in the second book.

 

@arthur Any closer to making a choice, or is it still overwhelming?

Edited February 1, 2021 by Conan

[Wilhelm]

life is short, join a cult.

 

Actually though, it's really good that you're taking your decision so seriously.  In my OPINION, since you've got a lifetime of study ahead of you in Qigong/Neigong/Alchemy/IMAs/Daoism (if you choose to take the arts as far as they can go), you might as well jump in somewhere that feels good and have fun, but keep looking around too.  When you get sucked in to a system, you'll know, and then you're screwed!  (Because a good system with a good teacher will slowly absorb all of your spare time until it's all you want to do anymore [I used to have hobbies 😅])

 

If I was you, I'd double check on here that whatever system you're into has a few key boxes ticked (i.e. they start with the physical body, the teachers are good people with skills, and so are the senior students) and then if you become disinterested, don't worry too much about moving on.

 

Most learning is done online these days, anyways, so there's an even lower commitment needed to test out the waters.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Wilhelm