Simply Be -- Summa Iru

[dwai]

Ramana Maharshi would often say, "Summa iru" (or Be Quiet, or Just Be). This is a meditation to be tried out. I think the Daoist version of this is called zuowang. Just sitting in silence, resting in one's own nature --- not doing anything. 

 

Thoughts?

[Sketch]

Sitting in forgetting,  a translation of the term zouwang, has been my model - and my favorite term - for my daily seated meditation practice. 

 

From Zhuangzi;

Just take the position of nonaction and all things unfold naturally. Let your body and limbs fall away, expel perception and intellect, leave relations and things behind in oblivion. Become mystically one with the immense and boundless, release your mind and free your spirit. Be silent and without an active spirit soul [that interacts with the world], and the ten thousand things will each return to their root. Each return to their root and rest in unknowing—dark, obscure, chaotic: they remain like this for the rest of their days. However, the moment you try to know this state, you have already effected a separation from it. Don’t ask its name, don’t measure its foundation—it’s the spontaneous life of each being.^[6]

Edited January 22, 2021 by Sketch

[dwai]

50 minutes ago, Sketch said:

Sitting in forgetting,  a translation of the term zouwang, has been my model - and my favorite term - for my daily seated meditation practice. 

 

From Zhuangzi;

Just take the position of nonaction and all things unfold naturally. Let your body and limbs fall away, expel perception and intellect, leave relations and things behind in oblivion. Become mystically one with the immense and boundless, release your mind and free your spirit. Be silent and without an active spirit soul [that interacts with the world], and the ten thousand things will each return to their root. Each return to their root and rest in unknowing—dark, obscure, chaotic: they remain like this for the rest of their days. However, the moment you try to know this state, you have already effected a separation from it. Don’t ask its name, don’t measure its foundation—it’s the spontaneous life of each being.^[6]

I find this to be the  most powerful meditation, and yet, not many can do this -- most don't want to do this -- the mind always wants something to do.  

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, dwai said:

I find this to be the  most powerful meditation, and yet, not many can do this -- most don't want to do this -- the mind always wants something to do.  

 

Yes, I found that early on with breath meditation the mind would be very busy. As I continued over time it would gradually get quieter and quieter like a spinning wheel slowly losing momentum. Making the mind be quiet cannot be done with the will, as to do so is an act of the will. 

Edited January 22, 2021 by dmattwads

[Mithras]

Hmm I don't know if this is similar, but I actually did something that relates to this just yesterday. It was really great.

Basically I just took my hands off the mind and let it do whatever. No breath control, no opinions on what thoughts pop up, not taking any sides really and just letting the whole train just zip by. Letting the mind think whatever it wants. What ended up happening is that a whole bevy of thoughts appeared that collided with each other and moved like waves on an ocean. Some deeply positive, while others abhorrent or strongly negative. All the while I floated beyond even ignoring the conflict or the awareness of it all. It ended up being what felt like the final straw to the mind, as even the thoughts that had strong ego's that made it seem like I was on a certain side no longer meant anything. This seems to be an extremely powerful practice towards letting go, rather than the contempary methods of bottling up the brain like a pressure cooker and beating it into silence, as you're not caring about what opinions you hold anymore nor the direction the whole train seems to be going. Negativity, positivity, and all these states seem to return to just being states and nothing more.

 

Otherwise, I was cleaning the kitchen at the time, so it was a bit nice as it felt like I closed my eyes and woke up to a cleaned kitchen hehe.

Though maybe its important to note, that I think most go the wrong way when it comes to quieting the mind. They treat it like some beast or some great foe, but really getting a silent mind is as easy as learning to stop talking. Just trying to stop thinking in the same way that you stop talking... doesn't get simpler than that I suppose. Well maybe it does haha. But yeah... if I was a telling a "beginner" something then I'd say watch the breath for a few days, and then just learn to stop talking if you want a quiet mind.

[doc benway]

3 hours ago, dwai said:

Ramana Maharshi would often say, "Summa iru" (or Be Quiet, or Just Be). This is a meditation to be tried out. I think the Daoist version of this is called zuowang. Just sitting in silence, resting in one's own nature --- not doing anything. 

 

Thoughts?

They will come and they will go...

[Nungali]

 

 

 

 

 

[forestofclarity]

I used to just sit during my Soto days. I always sank into a dull, warm trance. Unfortunately, it was exactly the wrong direction. So I'm a bit skeptical about the instruction "just be" on its own. 

Edited January 22, 2021 by forestofemptiness

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, forestofemptiness said:

I used to just sit during my Soto days. I always sank into a dull, warm trance. Unfortunately, it was exactly the wrong direction. So I'm a bit skeptical about the instruction "just be" on its own. 

 

I'm curious if you could elaborate on that.

[idiot_stimpy]

26 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said:

I used to just sit during my Soto days. I always sank into a dull, warm trance. Unfortunately, it was exactly the wrong direction. So I'm a bit skeptical about the instruction "just be" on its own. 

 

I have heard there is a contrived stillness. Almost called Dead Tree Zen. 

[forestofclarity]

Contrived stillness would be born from blocking thoughts (another meditation error I am also intimately familiar with). I'm talking more of the "sinking mind." Sometimes, when the mind is not occupied with thinking, it becomes clouded and dull, a sort of comfortable semi-sleep or trance. There is actually a moment when the senses turn off, like when you're falling asleep, so it is easy to think of as a profound state, like you've gone into the void or something. 

 

24 minutes ago, idiot_stimpy said:

 

I have heard there is a contrived stillness. Almost called Dead Tree Zen. 

 

[dwai]

1 hour ago, forestofemptiness said:

I used to just sit during my Soto days. I always sank into a dull, warm trance. Unfortunately, it was exactly the wrong direction. So I'm a bit skeptical about the instruction "just be" on its own. 

What do you think the additional instruction should be?  

[forestofclarity]

That depends, I suppose, on where one is in practice, one's tradition and so on. But usually there is a recognition that goes along with the resting. 

 

1 hour ago, dwai said:

What do you think the additional instruction should be?  

 

[dwai]

5 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said:

That depends, I suppose, on where one is in practice, one's tradition and so on. But usually there is a recognition that goes along with the resting. 

 

 

I agree. A pointing to and introspection/self-inquiry should be a preceding step (shravanam, mananam, nidhidhyasanam)

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

Contrived stillness would be born from blocking thoughts (another meditation error I am also intimately familiar with). I'm talking more of the "sinking mind." Sometimes, when the mind is not occupied with thinking, it becomes clouded and dull, a sort of comfortable semi-sleep or trance. There is actually a moment when the senses turn off, like when you're falling asleep, so it is easy to think of as a profound state, like you've gone into the void or something. 

 

 

 

 

I  call  that the 'unaware conscious state'  .  You may as well be unconscious, yet the body is performing -  as an automaton .  Can be good or bad , I  call the 'bad' version  what has happened to me in the past during the few rare moments of factory / process line work.  I was young, earning money in my school holidays  - a good experience as I soon realised  it wasn't worth it .... and I missed my holiday !    A  half way ( between  my good and bad , here )  , something like 'highway hypnosis ' .

 

https://www.mindsethealth.com/matter/highway-hypnosis

 

and also certain states (   or  'trances'  to put  the idea of  different  states or levels of consciousness in magical terms  ) examined engendered from some 'magical meditations .

 

The 'good' version is something like  the mental state I cultivate during sword practice  - 'no mind'  , or a mind encompassing 'clear blue sky'.  This state seems associated with a 'joy of practice' .  May people experience this ;  ' When I am  ..... (insert activity, sport, hobby, etc ) I am not thinking or worrying about anything else , I am totally focused on .... " .  Some go be beyond and do not even feel they are ' mentally self directing '   the activity .  

 

So,  what has then become of self ,  where has it gone  ?  Which of course leads to the question ; what is self  ?   Which was a purpose of the magical meditations, and no doubt some others , from different cultures / practices.

 

I found  certain indigenous people blessed with this ability .  I soon learnt to just sit in silence with them and appreciate ... well, everything .   After a while visitors would turn up  ... and never shut up    What a disturbance , and what an insight . My goodness, look what is occupying their minds - you can tell as its continually gushing out their mouth .   After they are gone , their hosts, who where very polite all though this, would wink at me and ;   ' White fellah talk to much  - always  jabber jabber ! "

 

    

 

I see it as a combination of a lot of the things I wrote about above ;  There is an awareness , a  very  high awareness,    a stillness in observation , a 'witnessing' .  But its totally different with them, I think, due to their identification of 'self' .  For them, they are part of 'country' - their environment , in a very intimate way.  Sitting there , looking out over country , waiting, contemplation, observation , may as well be rock or a tree.  Its feeling how 'one' is part of everything .   I first experienced it 'just' sitting on a rock looking at the river with an elder .  Words would have been sacrilege , yet a strong bond formed .   Of course, this is not their only mental state , they have rich life in many aspects , including using a LOT of words, when its appropriate, or singing and dancing all night .  Seems appropriate as, in my experience ,  this 'simply being'  state , brings joy of life and joy in simply being alive .

 

Hunting is another  interesting one where the consciousness of 'simply being' is needed .  Mental and emotional  'traffic'  radiates out and animals can detect it .  I have done interesting experiments with this , animals can definably detect our presence  due to it, yet when one shuts it off, they have trouble detecting your presence .   - there  is  art of using this to attract animals ( I am talking 'wild animals' here )  , usually accompanied with a song .

 

Here is another bee simply being a bee;

 

 

 

[forestofclarity]

Certainly, there is no end to the types and varieties of mental states. In the end, the source is infinitely expressive, and we can spend our entire lives chasing after things, people, states, etc. 

 

I imagine meeting God or Goddess, and they are able to grant us whatever wish we desire. Many people would wish for health, long life, riches, fame, sexual partners, all of which could be supplied. But how many of us truly would turn down all those expressions, and say I don't want what you can provide, I want you? Of course, we all think we would, but then moment to moment, we often end up chasing after those expressions. 

[dwai]

10 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said:

Certainly, there is no end to the types and varieties of mental states. In the end, the source is infinitely expressive, and we can spend our entire lives chasing after things, people, states, etc. 

 

I imagine meeting God or Goddess, and they are able to grant us whatever wish we desire. Many people would wish for health, long life, riches, fame, sexual partners, all of which could be supplied. But how many of us truly would turn down all those expressions, and say I don't want what you can provide, I want you? Of course, we all think we would, but then moment to moment, we often end up chasing after those expressions. 

Well said. I think a certain sincerity of intent is required to be able to turn down whatever is being offered — everything but the ultimate knowledge  

Spoiler

A Dialogue with the God of Death

From Kathopanishad

Vajashravas was a sage. Once, he decided to perform a great sacrifice in which he wanted to give away all that he had. He had a son by the name Nachiketa who was still a boy but extremely intelligent and very pure in mind and heart. He saw that his father was giving away the lean and weak cows that were unable to give milk. My father is not doing the right thing by giving the old cows in charity, said Nachiketa to himself so he went near his father and asked, “Father, I have heard that the kind of Yajna that you are performing, one has to give up all that one possesses. This being the case to whom will you give me?” Vajashravas did not give any reply. After some time Nachiketa asked again the same question, but in vain. He did not get any response from his father. Again for the third time, Nachiketa repeated the same question. Vajashravas could not control his temper; he burst out saying to his own son, “I will give you Yama, the God of Death.”

Nachiketa followed the words of his father and went to the kingdom of Death. However, during that time Yama was not present. None dared to admit Nachiketa. So he waited near the gate for three days and three nights without taking even a drop of water. When Yama returned and found Nachiketa at his doorstep he felt sad for keeping a Brahmin waiting for three days and three nights. He ordered his attendants to fetch holy water to invite and welcome Nachiketa. After the hospitality offered to Nachiketa, Yama told Nachiketa, “Dear child, I have not done good by keeping you waiting for three days. So I request you to ask for three boons.”

Nachiketa answered to Yama by saying, “O Lord, let my father not be anxious about me, and let his anger against me vanish. When I go back to earth, let him recognize me and receive me back gladly.” 

“Granted son,” said Yama. “Ask your second boon.”

“Dear Sir, teach me the proper ritual for the fire sacrifice. This I ask for my second boon” said Nachiketa.

Yama agreed and taught Nachiketa the proper ritual for the fire sacrifice. Then he said, “Nachiketa, what is your third boon?”

Nachiketa said, “Is there indeed a life beyond death? Some say there is; others say life ends with this life. What is the truth?”

Yama said, “Boy, do not ask me about matters of life and death. Even the gods are not clear on all points. Ask me something else. I will grant all your wishes other than this.”

Nachiketa persisted and said, “O Yama, I only wish to know about the mysteries of life and death, and nothing else.”

Yama tries to offer Nachiketa worldly pleasures so that he may change the nature of his request for the third boon, but Nachiketa insists by stating that all the worldly pleasures are short-lived and do not render long lasting happiness. Nachiketa was bold enough saying that one can never reach the eternal through the worldly possessions. Therefore he has renounced all desires for worldly pleasures and have come here with the hope of wining the Eternal through the instructions of the God of Death.

It was too difficult for Yama to change the mind of young Nachiketa. So finally, he agreed to tell Nachiketa about the mysteries of life and death with the following words:

“The Self is immortal. It was not born, nor does it die. It did not come out of anything, neither did anything came out of it. Even if this body is destroyed, the soul is not destroyed.”

“The one who thinks that he is the slayer and the one who thinks that he is slain, both are ignorant. For the Self neither slays nor is it slain.”

“Smaller than the smallest and larger than the largest, the Self is living in all beings.”

“The knowledge about it can neither be obtained by discussion, nor by brain power, nor even by much learning. It reveals itself to the deserving one.”

“This body is the chariot, intelligence the driver, the senses are the horses, conscience the rein and the soul is the lord of the chariot. The Self is superior to body, mind and senses.

“Greater than the individual soul is the enveloping super consciousness, the seed of everything in the universe, still greater is the Ultimate Person than whom there is nothing greater. He is the goal of our aspiration. Once That (Supreme Self) is realized, death loses all its terrors, and the one who has realized becomes immortal.

“The path to realization is long and difficult, like the razor’s edge, narrow and sharp. Therefore there is no time to be lost. Awake, arise, bestir yourself, and do not stop until the goal is reached.”

https://upanishads.org.in/stories/a-dialogue-with-the-god-of-death

[dwai]

. double-post 

Edited January 23, 2021 by dwai

[Limahong]

14 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Here is another bee simply being a bee;

 

 

 

 

Hi Nun,

 

 

 

Ramana Maharshi would often say, "Summa iru" (or Be Quiet, or Just Be).

 

 

- Anand

 

 

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

Certainly, there is no end to the types and varieties of mental states. In the end, the source is infinitely expressive, and we can spend our entire lives chasing after things, people, states, etc. 

 

I imagine meeting God or Goddess, and they are able to grant us whatever wish we desire. Many people would wish for health, long life, riches, fame, sexual partners, all of which could be supplied. But how many of us truly would turn down all those expressions, and say I don't want what you can provide, ............... I want you? Of course, we all think we would, but then moment to moment, we often end up chasing after those expressions. 

 

 

I was with you up to the part where I inserted  .............

 

What do you mean  " I want you '   regrading a God or Goddess ?   I can understand wanting a Gods qualities , attitudes , communications, knowledge, outlook, etc .  But what does  wanting the God themselves  mean  ? 

 

-  Bear with me  here ..... I dont really even understand the expression when its one human 'wanting' the other .  ... if someone said 'I want you '  I would either be suspicious or  ....  " What for ?    "

 

 

 

[Limahong]

8 minutes ago, Nungali said:

I dont really even understand the expression when its one human 'wanting' the other .  ... if someone said 'I want you '  I would either be suspicious or  ....  " What for ?

 

Hi Nun,

 

For nothing... or anything... so don't point...

 

 

I don't want you... or anyone. 

 

Why? 

 

I am going to bed alone.

 

Good night.

 

- Anand

 

 

[Nungali]

Good !

 

Now he has gone to bed , maybe I can get a response from forestofemptiness 

 

to whom my post was actually addressed . 

[forestofclarity]

I suppose it depends on what your conception of divinity is, because it is different for different people. I will give one interpretation, but know that it is necessarily partial, incomplete, etc. 

 

But desire tends to drive what we spend our time, energy, and (perhaps most of all) our attention on. And we tend to suffer when we don't have what we want--- when what we want is absent from experience. Desire is basically for happiness, although what this means is defined differently by different traditions. 

 

The curious thing is that what we generally want and believe will make us happy are tangible (and also intangible) things--- things usually with form, shape, color, texture, etc. This can range from food, money, sexual partners to high spiritual states (which is why I say usually, many of these states would not be considered tangible). We may expect to find lasting happiness from somehow arranging these things or having these things, but it never happens because they are all impermanent. 

 

Now spirituality comes along and promises us that what we are looking for is not the expression or display of the divine but the divine itself. And surprise, surprise, the divine is not only present in every moment of experience , but it actually transcends and infuses all things. However, we are largely blinded from this astonishing fact by our desire for the display which comes and goes. If we could just loosen our obsession with the display shift our attention, then we could see this and relax, we would find the happiness we seek. 

 

18 hours ago, Nungali said:

What do you mean  " I want you '   regrading a God or Goddess ?   I can understand wanting a Gods qualities , attitudes , communications, knowledge, outlook, etc .  But what does  wanting the God themselves  mean  ? 

 

-  Bear with me  here ..... I dont really even understand the expression when its one human 'wanting' the other .  ... if someone said 'I want you '  I would either be suspicious or  ....  " What for ?    "

 

 

[doc benway]

On 1/22/2021 at 10:47 AM, dwai said:

Ramana Maharshi would often say, "Summa iru" (or Be Quiet, or Just Be). This is a meditation to be tried out. I think the Daoist version of this is called zuowang. Just sitting in silence, resting in one's own nature --- not doing anything. 

 

Thoughts?

 

The core practice of the tradition I follow is just this - resting in one's own nature.

We refer to it as resting in the Nature of Mind and the proverbial pith instruction is - leave it as it is.

 

It is interesting that something so simple, so mundane, can be the source of so much disagreement and secrecy.

 

The reason is that to do this practice properly requires a great deal of precision.

It is extremely easy to miss the mark and getting it wrong often leads to significant problems.

Missing by a hair is just as bad as missing by a mile, in some ways worse because the practitioner doesn't know they've missed and follows a mistaken direction of their own creation moving every farther form the truth.

 

So while I resonate deeply with this practice and have a sense of its value, I also have a solemn respect for it.

I recognize that it is not something anyone can simply access and yet it seems so simple on the surface.

So when one does encounter challenges they are magnified by the apparent simplicity, leading to frustration, anger, even bitterness.

 

 

 

 

[liminal_luke]

Tim Ferris recently sent out this quote from Jiddu Krishnamurti to his email list.  It gave me a felt sense of what it might mean to "simply be."

 

"If you pass through the meadows with their thousand flowers of every color imaginable, from bright red to yellow and purple, and their bright green grass washed clean by last night´s rain, rich and verdant -- again without a single movement of the machinery of thought -- then you will know what love is.  To look at the blue sky, the high full-blown clouds, the green hills with their clean lines against the sky, the rich grass and the fading flower -- to look without a word of yesterday; then, when the mind is completely quiet, silent, undisturbed by any thought, when the observer is completely absent -- then there is unity.  Not that you are united with the flower, or with the cloud, or with those sweeping hills; rather there is a feeling of complete non-being in which the division between you and another ceases. 

 

The woman carrying those provisions which she bought at the market, the big black Alsatian dog, the two children playing with the ball -- if you can look at these without a word, without a measure, without any association, then the quarrel between you and another ceases.  This state, without the word, without thought, is the expanse of the mind that has no boundaries, no frontiers within which the I and the not-I can exist.

 

Don´t think this is imagination, or some flight of fancy, or some desired mystical experience; it is not.  It is as actual as the bee on that flower or the little girl on her bicycle or the man going up a ladder to paint the house -- the whole conflict of the mind in it´s separation has come to an end.  You look without the look of the observer, you look without the value of the word and the measurement of yesterday.  The look of love is different from the look of thought.  The one leads in a direction where thought cannot follow, and the other leads to separation, conflict, and sorrow.  From this sorrow, you cannot go to the other.  The distance between the two is made by thought, and thought cannot by any stride reach the other.

 

As you walk back by the little farmhouses, the meadows, and the railway line, you will see that yesterday has come to an end: life begins where thought ends."

 

Jiddu Krishnamurti

 

(This piece seems resolutely anit-thought, although perhaps that´s my misunderstanding.  Personally, I´m not convinced that the state Jiddu Krishnamurti points to and thought are entirely incompatible.  We could debate.  Nevertheless, this writing transported me.) 

Edited January 24, 2021 by liminal_luke