What is lust

[liminal_luke]

Lust is part of our makeup and I wouldn´t be in a hurry to wipe it out.  It´s like hunger.  Millions of people have issues with food -- I know I do -- but the answer isn´t to eliminate hunger.  Millions of people also have problems with sex -- I take the fifth -- but the answer isn´t to eliminate lust.

[Maddie]

6 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Lust is part of our makeup and I wouldn´t be in a hurry to wipe it out.  It´s like hunger.  Millions of people have issues with food -- I know I do -- but the answer isn´t to eliminate hunger.  Millions of people also have problems with sex -- I take the fifth -- but the answer isn´t to eliminate lust.

 

The goal in Buddhism isn't the elimination of lust. It is the elimination of suffering.

[manitou]

On 1/25/2021 at 6:48 AM, Wilhelm said:

Again, in my opinion, lust in animals is biological.  I think the difference is that humans have created a plethora of mental stimuli to artificially 'jumpstart' what was previously just a naturally occuring process.

 

 

I agree with this.   I think the concept of lust is a mental construct.  It's placing a judgment, a spin,  on the perfectly natural desire to mate.  My long metaphysical journey has led me to believe that all 'It' wants to do is enjoy itself, regardless of what that may be.  It wants to experience, to feel - but puts no 'rights and wrongs' on it.  It's us humanoids that categorize it, causing the drama.

 

The undercurrent of lust, as I see it, often happens when the object of our lust is unavailable or unsuitable.  That may throw it into a slightly different category.  For example, I experience lust when Steve, Silent Thunder, or Michael Sternback are on a thread I'm on.    

 

I assume they're either unsuitable or unavailable.

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by manitou

[Creation]

1 hour ago, ilumairen said:

Does berating someone sound yin to you?

Well, that's the thing. I don't really know what yang and yin are, but I know how I observe men and women to behave. I would have a better idea what you mean by yang and yin if I knew what you consider to be the yin aspect of lust.

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, Creation said:

Well, that's the thing. I don't really know what yang and yin are, but I know how I observe men and women to behave. I would have a better idea what you mean by yang and yin if I knew what you consider to be the yin aspect of lust.

 

Seduction.

[C T]

It'd be a waste to eliminate something so powerful that, with effort & awareness, can be transmuted into fuel for enlightenment. 

 

Thrangu Rinpoche explains, "While the mind is under the influence of the negative emotions, one continues with dualistic mind to wander in the six realms of samsara. When the negative emotions are eliminated, the five wisdoms shine forth. When the five wisdoms are realized, the five dhyana buddhas are realized. One can also look at this process as our mind consisting of eight consciousnesses. When these consciousnesses are purified, five wisdoms shine forth. When the five wisdoms are realized, the five dhyana buddhas are realized. We may ask, “Why do we experience suffering in samsara?” What causes suffering is obviously the five negative emotions. Furthermore, we may wonder, “If the five negative emotions can be overcome, is it really possible to become liberated from the suffering in samsara?” Yes, it is possible to overcome the suffering of samsara. These five negative emotions aren’t simply thrown out or discarded, rather they are transformed from a state of affliction into a state of wisdom by engaging the skillful methods of the Buddhadharma. Transformation of the five negative emotions into the five wisdoms brings realization of enlightenment. Likewise, if we remain perceiving phenomena or reality in a state of ignorance, we will never recognize these consciousnesses and will continue to be in the suffering samsara entails. When the consciousnesses are understood, we are able to transform them into the five wisdoms, the essential nature of the five dhyana buddhas."

 

Five Dhyani Buddhas 

 

 

[ilumairen]

4 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

Seduction.

Opening welcome... invitation.. surrender...

 

You’ve got the idea.

[Creation]

1 hour ago, ilumairen said:

Opening welcome... invitation.. surrender...

 

You’ve got the idea.

It seems that within the yin and yang of lust there is are toxic and non-toxic expressions. For instance, you list non-toxic qualities here, a toxic expression of such yin qualities would be manipulation.

 

If (toxic) possessiveness is yang, is there a yang expression of lust that you would find non-toxic?  

[manitou]

1 hour ago, Creation said:

If (toxic) possessiveness is yang, is there a yang expression of lust that you would find non-toxic?  

 

 

How about the decision to make the first move?

[skyblue]

Here's what I observed. The Yin and Yang aspect of the human mind that drive almost all of the human activity on the planet are the instinctual self-preservation and the desire to expand infinitely respectively. Each one of them expresses themselves in multitudinous ways, including but not limited to : getting attached to ego/the concept of comfort zones/feelings of possessiveness, jealousy, etc. (Yin) and the need to keep getting more, be it land/money/power (Yang).

 

Lust, imo is a somewhere in the middle. A huge part of instinctual self preservation is associated with the feeling of craving sex, and for most mortals (can't find a better term, so I use mortals and cultivators to seperate them), the whole feeling from desire to the process itself and then to the release is one of the only ways they can act upon their desire to expand. The experience of two bodies almost melting into one kinda partly fulfills the subtle desire of experiencing all things as one.

 

10 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Lust is part of our makeup and I wouldn´t be in a hurry to wipe it out.  It´s like hunger.  Millions of people have issues with food -- I know I do -- but the answer isn´t to eliminate hunger.  Millions of people also have problems with sex -- I take the fifth -- but the answer isn´t to eliminate lust.

 

Agreed. That'd be a disaster. 

Lust is a natural effect of the aforementioned aspects of the mind and in itself is a cause for something very, very necessary for existence of the world. 

[ilumairen]

19 hours ago, Creation said:

It seems that within the yin and yang of lust there is are toxic and non-toxic expressions. For instance, you list non-toxic qualities here, a toxic expression of such yin qualities would be manipulation.

 

If (toxic) possessiveness is yang, is there a yang expression of lust that you would find non-toxic?  

Of course there is. 

 

[Creation]

1 hour ago, ilumairen said:

Of course there is. 

 

Oh, pardon my lack of clear expression, I was wondering if you would describe it for me, not question if it existed. 

 

19 hours ago, manitou said:

How about the decision to make the first move?

I agree that decisive action would seem to be the opposite of qualities ilumaniren listed as yin.  Though when discussing these matters I have learned not to assume .