Is it accurate to say that the Buddhist and Taoist differences in approach to practice lies in psychological work vs energy cultivation?

[anshino23]

28 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

So now I'm scratching my head a bit and trying to find something verifiable.

 

Then find a lineage where the signs are physical manifestations that cannot be faked  

[freeform]

58 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

First Christianity said this is the way it IS, but then later I thought "alright but this doesn't really make sense".

 

Then I try qigong, but after a while I feel like I'm just flapping my arms around.

 

Then Buddhism says no this is the way it IS, but then I'm like hmmm I'm not sure.

 

So now I'm scratching my head a bit and trying to find something verifiable.

You keep looking at traditions - I suggest looking at people.

 

Each of these traditions will have some people with genuine methods and experience - and a vast number who are lost.

 

Look for exceptional people and train with them or those connected to them. Tradition doesn’t matter that much.

[freeform]

(Double post)

Edited January 28, 2021 by freeform

[Maddie]

7 minutes ago, freeform said:

You keep looking at traditions - I suggest looking at people.

 

Each of these traditions will have some people with genuine methods and experience - and a vast number who are lost.

 

Look for exceptional people and train with them or those connected to them. Tradition doesn’t matter that much.

 

🤔🤔🤔 Hmmmmm

[Maddie]

16 minutes ago, freeform said:

You keep looking at traditions - I suggest looking at people.

 

Each of these traditions will have some people with genuine methods and experience - and a vast number who are lost.

 

Look for exceptional people and train with them or those connected to them. Tradition doesn’t matter that much.

 

I definitely think there is merit and wisdom and what you're saying. The problem for me is I have come across more than one of these people that I thought were going to be extraordinary and I ended up getting burned.

[freeform]

12 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

The problem for me is I have come across more than one of these people that I thought were going to be extraordinary and I ended up getting burned.

So have I.

 

I just became better and better at recognising the red flags quickly.

[freeform]

Look for skill, character (virtue) and willingness to teach.

 

Pay particular attention to the senior students.

[manitou]

4 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

I definitely think there is merit and wisdom and what you're saying. The problem for me is I have come across more than one of these people that I thought were going to be extraordinary and I ended up getting burned.

 

 

I don't know if this dynamic would be helpful or not, but there is no mention on this thread of the inner work required to prepare the soul for the garden.  If there are too many inner conflicts and conditionings, virtue won't arise on its own.

 

(Getting burned means you had expectations)

[doc benway]

7 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

Thank you, that is good stuff.

 

I think I feel a bit lost lately.

 

First Christianity said this is the way it IS, but then later I thought "alright but this doesn't really make sense".

 

Then I try qigong, but after a while I feel like I'm just flapping my arms around.

 

Then Buddhism says no this is the way it IS, but then I'm like hmmm I'm not sure.

 

So now I'm scratching my head a bit and trying to find something verifiable.

 

** Interestingly enough I just remembered I had some kind of dream last night about yin and yang.

 

I don’t know if this will help but I’ve come to the conclusion that what is verifiable is my own life experience and what makes sense to me in that context. I don’t simply accept any paradigm as the truth. I don’t “believe.” 

 

Buddhism (or in my case Bön) does not tell me “the way it is.” It will if I want it to but Buddhism does not require belief. Buddha said not to simply accept any of it on his word. We need to do the work ourselves and find the “way it is” for ourselves through practice. I don’t buy into all of the wide variety of explanations and concepts and precepts of Bön that I don’t understand or feel a connection to.

 

I buy into what works and makes sense for me. I respect what doesn’t and remain open to the possibility that I may understand more thoroughly in the future, or not. It’s fine either way. What I do accept is how to do specific practices and then I decide whether it is working for me or not. Granted, it takes a fair amount of time, commitment, and skillful guidance to make sure I’m practicing correctly and giving the method a chance to work. I think this applies to Buddhism, Daoism, and any other path.

 

Good luck in your search. 

[Limahong]

37 minutes ago, steve said:

I don’t know if this will help but I’ve come to the conclusion that what is verifiable is my own life experience and what makes sense to me in that context. I don’t simply accept any paradigm as the truth. I don’t “believe.” 

 

Hi steve,

 

I am on the same page with you.

 

Nice to read my own thoughts in print.

 

Thank you.

 

- Anand

 

 

[manitou]

22 hours ago, steve said:

I don’t “believe.” 

 

 

Such an important point.  The thing we seek is experiential, and any attempt to grasp it using the mind (believing) won't get the essence of it.  That's why I 'believe' the questions "Do you believe in God?' and 'Do you believe in Santa?' are one and the same.

[Limahong]

37 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

The thing we seek is experiential, and any attempt to grasp it using the mind (believing) won't get the essence of it.  That's why I 'believe' the questions "Do you believe in God?' and 'Do you believe in Santa?' are one and the same.

 

 

 

Hi Barbara,

 

For me 'feel' is meaningful ~  in tandem with 'experiential' .

 

On Christmas Eve I can 'feel' ~ God... Santa... peace...

 

At this very moment I can 'feel'  qi...

 

 

  

 

 

- Anand

 

 

[Oneironaut]

On 1/28/2021 at 4:27 AM, freeform said:

Control is a funny word... For instance controlling water - you certainly can’t control it in the same way as you could control a brick for instance.

 

You want a brick on your table? You pick it up and move it. You want it under the table? You pick it up and put it there.

 

Try doing that with water...

 

With water everything you do is indirect... you work on plumbing, you work on containers - and you always let water do it’s own thing.
 

So it’s similar with Qi. 
 

For stilling the mind for instance - you don’t need to do anything... simply clearing the river beds will calm the mind (remember Qi is the higher mind). Once you’ve created the ‘container’ for the Qi in your belly... once you’ve cleared the path for it to sink, your mind will naturally quiet down of its own accord.

 

When you’re full of Qi it feels like you’re just back from a long holiday - completely relaxed, vital, full of good mood and nothing bothers you.

 

Pretty much what the person in the link below is stating.

 

https://www.learnjikidenreiki.com/post/a-question-of-reiju-attunements

 

Quote

 

Most people are meditating while stressed, depleted, anxious and addicted to stimulation... and when they look inside they find even more garbage - and the stress increases.

 

You described me in a single sentence. 

 

Quote

 

Secondly Qi can act as a sort of fuel... instead of reaching a kind of nihilistic emptiness in advanced meditation, with Qi, one reaches a stillness out of which radiates a bright light...

 

I hear reiki teachers (from authentic lineages) say "you are the great bright light" or something along those lines. I guess this is what they're referring to. 

 

https://ihreiki.com/blog/the_great_bright_light/?v=7516fd43adaa

 

Quote

 

Healing in yourself usually happens automatically with long term practice. Sometimes you need extra help.
 

When you’re advanced, you can emit Qi from your hands and heal others.

 

What is your opinion on healing systems that cater to absolute beginners? The bolded parts in the quoted text below also makes me very interested in what might be possible later down the road if I decide to work with other systems.  

 

gestating the ‘Spiritual Embryo (ling-tai) of immortality, attaining the enlightened state of mind and achieving the body of pure light known as the ‘Rainbow Body,’

 

Quote

 

The Chinese word for Reiki is Ling Chi

Ling-chi (spiritual energy). Ling-chi is the subtlest and most highly refined of all the energies in the human system and the product of the most advanced stages of practice, whereby the ordinary energies of the body are transformed into pure spiritual vitality. This type of highly refined energy enhances spiritual awareness, improves all cerebral functions, and constitutes the basic fuel for the highest level of spiritual work, such as gestating the ‘Spiritual Embryo (ling-tai) of immortality, attaining the enlightened state of mind and achieving the body of pure light known as the ‘Rainbow Body,’ which serves as a vehicle of entry into the astral realms of existence beyond the material world. ~ Daniel Reid ~ A Complete Guide to Chi Gung

 

 

 

Source: https://ihreiki.com/blog/tribute_to_li_ying_my_taoist_teacher/?v=7516fd43adaa

 

Quote

Trying to reverse engineer things generally gets you nowhere. And often it’s dangerous. These things are developed by thousands of great minds over many hundreds of generations, carefully refining the process generation after generation... Are you smarter and more insightful than that? Can you reverse engineer the whole of physics? Or the whole field of mathematics?  I certainly am not  

 

So although you’re not ‘locked in’ to anything - trying to make your own path to enlightenment is like taking your own made up route to the top of the Everest... 

 

Good point. There are two systems that I'm very interested in (one is mentioned above) but I'm also hoping that they can be combined into one at a later more advanced stage in this journey. At least the reiki system I like is very light and "minimalistic". Since the reiki energy comes from the heavens and downward I guess it's a "water path" too even though it's more rooted in Japanese tantric Buddhism.. I'm not sure. I'll just start practicing again and see where this takes me. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Oneironaut

[Cleansox]

4 hours ago, Oneironaut said:

 

What is your opinion on healing systems that cater to absolute beginners? The bolded parts in the quoted text below also makes me very interested in what might be possible later down the road if I decide to work with other systems.  

 

I did Reiki in the 90-ties, basic level with teachers from two different Branches, and choose one of them to learn the rest of the levels. 

 

My opinion is that the major weakness of Reiki is that it is/was removed from its roots. 

 

One can easily see that in one of the links in @Oneironaut's post above, where teachers are grafting it back on the tantric buddhist tree that it was picked from.

 

My preference would be to search out a teacher that knows any established root system, and, if that teacher considered it a good idea, work with a healing system where beginners are taught external qi healing (this is what you referred to?) after a minimum foundation in the root system is established. 

 

My teacher didn't consider doing that as a beginner being a good idea, so I quit using Reiki.