Damo Mitchell? tell me what you think

[Miffymog]

I enjoyed that video, and I liked what he said at the end about combining wisdom and compassion to achieve what he describes as the goal of Taoism which is to become an upright or true person.

[Fate]

In Buddhism there is much talk of flying needing both the wing of compassion and the wing of wisdom.

Damo has studied the Buddhist and Hindu (Yogic) traditions quite extensively from what I've seen of him.

 

His teachings are pretty clean and "horribly linear" to use his words-but that appeals to many a person and it is nice to have clear goals and stages.

I'm either too crazy or too lazy to fully submit to such a path, but I do recommend his lineage

[Antares]

7 hours ago, Fate said:

His teachings are pretty clean and "horribly linear" to use his words-but that appeals to many a person and it is nice to have clear goals and stages.

How do these goals and stages correlate with classic daosit scriptures? Can you elaborate on it? 

 

7 hours ago, Fate said:

I'm either too crazy or too lazy to fully submit to such a path, but I do recommend his lineage

 

May I know his lineage please?

[Fate]

I hope one of his more dedicated and longer term students will give you a fuller answer Antares.

 

Damo constantly references daoist scriptures and his teachings are very much rooted in the stages of the alchemical process. One of his videos is about the Nei Jing Tu wall imagery in the White Cloud temple and how it reflects the alchemical process. He also elaborates on the Huang Di Yin Fu Jing – Yellow Emperors Hidden Talisman Classic and deciphers the symbolic languages of "Combining Water and Fire" among other things.

 

I suppose to elaborate on linear, it's like Damo teaches first simply aligning the body correctly and being able to focus the mind. A solid foundation-no transmissions or qi projections or enchancements-you simply must learn how to change your body from within through time and effort. After that you can begin awaken the energy body and to sensitivities to Qi, and then you can begin the Nei Gong process of building the Dan Tian foundation, etc. etc. (don't quote me literally here this is just my off the cuff example of stages).

 

He's studied with many teachers but I believe his Daoist practices come from the Northern (Immortality?) schools of Daoist practice, I think I saw it called Sheng Yi somewhere. What I was referring to in my last post is his school is called Lotus Nei Gong, which has these lineages behind it.

[Antares]

5 hours ago, Fate said:

I suppose to elaborate on linear, it's like Damo teaches first simply aligning the body correctly and being able to focus the mind. A solid foundation-no transmissions or qi projections or enchancements-you simply must learn how to change your body from within through time and effort. After that you can begin awaken the energy body and to sensitivities to Qi, and then you can begin the Nei Gong process of building the Dan Tian foundation, etc. etc. (don't quote me literally here this is just my off the cuff example of stages).

 

He's studied with many teachers but I believe his Daoist practices come from the Northern

 

Ok. His teaching seems to be a part of the Northern school. And if I am not mistaken Pregadio describes the Northern neidan theory in his book. Here is a fragment from Pregadio's book.    What are the methods for this stage in Damo's lineage? He describes the sitting method in his book on neidan, but this is not the fist stage method I believe. I am curious to know the Northern schools first stage methods

 

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by Antares

[Fate]

The foundations for his Nei Gong seems to be stabilizing the awareness of the body, watching the breath, then opening Lao Gong point to help create the Lower dan tian

[Antares]

40 minutes ago, Fate said:

The foundations for his Nei Gong seems to be stabilizing the awareness of the body, watching the breath, then opening Lao Gong point to help create the Lower dan tian

 

Every stage of practice and methods in it should have names in Chinese. 

On "Laying the foundation" stage there is supposed to be work with preheaven cultivation 

 

"Stabilizing the awareness" should precede "Laying the foundation" stage 

[Vajra Fist]

On 10/03/2021 at 8:34 AM, Antares said:

May I know his lineage please?

 

He teaches neigong from the Quan Zhen lineage, but he's studied in a broader range of systems

 

http://lotusneigong.com/damo-mitchell-6/

[Antares]

And what are the methods from Quan Zhen he teaches? 

[anshino23]

12 minutes ago, Antares said:

And what are the methods from Quan Zhen he teaches? 

 

 

[Antares]

In this video he provides very general information regarding stages in neidan. And he seems to talk about preliminary practices which precede the methods of Neidan. He only mentions Northern school without naming certain school and stages of Neidan 

[Cleansox]

On 2021-03-10 at 8:55 PM, Antares said:

  What are the methods for this stage in Damo's lineage? He describes the sitting method in his book on neidan, but this is not the fist stage method I believe. I am curious to know the Northern schools first stage methods

 

 

I wonder if the lineage that Damo draws his Nei Dan from has its roots in the Southern School as described by Zhan Boduan. 

 

It seems like Damo has a lot of knowledge about the Nei Gong, and he seems to have a good grasp on the Xing. 

 

But his book on Nei Dan doesn't go into the replenishing, the entire reversal process that seems to be an integral part of the path to Celestial Immortality. 

 

So, can his lineage come from one of the other Nei Dan traditions, one that uses another methodology? 

 

Or, does he follow a request from his teacher and just refrain from publish that aspect of the method? 

 

Both options are likely. 

[anshino23]

On 3/14/2021 at 7:37 PM, Antares said:

And what are the methods from Quan Zhen he teaches? 

 

Neigong prepares for alchemy. It is stage 2 in the below. It is not alchemy. From Damo's publically available instagram: 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMeN872JeJ_/

 

Quote

The alchemical process is deep and esoteric. There is a movement in modern times to reduce it to being about quality of brain and waves and enhancing your psychological states but this really wasn’t what the alchemical process was about. It’s aim was for the development of the golden embryo which was done in a series of stages.
1 – The Yang Qi Circulates
The body must be free of blockages, excesses and deficiencies. There must be an abundance of Yang Qi that flows fully throughout all of the channels of the body.
2 - The Cauldron is Perfected
The Yin field of the Dan Tian is formed and the three ingredients of Yin Qi, Yang Qi and Jing must be combined and cooked together through the alchemical process. This is a lengthy stage that also pretty encapsulates the entire of the Neigong process!
3 – The Embryo is Established
The Jin Dan (金丹) or ‘Golden Elixir’ is developed through alchemical training. It emerges in the region of the upper Dan Tian where it then descends to meet the substance of the lower Dan Tian. The seed is planted and thus the fetus is conceived.
4 – The Embryo is Enlivened
The Golden Embryo is slowly merged with the soul and the spirit of the practitioner until there is no distinction between the two. There are many esoteric and hidden teachings around this part of the process.

 

[anshino23]

On 3/16/2021 at 9:23 AM, Antares said:

In this video he provides very general information regarding stages in neidan. And he seems to talk about preliminary practices which precede the methods of Neidan. He only mentions Northern school without naming certain school and stages of Neidan 

 

"At the current time, Damo continues his practice of Nei Gong within three distinct lines of training. For the time-being Damo wishes to keep these lines and the teachers involved to himself. One teacher wishes to remain anonymous – this is quite normal for Daoist teachers, especially those who do not wish to teach publicly any more! Newer students progress through the public system of Nei Gong based in the Quan Zhen traditions whilst seniors study from within deeper and more challenging lines of this internal process.

Damo is classically initiated into the Longmen (Dragon Gate) lineage of Daoism as well another Quanzhen branch of the tradition. He is also initiated into a line of esoteric Chan Buddhist practice and this line also influences his teachings."

(from: http://lotusneigong.com/damo-mitchell-6/)

[Cleansox]

On 2021-03-10 at 3:39 PM, Fate said:

 

One of his videos is about the Nei Jing Tu wall imagery in the White Cloud temple and how it reflects the alchemical process.

The critique @Antaresmentioned above is relevant for Damo's video on this subject as well, at least the free part of it: A bit more Nei Gong that Zhong-Lu Nei Dan. 

[Antares]

On 17.03.2021 at 10:26 PM, Cleansox said:

I wonder if the lineage that Damo draws his Nei Dan from has its roots in the Southern School as described by Zhan Boduan. 

 

It seems like Damo has a lot of knowledge about the Nei Gong, and he seems to have a good grasp on the Xing. 

 

I think the best way is to question Damo for the names of stages and practices and then send the written inquiry to the Chineese Daoist Association. But I personally  do not think it has any relation to the southern school. Southern schools inherited some methods from Northern Longmen but as far as I know they do Ming methods at the outset and there are no seated methods on the initial stages. I am not familar good enough with Damo''s methods but from what I have read in his book on neidan he proposes to practise the sitting "meditation" along with Dao Yin and Qigong. Zhan Boduan wrote:

 

Quote

不 可 枯 坐 灰 心

 

[students] must not dully sit, ashing [their] hearts.

 

I repeat my query again - if this is Xing method what is the Ming method then? In Southern Schools Ming cultivation precedes Xing cultivation. 

[Cleansox]

41 minutes ago, Antares said:

 there are no seated methods on the initial stages. 

Your Zhan Boduan quote doesn’t really say that, does it? 

 

He is writing about what should happen while practicing, or rather, what not to do while practicing. 

 

If your information comes from the WLP, then that might not be a methodology that is representative for every tradition. 

 

Do you have any sources independent from WLP that state the same? 

[Antares]

46 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

He is writing about what should happen while practicing, or rather, what not to do while practicing. 

 

If your information comes from the WLP, then that might not be a methodology that is representative for every tradition.

 

This information comes from Zhan Boduan. I did not even mention WLP in my previous post. Zhan Boduan means that Ming cultivation precedes Xing cultivation. If you want to have an argument then quote Zhan Baduan where he says that Jing Zuo is the alchemical method that is practised on the initial stage of neidan in Southern School.

 

Quote

The second lineage is the Nanzong, or Southern Lineage, which places at its origins Zhang Boduan, the author of the Wuzhen pian (Awakening to Reality). The lineage is formed by him and four other masters:

● Zhang Boduan (Zhang Ziyang, 987?-1082)
● Shi Tai (Shi Xinglin, ?-1158)
● Xue Daoguang (Xue Zixian, 1078?-1191)
● Chen Nan (Chen Niwan, ?-1213)
● Bai Yuchan (Bai Haiqiong, 1194-1229?)

 

Views of Xing (Nature) and Ming (Existence)

The Northern and Southern lineages have performed the historical function of providing Neidan with two exemplary modes of self-cultivation.

Beizong/Quanzhen originally did not include only Neidan among its practices. From the point of view of the history of Neidan, however, its importance consists the establishment of a major type of Neidan self-cultivation. Beizong places emphasis on Xing (one's inner Nature, which is innately perfected), and accordingly focuses on practices meant to purify one's mind ("emptying the mind," "extinguishing the mind," "ending thoughts"). The underlying doctrines make use of Buddhist notions and terms — in particular, of the doctrine of "seeing one's Nature" (jianxing).

The Nanzong mode of cultivation, instead, places initial emphasis on Ming (one's life as an individual being, including one's "destiny" or function in existence as a whole, and one's endowment of "vital force"), and focuses on practices that intend to compound the Elixir by purifying the main components of the human being: Essence, Breath, and Spirit (jing, qi, shen). These practices follow the sequence Essence → Breath → Spirit → Dao, and consist of a process typically arranged into three main stages, the last of which lies in cultivating one's Xing, or inner Nature. The three main stages are usually called:

(1) "Refining Essence and transmuting it into Breath" (lianjing huaqi)
(2) "Refining Breath and transmuting it into Spirit" (lianqi huashen)
(3) "Refining Spirit and returning to Emptiness" (lianshen huanxu)

https://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/nanzong_beizong.html

 

I repeat the query - what is the Ming method in Damo' school?

[Cleansox]

10 hours ago, Antares said:

 

This information comes from Zhan Boduan. I did not even mention WLP in my previous post. Zhan Boduan means that Ming cultivation precedes Xing cultivation.

I know that, I haven't argued that at all. 

Quote

If you want to have an argument then quote Zhan Baduan where he says that Jing Zuo is the alchemical method that is practised on the initial stage of neidan in Southern School. 

You are the one stating that it cannot be practiced seated. I am the one stating that your quote do not support that, your quote support the notion that sitting in oblivion is not the correct method at this stage, which is not the same thing. 

My request here, that you give some non-WLP source for your statement that this stage cannot be practiced seated, is based on interest. I am always in search for another interesting text on the subject. 

I mentioned WLP because you have referred to that particular school before. 

Quote

 

I repeat the query - what is the Ming method in Damo' school?

You already know the answer to this 😊, and it is unlikely that someone will spell it out here. 

 

But just for this discussion: If one compares the images on pages 154+192 in White moon on the mountain peak with pages 272-274 in A comprehensive guide to Daoist Nei Gong, what conclusion could one come to? 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Cleansox
Added stuff

[Antares]

Cleansox, I never have said that neidan can not be practiced seated. What I said is that in Southern Schools the Ming is cultivatated on the initial stage and it has no relation to sitting since sitting produces Yin. Zhan Boduan says about it. "Dully sitting" is sitting that produces Yin. Not Dull sitting is possible when one has abundant Yang. Also I provided quote from another source (not WLP) where it is said that in southern schools Ming cultivation precedes Xing cultivation, thus I have a reason not to consider Damo' methods as methods which have features of any southern schools which originated from Zhan Boduan legacy. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Antares

[Master Logray]

It is not possible to survive financially to teach sitting.   All current day teachers must go for movement styles or at least standing, these are almost all Ming methods. 

[Cleansox]

6 hours ago, Antares said:

Cleansox, I never have said that neidan can not be practiced seated.

And I never said that you said that, we were discussing one specific stage if I recall right.

 

Doesn't Qianfeng Pai do that stage seated? 

 

A question: Is there another school than WLP that interpret your quote about dully sitting as all seated practices instead of interpreting it as being lost in the void? 

 

Otherwise, your entire chain of reasoning fails on the first part, the unsupported statement that one cannot work with the Ming while seated. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Cleansox
Added stuff

[idquest]

6 hours ago, Master Logray said:

It is not possible to survive financially to teach sitting.   All current day teachers must go for movement styles or at least standing, these are almost all Ming methods. 

 

THis is a good point. Just to note that Wang Liping teaches only sitting meditation and has quite a number of returning students internationally (or pre-covid anyway).

 

But generally yes, very few people feel connection to a sitting still method as a primary method of cultivation.

[Antares]

5 hours ago, Cleansox said:

Doesn't Qianfeng Pai do that stage seated? 

 

A question: Is there another school than WLP that interpret your quote about dully sitting as all seated practices instead of interpreting it as being lost in the void? 

 

I am a little familiar with YuXian Pai methods (initial stage only) and there are NO sitting methods at the outset of practice. All exercises are quite dynamic but on later stage there is static exercise and from what I heared and if I am not mistaken the sitting is done at a much later stage. Also I would like to point out that all initial methods work with preheaven channels (not nourishing yuan qi yet).

I do not think I need to assert rights to correct methods here or to blame someone and to have argument with you. We are talking about Damo' teaching. If you are familiar with his lineage methods then disclose it here please and elaborate on it.   

 

Quote

The seven disciples of Wang Chongyang continue expounding the Quanzhen beliefs. The seven Masters of Quanzhen established the following seven branches.

• Ma Yu (馬鈺): Yuxian lineage (Meeting the Immortals, 遇仙派)

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Antares

[Vajra Fist]

3 hours ago, Antares said:

If you are familiar with his lineage methods then disclose it here please and elaborate on it.   

 

Just on this point, you probably won't get much of an answer here as Damo has requested students of the online school not discuss material from within the syllabus on public forums. I'd think though that you could probably get good answers to your questions (which are waaay over my head - I'm learning his taiji but not the neigong) from his book, or else drop him an email directly. 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Vajra Fist