How would a Taoist handle Gender and trans etc?

[mewtwo]

It has been a long time since I have posted here. I do not really believe in any chi and mystical stuff anymore hence why I don't post here. But I still practice Kung fu and study martial arts for self defense purposes. Anywho in the last couple of years I have seen a lot of people online and in the news who talk of gender. Like there needs to be 50,000 genders and saying things like a woman can have a penis and such. Or people getting upset if you assume their gender. So I am wondering how would a Taoist handle this? What would a Taoist say to someone like this? If a Taoist meet someone and the person got upset that people were assuming their gender or that they did not feel comfortable using what ever restroom they wanted etc. What would a Taoist say to them?

 

Me personally I am reminded of the Taoist philosophy that once you name something it becomes less. Like if you call a chair a chair now you can not eat from it or use it as a night stand or use it as a ladder. It is only good for sitting.

 

Thanks

[dwai]

26 minutes ago, mewtwo said:

It has been a long time since I have posted here. I do not really believe in any chi and mystical stuff anymore hence why I don't post here. But I still practice Kung fu and study martial arts for self defense purposes. Anywho in the last couple of years I have seen a lot of people online and in the news who talk of gender. Like there needs to be 50,000 genders and saying things like a woman can have a penis and such. Or people getting upset if you assume their gender. So I am wondering how would a Taoist handle this? What would a Taoist say to someone like this? If a Taoist meet someone and the person got upset that people were assuming their gender or that they did not feel comfortable using what ever restroom they wanted etc. What would a Taoist say to them?

 

Me personally I am reminded of the Taoist philosophy that once you name something it becomes less. Like if you call a chair a chair now you can not eat from it or use it as a night stand or use it as a ladder. It is only good for sitting.

 

Thanks

Why should gender matter? Or for that matter, any of the external appearances? Spirit has no gender -- gender, personality, etc, etc are just stories we tell ourselves -- some derive from biological memory, some from genetic memory, some from cultural memory, and so on. I personally like to look beyond appearances and see the Being -- awareness in this world of names and forms. At a mental level, everyone wants to love, to be loved, to be appreciated, they want kindness, happiness, joy -- the basic motivations for all people are the same.

 

Let people identify with whatever they identity with -- it is their choice. I might not understand all the reasons why, but who are we to tell others what to think?  

Edited February 19, 2021 by dwai

[liminal_luke]

The people I know who take spirituality seriously tend to think that life is precious and value spiritual cultivation above all else.  They have little time to worry about who uses what bathroom.

[mewtwo]

So is there a reason you guys can not answer my question? I asked a question why cant you give me a direct answer?

[liminal_luke]

I thought I did give a direct answer.  In my opinion, a Taoist wouldn´t get overly concerned with the gender identity of other people.  Unless the person in question is a partner or family member, there´s really nothing to "handle."  I´m happy to call acquintances by whatever pronoun they prefer.  When I use public bathrooms, I don´t much concern myself with the anatomy of peeing neighbors.  It´s a policy that has worked well for me.

[mewtwo]

17 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

I thought I did give a direct answer.  In my opinion, a Taoist wouldn´t get overly concerned with the gender identity of other people.  Unless the person in question is a partner or family member, there´s really nothing to "handle."  I´m happy to call acquintances by whatever pronoun they prefer.  When I use public bathrooms, I don´t much concern myself with the anatomy of peeing neighbors.  It´s a policy that has worked well for me.

 

Ok let me put it this way how would a Taoist handle it if he was at a convention and almost ran into a person in a full costume and said I am sorry sir for almost running into you.. Then the person in question started yelling and getting really upset that the person assumed there gender. What would they say to calm them down?

[liminal_luke]

4 minutes ago, mewtwo said:

 

Ok let me put it this way how would a Taoist handle it if he was at a convention and almost ran into a person in a full costume and said I am sorry sir for almost running into you.. Then the person in question started yelling and getting really upset that the person assumed there gender. What would they say to calm them down?

 

I´m not sure it´s possible to give any definitive answer to questions that start "what would a Taoist  do if....?" because Taoists are a diverse lot and, to my knowledge, there´s not a set code of conduct to cover all these kinds of situations.

 

Personally, I wouldn´t worry too much about calming down an upset stranger.  Their emotions are none of my business.  If they attacked me, I would defend myself.  If they destroyed property, I would call the police.  If they were merely upset, I´d probably offer a quick apology for the confusion and then go eat a hotdog.  

[ilumairen]

6 minutes ago, mewtwo said:

 

Ok let me put it this way how would a Taoist handle it if he was at a convention and almost ran into a person in a full costume and said I am sorry sir for almost running into you.. Then the person in question started yelling and getting really upset that the person assumed there gender. What would they say to calm them down?

Too late for “calming them down” at that point. 
 

Perhaps in the future simply not using the word “sir” could avoid such situations?

 

BTW My dad was about as manly as men get, and he never took to being called “sir” either - often responding with “I work for a living,” coupled with a good deal of disdain for the term.

[natural]

I am fond of the movie "To Sir with Love".

I am currently using Mister as a sign of respect to those whom I know will recognize it is a sign of respect.

Hi I am (fill in with your name), what do you prefer to be called?

For what its worth personally I find intent carries a lot of weight.

 

[Sketch]

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Lan _Caihe

[liminal_luke]

2 minutes ago, Sketch said:

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Lan _Caihe

 

I knew I shouldn´t of posted my picture on that dating site.  Now it´s all over the internet!

Edited February 19, 2021 by liminal_luke

[Scholar]

We use our techniques the same way we use on everyone. Theyre made of the same matter of us so we can fuck them up the same way

[Zorro Dantes]

A wise old fella once told me, in pertains to the question...you shouldn't be so fixated on such anybody's individual choices...least you are fixing to fold  

[dwai]

54 minutes ago, mewtwo said:

 

Ok let me put it this way how would a Taoist handle it if he was at a convention and almost ran into a person in a full costume and said I am sorry sir for almost running into you.. Then the person in question started yelling and getting really upset that the person assumed there gender. What would they say to calm them down?

It's almost impossible to tell what might calm them down. Maybe an apology and then move on. The Taoist (in this case) didn't mean to upset the person and justifiably can't do any more than an apology to have upset them unknowingly. Each of us is responsible for our own emotional state, well-being, etc, etc.

[Apech]

1 hour ago, mewtwo said:

 

Ok let me put it this way how would a Taoist handle it if he was at a convention and almost ran into a person in a full costume and said I am sorry sir for almost running into you.. Then the person in question started yelling and getting really upset that the person assumed there gender. What would they say to calm them down?

 

 

What's a full costume?  ... in any case just apologise and ask them how they would prefer to be addressed??

[liminal_luke]

41 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

 

What's a full costume?  ... i

 

he asked, looking for all the world like a little white cat.  (Not that I´m one to talk.)

Edited February 19, 2021 by liminal_luke

[RiverSnake]

Looking at things from a Chinese perspective.....Gender norms are extremely strict. There are very different rules for Men and Women. The idea that someone can just imagine themselves being part of the other sex....would likely be meet with rejection and ridicule. 

 

On a Taoist level....identifying with the physical is a "Trap". Sometimes you reincarnate as a Man, a Women or a Tree. In the spiritual sense we our 'Fluid Beings", but once we incarnate....things are stuck in "form" for awhile. 

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by RiverSnake

[silent thunder]

[Apech]

4 hours ago, RiverSnake said:

Looking at things from a Chinese perspective.....Gender norms are extremely strict. There are very different rules for Men and Women. The idea that someone can just imagine themselves being part of the other sex....would likely be meet with rejection and ridicule. 

 

On a Taoist level....identifying with the physical is a "Trap". Sometimes you reincarnate as a Man, a Women or a Tree. In the spiritual sense we our 'Fluid Beings", but once we incarnate....things are stuck in "form" for awhile. 

 

 

 

 

A trap ... ok ... I won't go there.

 

 

[thelerner]

8 hours ago, mewtwo said:

So is there a reason you guys can not answer my question? I asked a question why cant you give me a direct answer?

What is the transgendered person's name?  What do they do for a living?  When were they born?  What is their major?  

These things may affect how said Taoist will react to the question.  

 

imo the best of Taoism doesn't fit into any neat stereotype.  A true Taoist may be hard to predict.  

 

For example if their name was Jon, they did carpentry for a living, were born north of Peking and dropped out high school to apprentice carpentry, then a Taoist who needed work done on his back porch would probably be quite welcoming.  Taoist can be a very practical lot.

Edited February 20, 2021 by thelerner