Restore yuan qi

[apdo]

I mean I was doing that habits even before I know about qiqong and alchemy because I always look after my health and go away from stuff harm my body 

[Antares]

23 hours ago, apdo said:

Lol I will just remove that question from my head I will use my own method and let it take the time it need if just need anything I will ask viod or in form no need to rush

 

But what is your method? You can do methods online if you have money. I know Russian branch Of Wu Liu does quite powerful transmission even online. 

[apdo]

I just left army no job yet so no money and my method is viod s method  I will check Dao mai too

[Antares]

20 minutes ago, apdo said:

I just left army no job yet so no money and my method is viod s method  I will check Dao mai too

 

Fair enough. In this case I suppose the best "method" is to be capable of earning. Without it no one can make progress on the Path. All life is the path (Dao)

[Creation]

On 3/2/2021 at 5:07 AM, apdo said:

How long you think it will take to repilsh my yuan qi to start fill Dan Tien I am 24y old I train my body do martial arts never had sex done masturbation like 15 times only in my whole life was in a month when I was in army I always almost always try maintain   celibacy mind but was for other reasons than alchemy  I was doing some qiqong training over the years but wasn't much just small amount every week and thanks

You don't need to replenish your yuan qi prior to filling dantian, you just need a correct method.  Damo Mitchell has such a method and teaches online, can't speak for other teachers.  In addition to a correct method, you do need your jing consolidated rather than scattered to build the dantian.  It's not just sexual activity that scatters jing, but also emotional and mental overactivity, keep that in mind.  But it's not as though any thought, emotion, or sexual activity will ruin your progress if you have a method designed for householders, moderation should be sufficient.  

 

Working with yuan qi comes later.

[Antares]

Just wonder how one can verify Damo's method is authentic one? I did not even see he mentioned lineage from which he inherited methods. I read 2 books of him and to me it seems he teaches qigong mostly. Standing and sitting methods. I did not even notice proper preliminary method for balancing. Standing methods are not much of help without foundation or basic work which is supposed to be dynamic exercises. BUT this is only me personal opinion, I did not see all methods that he teaches and there might be far not everything disclosed in his books.   

[Wilhelm]

10 minutes ago, Antares said:

Just wonder how one can verify Damo's method is authentic one?

If people do it, and it works, then what else needs to be said for authenticity?

10 minutes ago, Antares said:

I did not even see he mentioned lineage from which he inherited methods.

There's some information on this in his public bio.  The methods he teachers come from his teacher within Dragon Gate, but he personally studies with a few people.

10 minutes ago, Antares said:

I read 2 books of him and to me it seems he teaches qigong mostly. Standing and sitting methods.

The books go into detail about the basics.  The online program goes much deeper, and then his in-person lessons go deeper still.  He seems really concerned about safety - and the implications of giving people methods they're not ready for.

10 minutes ago, Antares said:

I did not even notice proper preliminary method for balancing. Standing methods are not much of help without foundation or basic work which is supposed to be dynamic exercises.

I seem to remember that this is the Russian schools take on the foundations, and definitely that school has a different method than Damo, but could you be more specific than 'preliminary method for balancing'?

 

His standing and sitting postures as described in the book are 'neutral' postures, and wouldn't put anyone 'out of balance' in any way I can think of (unless they're combined with other methods, maybe)

10 minutes ago, Antares said:

BUT this is only me personal opinion, I did not see all methods that he teaches and there might be far not everything disclosed in his books.   

Yeah in the few years I've studied with him I think it's safe to say under 10% of what's public is shown in the books.  They're rich in theory but give only the safest and most basic of methods, because that's not really the modality for delivering complex methods.

 

 

[Antares]

4 minutes ago, Wilhelm said:

Yeah in the few years I've studied with him I think it's safe to say under 10% of what's public is shown in the books.  They're rich in theory but give only the safest and most basic of methods, because that's not really the modality for delivering complex methods.

 

I see... You say it works for people. Can you discribe any specific feature that can indicate that yuan qi is restored? In general I suppose this is Northern type of methods but may be I am wrong. Northern methods are based on sitting methods in which one is reaching utter Yin which then is supposed to be turned into Yang.

 

Yes, Russian preliminary method (Daogong) is quite specific one but in my opinion it is given in the outset quite reasonably for it allows  an individual to feel qi and it builds energy body balancing it. Also is very good for Yi development. With low Yi Neidan methods makes no sense     

[Wilhelm]

12 minutes ago, Antares said:

 

I see... You say it works for people. Can you discribe any specific feature that can indicate that yuan qi is restored? 

I can't, because I'm not at this stage yet.  I thought you were replying to Creation, who was talking about filling the Dan Tien.

12 minutes ago, Antares said:

Yes, Russian preliminary method (Daogong) is quite specific one but in my opinion it is given in the outset quite reasonably for it allows  an individual to feel qi and it builds energy body balancing it. Also is very good for Yi development. With low Yi Neidan methods makes no sense     

Sure.  There's lots of ways to improve energy sensitivity and develop Yi, and I'm sure Daogong is one effective method, considering the positive reputation of its practitioners.  

[Antares]

2 minutes ago, Wilhelm said:

I can't, because I'm not at this stage yet.  I thought you were replying to Creation, who was talking about filling the Dan Tien.

 

I see. I saw specific feature of yuan qi development in one of the Wu Liu' practitioners. Does not matter to whom I am talking here, the idea is that everything should be verified. If I am right on the Damo' Northern path methods than this is quite specific method which I would not be attached.with.   

 

[Wilhelm]

15 minutes ago, Antares said:

the idea is that everything should be verified.

Agreed

15 minutes ago, Antares said:

If I am right on the Damo' Northern path methods than this is quite specific method which I would not be attached.with.   

I would say you are making presumptions, but that's ok.  This is a pretty complex topic, and it sounds like you have access to a method that works for you already, anyways.

[Antares]

18 minutes ago, Wilhelm said:

This is a pretty complex topic, and it sounds like you have access to a method that works for you already, anyways.

I do not practise Neidan yet

[Wilhelm]

1 minute ago, Antares said:

I do not practise Neidan yet

Fair enough!

 

To bring this back on topic for the OP, I think its safe to say that no authorities on Yuan Qi development have posted in this thread yet, though there have been some named schools mentioned that teach these methods to advanced students.

[Antares]

42 minutes ago, Wilhelm said:

I would say you are making presumptions, but that's ok.  This is a pretty complex topic

 

Yes, complex, but mind you it is worth reading Traditional Daoist scriptures on the topic. I have got Damo's book actually and just was going to read it and now it is good chance for me to read it. So here fragments from his book "White Moon On The Mountain Peak":

Page 23: Starting out in NeiDan or Internal Alchemy is much like building a campfire. In the beginning we must prepare the ground and collect together firewood. . The kindling is burned first to produce a small flame and from here we tend to the fire until it is burning brightly, producing the warmth and light we are seeking... We prepare our body and set up the correct internal conditions for our practice. From here we begin to "light the fire" through the use of our breath and very precise methods until we have a healthy degree of energetic warmth in the lower abdomen.       And what are the methods he is talking about? Page 24:

 

Unlike many other traditions Neidan sitting practices seamlessly work together with standing and moving energetic exercises such as Dao Yin and Qigong to create a dynamic system which encompasses a veriety of internal techniques.  

 

To me it makes no sense. First of all what breath is he talking about? Second - Dao Yin is more health orintated, there are ancient forms of Dao Yin and some schools use it as preparatory methods but not as method of Neidan. Neidan methods are unique and comprise the Pai' unique method but this is not Dao Yin or Qigong. To me  he seems to mean the sitting as main method. Sitting produces Yin. 

Also Neidan does not use breath as it is postheaven energy, Neidan does not work qith postheaven energy.

So to me this sounds like Northern method of Neidan which quite widespread in China    

 

 

 

[Wilhelm]

Just now, Antares said:

 

Maybe when we're both experienced Nei Dan practitioners, we can speak about it experientially instead of hypothetically.

 

As it is, I can only speak to the theory!

[Antares]

4 minutes ago, Wilhelm said:

Maybe when we're both experienced Nei Dan practitioners, we can speak about it experientially instead of hypothetically.

 

As it is, I can only speak to the theory!

 

Before beginning any practise it worths reading theory. Otherwise you can do something wrong what is not Neidan.  

But I have experience of some Pai' initial methods. Even from this perspective I can compare it with other Pai method

Edited March 4, 2021 by Antares

[Wilhelm]

5 minutes ago, Antares said:

 

Before beginning any practise it worths reading theory. Otherwise you can do something wrong what is not Neidan.  

But I have experience of some Pai' initial methods. Even from this perspective I can compare it with other Pai method

Yeah, theory definitely helps. I don't know what initial methods you're talking about do I can't comment, but as far as what and what isn't Nei Dan, going back to what you said earlier:

1 hour ago, Antares said:

the idea is that everything should be verified. 

Since we haven't started yet, our opinions aren't worth very much. 

[Antares]

1 minute ago, Wilhelm said:

Since we haven't started yet, our opinions aren't worth very much. 

I meant verifying somebody who teaches Neidan whether he indicates the features of successful Neidan practise. 

Also I am not talking about "my" opinion and I rely on Daoist classics. I just attach value to daoist scriptures and theories on Neidan.

But it up to you, may be you disagree   

 

 

[Wilhelm]

9 minutes ago, Antares said:

I meant verifying somebody who teaches Neidan whether he indicates the features of successful Neidan practise. 

Also I am not talking about "my" opinion and I rely on Daoist classics. I just attach value to daoist scriptures and theories on Neidan.

But it up to you, may be you disagree   

For the sake of the OP, I'm going to respond to you by PM, so that this thread can be saved for relevant information

[Cleansox]

Actually, it would be more interesting if you put up a list of things that would verify a practitioners accomplishment in Nei Dan, especially compared to a similar list for a person who is accomplished in Nei Gong, so that we can see that there is no overlap between the two. 

 

Teeth grown back? 

Grey hair turned black? 

External genitals shrunk until non-existent? 

Nezhia-body? 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Cleansox
Added stuff

[Antares]

Cleansox, this is secret info. I myself know only a few aspects of verification. But that one I mentioned was quite obvious to me 

[Creation]

@Antares, I'll try to the points you raise as best as I can. 

 

12 hours ago, Antares said:

Just wonder how one can verify Damo's method is authentic one? I did not even see he mentioned lineage from which he inherited methods. I read 2 books of him and to me it seems he teaches qigong mostly. Standing and sitting methods. I did not even notice proper preliminary method for balancing. Standing methods are not much of help without foundation or basic work which is supposed to be dynamic exercises. BUT this is only me personal opinion, I did not see all methods that he teaches and there might be far not everything disclosed in his books.

Damo doesn't list his teachers, and does seem to teach a kind of potpourri of different methods at first glance.  The reason I trusted he is authentic, to be completely honest, is @freeform said he is, that his methods are all in service to the process of neigong and neidan in one line of Longmenpai, and I trust freeform.  Notice "one line of Longmenpai".  Different lines can do things quite differently, Longmenpai has been around a long time and spread over across huge distances.  So if your line does things differently, that doesn't mean someone else's line is counterfeit.  

 

"First of all what breath is he talking about?"

-Scholar and martial fire breathing.

 

"Second - Dao Yin is more health orintated, there are ancient forms of Dao Yin and some schools use it as preparatory methods but not as method of Neidan. Neidan methods are unique and comprise the Pai' unique method but this is not Dao Yin or Qigong. To me  he seems to mean the sitting as main method. Sitting produces Yin. 

Also Neidan does not use breath as it is postheaven energy, Neidan does not work qith postheaven energy."

-Damo talks about neigong, alchemy, and meditation as three interlinked but different processes.  Dao yin means movement exercises that strongly lead qi to the limbs, for instance for purging purposes, vs qigong which concentrates energy in the torso.  Both of these are useful along the path of neigong and neidan as supplementary exercises.  For instance, Damo's core "entry level" curriculum that is in his books and courses (both online and in person) contains 2 primary qigong sets and 2 primary daoyin sets, which are done standing, neigong work for building yin and yang qi in the danitan, which can be done seated or standing, and working with the firing process and the microcosmic orbit through the scholar and martial breathing, done sitting, as entry level alchemy work once you've made some progress on the former.   

 

I don't have any authority to speak for Damo, and have only studied his online course, that's just my best attempt to paraphrase how I have heard him explain things. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Creation

[Cleansox]

29 minutes ago, Antares said:

Cleansox, this is secret info. 

So people say. 

 

But if that list would be the same for people who have developed the "qigong body" and for people who are into Nei Dan proper, then that list would be without value. 

 

Is there any classic text, translated into english, that lists any of these? 

The ones I have read seems to focus on internal experiences as signs. 

[Antares]

24 minutes ago, Creation said:

Scholar and martial fire breathing.

I have found the Damo's article here:

https://damomitchell.com/2019/08/20/stages-of-breathing/

Seems nothing about 

The precelestial Breath is the original and initial Ancestral Breath.⁽¹⁾ This Ancestral Breath is in the real center of Heaven and Earth within the human body. [Placed between] the Secret Door and the Gate of Life, hanging in the middle, it is the Heart of Heaven.⁽²⁾ The self-cultivation of the divine Immortals only consists in collecting the precelestial One Breath and using it as the Mother of the Elixir. 

https://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/ruyao_jing_1.html

 

But I will continue reading his book. What I can say now Wu Liu people do not recommend sitting more than 20 minutes per day. As I said sitting produces Yin. WLP people say it is good for quieting the mind but is not alchemy at all. They wanted to spread Longmen lineage as well but rejected that idea as far as I know. But may be something changed recently.

 

[Antares]

9 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

Is there any classic text, translated into english, that lists any of these? 

The ones I have read seems to focus on internal experiences as signs. 

 

Good question and I would like to get that list as well.  Both internal and external of course. I meant external sign that I saw.  That probably could be achieved through Qigong as well but I believe it was due to preheaven energy feature. I know that person was a personal student of the famous Chinese XinYi master and they had preheaven cultivation in their style. I do not think that  Chinese master would do postheaven only training