Restore yuan qi

[Cleansox]

When it manifest physically, isn't that post heaven? 

 

[Wilhelm]

4 hours ago, Antares said:

I have found the Damo's article here:

https://damomitchell.com/2019/08/20/stages-of-breathing/

Seems nothing about 

The precelestial Breath is the original and initial Ancestral Breath.⁽¹⁾ This Ancestral Breath is in the real center of Heaven and Earth within the human body. [Placed between] the Secret Door and the Gate of Life, hanging in the middle, it is the Heart of Heaven.⁽²⁾ The self-cultivation of the divine Immortals only consists in collecting the precelestial One Breath and using it as the Mother of the Elixir. 

https://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/ruyao_jing_1.html

 

But I will continue reading his book. What I can say now Wu Liu people do not recommend sitting more than 20 minutes per day. As I said sitting produces Yin. WLP people say it is good for quieting the mind but is not alchemy at all. They wanted to spread Longmen lineage as well but rejected that idea as far as I know. But may be something changed recently.

 

Apples and oranges.  This article describes a foundational breathing process quite separate to the scholar and martial breathing previously discussed

[Cleansox]

Using the index of the book would have been easier, followed by opening the book at page 189.

[Cleansox]

10 hours ago, Antares said:

 

To me  he seems to mean the sitting as main method. Sitting produces Yin. 

 

The method should be to collect the one yang hidden in water and use the heche to start the transformation into the external medicine. 

 

There are probably seated practices for this. 

[Cleansox]

13 hours ago, Antares said:

 

.Also is very good for Yi development. With low Yi Neidan methods makes no sense     

Without zhenyi true intention neidan methods makes no sense. 

This is normally developed by xin methods, and is different from the yi normally developed by daoyin or basic level IMA. 

[Antares]

13 hours ago, Cleansox said:

When it manifest physically, isn't that post heaven? 

 

 

Dan Tien has physical manifestation,for example. On the certain stage the flow of yuan qi can be perceived as a physical substance, not that you can see it with your eyes but its manifestation will be quite obviuos. And this is where certain "siddhas" (abilities) come from. 

I do not say I have it but I know that it is possible (I witnessed it). As for postheaven cultivation it can either impart some abilities there is a difference concerning internal state of the individual. All extra abilities or states of mind have underlying energies behind it. For example, authentic Iron Shirt is qigong or neidan? Now some teachers sell it as qigong exercises but in my opinion it is based on preheaven qi cultivation. If you posteaven Iron Shirt then you might get some results but they are not compared to preheaven qi results

[Antares]

5 hours ago, Cleansox said:

Using the index of the book would have been easier, followed by opening the book at page 189.

 

I did. He only mentioned that embryonic breathing is possible and that he only had glimpses of it. That' all. Shall I consider all the book as a instruction for Neidan training? I suppose NO. He describes sitting practise and his experience with postheaven qi (breath) work. This is preparation stage only and far not the best. As I said it is crucial to keep right balance of Yin and Yang and this is one of the essential feature of the Daoism. I do not mean it does not work but the issue how to stay healthy and balanced when you cultivate. Breath work is very dangerous for it can easily lead to imbalances. Dmitri Artemyev, the personal disciple of the Teacher of Single Yang, related stories how his Teacher explained once the differences between sitting cultivation systems and dynamic ones. He even brought him to some Longmen practitioners and he was able to see the difference - many of them had health issues and did not look healthy. There was a reason for that - abundant Yin. So what Damo does and explains in his book?  He took the method of sitting cultavationed and mixed it with other qigong systems which he picked up somewhere in China. That' good if he can maintain the balance but you should watch you state if you do this. I would not do it without knowleageable teacher who can see your energy state and can do corrections   

[Antares]

4 hours ago, Cleansox said:

Without zhenyi true intention neidan methods makes no sense. 

This is normally developed by xin methods, and is different from the yi normally developed by daoyin or basic level IMA. 

 

Daogong has several levels and the results are not the same on every stage. Every exercise can be performed with different level of Yi work. People who practise alchemy have higher levels of Yi development. Yes, IMA is deeper than Daogong. Latter one is good point to start for the vast majority for far not everyone can perform IMA exercises right in the outset. Contemporary people are not in perfect states of mind and energy and they need proper initial methods. In the Past Chinese people could start off with Xing methods right away but now all people need xin method in the beginning.  

Edited March 5, 2021 by Antares

[Cleansox]

1 hour ago, Antares said:

 

Dan Tien has physical manifestation,for example. On the certain stage the flow of yuan qi can be perceived as a physical substance, not that you can see it with your eyes but its manifestation will be quite obviuos. 

And manifestation, especially physical, is...? 

In my opinion, you are widening the subject here in a way that moves beyond the classics, so I will leave that. 

[Cleansox]

1 hour ago, Antares said:

 Shall I consider all the book as a instruction for Neidan training? I suppose NO. 

Didn't we agree earlier in this thread that there is no book that can be read as a manual on this subject? 

My point was just about the martial/scholar fire breath. 

1 hour ago, Antares said:

This is preparation stage only and far not the best.

Yes. 

[Antares]

6 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

And manifestation, especially physical, is...?

Real Dan Tien. Balance. Martial abilities... Sex drive... Strong body. Is it beyond classics?

 

 

[Cleansox]

9 minutes ago, Antares said:

Real Dan Tien. Balance. Martial abilities... Sex drive... Strong body. Is it beyond classics?

 

 

Manifestation is sometimes called leakage, or side doors. 

Can't really recall any text I have read that say we create Elixir in order to have more sex or become warriors. 

And if I recall right, we activate the real dantian in order to be able to work with the Yuan "substances", so it is not a result in it self. 

Your studies must have gone deeper than mine. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Cleansox
Added sentences.

[Antares]

8 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

Manifestation is sometimes called leakage, or side doors. 

Can't really recall any text I have read that say we create Elixir in order to have more sex or become warriors. 

Your studies must have gone deeper than mine. 

I' ll tell more All chinese IMA of the Past worked with yuan qi on the deep level. Dmitri Artemyev managed to find a few teachers who preserved neidan in IMA. Very rare thing these days. And who knows may be Neidan originates from IMA. But I believe they have the same Nature 

[Cleansox]

Cool. 

A bit opposite from the image of the area that I get from the procedure described in translated texts, but it is a huge area of practices so why not? 

 

In my tradition, the IMA changes as we work with JinDan, but is not in itself an important aspect of that procedure. 

 

It is more useful, in the later stage of practice, as a tool for integration. 

 

When it comes to other IMA's, is the martial art also the Nei Dan, or is it so that some traditions do both, parallell? 

 

If we look at the Chen family (taijiquan), I have a picture of a senior family member in a position that has no martial use but is a sibling to one of the positions my tradition use for a specific purpose in building the Nei Dan process. 

 

And Qianfeng Pai has its own family IMA-style, as does quite a few others (including several Long Men Pai lineages). 

 

My belief though, is that the spiritual path of Nei Dan did not evolve from the martial side, but again, not being a historian I might be wrong here. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Cleansox
Added sentences.

[Master Logray]

If not recalled wrongly, Damo has written that he was expelled by his faction due to some argument with fellow disciples.   So whatever his teaches now, those must be his own "cocktail" of methods.

 

I have read his book.  It is surprise that he have a wide understanding of Taoism and different methods.   However it is difficult to know his depth of knowledge.

 

BTW what is the full name for IMA?

 

 

 

[Cleansox]

15 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

 

BTW what is the full name for IMA?

Internal Martial Art

[apdo]

I see my topic started a nice discussion good I am reading and learning more xd

[apdo]

I am about mix most of these stuff and just risk it and start my training for real cuz I got bored of that same story for yearsssss like 8 years I wanted to work with qi and when start a method and start feel it I stop cuz I hear it's wrong and can damage me then again and again even though I feel em I got sick like I need to travel to China and find a master myself or start now 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Master Logray]

14 hours ago, apdo said:

I am about mix most of these stuff and just risk it and start my training for real cuz I got bored of that same story for yearsssss like 8 years I wanted to work with qi and when start a method and start feel it I stop cuz I hear it's wrong and can damage me then again and again even though I feel em I got sick like I need to travel to China and find a master myself or start now 🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

You have the advantage of being quite young, full of yang chi, and having good control of sex urges.   It is a very good basis that many of the people here can only admire.  But your problem in having access to genuine teaching is real and unfortunately common enough, though with varying degrees. 

 

To aid your progress, I would have a few suggestions until you are more ready.  Firstly, you try to get hold of all sorts of information, you don't need to follow and practise, but building up your knowledge scope is very important.   The second important thing is to conserve your Jing, which, in short, means moderation of everything, good or bad things included.  The rationale is that income is good but expenditure must be controlled.   The third one is to refrain from all complicated trainings to avoid risks and no one to save you once in trouble. 

 

Finally, mixing of techniques is not desirable, but seems unavoidable in your situation.

 

 

[apdo]

Yeah man thanks and that what I was trying to do for years build info and experience since I didn't have access to a master and try kinda avoid complex training or ask and learn more I try avoid that but sometimes it's hard find all but I use my experience and brain to not mix anything but the jab there mix from other thing that is near it and what seem would go with both and thanks  for help man

Edited March 7, 2021 by apdo
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