non locality of spacetime and consiousness

[Hannes]

Last week a random video popped up on my YouTube feed about ESP and it was interesting in the sense that the person (Russel Targ) both has an extensive career as a laser engineer and ESP researcher for the government. 

 

The most important part of his book is that he tries to put into math the theory of non locality of spacetime and in doing so explains the possibility of ESP and other phenomena many of us have experienced in our lives or hear from other people.

Not to mention old Buddhist explain a similar fashion.

 

I wonder if there is more theories out there that try to use science to prove the "super natural" (I hate that word because not is outside of nature).

[Nungali]

Yes . Well, perhaps not a 'hard' science , but psychology  has some theories about it .

 

Circuit 8 in Exo-psychology  is deemed to be 'non-local ' consciousness, and if so would explain some of our 'rarer' abilities .

 

"  8 - The Psycho-atomic Circuit allows access to the intergalactic consciousness that predates life in the universe (characterized as God, the Overmind and lets humans operate outside of space-time and the constraints of relativity. This circuit is associated with Ketamine and DMT by Leary. (Called also by Leary The Neuro-Atomic Circuit or The Metaphysiological Circuit, Robert Anton Wilson called this circuit The Quantum Non-Local Circuit.) "

 

https://psychology.wikia.org/wiki/8-Circuit_Model_of_Consciousness

Edited March 3, 2021 by Nungali

[Hannes]

On 3/3/2021 at 3:50 PM, Nungali said:

Yes . Well, perhaps not a 'hard' science , but psychology  has some theories about it .

 

Circuit 8 in Exo-psychology  is deemed to be 'non-local ' consciousness, and if so would explain some of our 'rarer' abilities .

 

"  8 - The Psycho-atomic Circuit allows access to the intergalactic consciousness that predates life in the universe (characterized as God, the Overmind and lets humans operate outside of space-time and the constraints of relativity. This circuit is associated with Ketamine and DMT by Leary. (Called also by Leary The Neuro-Atomic Circuit or The Metaphysiological Circuit, Robert Anton Wilson called this circuit The Quantum Non-Local Circuit.) "

 

https://psychology.wikia.org/wiki/8-Circuit_Model_of_Consciousness

 

I wonder if someone or a group of people continued his work. It is interesting but seems a bit dated.

 

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Hannes said:

 

I wonder if someone or a group of people continued his work. It is interesting but seems a bit dated.

 

 

Yes. But it went  underground .  Some experimented  ( ie, in production - chemists ) with types of LSD designed for specific purposes, including intelligence increase .  Now they are elderly and retired  Some had younger  'acolytes' .

 

I am rather keen on Hamilton ;

 

 

 

[Nungali]

In the other one in the series,  ( where Hamilton goes out into the desert to a ranch with an 'acolyte'  of the old retired couple that lived there . They where some of the underground next generation that did research after Leary  ... the couple was very old , there was still the remains of a lab where they made different varieties , focused on different effects, like intelligence increase They found some stashes out in the desert and dug up some 'products' still intact )   here on tv . I dont think that episode is available to post here ?

 

 

Ultra LSD

With the precise structure of LSD’s molecular target identified, Hamilton discusses a new era of psychedelic research and, along the way, meets pioneers of the field.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Nungali

[Nintendao]

The Penrose-Hameroff Orch OR theory correlates non-local quantum phenomena with the tubulin structures in living cells.

 

 

 

https://galileocommission.org/the-quantum-soul-a-scientific-hypothesis-hameroff-chopra-2012/

Quote

The concept of consciousness existing outside the body (e.g. near-death and out-of body experiences, NDE/OBEs, or after death, indicative of a ‘soul’) is a staple of religious traditions but shunned by conventional science because of an apparent lack of rational explanation. However conventional science based entirely on classical physics cannot account for normal in-the-brain consciousness. The Penrose-Hameroff ‘Orch OR’ model is a quantum approach to consciousness, connecting brain processes (microtubule quantum computations inside neurons) to fluctuations in fundamental spacetime geometry, the fine-scale structure of the universe. Recent evidence for significant quantum coherence in warm biological systems, scale-free dynamics and end-of-life brain activity support the notion of a quantum basis for consciousness which could conceivably exist independent of biology in various scalar planes in spacetime geometry.

...

Quantum theory tells us that physical processes occur in discrete, quantized steps, or levels. The laws that govern the quantum differ strangely from the predictable reality of our everyday "classical" world. At small scales, and sometimes at large scales, the bizarre laws of quantum mechanics reign. For example, atoms and subatomic quantum particles can exist in two or more states or places simultaneously, more like waves than particles, and existing as multiple coexisting possibilities known as quantum superposition, governed by a quantum wave function. Another quantum property is "nonlocal entanglement," in which components of a spatially separated system remain unified and connected (Penrose 1989). 

Physics circumvents the strangeness of quantum mechanics by strictly dividing the macro/classical and micro/quantum, keeping the two worlds apart. However, consciousness somehow bridges the macro/classical and micro/quantum domains, equivalent to the subject - object split. Consciousness exists precisely on the edge between quantum and classical.

...

Thus altered states of consciousness may involve transcendence to deeper, more intense levels of experience, deeper levels of reality, e.g., consistent with Vedic astral planes or lokas, and enlightenment reached by meditation and spiritual practices. Such enhanced, altered states need not involve alternative dimensions or universes, but rather deeper, more fine scale geometry in nonlocal holographic-like levels or scales in this one universe.  

 

 

[Zhongyongdaoist]

16 hours ago, Nintendao said:

The Penrose-Hameroff Orch OR theory correlates non-local quantum phenomena with the tubulin structures in living cells.

 

 

 

https://galileocommission.org/the-quantum-soul-a-scientific-hypothesis-hameroff-chopra-2012/

Quote

The concept of consciousness existing outside the body (e.g. near-death and out-of body experiences, NDE/OBEs, or after death, indicative of a ‘soul’) is a staple of religious traditions but shunned by conventional science because of an apparent lack of rational explanation. However conventional science based entirely on classical physics cannot account for normal in-the-brain consciousness. The Penrose-Hameroff ‘Orch OR’ model is a quantum approach to consciousness, connecting brain processes (microtubule quantum computations inside neurons) to fluctuations in fundamental spacetime geometry, the fine-scale structure of the universe. Recent evidence for significant quantum coherence in warm biological systems, scale-free dynamics and end-of-life brain activity support the notion of a quantum basis for consciousness which could conceivably exist independent of biology in various scalar planes in spacetime geometry.

...

Quantum theory tells us that physical processes occur in discrete, quantized steps, or levels. The laws that govern the quantum differ strangely from the predictable reality of our everyday "classical" world. At small scales, and sometimes at large scales, the bizarre laws of quantum mechanics reign. For example, atoms and subatomic quantum particles can exist in two or more states or places simultaneously, more like waves than particles, and existing as multiple coexisting possibilities known as quantum superposition, governed by a quantum wave function. Another quantum property is "nonlocal entanglement," in which components of a spatially separated system remain unified and connected (Penrose 1989). 

Physics circumvents the strangeness of quantum mechanics by strictly dividing the macro/classical and micro/quantum, keeping the two worlds apart. However, consciousness somehow bridges the macro/classical and micro/quantum domains, equivalent to the subject - object split. Consciousness exists precisely on the edge between quantum and classical.

...

Thus altered states of consciousness may involve transcendence to deeper, more intense levels of experience, deeper levels of reality, e.g., consistent with Vedic astral planes or lokas, and enlightenment reached by meditation and spiritual practices. Such enhanced, altered states need not involve alternative dimensions or universes, but rather deeper, more fine scale geometry in nonlocal holographic-like levels or scales in this one universe.  

 

 

While the above is certainly interesting and suggestive, it leaves out the Lime Jello and brainwaves question (yes its real, do a search), which torpedoed arguments for consciousness based on brain wave activity starting in Seventies.  Something more is needed and i would suggest that the idea of the physical body should be viewed as a "section" of a hyper dimensional body that results from a symmetry break from four dimensional SpaceTime, a unifies entity, to three/one dimensional Space/Time.  Combining these two complementary ideas helps to "flesh" out a model of "soul" in a useful way.  By the way the idea of a fourth dimension has a longer history than you might think as I pointed out here:

 

Quote

 

I much prefer Henry More's solution, which is to toss out the Cartesian Baby, a miscarriage anyway, with the bathwater:

 

Quote

More was a rationalist theologian. He attempted to use the details of 17th-century mechanical philosophy—as developed by René Descartes—to establish the existence of immaterial substance.

More (1712) rejected Cartesian dualism on the following grounds: "It would be easier for me to attribute matter and extension to the soul, than to attribute to an immaterial thing the capacity to move and be moved by the body.' His difficulties with Cartesian Dualism arose, not from an inability to understand how material and immaterial substances could interact, but from an unwillingness to accept any unextended entity as any kind of real entity. More continues "...it is plain that if a thing be at all it must be extended." So for More 'spirit' too must be extended. This led him to the idea of a 'fourth dimension" in which the spirit is extended (to which he gave the curious name of "essential spissitude") and to an original solution to the mind-body problem. (Wikipedia article on Henry More, Emphasis mine, ZYD)

 

Though my thinking in terms of higher dimensionality arose more in the context of modeling "The One" as the "The Unity of a Whole", part of the problem set by Plato's Parmenides.

 

 

I had closed the topic from which the above quote has been taken, so it cannot be linked directly, but must be reached by the link in "I pointed out here:" above.  Henry More was one of a group of Seventeenth Century Philosopher/Theologians  known as the Cambridge Platonist school.  Reading about them in the early Eighties was actually very useful to me in understanding the wider influence of Platonism.

 

ZYD

[Nintendao]

On 5/24/2021 at 1:36 PM, Zhongyongdaoist said:

While the above is certainly interesting and suggestive, it leaves out the Lime Jello and brainwaves question (yes its real, do a search), which torpedoed arguments for consciousness based on brain wave activity starting in Seventies.  Something more is needed and i would suggest that the idea of the physical body should be viewed as a "section" of a hyper dimensional body that results from a symmetry break from four dimensional SpaceTime, a unifies entity, to three/one dimensional Space/Time.  Combining these two complementary ideas helps to "flesh" out a model of "soul" in a useful way.  By the way the idea of a fourth dimension has a longer history than you might think as I pointed out here:

Orch OR seems compatible with the Lime Jello effect, as it attributes consciousness to more fine-level processes than the neurons-as-transistors paradigm. While a bowl of jello may exhibit similar electrochemical capacity to a brain, it lacks the complex structures needed to conduct quantum coherence. There's something about the molecular geometry of microtubules that could play a role in guiding probabilistic potentialities into finite reality states. Hence the "Orchestrated Objective Reduction," or Orch OR. This even allows for the idea of brain as merely an interface between the sensory realm and a continuum of consciousness-like events woven into all of spacetime.

 

Neat stuff about the Henry More!

[Lairg]

Is parallel processing a human invention?  

 

Do humans exist on a parallel timelines to accelerate learning?    Using dreams for learning transfer?

 

Would that indicate non-locality of consciousness?

 

One of the signs of such dreams is meeting people that you know well but in the dream they look quite differently.

 

In my observation of a dementia friend, his mind energy hardly connects at all to his brain.  He recognizes his wife but keeps looking for his younger wife as well.  His physical wife is also his wife on another timeline where she and he are much younger - at least at the interface of the two timelines.

[silent thunder]

The timeline distortion can be quite strong and compelling/overriding.

It was for my Mum and I.  In my Mother's waning years, I had to refrain from contacting her and could especially not go visit in person.

 

I look so much like my Dad that in her Dementia, she could not distinguish me as her Son, and her relationship with my Father was not a pleasant one, so if I went to visit, she would shut down.

 

If I sent her pictures, she would throw them away, unsure why she'd be receiving pictures of her ex husband alongside her grandchild.

 

She seemed to perpetually live in a blend of the past overlayed along the present.

 

One unexpected benefit of the extreme memory loss is, she seemed to have let go of many of the more challenging aspects of her childhood that had traumatized her.  Ignorance can be blissful, it seems.

 

It's an insidious disease that took from me, the last four-ish years of a relationship with my Mom.