Female enlightened master Rajini Menon on attaining enlightenment by virtuous conduct

[Ajay0]

Hello all,

 

Here is an insightful article on female enlightened master Rajini Menon attaining enlightenment just through adhering to virtuous conduct and behavior.

 

https://www.lifepositive.com/a-light-unto-herself/
 

Quote

Would you like to share a little about your journey?

There was no journey as such. I had no idea that there was anything like self-realisation. There was just the life. And what was special about the life was that there was righteous living right through, which is definitely not easy. One day I found myself at the point that people call self-realisation.

What do you mean by righteous living?

Righteous living means listening to your inner voice. Your conscience. We can always hear the inner voice, even as a small child.

Would you like to give me some examples of righteous living?

It goes right back to my childhood since I was in the third standard. After I was put to bed, I would review my whole day. I would hold my ears if I did something wrong, and appreciate myself if I did something right. I would correct myself. Ok, that girl threw my eraser away. But why did I take her eraser and throw it away? What she did was wrong, but I should have done what was right from my point of view. Then perhaps next time, I would not throw her eraser, but I would think ill of her. So I would tell myself, it is good that you did not throw her eraser, but you did not think right.

Amazing to be so aware at this young age. Is it that your parents gave you strong values?

Yes, they have taught me many good values. But they also would ask me at times, where did you get all this from? Once I, my brother, sister and parents had all gone to a temple. After coming back, my father took me on his lap and asked, “What did you pray to God?” I said, “Give me good thoughts and give the strength to act on them.” He was amazed. I was in the 6th standard then. He asked, “Who taught you all this?”

What are some of the circumstances that arose out of righteous living?

By the time I was leaving school, righteous living had become spontaneous in me. My father had a transferable job and I was in Delhi for my 11th standard. I had joined my new school when I contracted dengue and had to take leave for one week. On the command of their leader, none of the girls would give me their notes when I rejoined. These things would not affect me at all. Soon after, this leader also fell ill with dengue. I took my notes to her and told her, “In case, you don’t understand, you can ask me, and if you don’t want my notes, then you can take from someone else.” It was my luck that she took it. And she then became my best friend, even in college.

At work, there was one person whose life was difficult and therefore he lost his temper easily. He used to shout and scream at me, I would not say anything. After my transformation, one day, I went to this person and told him, “Whatever you speak or do, I simply would never do anything against you. In fact I will pray for you and your family too. If I retort to you, the consequence of some of your actions will be nullified to some extent, but as I am not doing that, the impact will be fully on you. I also pray that nothing bad should happen to you because nature’s course will take its toll.” After some six months, I suddenly noticed that this person had totally changed towards me. Not fully towards others but towards me. It is now three or four years since then, but the change still remains.

If you do what is right, irrespective of what the other does, it will slow down the mind. If you are working in an office and one or two are doing something against you, you will always be tense. Your sleep is destroyed. But if you have the policy that you will be thinking, speaking and doing only what is in accordance with your inner voice, irrespective of what others do or not, then how does it matter what the other does? You sleep well. And thoughts become less.

How did your transformation happen?

That particular evening I was so disturbed that I went into my room, closed my eyes and sat there. That was when everything dropped from me. The only thought that came to me was that I was the soul and my attention went to the heart region spontaneously. In a fraction of a second or so, I felt I was floating – a very light feeling. And bliss. And an unending expanse! It went on like this for hours but the change was instant. There were no questions. A no-question mind is so peaceful. As if everything was known to me. As though I was seeing everything through a crystal clear glass.

After this moment of transformation, everything changed. I would feel like a royal king moving around – as if everything was under my control. There were no changes outwardly, my circumstances were the same, but there was a total sea change inwardly. I would walk on the road with my no-mind; I would work in the kitchen with my no-mind. No thoughts whatsoever were coming. In the office, only where it was needed for me to think, such as when processing a file, would I think. Moreover, I suffered from many physical problems too for maybe a couple of years before, but all of them disappeared overnight never to return.

In no-mind, the range you can see is wide. I walk on the road, and see absolutely everything; at the same time, not looking at anything. Earlier, when I walked on the road, I would look at every shop window, attracted to so many things. With no-mind, nothing attracts me. And I have so much energy. I am never tired. All night I take a thin bed sheet, spread on the floor with a thin pillow and lie down in shavasan, close my eyes and lie there totally aware with absolutely no thoughts. I can hear even a pin. And it is more energising than even deep sleep. Because, there is no mental activity to drain away the energy.

When the body is relaxed physically, I can lie down all night totally aware without either the body or the mind moving even a bit. Otherwise, sleep comes for some time depending on how tired the body is.

Could you throw more light on your inner transformation?

The transformation, though overnight, was never an overnight process. In Chemistry classes we do the acid-base titration experiments. The final drop from the pipette changes the colour of the solution in the beaker. But were not the earlier drops significant? Similarly, righteous living all through life purified me and enabled the overnight transformation.

In 2000, my life crashed. After that I was in intense pain, which even led to depression. Of course, no one could make out. I was always well-dressed and cheerful. But my inner story was not like that. That agony continued till the time the change happened in 2008. The one thought when I came out of it was, I should share this with everyone. Everyone is in grief. It is such a simple thing. You just stop your thoughts.

So difficult …

I did not know that. When this happened, I just found that I was able to stop my thoughts as and when I wished. When people began to ask me how to do it, then only I realized it was difficult for others.

Just a couple of months before the transformation, in order to cope with my intolerable situation, I used to throw off Rajini. I would say, “I ask Rajini to turn about and stand there” and gave a kick. Then I let the inner Divine function instead. I correlate the Divine with many things like the river or a tree. Whoever comes to it, the river gives water, the tree gives shade, without discriminating. Similarly, the deity in a temple has its hands in the abhaya mudra. If a dacoit came and stood in front of the deity, the deity would not put its hands behind him. The Divine can do anything. It is only Rajini who cannot. So why have her here? Earlier, Rajini would do everything the inner conscience asked her to do; but when Rajini was unable to do this, as the situations were getting tougher and tougher for her, I threw her off and let the Divine take over.

What do you plan to do now?

I feel the only worthwhile thing for me to do is to guide sincere seekers. That gives me the greatest satisfaction. However, there are few sincere seekers. Janaka said after getting enlightened by Ashtavakra. “Why are there not more Ashtavakras?” Ashtavakra said, “The shortage is not of Ashtavakras but of Janakas.” In all these years, I have understood that. I used to think that even if a mad elephant was rushing towards me, I would answer the questions of a spiritual aspirant. But there are few true seekers.

Are you still in a state of no-mind?

Yes, once a permanent no-mind state is attained it does not vanish. Rather, when the mind vanishes, no-mind happens (laughs). In fact, the mind vanishes permanently and the ‘no-mind state’ does not leave you even while you are involved in activities.

 

 

 

If you do right, irrespective of what the other does, it will slow down the mind. - Rajini Menon

 

 

Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost.~ Buddha AN 10.1


Swami Satchidananda also states in this regard....

“When even one virtue becomes our nature, the mind becomes clean and tranquil. Then there is no need to practice meditation; we will automatically be meditating always.” - Swami Satchidananda


I would say this showcases the importance of virtues and virtuous conduct as taught in the world religions and secular humanism, and shows that they are not limited to mere conditioning or are abstract contrivances as nihilism and existentialism believes them to be.

Sound adherence to morals and ethical conduct can even enable an agnostic or non-theist to attain enlightenment, without religions or spiritual masters, as is the case with Rajini Menon.

 

 

[manitou]

What a nice article, Ajay0.  That does seem to be the most direct path, adherence to morals and ethical conduct.  If this can be practiced early enough in life, I think this would be the very best way.  And then there would be no fixed dogma to extricate one's self from.

 

Some of us come from exactly the opposite direction and still find ourselves here.  I've come to the conclusion that any path or any no-path is useable if followed to its conclusion.  My high moral path was debilitating alcoholism, about as low as i could possibly get.  But through the recovery process of digging through my inner workings, I find myself in this strange and wonderful place.

 

It came subtly into my psyche that keeping the thoughts 'high' produces remarkable differences in life.  The Nazarene said the same, about keeping the eyes high up on the hill.  There came a time in my recovery where I stopped being so judgmental, so critical, so cynical.  This seemed to happen out of a true heart desire to be more gentle, more calm, more loving.  The ability to choose low or high thoughts is a choice in the beginning, but becomes second nature in a very short time.  And I am in full agreement that meditation becomes unnecessary.  The mind is in meditation more than it is not.

 

We manifest our lives from the inside to the outside.  If we hold ugly thoughts, we'll have an ugly life.  When you've got some years on you and look back over the 'path', it's truly incredible to see how everything fell into place anyway despite my worst thinking at the beginning.

 

The universe is a friendly place.  Trusting that, there is nothing to fear.  Knowing who we really Are becomes an exercise in how to live with the ramifications after the realization.  That's a whole different thing...

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by manitou

[Vajra Fist]

I've practiced a system that stressed morality as a path. It involved 'cultivating' the heart (xinxing) toward the principles of truthfulness, compassion and tolerance. 

 

After 10 years, looking back now, I realised it had the opposite effect. The more I failed to live up to a perfect standard of conduct, the more I beat myself up about it, resulting in a state of near constant self-loathing. 

 

I always believed I was able to be selfless in putting others above myself, but now I realise it was merely just an extension of a low self-esteem and an almost pathological self deprecation. 

 

When you strive to achieve some standard of perfect moral conduct, you are living in a state of negation - you're moving away from your own natural state toward an unnatural, imposed state.

 

You create mental disorders by denying yourself things that are deemed impure, whether its sex or other vices. The urges you're trying to uproot and discard are fed by your efforts to negate them. Your cravings become exaggerated, monstrous, and you're in a constant state of distress as you're desperately trying to suppress them. 

 

It goes in the opposite direction to what I now believe to be the path. That is - radical acceptance and non-striving. When you begin to accept yourself, just as you are in whatever state you're in at the present moment, you accept the world. The practice of accepting everything that passes through your mind and of everything that passes you by in life, naturally creates a peaceful and calm mind.

 

This is my way of saying that ethical conduct, in my view, is a natural byproduct of a healthy mental state. It's not something that can be sought after or attained. 

[manitou]

22 hours ago, Vajra Fist said:

When you begin to accept yourself, just as you are in whatever state you're in at the present moment, you accept the world. The practice of accepting everything that passes through your mind and of everything that passes you by in life, naturally creates a peaceful and calm mind.

 

 

I couldn't agree more with this.  Imposing rigid standards on ourselves is really counter-productive.  Acceptance seems to be the key.  And acceptance becomes easier when our egos lighten up, when we don't believe that we know 'the way it should be' - either for ourselves or for those around us.

 

The wonderful thing is that it happens naturally - just as you say....that ethical conduct is a natural byproduct of a healthy mental state.  I think it's pretty phenomenal how differently life manifests when the thoughts remain high.  And these are the things we can control.  We can tell when we're thinking judgmentally, critically, cynically.  At first, it's a challenge to acknowledge that we engage in that type of thinking at all.  After all, we've probably done it our whole life.  Our parents, siblings, and friends think judgmentally.  It seems only natural.

 

Then, if we're lucky, there comes the day that we don't worry about ethics at all.  Things like sex, for example - which has been a challenge for me because of my 'puritan' upbringing (against which I rebelled and forked up the first part of my adult life) - now there is no judgment on sex at all.  If we come to the realization of who we really are there is no discrepancy.  It (or whatever we want to call It) has manifested us so that it could participate in its own creation through our senses.  I'm pretty sure that would include sex too.

 

VF, when you speak of the self-deprecation being confused with humility, I have had to work through this gene too.  If we're in a perfectly balanced place and realize who we Are, false humility is only the other side of too much ego.  It's not until we realize that we are not separate from others, that we can stop feeling good or bad about our personal identities.  The Wholeness will take over, and there is no distinction between president or peon.

 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by manitou

[Ajay0]

On 3/12/2021 at 11:31 PM, manitou said:

What a nice article, Ajay0.  That does seem to be the most direct path, adherence to morals and ethical conduct.  If this can be practiced early enough in life, I think this would be the very best way.  And then there would be no fixed dogma to extricate one's self from.

 

 

 I thank you deeply for your kind and sweet words, Manitou.

 

I hope this article has been of utility to you and will be  a source of strength and peace for you.

 

As a teenager and youth, I had pondered on the nihilist/existentialist viewpoint on whether all values and virtues are just  abstractions and whether there is any meaning to life after all.  There was a lot of despair and anguish in  this regard as I felt that life was perhaps meaningless.

 

Thankfully, eastern philosophy was able to clarify the issue in this regard, that adherence to virtues and values correlate to higher states of consciousness leading to blissful enlightenment . Rajini Menon embodied this philosophy through her enlightenment, and this insight  gave great relief to me.

 

I wish I had come across this insight as a teenager-youth, but it is better late than never. I am aware that many others may be suffering from such intellectual or philosophical issues, and hopefully these teachings can put such confusions and issues to rest.

 

May all beings be free from suffering.

 

Metta and Namaste.

 

 

[manitou]

If we'd come to the realization that we're all one and the same entity when we were teenie boppers would have created a monster.  Too many hot egos at that age.  It only seems to happen when you're old and decrepit so you can't actually do too much damage.

[Ajay0]

 

 

    Wholesome virtuous behavior progressively leads to the foremost. - Buddha AN 10.1

 

    Western philosophy and psychology, which is of more recent origin, has not yet touched upon the phenomenon of enlightenment or Buddhahood , and this is why nihilism and other lopsided philosophies like existentialism were prominent in the west leading to an erroneous thought process and corresponding actions, considering all moral values to be abstractly contrived.

 

The famous Austrian psychiatrist, philosopher and holocaust survivor Viktor Frankl stated thus on the influence of the nihilist and materialistic philosophies that influenced the thought process of the architects of the second world war...

 

    “If we present a man with a concept of man which is not true, we may well corrupt him. When we present man as an automaton of reflexes, as a mind-machine, as a bundle of instincts, as a pawn of drives and reactions, as a mere product of instinct, heredity and environment, we feed the nihilism to which modern man is, in any case, prone.    I became acquainted with the last stage of that corruption in my second concentration camp, Auschwitz.

 

    The gas chambers of Auschwitz were the ultimate consequence of the theory that man is nothing but the product of heredity and environment; or as the Nazi liked to say, ‘of Blood and Soil.’ I am absolutely convinced that the gas chambers of Auschwitz, Treblinka, and Maidanek were ultimately prepared not in some Ministry or other in Berlin, but rather at the desks and lecture halls of nihilistic scientists and philosophers.” -  Viktor Frankl

 

 

    In eastern philosophy on the other hand, moral values and virtues are considered to be valuable in expansion of consciousness (and destruction of karma) alongside meditation, awareness or total love and instrumental in attainment of enlightenment or Buddhahood, as shown by the example of the female enlightened master Rajini Menon.

 

           Western philosophy and psychology will be all the more richer through study of eastern philosophy and this can help negate much of the issues caused by wrong philosophical interpretations as stated by Viktor Frankl, that can potentially lead to conflicts and vice.

 

For example buddhist mindfulness and vipassana are now acknowledged by psychiatrists in the west of having therapeutic applications and complementing therapy.

https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/mindfulness

 

https://uk.dhamma.org/more/prison-courses/

 

Similarly Indian mathematics and numeral system, which originated in the  philosophical conceptions of Sankyha philosophy by sage Kapila and Shunyata  philosophy of Buddha, came to the west through the Arabs, replaced the cumbersome roman numerals and revolutionized modern science, technology and accounting to what it is at present.

 

 Hence considering the rich and profitable interaction of the past, western philosophers should not hesitate to investigate and study eastern philosophy to enrich their understanding and wisdom and consequently avoid grave errors in decision-making.

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Ajay0

[old3bob]

On the other hand Jesus also warned: "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves",  with there being with many such examples along this line in various spiritual teachings. 

 

So my take is that the sheep and dove must also be as strong (and practiced) as matured  lions and eagles otherwise they will be trampled by forces taking advantage of what could be called idealistic thinking practiced out of context and content or as Jesus also said, “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces” (Matthew 7:6)Thus imo "turning the other cheek" is an act of the greatest warrior who can also defend themselves from any kind of brutal or devious  attack at any level per their power of will and wisdom which is not of wishful thinking or action.  

 

Many spirits of goodness and kindness or "heaven" are also inviolable and fierce guardians that can not be tread upon! 

Edited June 11, 2021 by old3bob

[Ajay0]

On 6/11/2021 at 5:09 PM, old3bob said:

On the other hand Jesus also warned: "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves",  with there being with many such examples along this line in various spiritual teachings. 

 

So my take is that the sheep and dove must also be as strong (and practiced) as matured  lions and eagles otherwise they will be trampled by forces taking advantage of what could be called idealistic thinking practiced out of context and content or as Jesus also said, “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces” (Matthew 7:6)Thus imo "turning the other cheek" is an act of the greatest warrior who can also defend themselves from any kind of brutal or devious  attack at any level per their power of will and wisdom which is not of wishful thinking or action.  

 

Many spirits of goodness and kindness or "heaven" are also inviolable and fierce guardians that can not be tread upon! 

 

 I deeply respect your sentiments as a christian but I think you have misunderstood the thread's theme. It is mainly about virtuous conduct and behavior being spiritually meritorious and capable of attaining enlightenment or Buddhahood on its own, and not being just mere abstract contrivances as nihilism and existentialism considers them to be.

 

  The nihilist thought process is considered to have influenced ideologies like nazism, fascism (which brought about the second world war and holocausts) and communism as well, and given rise to unchecked scientific materialism and reductionism at present which reduces the human being to a mere material phenomenon among others to be described, studied and even utilized by vested interests as a commodity to be milked unscrupulously.

 

Even in democratic governments this foolish and counterproductive line of reasoning runs deep and science is clandestinely utilized as a tool to create an efficient and obedient citizen out of a human being without any consideration for his spiritual needs or sensitivity, and to be a mere cog in the machinery or an another brick in the wall.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by Ajay0

[old3bob]

9 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

 

 I deeply respect your sentiments as a christian but I think you have misunderstood the thread's theme. It is mainly about virtuous conduct and behavior being spiritually meritorious and capable of attaining enlightenment or Buddhahood on its own, and not being just mere abstract contrivances as nihilism and existentialism considers them to be.

 

  The nihilist thought process is considered to have influenced ideologies like nazism, fascism (which brought about the second world war and holocausts) and communism as well, and given rise to unchecked scientific materialism and reductionism at present which reduces the human being to a mere material phenomenon among others to be described, studied and even utilized by vested interests as a commodity to be milked unscrupulously.

 

Even in democratic governments this foolish and counterproductive line of reasoning runs deep and science is clandestinely utilized as a tool to create an efficient and obedient citizen out of a human being without any consideration for his spiritual needs or sensitivity, and to be a mere cog in the machinery or an another brick in the wall.

 

 

 

umm, I quoted some sayings of Jesus which I feel are universal and at least partially apply to or have some relation the the OP.*

(but I'm not a "Christian" per say although I believe in many of its sayings that are of universal import thus not limited to fundamentalist interpretation, which btw there are about 10,000 sects of which define Christianity with minor to very drastic differences!  Anyway I relate more  to the core meanings given in the Upanishads and the TTC. along with several other forms of spiritual teachings to a lesser degree)

 

So back to the OP.  The following paragraph is what I was trying to comment on: 

 

"If you do what is right, irrespective of what the other does, it will slow down the mind. If you are working in an office and one or two are doing something against you, you will always be tense. Your sleep is destroyed. But if you have the policy that you will be thinking, speaking and doing only what is in accordance with your inner voice, irrespective of what others do or not, then how does it matter what the other does? You sleep well. And thoughts become less." 

 

This too in a way can fall under the saying of, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" and I feel is warned about by the  sayings of Jesus which I brought up... for their can be several and also conflicting inner voices in "students" saying this or that is right and that is wrong depending on lots of "inner" and also outer factors, so to speak.    

 

Also:  I agree about the problems you mentioned that arise with nihilism and or just pure materialism.

Edited June 14, 2021 by old3bob

[forestofclarity]

6 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

virtuous conduct and behavior being spiritually meritorious and capable of attaining enlightenment or Buddhahood on its own,

 

Most Buddhist teachers teach that virtuous conduct is not sufficient. The mother of all buddhas is prajna or wisdom. 

[Ajay0]

On 6/14/2021 at 4:50 PM, old3bob said:

 

umm, I quoted some sayings of Jesus which I feel are universal and at least partially apply to or have some relation the the OP.*

(but I'm not a "Christian" per say although I believe in many of its sayings that are of universal import thus not limited to fundamentalist interpretation, which btw there are about 10,000 sects of which define Christianity with minor to very drastic differences! 

 

 

 Yeah, I like Jesus's teachings as well and find them to be a useful mine of wisdom shedding light on dark areas of ignorance, and have quoted them in some of my posts.

 

The Golden Rule taught by Jesus is also a good framework to determine virtuous conduct in almost all  situations and circumstances.

 

 Imho, Christianity as an institution for morality and virtuous conduct was undermined by some of its leaders who were not able to separate religion from the state administration and politics leading to conflicts and wars which was against the core essence of Christ's teachings.This was true of most other religions as well.

 

 There was a failure of religious leadership in general in ensuring correct regulation of religious teachings for application so that it would have been a support to the dynamic nature of spiritual, social and material development rather than being an impediment to it. A glaring example of this at present is the Taliban and Isis.

 

I would say this can perhaps be traced to the vices of love of power, egoism and lack of critical thinking in erroneously emphasizing the letter of the law at the expense of the spirit.

 

Secular humanism is also a great institution for determining moral behavior and virtuous conduct as well, and there is an emphasis on the golden rule in it as well.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule

 

Quote

Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you. [is] (…) the single greatest, simplest, and most important moral axiom humanity has ever invented, one which reappears in the writings of almost every culture and religion throughout history, the one we know as the Golden Rule. Moral directives do not need to be complex or obscure to be worthwhile, and in fact, it is precisely this rule's simplicity which makes it great. It is easy to come up with, easy to understand, and easy to apply, and these three things are the hallmarks of a strong and healthy moral system.

 

The idea behind it is readily graspable: before performing an action which might harm another person, try to imagine yourself in their position, and consider whether you would want to be the recipient of that action. If you would not want to be in such a position, the other person probably would not either, and so you should not do it. It is the basic and fundamental human trait of empathy, the ability to vicariously experience how another is feeling, that makes this possible, and it is the principle of empathy by which we should live our lives.

— Adam Lee, Ebon Musings, "A decalogue for the modern world"

 

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Ajay0

[manitou]

On 6/14/2021 at 12:48 AM, Ajay0 said:

It is mainly about virtuous conduct and behavior being spiritually meritorious and capable of attaining enlightenment or Buddhahood on its own, and not being just mere abstract contrivances as nihilism and existentialism considers them to be

 

 

Interesting thought.  In other words, is virtuous conduct alone all that's needed for enlightenment?

 

This is only my take on it.  I barely made it out of high school, so FWIW:

 

 

If meritorious conduct is as a result of having a life well lived, and is a natural outflow of the entity's conditioning, then I believe that by the time that fine individual gets to the place of Full Realization, his conduct and his nature will have merged.  So in a case like this, I think the answer would be yes.

 

But if someone starts with a rotten core and forces meritorious conduct for the purpose of enlightenment, no.  The ego of this entity will be too thick to penetrate, or it will fall in on itself of its own weight.

 

The path to the Realization is inward.  The enlightened one becomes as transparent as glass because they have dealt to the best of their ability with their inner dynamics that have caused unenlightened behavior.  Through a glass darkly.

 

It is not until they know who they really are that enlightenment dawns.

 

Once that has happened, it then becomes a question of dealing with the ramifications from day to day the rest of your life.  You know that everyone you see is really you.  You will truly understand that.

[old3bob]

I'd say no in the sense that meritorious conduct (following dharma from the outside-in) is more like preparation in that if  it can be followed so to speak (to a threshold)  then it could also be lost...Thus dharma's come from or spring from the true Self, a Self that can never loose or gain merit via following dharma's since by its' power and truth dharma springs from It  inside-out.  (and for any "absolute" fans there is the attainment of no inside or outside ;-)

 

Further I'd say that the "Holy Spirit" or "Grace" (in several sects of Hinduism known as the Grace of Satguru) is needed to unlock the mind being that the mind can not unlock itself no matter the virtues of mind stuff that it may or may not have attained.  Incredible it is to some human beings that the Spirit can work with us whether fool or saint, or of any degree in between!   

Om Tat Sat

Edited June 20, 2021 by old3bob
touch up

[manitou]

On 3/12/2021 at 2:48 AM, Ajay0 said:

In no-mind, the range you can see is wide. I walk on the road, and see absolutely everything; at the same time, not looking at anything. Earlier, when I walked on the road, I would look at every shop window, attracted to so many things. With no-mind, nothing attracts me. And I have so much energy. I am never tired. All night I take a thin bed sheet, spread on the floor with a thin pillow and lie down in shavasan, close my eyes and lie there totally aware with absolutely no thoughts. I can hear even a pin. And it is more energising than even deep sleep. Because, there is no mental activity to drain away the energy.

 

 

I'd like to add to this, that in her state of no-mind, there is a feeling that all entities are one.  It can be felt.  You feel your heart open to every person you pass on the street, you realize that they are you.  You realize what Love your Brother as Yourself really means.  You realize that to give a gift to someone is a gift to yourself.  It doesn't matter who has the money, it's only stuck energy.  To give to a homeless person is to give to yourself.  As I see it, this is the sense of Oneness that becomes available to us in no-thought.

[doc benway]

35 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

I'd like to add to this, that in her state of no-mind, there is a feeling that all entities are one.  It can be felt.  You feel your heart open to every person you pass on the street, you realize that they are you.  You realize what Love your Brother as Yourself really means.  You realize that to give a gift to someone is a gift to yourself.  It doesn't matter who has the money, it's only stuck energy.  To give to a homeless person is to give to yourself.  As I see it, this is the sense of Oneness that becomes available to us in no-thought.

 

It is such a blessing to live from this space.

It's easy to talk about, much rarer to experience, even rarer yet to be the ground and flow of our lives.

[manitou]

On 7/1/2021 at 10:37 AM, steve said:

 

It is such a blessing to live from this space.

It's easy to talk about, much rarer to experience, even rarer yet to be the ground and flow of our lives.

 

It is a space that is rare at first but gradually becomes more and more of your day.  It's a dawning awareness that continues blossoming.  People will come in and out of your life because you answer truthfully when asked.  People pleasing is behind you.  I look at these phenomena as ramifications of enlightenment.  Enlightenment is the awareness of who we really are.  Living with those ramifications and acting from that place is the path after that.  It becomes more natural all the time.  But in some ways it's like having to learn all over again.  When we become able to transcend our ego, it gets easy.

 

I did this very thing a couple days ago.  I was sitting on a bench in a restaurant in Colorado,  waiting for a table, next to a lady also waiting.  I remarked on hearing that the food was good here.  She responded, and we got onto the subject of politics, for some reason.  She started talking about Trump, and when she did that, I thought I'd try an experiment.  Transcend all ego and just listen to her.

 

She went on with the usual stuff, and I encouraged her to keep talking.  She kept talking so much, in fact, that she started getting into the Qanon stuff about the child molesting ring and eating babies.  I couldn't believe it - I was actually talking to a Qanon person!

 

Something made her suddenly stop.  She asked me 'Are you a Democrat?'  I smiled and said yes.  She apologized for any offense she may have caused me.  I told her that she hadn't at all, that I was wanting to hear her opinion about these things.  She started to run off quickly, jumped up from the bench.  I grabbed her hand and said 'We HAVE to talk.  We're going to lose our country if we don't start listening to each other'.  She ran off.

 

I don't know if that does any good or not, but I sensed that she was happy to be able to explode the hateful stuff about the child eating dems, and to have someone listening to her without interruption (after transcension of ego, of course!)  Maybe that's a big step, just to listen to someone who thinks totally opposite.  Maybe that's all they really want.  I'm starting to see it as people who have never had much power, perceiving now that they are aligned with a very powerful person.  Like they've joined the Power Club.

 

It actually felt pretty good to do that.

 

 

[Ajay0]

Here is an insightful conversation between the female enlightened sage Anandamayi Ma and a disciple...


Question: Suppose an atheist lives an ethical and righteous life. Is he on a lower level than a faithful devotee?

Ma Anandamayi : 'An ethical life purifies the mind. Even though one may have no faith in God, if one believes in some Superior Power or pursues a high ideal, this also will serve one's purpose. By living an ethical life, one progresses towards the realization of the Divine. ' 

 

( Excerpt from the book 'That Compassionate Touch of Ma Anandamayee'  by Narayan Chaudhari )


Through this statement, Ma Anandamayi too, like Rajini Menon, states that an ethical and virtuous life, is a spiritual exercise in itself and is potent enough to bring about enlightenment on its own.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Ajay0

[freeform]

5 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

Through this statement, Ma Anandamayi too, like Rajini Menon, states that an ethical and virtuous life, is a spiritual exercise in itself and is potent enough to bring about enlightenment on its own.

That’s not quite what she says. 
 

5 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

By living an ethical life, one progresses towards the realization of the Divine.

‘Progress towards’ and bringing about enlightenment are two very different things.

 

Living a moral life is recommended to most householders. It does indeed bring one closer to the divine - bit by bit over many lifetimes. It’s this merit that will eventually draw one to a lifetime where the conditions are perfect to begin actual spiritual cultivation… and the wholesome karma of previous lives will fruit and support ones cultivation.

 

Edit:

 

Immoral and unvirtuous behaviour will close off the possibility of enlightenment. So it’s certainly one of the necessary causes.

Edited February 19, 2022 by freeform

[manitou]

On 2/19/2022 at 1:33 AM, Ajay0 said:

Here is an insightful conversation between the female enlightened sage Anandamayi Ma and a disciple...


Question: Suppose an atheist lives an ethical and righteous life. Is he on a lower level than a faithful devotee?

Ma Anandamayi : 'An ethical life purifies the mind. Even though one may have no faith in God, if one believes in some Superior Power or pursues a high ideal, this also will serve one's purpose. By living an ethical life, one progresses towards the realization of the Divine. ' 

 

( Excerpt from the book 'That Compassionate Touch of Ma Anandamayee'  by Narayan Chaudhari )


Through this statement, Ma Anandamayi too, like Rajini Menon, states that an ethical and virtuous life, is a spiritual exercise in itself and is potent enough to bring about enlightenment on its own.

 

 

 

I would almost say that an atheist is closer to enlightenment than they think.  No baloney to transcend.

[dwai]

On 2/19/2022 at 3:33 AM, Ajay0 said:

Here is an insightful conversation between the female enlightened sage Anandamayi Ma and a disciple...


Question: Suppose an atheist lives an ethical and righteous life. Is he on a lower level than a faithful devotee?

Ma Anandamayi : 'An ethical life purifies the mind. Even though one may have no faith in God, if one believes in some Superior Power or pursues a high ideal, this also will serve one's purpose. By living an ethical life, one progresses towards the realization of the Divine. ' 

 

( Excerpt from the book 'That Compassionate Touch of Ma Anandamayee'  by Narayan Chaudhari )


Through this statement, Ma Anandamayi too, like Rajini Menon, states that an ethical and virtuous life, is a spiritual exercise in itself and is potent enough to bring about enlightenment on its own.

An Ethical/moral life is necessary for the purification of the mind (or preventing sullying of the mind). But for enlightenment, an adequate effort is needed to realize one's True Nature.

 

Even if one attains nirvikalpa samadhi, it will not necessarily lead to full realization, because realization occurs in the mind, and until the purified mind is not actively directed towards its source,  enlightenment is not complete. For that, the right teaching is required. That doesn't even need to come from a live teacher  (though it is best to have one) -- just reading/listening to the teachings is sufficient. The foundational requirement is a purified mind, the primary condition is the proper focus of the purified mind towards its source. 

 

How does one know if the mind is purified enough -- if the mind can be focused unwaveringly on a single thought (say on a deity), it is purified. Better still if the mind can be made still (chitta vritti nirodha) without a thought. But then, the teaching (jnana) needs to be provided, which will help guide the mind to its source. The purer the mind is, the lower the level of effort required for realization. 

[doc benway]

5 hours ago, manitou said:

 

 

 

I would almost say that an atheist is closer to enlightenment than they think.  No baloney to transcend.

 

On reflection, it seems to me that most folks believe something. If they are atheist, they are very likely to be materialist,  rationalist,  artist, republican, democrat, socialist, scientist… something. It is the rare mystic! that has overcome identification. We find great support in identifying and defining ourselves, be it familial role, profession, avocation… all are limiting.

The theist may have a taste for the divine essence of things and this might be instrumental for awakening in some of us. A profound support like that can help us to let go fully and can be a blessing when the process gets dark and nihilism looms.

 

Hard to know what factors will open us up. One thing is likely, they’re related in some way to whatever is preventing us from opening and connecting.

[stirling]

1 hour ago, steve said:

 

On reflection, it seems to me that most folks believe something. If they are atheist, they are very likely to be materialist,  rationalist,  artist, republican, democrat, socialist, scientist… something. It is the rare mystic! that has overcome identification. We find great support in identifying and defining ourselves, be it familial role, profession, avocation… all are limiting.

The theist may have a taste for the divine essence of things and this might be instrumental for awakening in some of us. A profound support like that can help us to let go fully and can be a blessing when the process gets dark and nihilism looms.

 

Agreed. Ideally this "virtuous person" is not building a new identity out of it and not feeling prideful about their kindnesses or attached to being recognized for their virtuousness. For this path to work there would still need to be work on reducing self-cherishing. 

 

I also agree with Dwai here - at some point there needs to be the clarity of a quiet mind to eventually see how "self" and the 10,000 things are an illusion created by mind. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by stirling

[manitou]

21 hours ago, steve said:

 

On reflection, it seems to me that most folks believe something. If they are atheist, they are very likely to be materialist,  rationalist,  artist, republican, democrat, socialist, scientist… something. It is the rare mystic! that has overcome identification. We find great support in identifying and defining ourselves, be it familial role, profession, avocation… all are limiting.

The theist may have a taste for the divine essence of things and this might be instrumental for awakening in some of us. A profound support like that can help us to let go fully and can be a blessing when the process gets dark and nihilism looms.

 

Hard to know what factors will open us up. One thing is likely, they’re related in some way to whatever is preventing us from opening and connecting.

 

 

I consider myself to be an art-ist, but I think we're talking about apples and oranges.  Being an artist is not actually a belief, it's just the is-ness of our selves.  I say that about atheists because they are not caught up in the duality of believing that some god-force outside of themselves is going to pave the way.  Finding the inner baby before it has learned to smile is a process of reduction.  If one is caught up in dogma, there is the necessity of having to remove dogma before the baby is found.  Assumedly the atheist has no god-dualism to shed.  No doubt that the various paths help to get us there.  But that's all they are.  Paths to ultimately be transcended.

 

What next?  Chop wood, carry water 

 

Love to you, my friend Steve.  I hope all is well with you and yours.

[Lairg]

Perhaps it is worth distinguishing a Theist from a Deist,   Thus the a-theist believes that there is no God, while an a-deist believes there is no Force

 

A lot of atheists seem to me to be deists.