Qi Gong system for chronic fatigue?

[spanda]

Hi Bums,

 

I got Covid a year ago and have been suffering from post viral chronic fatigue syndrome since. My symptoms now are mainly headaches, fatigue (the kind you feel when you have a flu, not just "tired") and sometimes, difficulty thinking and pain in the center of my chest.

 

For the past few months, the symptoms come and go. So I might feel OK for a week, then sick for a few weeks. Too much of any activity makes the symptoms worse - exercise, talking, thinking, working etc. This makes it difficult to manage. I have to take things very easy.

 

I discovered Qi Gong might be good for these symptoms after reading a Zen meditation book that talked about how monks in Japanese monasteries sometimes overworked themselves into this condition and used Qi Gong to heal themselves. I realized I could also use it to get a little movement in and would be much safer than yoga for my symptoms.

 

I started practicing Spring Forest Qi Gong since November. I've really enjoyed it. It's helped me emotionally and spiritually a lot I think, for physical symptoms, it's hard to say. I often feel good while doing it, but the effects don't last long after. I practice nearly every day, often one 30 minute session.

 

Since January I'm having more energy and would like to learn a system that has more movement than Spring Forest. It seems very static compared to others? I was looking at Bruce Frantzis's Dragon and Tiger system for example, that seems like a good medical Qi Gong, but with more motion. I discovered Damo Mitchell recently too, and am very interested in building my LDT. Perhaps this would even help with my energy issues? I also really like his knowledge level and presentation of Qi Gong.

 

So I'm looking for advice on which practice set to explore next out of the ones I've mentioned. Would trying to develop my LDT be too much energetic work right now? Stick with SFQ or check out Dragon and Tiger? Any input from experienced practitioners appreciated.

 

Outside of Qi Gong, I have a Tibetan calm abiding/open awareness meditation practice that I practice daily.

 

Thank you

 

 

 

[ilumairen]

Hello spanda,

 

Welcome to the bums; your account is approved.

 

Sorry to read of your on going difficulties. Hopefully you find what you are looking for, and some respite from the continuing symptoms.

 

warm regards,

ilu

[forestofclarity]

3 hours ago, spanda said:

I was looking at Bruce Frantzis's Dragon and Tiger system for example, that seems like a good medical Qi Gong, but with more motion. I discovered Damo Mitchell recently too, and am very interested in building my LDT. Perhaps this would even help with my energy issues? I also really like his knowledge level and presentation of Qi Gong.

 

I enjoy D&T a lot. Bruce's system gets some flak on here, and his persona can be a bit off-putting, but it is the only qigong I've done that has healed my back (combined with energy gates standing). It has also helped my own meditation practices tremendously. Bruce's teachings dovetail nicely with Tibetan practices. 

 

Damo's MCO course is not suggested for beginners, but it is free. Also, he has a Foundations course you can look at on Vimeo. 

 

In both cases, I am skeptical about how much one can learn via online without in-person adjustments. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by forestofemptiness

[anshino23]

56 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said:

Damo's LDT course is not suggested for beginners, but it is free. Also, he has a Foundations course you can look at on Vimeo. 

 

I assume you mean the Microcosmic Orbit course he published freely? Activating the lower dantien and building it is included in the internal arts academy in the weekly neigong classes where you gradually learn how to build the field and the mechanics behind it. Safety is encouraged at all times. 

[liminal_luke]

Hi spanda,

 

It´s not a qigong system but you might check out the dynamic neural retraining system (dnrs).

 

https://retrainingthebrain.com/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-covid-long-hauler-brain-fog-connected/

 

I ordered the online program recently and am finding it pretty fascinating.  There are testimonials from people with both chronic fatigue and long-haul Co-vid.  Good luck!

 

[forestofclarity]

2 minutes ago, anshino23 said:

 

I assume you mean the Microcosmic Orbit course he published freely? Activating the lower dantien and building it is included in the internal arts academy in the weekly neigong classes where you gradually learn how to build the field and the mechanics behind it. Safety is encouraged at all times. 

Correct, I made the edit. 

[dwai]

Check out the art of living sudarshan kriya yoga (SKY) protocol. 
 

https://www.srisriravishankar.org/sudarshan-kriya

 

It is very powerful and there are good online instructions in our post-covid world. 

[Toni]

I strongly recommend you Fragrant Qi Gong, I can guarantee you it does miracles

[spanda]

4 hours ago, ilumairen said:

Hello spanda,

 

Welcome to the bums; your account is approved.

 

Sorry to read of your on going difficulties. Hopefully you find what you are looking for, and some respite from the continuing symptoms.

 

warm regards,

ilu

Thanks so much for the warm welcome ilu.

 

And thanks all for the suggestions!

[spanda]

@Toni I've seen FQ recommended on here. It does sound amazing. Would you recommend the DVD's from the Australian teacher, whose name is escaping me...? His website was the only one I could find out there on FQ.

 

@forestofemptiness Thanks for sharing the personal experience. I can see how Bruce would come off negatively, but his systems seem legit. I agree. At some point I'd need (and would like) in-person instruction, so the overall vibe of the teacher and school is of some consideration for long term fit. I enjoy what little I've learned of Qi Gong so far and can see myself continuing a practice even if I get over this health issue.

 

@liminal_luke Thank you. I'm using a similar program called Reset. It uses some similar techniques, but I've read it's a little safer, or maybe, sophisticated. I've heard mixed things about DNRS from the CFS/ME community. Reset has an emphasis on keeping you from entering into the sympathetic state. For the first 6 months of my illness, this was a big issue for me. My hear rate was constantly elevated.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by spanda

[Toni]

5 minutes ago, spanda said:

@Toni I've seen FQ recommended on here. It does sound amazing. Would you recommend the DVD's from the Australian teacher, whose name is escaping me...? His website was the only one I could find out there on FQ.

 

@forestofemptiness Thanks for sharing the personal experience. I can see how Bruce would come off negatively, but his systems seem legit. I agree. At some point I'd need (and would like) in-person instruction, so the overall vibe of the teacher and school is of some consideration for long term fit. I enjoy what little I've learned of Qi Gong so far and can see myself continuing a practice even if I get over this health issue.

 

@liminal_luke Thank you. I'm using a similar program called Reset. It uses some similar techniques, but I've read it's a little safer, or maybe, sophisticated. I've heard mixed things about DNRS from the CFS/ME community. Reset has an emphasis on keeping you from entering into the sympathetic state. For the first 6 months of my illness, this was a big issue for me. My hear rate was constantly elevated.

 

 

yes, John Dolic is a good teacher. However is not the only one, this video is quite good:

 

 

[cheya]

Spanda, How have you been treating the post viral CF besides the Qi Gong? Any vitamins, herbs, nasal washes etc?  Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt has some protocols for long haulers, including those types of treatments, if you are interested, I could try to summarize some of it from my notes... 

[spanda]

Hi Cheya,

 

Thanks for asking. Yes, I'm also working with a functional medicine doctor. She has me on a load of supplements - vitamins,  herbs, and some medical compounds I guess you could call them. I'm also taking low dose naltrexone. I incorporate Pacing into my day and some breathing exercises for calming the nervous system.

 

Would be curious to here what the Dr. has to offer, open to any to approaches that may help.

[cheya]

Good that you've got a functional med doc!

Briefly... Dr. Klinghardt recommends licorice extract, adrenal support, low dose cortisone, maca, ginseng... and you must sleep well.

 

My notes are long, and embarrassingly obscure at points, as he talks kind of fast sometimes. He has a protocol for avoiding long hauler's, starting with orthomolecular approaches (vitamins and minerals), which you are probably on already.  Herbs, he mentions Andrographis plus, called Vital 9 in the US, Liqorice extract. And Japanese Knotweed for Lyme, which he says is often underlying for long haulers.  Topical applications of hot water gargle 4x day, hypochlorous acid (saltwater with electricity, which he speaks very highly of), and propolis spray. If lungs are involved, Propolis inhaler, melatonin in high doses (50-200 mg @ bedtime) and also andrographis.  Many of the things he recommends can be obtained from KiScience.

 

LH's need nerve regeneration, for which he recommends Luteolin and PEA. Glialia off eBay. B12 injections, 5-20 mg 2x a week. 

 

He says long haulers really need to do a gall bladder flush, due to sludge in the biliary system  which is preventing total elimination of the virus.

 

That's a summary of the parts of my notes I have fair confidence in, lol. Maybe you will find some helpful bits! 

Edited April 24, 2021 by cheya

[spanda]

Thanks Chya!

 

I'm on a few of the more obscure things listed there - Mirica, which contains Luteolin and PEA. And liquid B12, which delivers a 2.5mg dose.

 

I've had a previous Lyme infection that was theoretically treated. I never had the fatigue or neurological symptoms, instead a major infection of my knee. My doctor thinks that means the bacteria may have been just been in my knee and possibly eliminated with the antibiotics. I've tested negative on the Western Blot, but she wants me to get a 1k US dollar test just to be sure at some point. Can't swing that right now, so have to wait. The supplement costs alone come in at almost $300 every 30-60 days.