East is East and West is West

[Apech]

I read somewhere, and I can't remember where, that the LDT in people moves according to latitude.  I wish I could remember the details.  But I was pondering the idea that the subtle body in humans varies with geography.  I also wondered if this explains why some Eastern systems seem to lack bite with Westerners.

 

One thing I pondered was the fact that Tibetans (and presumably others) would say that thinking takes place in the heart region while I am sure that every Westerner would say it was in the head.  I have heard that some Eastern teachers are quite puzzled why the same systems that work in the East don't work in the West - and usually this is usually dismissed as Westerners being slightly fucked up emotionally.  But maybe it is that we function slightly differently.

 

Obviously there is some questions to be addressed here and also I am conscious that East-West is a 'subjective' dimension while North-South is polar.  I'm not sure if subjective is the right word but it's obviously the case that there is no East point or West point except relative to where you are.  They are of course more or less the same word ... Spanish/Portuguese Este and Oeste and the latter, if you take the 'o' as the definite article could mean 'the east' - hence 'East and the East' - which is amusing.

 

Anyway I would be interested in discussing subtle body variations of any kind that might be important to us.

 

 

[forestofclarity]

Damo Mitchell says he found that it shifts as you get closer to the equator:

 

http://lotusneigong.com/the-ding-鼎-and-the-lu-爐/

 

I'm about as Western as it gets, and I haven't had any particular issues with Taoist or Tibetan energy systems. I had to go through a lengthy period of learning to relax/open (physically/mentally) though. If I had to speculate, Westerners may also be more impatient and try to "make things happen" much as the fable of the Chinese farmer who tried to make the crops grow by pulling on them. Finally, all this constant stimulation with Western devices/media isn't good, plus google and the internet is literally rewiring our brain. Many Westerners strike me as constantly overstimulated. 

[Taomeow]

Don't know if I can answer your question, but it's compelling to mull over.  

 

To a taoist, cardinal directions are formed by spacetime interactions of cosmic and earthly qi and do indeed have "points" that are relatively absolute (relatively, because they are determined by the position of the relatively immobile "axis" of the North Pole Star, but over many thousands of years, different stars slowly move into that position, so our current one, Polaris, while also the same star that was the North Pole Star to the founders of taoism, had a different predecessor, and thousands of years from now will have a different successor.)  These "relatively absolute" cardinal directions are built into the human body and account for its "weather" and "seasons" -- a function of your position not just in space but in time.  Your head is your personal South, your feet are your personal North, your left hand is East and your right hand is West.  (Taoist maps of cardinal directions reflect that -- South is determined by the position of the Sun, another real, not imaginary spacetime marker -- so they place North on the bottom and South on top over it, where the Sun is -- while Western maps "stand on their head." )  But simultaneously, your head is your Summer, your feet are your Winter, your left side is your Spring and your right side is your Autumn.  And your internal organs are likewise connected to directions and seasons in an orderly fashion and function accordingly.  E.g. thinking is an activity associated with fast mobility, which is a property of Heat, and Heat, in our world, is supplied by the Sun.  So thinking "with the head" is an external manifestation of that, while "with the heart" is its internal counterpart -- your deeper, innermost thinking does originate in the heart, the hot and mobile yang-summer-fire organ, and goes into the head therefrom, with the flow of your blood and the rising of your qi transfroming into shen on the way up.  (If you know how to return it and keep it circulating inside, you are beginning to practice what we call taoist alchemy.  If you don't, it will leave your body and dissipate.  Likewise if you put it to work on any external project.  Likewise if you keep it idle -- if nothing is done toward giving it an internal task, it dissipates by itself.  Poof...  gone.)   

 

The Sun is the ultimate yang-heat of our world, and that is located up over your head, not down under your feet, so "up there" is South and "down from there" is North.  The subtle body can get somewhat confused if the outer physical body follows some guidelines that don't align with its natural orientation.  All the stars and the sun and moon and earth are interconnected with each other and with your body.  I think ancient people actually felt these connections, while modern ones need to re-learn them -- there's too much noise in our world and subtle connections are hard to discern.

 

The LDT, however, is not entirely of spacetime nature even though it begins there -- just like a seed you plant, when it sprouts the two first tender leaves, may become a mighty forest in spacetime a thousand years from that moment, and the sun and moon and stars and sky will participate in that development.  But it also goes beyond -- to the timeless origins and the world of no shape and no form.  "Cultivating" the dantien brings into play your will, another mysterious force that can only bear fruit if used wisely -- just like a gardener, you don't help your sprouting plants to grow faster by pulling them up by the top, and don't expect great results from replanting them just anywhere -- there's climate and soil considerations.  People who "mix and match" systems and throw together "dantiens" and "chakras," "qi" and "prana," etc., remind me of a kind of idealistic gardener who imagines palm trees thriving in the tundra just because he happens to know that both exist and envisions something like a bountiful crop of Medjool dates falling on arctic moss. Yes, both exist, but in different climates, and if you want to cultivate dates, that's fine, and if you want to feed your herd of reindeer, don't send them looking for what Arabian horses like to eat.

 

Each one of us is an ecosystem  -- it's prudent to study it before undertaking any projects toward its modification.  As always, the main rule of cultivation applies.  Know the ecosystem you're working with.  Know thyself.  

[Apech]

1 hour ago, forestofemptiness said:

Damo Mitchell says he found that it shifts as you get closer to the equator:

 

http://lotusneigong.com/the-ding-鼎-and-the-lu-爐/

 

I'm about as Western as it gets, and I haven't had any particular issues with Taoist or Tibetan energy systems. I had to go through a lengthy period of learning to relax/open (physically/mentally) though. If I had to speculate, Westerners may also be more impatient and try to "make things happen" much as the fable of the Chinese farmer who tried to make the crops grow by pulling on them. Finally, all this constant stimulation with Western devices/media isn't good, plus google and the internet is literally rewiring our brain. Many Westerners strike me as constantly overstimulated. 

 

I wonder how much of this is chicken and egg - in other words the 'Western' system is generated by western minds ... although much of it is now South Korean, Japanese, Chinese in terms of tech and social media wotnots.

 

In the West we like to think we are rationalists and we objectify everything ... this must have some kind energy correlation ... ? what do you think?

[dwai]

I first came across this theory in Wang Liping's book "Opening the Dragon Gate". His theory is that the closer farther (north) we get to the equator, the lower our LDT moves.
 

P.S. Not sure about how that plays out for in the Southern Hemisphere, but it might be similar. Closer to the equator, the LDT is closer to the navel region. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by dwai

[Apech]

30 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

Don't know if I can answer your question, but it's compelling to mull over.  

 

To a taoist, cardinal directions are formed by spacetime interactions of cosmic and earthly qi and do indeed have "points" that are relatively absolute (relatively, because they are determined by the position of the relatively immobile "axis" of the North Pole Star, but over many thousands of years, different stars slowly move into that position, so our current one, Polaris, while also the same star that was the North Pole Star to the founders of taoism, had a different predecessor, and thousands of years from now will have a different successor.)  These "relatively absolute" cardinal directions are built into the human body and account for its "weather" and "seasons" -- a function of your position not just in space but in time.  Your head is your personal South, your feet are your personal North, your left hand is East and your right hand is West.  (Taoist maps of cardinal directions reflect that -- South is determined by the position of the Sun, another real, not imaginary spacetime marker -- so they place North on the bottom and South on top over it, where the Sun is -- while Western maps "stand on their head." )  But simultaneously, your head is your Summer, your feet are your Winter, your left side is your Spring and your right side is your Autumn.  And your internal organs are likewise connected to directions and seasons in an orderly fashion and function accordingly.  E.g. thinking is an activity associated with fast mobility, which is a property of Heat, and Heat, in our world, is supplied by the Sun.  So thinking "with the head" is an external manifestation of that, while "with the heart" is its internal counterpart -- your deeper, innermost thinking does originate in the heart, the hot and mobile yang-summer-fire organ, and goes into the head therefrom, with the flow of your blood and the rising of your qi transfroming into shen on the way up.  (If you know how to return it and keep it circulating inside, you are beginning to practice what we call taoist alchemy.  If you don't, it will leave your body and dissipate.  Likewise if you put it to work on any external project.  Likewise if you keep it idle -- if nothing is done toward giving it an internal task, it dissipates by itself.  Poof...  gone.)   

 

Yes this is interesting ... I guess the location of the astronomical north and the circulation of polar stars including Ursa Major is of universal importance to the north hemisphere peoples.  Just for comparison the Egyptian for right hand is the same as the word for West and left hand for East.

 

 

30 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

The Sun is the ultimate yang-heat of our world, and that is located up over your head, not down under your feet, so "up there" is South and "down from there" is North.  The subtle body can get somewhat confused if the outer physical body follows some guidelines that don't align with its natural orientation.  All the stars and the sun and moon and earth are interconnected with each other and with your body.  I think ancient people actually felt these connections, while modern ones need to re-learn them -- there's too much noise in our world and subtle connections are hard to discern.

 

Yes and modern city dwellers are perhaps the most disconnected - especially with modern light pollution.  I have found living in a rural place that I am much more conscious of the moon phases and bright planets and so on than I ever was before.

 

30 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

The LDT, however, is not entirely of spacetime nature even though it begins there -- just like a seed you plant, when it sprouts the two first tender leaves, may become a mighty forest in spacetime a thousand years from that moment, and the sun and moon and stars and sky will participate in that development.  But it also goes beyond -- to the timeless origins and the world of no shape and no form.  "Cultivating" the dantien brings into play your will, another mysterious force that can only bear fruit if used wisely -- just like a gardener, you don't help your sprouting plants to grow faster by pulling them up by the top, and don't expect great results from replanting them just anywhere -- there's climate and soil considerations.  People who "mix and match" systems and throw together "dantiens" and "chakras," "qi" and "prana," etc., remind me of a kind of idealistic gardener who imagines palm trees thriving in the tundra just because he happens to know that both exist and envisions something like a bountiful crop of Medjool dates falling on arctic moss. Yes, both exist, but in different climates, and if you want to cultivate dates, that's fine, and if you want to feed your herd of reindeer, don't send them looking for what Arabian horses like to eat.

 

Are Western gardens different to Eastern ones?
 

30 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

Each one of us is an ecosystem  -- it's prudent to study it before undertaking any projects toward its modification.  As always, the main rule of cultivation applies.  Know the ecosystem you're working with.  Know thyself.  

 

[Cleansox]

There is a difference between East and West that psychology research often confirm: In the west there is a focus on Me, as an individual. In the east, there is a greater identification with We. This changes how the brain works, and probably how we interpret things in the peripersonal space, the later being relevant to meditation practice. 

[Master Logray]

34 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

People who "mix and match" systems and throw together "dantiens" and "chakras," "qi" and "prana," etc., remind me of a kind of idealistic gardener who imagines palm trees thriving in the tundra just because he happens to know that both exist and envisions something like a bountiful crop of Medjool dates falling on arctic moss. Yes, both exist, but in different climates, and if you want to cultivate dates, that's fine, and if you want to feed your herd of reindeer, don't send them looking for what Arabian horses like to eat.

 

I like this example.

 

@Apech  I happened to ask a member from Australia how do the orientation works in the southern hemisphere.

 

[Apech]

4 minutes ago, dwai said:

I first came across this theory in Wang Liping's book "Opening the Dragon Gate". His theory is that the closer we get to the equator, the lower our LDT moves. 

 

Ah yes, I think that's where I first read it.  Thanks.  Can you recall what significance he gave to it?

 

 

[Apech]

1 minute ago, Cleansox said:

There is a difference between East and West that psychology research often confirm: In the west there is a focus on Me, as an individual. In the east, there is a greater identification with We. This changes how the brain works, and probably how we interpret things in the peripersonal space, the later being relevant to meditation practice. 

 

 

Do you think this is cultural or something deeper?

[dwai]

4 hours ago, Apech said:

One thing I pondered was the fact that Tibetans (and presumably others) would say that thinking takes place in the heart region while I am sure that every Westerner would say it was in the head.  I have heard that some Eastern teachers are quite puzzled why the same systems that work in the East don't work in the West - and usually this is usually dismissed as Westerners being slightly fucked up emotionally.  But maybe it is that we function slightly differently.

I have a friend (was a Professor of Philosophy in StonyBrook University) who, along with his wife (also a PhD with focus on biomedical sciences) developed a system they call "Biocultures". According to them, different cultural contexts rely on different modalities for cognition and thinking. 

https://www.medhajournal.com/the-biocultural-paradigm-the-neural-connection-between-science-and-mysticism/

https://www.medhajournal.com/neurobiology-and-yoga-from-the-gods-of-the-amygdala-to-the-god-of-the-heart/

 

For the TL;DR read the quoted section below --

http://www.antoniotdenicolas.com/biocultures.html

Quote

THE BIOCULTURAL PARADIGM

INTRODUCTION: ON THE NATURE / NURTURE DEBATE

 

The nature/nurture controversy, sometimes known as the evolution/environment controversy, seems to have trickled down into the information systems of the vernacular world as an unfortunate rift between dueling scholarly camps. In one camp, the nature/evolution camp, lie those scholars whose research on the forefront of neurobiological discoveries have led to amazing revelations about the biological origins of many of our "human" characteristics. In the other camp, the nurture/environment camp, lie those scholars whose research on the forefront of sociological discoveries have led to amazing revelations about the sociological origins of many of our "human" characteristics. The glaring negative implications of wholeheartedly ingesting the evolutionary model seem obvious. Where do these evolutionary "discoveries" place our time-honored beliefs in human freedom, will, choice, individuality and the like? What of "original sin", moral judgement, reward and punishment, not to mention the "work and you too shall succeed" tenet? Finally, does accepting this evolutionary model, at root, mean accepting that we, as humans, are basically composed merely of deterministic, unconscious quanta? While few of us would truly espouse these coldly deterministic conclusions, most would also aver that accepting the basic tenets of the proponents of the environmental paradigm wholeheartedly likewise smacks at the face of reason, especially in a society that prides itself on state-of-the-art scientific discoveries as its primary criterion of superiority.

 

THE PARADIGM

 

The Biocultural Paradigm is offered as a model that transcends both the nature and the nurture camps by recognizing the neurobiological origins of human development AND by deliniating exactly how sociological influences and when sociological influences can and cannot affect those neurobiological invariants.

Utilizing existing discoveries in evolutionary neurobiology and Selection Theory, the scientific basis of the Biocultural Paradigm is established. This Paradigm is composed of five proto-cultural models ("biocultures") which correspond to the five evolutionary centers of our neurological structures; our five "brains". They are:

• The Maia Bioculture, whose primary neural link is the Reptilian brain and its communication to the amygdala and septal regions of the Limbic System.
• The Mythos Bioculture, whose primary neural link is the prefrontal cortex and the Limbic System.
• The Right Brain Mimetic Bioculture, whose primary neural link is the right hemisphere of the Neo-cortex.
• The Left Brain Mimetic Bioculture, whose primary neural link is the left hemisphere of the Neo-cortex.
• The Logos Bioculture, whose primary neural link is to the "interpreter module" of the left hemisphere of the Neo- cortex.

Each bioculture, then, is formed by the cultural manifestation of the primacy of one neural function over the others. While, initially, it is through individual human development that choices are made as to the primacy of certain neurological traits over others; eventually,(through the habitual repetition of the primacy of certain neurological links at the expense of others), these individual traits become societal ones; thus forming the Socio-biological basis for the Biocultural Paradigm.

The sociological evidence for the Biocultural Paradigm is founded primarily upon socio-linguistic grounds, by analyzing the relationships between the literary remnants of certain cultures and their corresponding social, political and religious structures. The literary evidence is examined as it elucidates a neural map of cortical activity (thereby offering clues as to the biocultural slant of the group), while the social, political and religious systems are examined for evidence of neurological predispositions that manifest externally as cultural substitution systems. In other words, the Biocultural Paradigm examines both the apparent structure of external, societal "reality" and the structure of internal, cortical "reality"; the reasons why and how the internal reality CREATES the external one, and why and how studying the external reality (the nurture/environment data) without first understanding the workings and limitations of the internal reality (the nature/evolutionary data) can oftentimes lead to biased results.

 

[Apech]

4 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

 

I like this example.

 

@Apech  I happened to ask a member from Australia how do the orientation works in the southern hemisphere.

 

 

 

Thanks I hadn't seen that.

 

'the sun always rises in the east' ... I could be a smart ass and say no it doesn't it just appears to

 

 

[Master Logray]

4 hours ago, Apech said:

that the LDT in people moves according to latitude.

 

 

Thailand, Burma, Sri Lanka are Buddhist countries.  Malaysia and Singapore have lot of Buddhist and Taoist.  They are all near the equator or directly under it.  If LDT exhibits different behaviours, then the information must have been well-known over the ages.  But there is not.

 

[Cleansox]

28 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

 

Do you think this is cultural or something deeper?

Guess: Cultural. 

[dwai]

35 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Ah yes, I think that's where I first read it.  Thanks.  Can you recall what significance he gave to it?

 

 

Found this...

 

[Taomeow]

53 minutes ago, dwai said:

I first came across this theory in Wang Liping's book "Opening the Dragon Gate". His theory is that the closer we get to the equator, the lower our LDT moves. 

 

Wang Liping even went to the North Pole to study the peculiarities of inner/subtle alignments in relation to physical geography.    It's an area of his research, just like the subtle alignments in relation to the differences in physical bodies.  He started looking into that when he started teaching Westerners.  Some of it has (also subtle) relevance to the actual practice -- e.g. taoist classics that explain how to "reach" the upper dantien at a certain point when working with ling were written with anatomical pointers to the shape of the bridge of the nose prevalent in China but rare among people of European origin, so he was trying to determine if those pointers might have to be adjusted for Westerners.  In general, there's not much (if any) "settled" taoist theory that deals with those differences -- they are acknowledged but not considered of ultimate importance.  

 

59 minutes ago, Apech said:

Are Western gardens different to Eastern ones?

  

Yes, although how much of it is nature and how much is nurture is not always easy to tell.  A lot of the difference is cultural -- not so much between East and West as between which plants a particular culture sees as worthy of cultivation vs. weeds to eradicate.  And that can shift between East and West, or rather, mostly eastward from the West in modern times, to the extent that differences get flattened.  I've met many people from the East who are fully or almost fully Western in their interactions with the world and understanding of it, because such was their schooling, fully or almost fully Western.  One thing I've observed though is that, with exposure, it's somewhat easier for some of them to "shake off" their Western overlay when/if they undertake an Eastern practice.  In any event, most (though not all) taiji students I've met who were Chinese had a tendency to progress better/faster and with deeper inner connectedness than most of their Western counterparts.  Although they do tend to practice more, with more discipline and dedication -- as tradition requires -- and if they don't, they're in exactly the same boat as Westerners.  So, who knows.        

[Apech]

The more I think about it, the more I see that subtle body and subtle realm 'phenomena' make continuous impact upon us.  Part of the problem with the modern (mostly western) view is that it denies this and attributes everything to the objective and physical.  There's a kind of weight in this western view which is very hard to get away from.  I think scientific dogmatism piggy backs on this ... which is a problem not because the western view is invalid but because it is incomplete (because apart from anything else it cannot account for the subtle or the causal levels of existence).

 

An instance of this would be the failure of western thinkers to understand that rationalism is an emotional position.  They pretend it is dry logic but actually it is (highly) emotive - which is why when challenged by alternative views it gets so spikey and aggressive.  The reason, I think, it is emotive is because rational/scientific people have pushed their subtle bodies into a distorted pattern where energy is forced into the head (upper dt ??) to extent that it shuts down their capacity to feel subtle energy movements.

 

I think the answer may be that energy is supposed to cycle - that it may go to a phase of maximum condensation which we experience as physical reality but that it then it must cycle back to the most subtle and so on.  Trying to fix it, or to fix reality is just our insecurity.

 

Thoughts?

[Cleansox]

32 minutes ago, Apech said:

The more I think about it, the more I see that subtle body and subtle realm 'phenomena' make continuous impact upon us.  Part of the problem with the modern (mostly western) view is that it denies this and attributes everything to the objective and physical.  There's a kind of weight in this western view which is very hard to get away from.  I think scientific dogmatism piggy backs on this ... which is a problem not because the western view is invalid but because it is incomplete (because apart from anything else it cannot account for the subtle or the causal levels of existence).

32 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Thoughts?

I think that as western model science developes, it will fill in blanks that at the moment are blind spots. I would disagree about the objective part, most seems to agree that it is the subjective experience of phenomena that affects us, including sensory information that we cannot readily relate to any specific objective situation. 

[Apech]

20 minutes ago, Cleansox said:

I think that as western model science developes, it will fill in blanks that at the moment are blind spots. I would disagree about the objective part, most seems to agree that it is the subjective experience of phenomena that affects us, including sensory information that we cannot readily relate to any specific objective situation. 

 

That's interesting - could you develop that idea a bit more?

 

 

[dwai]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

The more I think about it, the more I see that subtle body and subtle realm 'phenomena' make continuous impact upon us.  Part of the problem with the modern (mostly western) view is that it denies this and attributes everything to the objective and physical.  There's a kind of weight in this western view which is very hard to get away from.  I think scientific dogmatism piggy backs on this ... which is a problem not because the western view is invalid but because it is incomplete (because apart from anything else it cannot account for the subtle or the causal levels of existence).

 

An instance of this would be the failure of western thinkers to understand that rationalism is an emotional position.  They pretend it is dry logic but actually it is (highly) emotive - which is why when challenged by alternative views it gets so spikey and aggressive.  The reason, I think, it is emotive is because rational/scientific people have pushed their subtle bodies into a distorted pattern where energy is forced into the head (upper dt ??) to extent that it shuts down their capacity to feel subtle energy movements.

 

I think the answer may be that energy is supposed to cycle - that it may go to a phase of maximum condensation which we experience as physical reality but that it then it must cycle back to the most subtle and so on.  Trying to fix it, or to fix reality is just our insecurity.

 

Thoughts?

Very interesting ideas. I find the biggest drawback of the “western” (aka modern - and it is prevalent in all urban cultures today) mindset is that it is too rigid vis-a-vis the “scientific” framework. Most people aren’t even really scientific in the truest sense though — they are either practicing (most) or recovering materialists.  This materialistic model of the world is what they call “scientific”. 

 

Until the primordial role of consciousness is brought into and accepted by mainstream “science” (i.e., rejection of absolute materialism), the modern individual is going to be significantly handicapped in their ability to even understand, let alone manifest spiritual truth.  

Fascinating thoughts about the subtle body/subtle realm. Thoughts & ideas always exist in the collective consciousness (universal mind), which are attracted by individual minds based on habitual patterns. In the Vedantic model, we call these “Vasanas” or “samskaras”. These exist in seed form in the causal realm. Each “individual” entity has their own storehouse of such impressions/patterns (called “karmic fruits” or causal phenomena). There are certain kinds of patterns that develop as a result of the culture in which the individuals exist/grow up/live. So more such patterns form. A large proportion of individuals of that cultural context will gravitate towards similar patterns, thus drawing into their minds from the subtle realm thoughts and ideas that resonate with their specific set of causal patterns.
 

Edited April 15, 2021 by dwai

[forestofclarity]

21 hours ago, Apech said:

In the West we like to think we are rationalists and we objectify everything ... this must have some kind energy correlation ... ? what do you think?

 

Yes, of course. As the Tibetans say: nangwa sem--- appearances are mind. So what you see is a projection of your inner state. Angry people experience and feel a very different world than positive people. We can see this in ourselves--- when upset, tired, and down, the world seems much sharper and full of edges. When in a good mood, everything seems fluid, free, and it is easier to see the good in others. For myself, the world was once quite fixed, solid, and material. 

 

You can also see it as people age. When younger, we tend to be more open, less fixed in our opinions, and have more qi. As we age, it appears there is an ossification of body, qi stagnates, and opinions/thoughts/world views become quite fixed. 

 

The good news is that this fixity is merely an illusion. Nothing is fixed. Everything is changing, fluid, and interdependent. But this habit of mind/qi can take some time to work with. 

[Bindi]

I believe the subtle body is the energy form that is visible as the emotions and mentations, and that at its most energised and balanced it reflects into the world as compassion and wisdom. I suspect that when the subtle body is fully energised and balanced, this gives birth to the next level, something that is not currently reflected in us, maybe not even in existence until the energised and balanced subtle body ‘births’ it. 
 

To me Westerners are working with the subtle body via psychology models, Freud’s emotional/mental complexes are the kinks and knots in the subtle body, and a perfectly valid place to start affecting the subtle body for the better. 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Bindi

[Nungali]

On 15/04/2021 at 2:49 AM, Apech said:

 

 

Thanks I hadn't seen that.

 

'the sun always rises in the east' ... I could be a smart ass and say no it doesn't it just appears to

 

 

 

But that is not the only dynamic going n with that - . of course we  are in a geocentric framework with this but .... . I dealt with a lot of this stuff 'down here' in the pagan tradition ( my 'blood' Euro traditions ) that where transported 'below the equator and also in Hermetics , also originating in the north . A lot of it, being natural science , is related to environment . Things like ; movement of celestial bodies ( similar in both but see below ), local prevailing  weather conditions  ( the 'traditional elemental directions' seem based on this and come from a Jewish tradition, via kabbalah into hermetics , that is  , the prevailing weather on the east coast of the Mediterranean, next down scale is local geography ; mountains, seas, etc . 

 

But although the 2  'longitude directions ' never change, they are tricky and a matter of 'time' or 'rotation' , the path of the sun, being the most obvious, but also the Moon and planets , ie the 'path of the ecliptic ' . If you want to look at any of this, or 'align' with this ,   in the north you face south with east on your left but in the south you face north with the east on your right . This becomes apparent in a normal circular horoscope map ( natal, showing a birth location as well ).

 

As said, about the only thing that doesnt change is the magnetic energy flow .    Some cultures bury their dead aligned , but usually in relation to the path of the Sun. The effect is mostly felt by some in how one aligns the body for sleep ;  do you sleep head north or south , is the magnetic energy flowing past you feet or head first ?   When standing,  facing north or south  (aside from ecliptic considerations ) can you detect any subtle difference in 'flow' .

 

We have a small atrophied ( for some ) gland in the brain  that works like the inner ear , instead of a gravity detector its a magnetic detector . Its still very active in other animals , like birds , but some indigenous people still have use of it .  I did write a paper on this and the use of this ability and enhancement  by painting patterns on the body in blood and ochre (both high in iron and conductive )

 

 

 

 

- but then I got told it was  NFPI !  - naughty !

 

(not for public information )

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Nungali

[Taomeow]

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

As said, about the only thing that doesnt change is the magnetic energy flow .  

 

 

What about magnetic pole shifts?

[Cleansox]

18 hours ago, Apech said:

 

That's interesting - could you develop that idea a bit more?

 

 

A person with secure attachment and a person with messed-up life experiences will react totally different, on all levels, in a stressful social situation. 

 

They might be placed side by side and therefore objectively should have close to the same sensory input, but on an interpretive level they might be way separated. 

 

This includes peripersonal space and the ability to interpersonal synchronisation, interpersonal space as the sensed (but not understood, since most people have no idea that the brain do not consider that "I" do not end with the skin) need for protective distance. 

 

(Yes, I'm a total science nerd, and I have trained myself to be aware of different levels of energetics.)