Indiken Posted April 20, 2021 hello. i did realize in this forum, that i am a fool. it is sad and very personal, my question is, what views do have different spiritual traditions about fools? i promise not to troll this time Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stirling Posted April 20, 2021 Ironically, The Fool most often indicates new beginnings. https://www.thetarotguide.com/the-fool 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indiken Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, stirling said: Ironically, The Fool most often indicates new beginnings. https://www.thetarotguide.com/the-fool oh, i was called, also, a child tarot in another place. god to know. tahnk you. and deep bows to you. Edited April 21, 2021 by Indiken Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Master Logray Posted April 21, 2021 14 hours ago, Indiken said: hello. i did realize in this forum, that i am a fool. it is sad and very personal, my question is, what views do have different spiritual traditions about fools? i promise not to troll this time You may not know that the most suitable type of person for Taoist Inner Alchemy is not a smart person, but rather a dumb one. A smart person usually has a lot of desires, a quick mind, in-depth thinking. All these are harmful to stilling the mind. A dumb and dedicated person, willing to take all the boredom, loneliness, without query, is more ideal. As to whether fool and dumb are the same or which kind of fool is more suitable, it is not clear. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted April 21, 2021 Quote Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 20 Give up learning, and put an end to your troubles. Is there a difference between yes and no? Is there a difference between good and evil? Must I fear what others fear? What nonsense! Other people are contented, enjoying the sacrificial feast of the ox. In spring some go to the park, and climb the terrace, But I alone am drifting not knowing where I am. Like a new-born babe before it learns to smile, I am alone, without a place to go. Others have more than they need, but I alone have nothing. I am a fool. Oh, yes! I am confused. Other men are clear and bright, But I alone am dim and weak. Other men are sharp and clever, But I alone am dull and stupid. Oh, I drift like the waves of the sea. Without direction, like the restless wind. Everyone else is busy, But I alone am aimless and depressed. I am different. I am nourished by the great mother. source -- https://www.wussu.com/laotzu/laotzu20.html 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indiken Posted April 21, 2021 56 minutes ago, dwai said: source -- https://www.wussu.com/laotzu/laotzu20.html thank you, dwai, i was too shy to tell this to people here, same words from different mouths do differ, don't they? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted April 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, Indiken said: thank you, dwai, i was too shy to tell this to people here, same words from different mouths do differ, don't they? I’ve found that each individual goes through a journey to reach this conclusion. Sometimes the journey spans lifetimes 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
forestofclarity Posted April 21, 2021 "One who teaches oneself has a fool for a student." --- Lincoln Tzu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indiken Posted April 21, 2021 13 minutes ago, forestofemptiness said: "One who teaches oneself has a fool for a student." --- Lincoln Tzu hey, forest, could you explain? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted April 21, 2021 On 4/21/2021 at 5:24 AM, Indiken said: i did realize in this forum, that i am a fool. Hi Indiken, So am I... - Anand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted April 22, 2021 On 4/21/2021 at 6:04 AM, stirling said: The Fool most often indicates new beginnings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted April 22, 2021 11 hours ago, Master Logray said: As to whether fool and dumb are the same or which kind of fool is more suitable, it is not clear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted April 22, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, forestofemptiness said: "One who teaches oneself has a fool for a student." --- Lincoln Tzu 7 hours ago, Indiken said: hey, forest, could you explain? Edited April 22, 2021 by Limahong Enhancement Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted April 22, 2021 8 hours ago, Indiken said: same words from different mouths do differ, don't they? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stirling Posted April 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Limahong said: Ah... but the fool DOES learn. The journey is through the major arcana. In terms of the tarot, the subject of ALL readings is understood to have begun as the fool. Yes, this means you and me as well. The real fool is the one who believes there is any journey (path) or agency at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indiken Posted April 22, 2021 hey, Limahong, i had thoughts about you and questions to ask, but i did hesitate to write pm to you, and here you came and answered them, there is possibility that you did not realize this consciously, interesting the life is, isn't it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted April 22, 2021 4 hours ago, Indiken said: interesting the life is, isn't it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted April 22, 2021 8 hours ago, stirling said: Ah... but the fool DOES learn. Hi stirling, Thanks to Indiken ~ there is something humbling about this thread. YES ~ 'the fool DOES learn'. Why? It is cool ~ to be a fool. But don't dump me into the pool. 8 hours ago, stirling said: The journey is through the major arcana. In terms of the tarot, the subject of ALL readings is understood to have begun as the fool. I am not into the Tarot. But I live Life on a road less traveled as... 8 hours ago, stirling said: Yes, this means you and me as well. But of course ~ yes. 8 hours ago, stirling said: The real fool is the one who believes there is any journey (path) or agency at all. Heaven forbids ~ I do not want to walk in his/her path. Why? Only a real fool leaves behind a foolprint... But an ordained fool leaves behind... Thank you for... . I am hearing it for the first time... - Anand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted April 22, 2021 On 4/21/2021 at 7:48 AM, dwai said: source -- https://www.wussu.com/laotzu/laotzu20.html I keep this in mind all the time. Because my brain is getting confused about worldly things (like what day it is. seriously) I take a little comfort knowing that the sage too considered himself a fool. A fool would be the same as the beginner's mind, no? The beginner's mind is what is strived for. A mind which has no pre--conclusions or as void of conditioning as possible. Dementia is doing it for me on the natch, but I also wonder if worldly thoughts haven't taken a back seat to metaphysical thinking. The fact that someone comes to the conclusion that they have been a fool is a momentous event. It means, for that moment at least, that arrogance has been conquered, true humility is within reach. I applaud you, @Indiken, for your courage and your willingness to share your evolution here with us. You're a real quick study, aren't you? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
forestofclarity Posted April 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, manitou said: Dementia is doing it for me on the natch, but I also wonder if worldly thoughts haven't taken a back seat to metaphysical thinking. Damn, sorry to hear that. But glad you obviously have developed the skills to cope with it (or so it seems from here). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indiken Posted April 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, manitou said: I keep this in mind all the time. Because my brain is getting confused about worldly things (like what day it is. seriously) I take a little comfort knowing that the sage too considered himself a fool. A fool would be the same as the beginner's mind, no? The beginner's mind is what is strived for. A mind which has no pre--conclusions or as void of conditioning as possible. Dementia is doing it for me on the natch, but I also wonder if worldly thoughts haven't taken a back seat to metaphysical thinking. The fact that someone comes to the conclusion that they have been a fool is a momentous event. It means, for that moment at least, that arrogance has been conquered, true humility is within reach. I applaud you, @Indiken, for your courage and your willingness to share your evolution here with us. You're a real quick study, aren't you? thank you, the community is very helpful, i am really sorry, should i write this? there is a possibility, that i work not from a daoist viewpoint, the thread was, to attract people who want to humiliate me, and exercise my abilities to lie, in other words, i did want to manipulate people here, 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted April 22, 2021 24 minutes ago, manitou said: The fact that someone comes to the conclusion that they have been a fool is a momentous event. It means, for that moment at least, that arrogance has been conquered, true humility is within reach. I applaud you, @Indiken, for your courage and your willingness to share your evolution here with us. You're a real quick study, aren't you? In our system (Temple style), we are repeatedly reminded to let go of artificial knowledge, acquired mental conditioning, so we can become like a child - not judging, not categorizing as “me and other” or “friend and foe”, etc. The adage “no enemy, no self” is a simple statement but its significance reverberates in all aspects of life (especially as we go deeper into that practice/way of life). But I have to admit that it is very hard to live by in the transactional world — at least in many aspects thereof. One of the most humbling experiences of my life so far, has been in the process of reconciling of my professional objectives with the dropping of ambition (attachment). As it unfolds, often in profoundly confounding ways, the dropping of personality identification causes turmoil...in family life and therefore in professional life. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liminal_luke Posted April 22, 2021 52 minutes ago, Indiken said: the thread was, to attract people who want to humiliate me, Indiken, I suspect you won´t find many people here who want to humiliate you. That may or may not be what you´re used to, but it´s probably for the best. Luke 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted April 22, 2021 15 minutes ago, liminal_luke said: Indiken, I suspect you won´t find many people here who want to humiliate you. That may or may not be what you´re used to, but it´s probably for the best. Luke Well said Luke! The most progress happens when we let our defenses down and open ourselves up. After that, if someone tries to "hurt" us, it is their problem, not ours. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted April 22, 2021 1 hour ago, manitou said: my brain is getting confused about worldly things Hi Barbara, To hell with worldly things ~ they are there to confuse us. For those who like to control/manipulate/divide... the world ~ confusion is their ally. You have come a long long from the time you lost J. There is now a lot of clarity in your thoughts. 53 minutes ago, Indiken said: (like what day it is. seriously) Seriously ~ if you dare to forget what day it is (everyday)... I will descend upon you with a virtual cane. I whack hard ~ be it virtual or otherwise. 1 hour ago, manitou said: The fact that someone comes to the conclusion that they have been a fool is a momentous event. Can I have a dance with you... Thank you. - Anand 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
