Teachers and political opinions

[liminal_luke]

1 hour ago, forestofemptiness said:

 

Unless it involves guns and pickups? Or being anti-abortion? 

 

My forest, alas, is far from empty.  It´s cluttered with contrary and contentious biases.  But to the extent I´m aware of my biases, I can hold them lightly.  I like to think that makes a difference.  Work in progress here.

[stirling]

No teacher who is going to get you as far as you can go is going to deeply identify with practices, ideologies or politics. What kind of teacher do you want? An ENLIGHTENED teacher, and YES they are available. They are everywhere if you are truly looking.

 

The world IS as it IS. It is loving, embracing, always pointing to its deeper nature if you are looking for it. What is real wisdom? It is being WITH this suchness as it unfolds, it isn't in sowing fear, discord, and obscurations. A teacher who thinks their students can make a mistake doesn't GET IT.

 

Quote

The Great Way is not difficult,
for those who have no preferences.
Let go of longing and aversion,
and it reveals itself.

 

Make the smallest distinction, however,
and you are as far from it as heaven is from earth.
If you want to realize the truth,
then hold no opinions for or against anything.

 

Like and dislike
is the disease of the mind.
When the deep meaning (of the Way) is not understood
the intrinsic peace of mind is disturbed.

 

As vast as infinite space,
it is perfect and lacks nothing.
Indeed, it is due to your grasping and repelling
That you do not see things as they are.

 

Do not get entangled in things;
Do not get lost in emptiness.
Be still in the oneness of things
and dualism vanishes by itself.

 

 

...the rest is here - it is worth a read:

 

https://terebess.hu/english/hsin.html#23

[stirling]

On 4/22/2021 at 8:20 AM, forestofemptiness said:

Interestingly, one can look at this from a Buddhist POV through the three interpretations of the Pureland: 

 

1. The Pureland is where you go after death. In this view, one would focus one's efforts (or non-efforts) on attaining this Pureland.

 

2. The Pureland is the mind. In this view, the Pureland appears when the mind is no longer clinging and grasping. One's efforts (or non-efforts) are focused there. 

 

3. The Pureland can arise on earth. From this view, we need not wait until death nor until enlightenment to at least create a semblance of the Pureland here and now on earth. 

 

So if one is more inclined to #1-2, then one would expect one's teacher to stay clear of politics. But if one is inclined to #3, then I would certainly expect the teacher to have and even express political opinions. 

 

Personally, I don't mind a teacher's political leanings (left, right, center, non-) unless they support populist authoritarians. But usually, if a teacher is over-involved in politics, I am suspicious. Politics has a very "othering" tendency that I feel is incompatible with the spiritual path. But I agree with LL--- I usually go to a teacher for their particular expertise. 

 

 

In my experience there isn't really any reason to aim for a "Pureland", enlightenment isn't some unobtainable goal - it's completely possible in this lifetime, even for a householder.

[stirling]

7 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

I get where this idea comes from and generally agree.  99% of the time, the revolutionary impulse that fuels radical politics doesn´t emerge from a place of spiritual purity or true compassion.

 

Agreed... true compassion isn't meddling in what IS. True compassion is being WITH suffering as it happens, not "fixing" it or those who are suffering

 

Quote

“If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them.” - Dalai Lama XIV

 

The important part of this statement is the 2nd part. How we "help" can often be worse than simply being with the suffering.

[stirling]

On 4/23/2021 at 1:03 PM, SirPalomides said:

I suspect this kind of detached equanimity is an aspiration whose time has come and gone.

 

Not at all. It's literally everywhere! How strong is it? How strong is the self identity? 

[Hannes]

On 4/22/2021 at 3:28 AM, Vajra Fist said:

I'm curious about whether your thoughts on the political opinions of a teacher should influence your perception of what they teach.

 

I've run into a couple of teachers from qigong systems that I'm curious about, and from a quick look at their social media profiles, both are strongly anti-vaccine, anti-PC, anti-mask.

 

...

 

 

I am not a teacher but I with my limited understanding of the current situation I Am fairly confident to say the following

- Masks impair breathing, so it is not recommended for long times, unless in a really dangerous situation

- Masks have a weak effect in stopping the spread of covid.

- current vaccines aren't vaccines, unless you are referring only to sputnik 5. The others are a primitive gene therapy. And we are quite clueless about what we are messing with.

- The world needs kindness and compassion, not PC.

 

What saddens me even more is that questioning the "vaccine" makes one right wing in many people's eyes.
So many topics to polarize us and everything is being politicized. I saddens me.

 

I don't claim to have any answers and the only advice I can give is to be mindful of your zinc, vitamine C and D levels;

and to see the current times as a transition period. I wish there will be less sadness then that which I foresee currently.

The only thing one can do is try not to be part of this polarizing divide.

 

[silent thunder]

The health of a tree is revealed in its fruit.

 

 

 

[dwai]

This reminds be of two very verses (translations, so won’t rhyme like the original)  from The mystic Kabir Das —

 

What use is it to be a tall if you’re like the palm tree? The palm tree neither provides shade, nor fruit to help the weary traveler who passes it by. 
 

 

Speak such words that soothes the heart of those who listen to you, as well as yourself. 
 

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by dwai

[Limahong]

6 hours ago, silent thunder said:

The health of a tree is revealed in its fruit. (I)

 

  

 

A healthy tree ~ depicts a healthy ascent of the chakras

... up the Taiji Pole in the midst of Mother Nature?

 

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by Limahong
Enhancement

[forestofclarity]

17 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

My forest, alas, is far from empty.  It´s cluttered with contrary and contentious biases.  But to the extent I´m aware of my biases, I can hold them lightly.  I like to think that makes a difference.  Work in progress here.

To be fair, people don’t often react with prejudice and violence to my mere bodily existence, so it’s a little easier to be forgiving.

 

13 hours ago, stirling said:

 

In my experience there isn't really any reason to aim for a "Pureland", enlightenment isn't some unobtainable goal - it's completely possible in this lifetime, even for a householder.

 

No doubt we mean very different things by the term “enlightenment.” But of course, many people subscribe to #2.

[Limahong]

7 hours ago, silent thunder said:

The health of a tree is revealed in its fruit. (II)

 

 

  a healthy cherry tree and a healthy apple tree do need

Mother Nature to teach them

how to be fruitful...

 

  

 

 

and you know what?

they can fall in love with each other

 

REALLY!

 

 

 

 

[Indiken]

i want a teacher, who has technical understanding to achieve the goals which i do strive and who i can trust fully, if there is only one thing of the two, i would pass this teacher.

[Vajra Fist]

I think there's a Chinese saying on initiating a discussion that goes something like: 'offer a brick, and you might get jade in return.'

 

Just wanted to say thanks for all the jade.

[Indiken]

On 2021-04-26 at 3:14 PM, Vajra Fist said:

I think there's a Chinese saying on initiating a discussion that goes something like: 'offer a brick, and you might get jade in return.'

 

Just wanted to say thanks for all the jade.

 

i am sorry for the joke, i could not resist,

 

but i see only bricks here, 

 

wish you be well.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Indiken

[Zorro Dantes]

3 hours ago, Indiken said:

but i see only bricks here, 

The higher the bricks get stacked the higher the skill level is attained... the correlation lies in whether or not the teacher in question can compassionately convey and prescribe to YOU the proper physical articulation necessary to execute transformative healing on YOURSELF.  If they can do that, that's a good teacher...Politics shouldn't matter...Whether they are a copper or a robber shouldn't matter either. If Your teacher's art is enhancing your heart and your teacher Knows Your Heart. Why would you wanna judge your teacher's heart?

[Indiken]

20 minutes ago, Zorro Dantes said:

The higher the bricks get stacked the higher the skill level is attained... the correlation lies in whether or not the teacher in question can compassionately convey and prescribe to YOU the proper physical articulation necessary to execute transformative healing on YOURSELF.  If they can do that, that's a good teacher...Politics shouldn't matter...Whether they are a copper or a robber shouldn't matter either. If Your teacher's art is enhancing your heart and your teacher Knows Your Heart. Why would you wanna judge your teacher's heart?

 

i think that joke i did throw includes much of my view in one sentence,

 

teaching can be given in many forms...

 

are there superior things or there are simply different needs?

 

i do judge very carefully the person, who is to provide the necessary experience for me to learn,

 

teacher should take what is too much in me and give what is too little

 

teachers are students too

Edited April 28, 2021 by Indiken

[Zorro Dantes]

9 minutes ago, Indiken said:

teacher are learners too

that goes without saying...however

 

10 minutes ago, Indiken said:

teacher should take what is too much in me and give what is too little

Would that really be a compassionate move on the teacher's part?

From what I've experienced, your teacher should show you how to augment and refine that which is too much, with something that is seemingly too little...if your teacher is a sheriff and you are an outlaw, and he finds you buried up to your head in the dirt and places a hand shovel in your mouth, it is still your responsibility to dig yourself out. I would still say that qualifies as being a good teacher

[Indiken]

10 minutes ago, Zorro Dantes said:

Would that really be a compassionate move on the teacher's part?

perhaps i do misunderstand the defintion of "compassion"...

 

From what I've experienced, your teacher should show you how to augment and refine that which is too much, with something that is seemingly too little...

i do not know the truth...

 

if your teacher is a sheriff and you are an outlaw, and he finds you buried up to your head in the dirt and places a hand shovel in your mouth, it is still your responsibility to dig yourself out. I would still say that qualifies as being a good teacher

agreed. i see a possibility that an outlaw is an outlaw, because to learn...

 

my view...

Edited April 28, 2021 by Indiken

[Zorro Dantes]

9 minutes ago, Indiken said:

i do not know the truth...

 

that's great Indiken...neither do I

[Zorro Dantes]

...and I think that's exactly the point I don't think it matters to somebody who is fixxin to be a great teacher or fixxin to become a great student.

[Indiken]

1 hour ago, Zorro Dantes said:

From what I've experienced, your teacher should show you how to augment and refine that which is too much, with something that is seemingly too little...

 

i am rethinking what you did write,

 

can you provide more detail to this statement?

[Bhathen]

.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Bhathen

[Limahong]

2 hours ago, Bhathen said:

We are in their presence for a particular learning and when we start sensing the path that they have yet to cross,

it is time to go forward in my journey and be thankful for what has been dissolved or been created.

 

 

when lessons are well learnt

~ a student will be his/her

own best teacher...?

 

 

 

[Limahong]

On 4/29/2021 at 12:32 AM, Indiken said:

 

perhaps i do misunderstand the definition of "compassion"...

 

 

 

 

 

[stirling]

On 4/25/2021 at 9:31 AM, forestofemptiness said:

No doubt we mean very different things by the term “enlightenment.” But of course, many people subscribe to #2.

Perhaps? In the simplest terms, what I mean is permanent and persistent insight into the non-dual nature of reality. This would be what lies beyond the dropping away of the "self" view. Beyond there appears to be an infinite scope for refinement of the understanding.

 

An Arhat is enlightened, but is not a Buddha. Is this the distinction you mean to make?