Relationship advice

[VELLY]

On 4/26/2021 at 1:04 PM, con. said:

 

That's what I thought. Talk to her.

If you can discuss the things said in this thread with her, honestly and on equal terms, and you come out of it as a couple, marriage might be an option.

Otherwise it seems as if your question implies you have already decided what you feel to be the right thing to do, right?

 

  Hide contents

Plus: sex will be much better this way. Eye to eye. I promise.

 

I will try to contact her and see what happens. But as most people say I'm thinking about dropping the idea. Hoping to find someone more beautiful than her.

 

It is not necessary that if she is beautiful then sex will be more enjoyable with her. Am I right ?

[S:C]

When you are marrying you should ask yourself: do you believe you are going to enjoy talking with this woman into your old age? The best foundation is friendship and shared values. Romantic love is fleeting.

 

Ask youself, if you would still care for her if she would be (at a certain time for a certain time or for longer) unable to take care of herself like in illness, age, insanity, fading beauty, inability to give to you anything and unable to please you in the way you seem to desire so much, sexually. 

 

Dependency is destructive for both of the partners and the relationship. Of course my perspective is different, as I am speaking in the perspective of a self sufficient woman, one who is not in direct need of a partner, neither financially nor emotionally. Thankfulness might be a reason to marry, but in my opinion it is not a good one and shouldn't be the only one.

 

Shared values, deep friendship and common worldview might be what I would consider.

 

Still, I once was in a similar situation, like the woman, you think you love. Turned out, I felt caged in that other part of the world and couldn't acclimatize and realized my partner saw in me, just what he wanted to see, but never saw myself, even after being with me for five years. When your partner (in that case me, in your case her) cannot provide you with what you want, romantic love ends very soon and turns into something very ugly, in my opinion.

 

My guess is you are far away from actually loving this person, you are hormonally attracted to her.

You will want to consider if that is a good reason for marriage.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by liberale.ironikerin
clarification

[Nungali]

On 25/04/2021 at 6:01 PM, VELLY said:

Hi community,

I have a short story to tell and one request that please don't judge me. I know that I can get very useful advice here because many of you have read great scriptures and some of the wisest people on internet can be found here.

 

I was in a relationship with a girl for last 8 months. She was from a conservative family and her mixing with boys was not liked. I was in relationship with her for last 8 months. Recently, I got to know she has been in a relationship with some other boy also for last 5 years. So she was cheating me and also the other guy. Her past is shady and has two or three relationships like this in the past.

 

When I got to know about the other boy I was so furious and wanted to take revenge in some way. But a wise lady suggested me to control my anger and wait for a few days. I did the same but somehow I could not stop thinking about revenge and finally told everything to her mother. She was beaten and scolded, though I insisted to her mother that please don't punish her and let her free. Tbh, I wanted an end to this story so I thought that may be her mother will marry her with that boy and I will make my mind understand that she is no more mine. But things happened the other way. Her mother called me in the evening and said to me if I will marry her daughter. I didn't say yes but I know she is never going to marry her daughter with that person and I am always a option for them because I am highly educated than her and also earning a lot more.

 

Now my question is I am totally blinded by the beauty of that girl. She has become like a priceless possession for me and I want her at all cost. Until I have that choice to marry her I can't stop thinking about her. May be I sound foolish but that's the true story. I sometimes think what if she stays with me for a short time (if cheats me) ,in any case relationships are not absolute in nature. Couples cheat each other so many times in life. Would I be wrong if I decide to marry her? because in any case she is not going to get married with her choice of boy. Moreover, I know her and love her too so please enlighten me on this situation. 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

I'm guessing you are from India . ?

 

 Jeeze !  Where to start with this one . 

 

I will read through the rest of the thread first to see what type of punishments are dished out to you .

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

On 25/04/2021 at 10:57 PM, VELLY said:

My age is 27(M) and she is 21(F). I am from India. We belong to different religions Hinduism(my) and Sikhism (her).

 

 

 I knew it !

 

I am surprised people had to even ask !

 

Boy are you gonna hate my 'advise'  !

[Nungali]

On 25/04/2021 at 6:01 PM, VELLY said:

Hi community,

I have a short story to tell and one request that please don't judge me. I know that I can get very useful advice here because many of you have read great scriptures and some of the wisest people on internet can be found here.

 

I was in a relationship with a girl for last 8 months. She was from a conservative family and her mixing with boys was not liked. I was in relationship with her for last 8 months. Recently, I got to know she has been in a relationship with some other boy also for last 5 years. So she was cheating me and also the other guy. Her past is shady and has two or three relationships like this in the past.

 

So ?

 

In my experience , that is fairly common . What ? You have been living in an expectational  fairy story ? 

 

I am not sure what you mean by  'in relationship ' ? I suppose you mean she was having sex with someone other than you .  I am wondering if  this 'exclusivity' you seek was previously agreed upon or just assumed , personally or general social context . I have seen that a lot ; just because a couple can 'fall together'   one or both can assume that a whole lot of parameters are in place that where never agreed upon .

 

I am wondering  how 'shady' your past in this regard is  ? 

 

 

On 25/04/2021 at 6:01 PM, VELLY said:

 

When I got to know about the other boy I was so furious and wanted to take revenge in some way.

 

Again,  why ?   If you really loved her ... oh wait  .....   silly me , thats not in the recipe is it  ?  You just want to use her for sex .

 

The guy might not even know you exist  ( until you rantingly confront him swinging punches )  ...

 

I suggest you meditate on and look deeply into WHY you feel such anger  .

 

 

 

 

On 25/04/2021 at 6:01 PM, VELLY said:

 

 

 

But a wise lady suggested me to control my anger and wait for a few days. I did the same but somehow I could not stop thinking about revenge and finally told everything to her mother.

 

Ooooo  ... you spiteful little  ...... 

 

 

On 25/04/2021 at 6:01 PM, VELLY said:

 

 

 

She was beaten and scolded, though I insisted to her mother that please don't punish her and let her free.

 

Its still on you though , you where a cause for that beating .

 

On 25/04/2021 at 6:01 PM, VELLY said:

 

Tbh, I wanted an end to this story so I thought that may be her mother will marry her with that boy and I will make my mind understand that she is no more mine. But things happened the other way. Her mother called me in the evening and said to me if I will marry her daughter. I didn't say yes but I know she is never going to marry her daughter with that person and I am always a option for them because I am highly educated than her and also earning a lot more.

 

" Here is my advice from " reading great scripture " ;

 

" There is no bond that can unite the divided  but love - all else is a curse ! "

 

Continue to carry on like this and you will be cursing yourself .

 

On 25/04/2021 at 6:01 PM, VELLY said:

 

Now my question is I am totally blinded by the beauty of that girl.

 

yes, and by your own jealous nature , your own sexual immaturity, your lack of insight and unbalanced passions  , your lack of consideration .

 

Look, I know what people are going to say about my response  , and your culture and expectations and upbringing  - yatta yatta blah blah

 

But you did come here seeking advice, with an open question in a forum that contains  advice from wise westerners    

 

 

On 25/04/2021 at 6:01 PM, VELLY said:

 

 

 

She has become like a priceless possession for me

 

 

Go buy a Royal Enfield instated , mush LESS trouble . ( and it comes with a key, so you can be the only person that rides it ! )

 

 

 

On 25/04/2021 at 6:01 PM, VELLY said:

and I want her at all cost.

 

Really ?   Interesting ,  how far would you go,   $ 1000 ,  $ 10, 000 , stealing , murder  imprisonment  ?

 

Maybe we could do a deal ?

 

Spoiler

 

 

On 25/04/2021 at 6:01 PM, VELLY said:

 

 

Until I have that choice to marry her I can't stop thinking about her. May be I sound foolish but that's the true story. I sometimes think what if she stays with me for a short time (if cheats me) ,in any case relationships are not absolute in nature. Couples cheat each other so many times in life.

 

Good that you realise this .  One day you might see it not so much as 'cheating' but people being pushed into unknown or unfair contracts , or agreements they feel they had to make becasue honesty  was lacking  or maybe the need for variety and boredom .

 

You do realise this storm of feelings inside you is partially triggered by your own  unbalanced possesional psychology and a mix of  volatile chemical signals inside you, stimulated by reactions with this woman   - 'infatuation'   ( aka 'love' ... of that 'type' ) and it could just 'switch off' and you might 'not feel it any more '   in the future , or even , at any moment .  Susch is the volaatile nature of such reactions .

 

 

 

On 25/04/2021 at 6:01 PM, VELLY said:

 

Would I be wrong if I decide to marry her?

 

 

IMO , under these conditions

 

YES

You both could be heading to a life of misery .

 

 

 

On 25/04/2021 at 6:01 PM, VELLY said:

 

 

because in any case she is not going to get married with her choice of boy. Moreover, I know her and love her too so please enlighten me on this situation. 

 

 would suggest you try and find a different type of love , one that isnt associated with  using the 'object of you love'  as a possession, a jealousy trigger,  a sex machine,  someone you 'tell on to their mother '  ... I mean, man , what a friggen mess 

 

 

On 25/04/2021 at 6:01 PM, VELLY said:

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

Are you sure about that ?

[liminal_luke]

@Nungali  OK, but tell us what you really think...

[Apech]

@Nungali

 

I thought a Royal Enfield was a rifle ... 

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

@Nungali  OK, but tell us what you really think...

 

Oh, I dont really think any of that all .

 

The girl's mother paid me to post that . 

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, Apech said:

@Nungali

 

I thought a Royal Enfield was a rifle ... 

 

Concerning you ...  that may be more appropriate .

[Nungali]

 

 

 

It w

 

as a thing back then ;

 

 

Considering the  above ' manly ' desires, wants and machinations , I still maintain that what the lad really wants is a motorcycle .

 

 

   

 

Further consider , its got all the things you want with none of the problems ! ;  No marriage , just an initial purchase  and cheap maintenance .  No mother to deal with . Any colour your choose . Look at those curves , beautiful ! Permissible to 'fall in love with' yet legally 'own' . A bouncy ride .  Get tired of it ? Trade it in for a younger model .   Every so often you get to insert a nozzle into  it .    and  , at the same time , you can escape  on it ! 

[liminal_luke]

7 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

Oh, I dont really think any of that all .

 

The girl's mother paid me to post that . 

 

I´ve got to hand it to you (and the girl´s mother) Nungali.  Much of what you said I agree with. It´s pretty much what I would say if I was willing to just put it all out there.  I tone myself down because I´m thinking about how I´m going to be received and trying to make my words more palatable and easily digested.  But I think there´s virtue in not pussyfooting around.  Good on ya.

[Taomeow]

Affairs of the heart are the weirdest.

 

My mom liked to tell me this story.  In her youth, she was friends with a group of girls in the neighborhood, and one of them was courted incessantly by this guy whose attention, however, was not appreciated.  The object of his infatuation laughed it off and "treated him as a friend" and still he wasn't giving up, only ramping up his efforts to win her heart.  All her friends would criticize the girl for her cruelty -- if you don't want him, tell him so and tell him in so many words, don't go hanging out with him, don't keep torturing him with hope.  So one day this girl gathered her girlfriends around and told them, I think he is going to propose, can you do me a favor?  Tell him that I asked you all to tell him not to.  Tell him, as friends, that it will save him the humiliation and pain of being rejected, for reject him I will.  I don't want to hurt him, but I would never marry him, not in a million years.  Tell him I said that.  Please.  

 

So the girls accosted the guy and gave him the message, verbatim.  Personally I think it was a lot more humiliating for him to get the news from five or six females at once rather than just one, but so it went.  He nodded, thanked for the message, and said, I'll take my chances anyway.  The next day, he proposed.  The girl accepted.  Yup.  No one saw it coming -- probably including her.

 

They're still married over 60 years later.  I don't know what the morale of the story is, except for my opening line.  Oh, and my mom told the story as an example of how any third party's advice is likely to fall on deaf ears in the affairs of the heart.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Taomeow

[liminal_luke]

37 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 Oh, and my mom told the story as an example of how any third party's advice is likely to fall on deaf ears in the affairs of the heart.

 

So true!  My own partner is a much younger, career-challenged (to put it mildly), schizoaffective guy who once thought I was literally the devil and, worse, doesn´t have a college education.  You can probably guess the kind of relationship advice I´ve gotten over the years.  And yet we´re been together a long time -- 13 difficult yet loving years and counting -- and I wouldn´t have it any other way.  

 

I´m aware that my own relationship advice will almost certainly fall on deaf ears, but I give it anyway because giving it is so much fun.

Edited April 30, 2021 by liminal_luke

[VELLY]

18 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

So ?

 

In my experience , that is fairly common . What ? You have been living in an expectational  fairy story ? 

 

I am not sure what you mean by  'in relationship ' ? I suppose you mean she was having sex with someone other than you .  I am wondering if  this 'exclusivity' you seek was previously agreed upon or just assumed , personally or general social context . I have seen that a lot ; just because a couple can 'fall together'   one or both can assume that a whole lot of parameters are in place that where never agreed upon .

 

I am wondering  how 'shady' your past in this regard is  ? 

 

 

 

Again,  why ?   If you really loved her ... oh wait  .....   silly me , thats not in the recipe is it  ?  You just want to use her for sex .

 

The guy might not even know you exist  ( until you rantingly confront him swinging punches )  ...

 

I suggest you meditate on and look deeply into WHY you feel such anger  .

 

 

 

 

 

Ooooo  ... you spiteful little  ...... 

 

 

 

Its still on you though , you where a cause for that beating .

 

 

" Here is my advice from " reading great scripture " ;

 

" There is no bond that can unite the divided  but love - all else is a curse ! "

 

Continue to carry on like this and you will be cursing yourself .

 

 

yes, and by your own jealous nature , your own sexual immaturity, your lack of insight and unbalanced passions  , your lack of consideration .

 

Look, I know what people are going to say about my response  , and your culture and expectations and upbringing  - yatta yatta blah blah

 

But you did come here seeking advice, with an open question in a forum that contains  advice from wise westerners    

 

 

 

 

Go buy a Royal Enfield instated , mush LESS trouble . ( and it comes with a key, so you can be the only person that rides it ! )

 

 

 

 

Really ?   Interesting ,  how far would you go,   $ 1000 ,  $ 10, 000 , stealing , murder  imprisonment  ?

 

Maybe we could do a deal ?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Good that you realise this .  One day you might see it not so much as 'cheating' but people being pushed into unknown or unfair contracts , or agreements they feel they had to make becasue honesty  was lacking  or maybe the need for variety and boredom .

 

You do realise this storm of feelings inside you is partially triggered by your own  unbalanced possesional psychology and a mix of  volatile chemical signals inside you, stimulated by reactions with this woman   - 'infatuation'   ( aka 'love' ... of that 'type' ) and it could just 'switch off' and you might 'not feel it any more '   in the future , or even , at any moment .  Susch is the volaatile nature of such reactions .

 

 

 

 

IMO , under these conditions

 

YES

You both could be heading to a life of misery .

 

 

 

 

 would suggest you try and find a different type of love , one that isnt associated with  using the 'object of you love'  as a possession, a jealousy trigger,  a sex machine,  someone you 'tell on to their mother '  ... I mean, man , what a friggen mess 

 

 

 

 

Are you sure about that ?

Great, won't you say anything about the girl ?

 

It's not like that I can't digest what you all said about my sexual immaturity, possessive mentality, unbalanced passions and so on. 

I just could never understand the so open attitude of westerners towards sex and cheating. May be you can shed some light?

 

It's generally considered here that 

 

"Relationship is not something which you make just for fun. It's sacred and loyalty should be practised at all cost. ( Wanna have fun do something else hiking, rafting, painting friggin everything but cheating is wrong)."

 

May be I have all your mentioned issues that is why I mentioned many times "I may sound foolish". I am not closed to criticism but I don't want anyone passes a judgement on me.

 

I asked that girl many times that you can tell me if you have someone else in life. She swore many times but never gave me a hint of it. I had talked about that girl with my mother and sister already. It's a big thing in here as love marriages are generally frowned upon by people. She could have stopped me right there because I did all that asking her permission. I took a risk for her and what she gave in return was betrayal. I don't have any problem with her past and I don't care if she has done sex with anyone. I just think what she did was wrong and I have now so much trust issues with everyone. 

 

I just don't believe any girl anymore. 

 

What I did by telling her parents was just to teach her a lesson. She could have faced a very big problem if she could have gone to someone else with more sick mentality than me. 

 

Death is not always physical sometimes people kill you mentally and emotionally. It's what I experienced.

 

You are always welcome and really some of your points are remarkably perfect. 

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I´ve got to hand it to you (and the girl´s mother) Nungali.  Much of what you said I agree with. It´s pretty much what I would say if I was willing to just put it all out there.  I tone myself down because I´m thinking about how I´m going to be received and trying to make my words more palatable and easily digested.  But I think there´s virtue in not pussyfooting around.  Good on ya.

 

 

I have never really understood , pussyfooting  

 

Perhaps I should read up on it ? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(  I dig them sexy space chicks

 

 

 

[centertime]

5 hours ago, Taomeow said:

Affairs of the heart are the weirdest.

 

My mom liked to tell me this story.  In her youth, she was friends with a group of girls in the neighborhood, and one of them was courted incessantly by this guy whose attention, however, was not appreciated.  The object of his infatuation laughed it off and "treated him as a friend" and still he wasn't giving up, only ramping up his efforts to win her heart.  All her friends would criticize the girl for her cruelty -- if you don't want him, tell him so and tell him in so many words, don't go hanging out with him, don't keep torturing him with hope.  So one day this girl gathered her girlfriends around and told them, I think he is going to propose, can you do me a favor?  Tell him that I asked you all to tell him not to.  Tell him, as friends, that it will save him the humiliation and pain of being rejected, for reject him I will.  I don't want to hurt him, but I would never marry him, not in a million years.  Tell him I said that.  Please.  

 

So the girls accosted the guy and gave him the message, verbatim.  Personally I think it was a lot more humiliating for him to get the news from five or six females at once rather than just one, but so it went.  He nodded, thanked for the message, and said, I'll take my chances anyway.  The next day, he proposed.  The girl accepted.  Yup.  No one saw it coming -- probably including her.

 

They're still married over 60 years later.  I don't know what the morale of the story is, except for my opening line.  Oh, and my mom told the story as an example of how any third party's advice is likely to fall on deaf ears in the affairs of the heart.

What are these called? Games people play. My friend told me that women like tough games/guys. What some women do... is reject the guy.. to test the guy if he is strong enough to withstand rejection.

He did.. So he was accepted.... the alpha male.

The guy knew her better, her nature,, that she did herself, her shadow

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by centertime

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, VELLY said:

Great, won't you say anything about the girl ?

 

Won't you say anything about the motorbike , I bet you would love to ride that BSA up there  ... but it looks like I caant distract you here ( if you where my son, right now we would be standing next to one, that I had bought you, in hope of distracting you .

 

Obviously, I knew there would be a cultural divide here .  My opinions and experience are  probably irrelevant for someone in a Place like India , and especially considering a topic like marriage !

 

- but let's slog on .

 

 

 

3 hours ago, VELLY said:

 

It's not like that I can't digest what you all said about my sexual immaturity, possessive mentality, unbalanced passions and so on. 

I just could never understand the so open attitude of westerners towards sex and cheating. May be you can shed some light?

 

Not really, becasue most westerners are also hung up about this .  But I can give you my perspective .  many are caught between a sexual freedom of expression and old age conditioning , so its rather a mess, and often covered up with  confusions, lies and trickery. so I expect confusion and  collusion  and all sorts of stuff . 

 

The other side is, I just sorta know whaats going on , I men, if you are really close to someone , you should know . One woman I had a relationship with used to talk in her sleep    oh, the juice    I told her one day that she talked in her sleep, she was horrified  " What about  "   ... me;  " Ohhh ... everything   "

 

Probably  my faavourite one was ; new 'GF' , takes me to  ( her ) family dinner to meet them . Mother aasks , over dinner, how we got together , GF tells this story about how " We wet to this beach and where walking along and all of a sudden he took my hand, I was surprised and looked into his eyes,  and from that moment, I knew we where in love, then we went aand had some lunch aand he bought me a beautiful bunch of flowers  ..... "  The family is looking at me and smiling  ....

 

Me ;  Thaaat a nice story ... but ermm ... that wasnt me . "

 

Her ;  " What  ? "

 

" Thata wasn' t me , we didnt  get together like that . "

 

Her .....  

 

Family   ....      . 

 

 

3 hours ago, VELLY said:

 

It's generally considered here that 

 

"Relationship is not something which you make just for fun. It's sacred and loyalty should be practised at all cost. ( Wanna have fun do something else hiking, rafting, painting friggin everything but cheating is wrong)."

 

Yes, but you see, I believe that all  of life is sacred and loyal ( 'loyal' to 'big mum'  , and 'loyal' to what she likes to see    )  - I partake of  'strange  and libertarian religion , a religion of joy and freedom , so my outlooks will be different .  Especially regarding relationships ;

 

Love is the Law, love under will .   Not love restricted by jealousies , social norms, legal conditions and contracts

 

" There is love , and there is love "  - or love  and lovers   

 

                        

 

 

3 hours ago, VELLY said:

 

May be I have all your mentioned issues that is why I mentioned many times "I may sound foolish". I am not closed to criticism but I don't want anyone passes a judgement on me.

 

I asked that girl many times that you can tell me if you have someone else in life. She swore many times but never gave me a hint of it.

 

Thats  rather difficult , to ask someone directly and they lie , but, in that situation, I suppose its difficult , but still, no excuse .  If you feel that was really bad, you should not consider marriage  as  honesty is now in question .

 

To me , this could apply to other issues as well , many people  , many , are habitual liars  ... of course they dont see it like that  and most choose to use 'pussy foot terms '      . These sort of things , I feel need to be sorted out  early on, before one starts a serious  relationship. Thats probably a difference in the west , since we are more sexually liberated , sex isnt tied so much into marriage nor necessarily 'relationship , One can explore sex on a more casual footing, then one can 'get to know' the person on this level,  how they react,  respond , manage  things like truth and jealousy , etc .

 

 

3 hours ago, VELLY said:

 

 

I had talked about that girl with my mother and sister already.

 

I hoped you laso talked to  man about it .

 

 

3 hours ago, VELLY said:

 

It's a big thing in here as love marriages are generally frowned upon by people. She could have stopped me right there because I did all that asking her permission. I took a risk for her and what she gave in return was betrayal. I don't have any problem with her past and I don't care if she has done sex with anyone. I just think what she did was wrong and I have now so much trust issues with everyone. 

 

Yes, considering the details  I agree, that is  a difficult outcome regardless of the subject being discussed . But it works like this :

 

- do I lie, or do I risk everything by telling the truth ?   Its that avoid  BS saying  - all is fair in love  or  ( as they have or recently had in some countries )  "  you are excused for your crime as it was a ;crime of passion "  ( well, it applied for men , not sure  about women ) , I think , somehow, inside, people justify their 'trickery' or lies with their passions .  It makes relationships a tangle !

 

I was at a party talking to a friend bout certain difficulties in relationships .  He goes : But I did  tell her everything, I was honest, but still, she ..... "

 

and this woman walks past , over hearing and says to us  " Oh dear,     have not you boys  learned NOT to tell the truth to your girl friends  yet  , just tell them what they want to hear !  "

 

Me ;  "  But  ..... you are MY girl friend   .  "      

 

 

 

3 hours ago, VELLY said:

 

I just don't believe any girl anymore. 

 

Good . Now hold that and remove any animosity about it,   Expect relationships to be  full of all sorts of such stuff .

 

Thing is , if one knows its usually like this , honesty and other good traits are a  pleasant surprise when found  .... but dont expect it  everywhere , you will only end up bitter and disappointed . I know she   said  certain things , but in my experience , forget the words and promises , they are  empty, go on  a persons actions .

 

 

 

3 hours ago, VELLY said:

 

What I did by telling her parents was just to teach her a lesson. She could have faced a very big problem if she could have gone to someone else with more sick mentality than me. 

 

Hmmmm  ...  

 

 

3 hours ago, VELLY said:

 

Death is not always physical sometimes people kill you mentally and emotionally. It's what I experienced.

 

You sound passionate . That can be good , directed in the right way .  The thing is, that with this kind of drama , we do not actually die , but live on, eventually, to live and love another day . You will get over it, and hopefully distil  valuable lesson out of it .

 

You can also probably expect some painful accidents ,  long recovery times and or sickness and disease during your life , on a physical mental and emotional level , that is part of life too , dont let these experiences ruin your life , nor other experiences ruin your ability to have good relationships .

 

 

3 hours ago, VELLY said:

 

You are always welcome and really some of your points are remarkably perfect. 

 

 

Sorry if I have  'Popped you ' too much .;

 

 

 

[liminal_luke]

26 minutes ago, centertime said:

What are these called? Games people play. My friend told me that women like tough games/guys. What some women do... is reject the guy.. to test the guy if he is strong enough to withstand rejection.

He did.. So he was accepted.... the alpha male.

The guy knew her better, her nature,, that she did herself, her shadow

 

 

You hear this kind of stuff a lot. When people talk about how they think relationships work in a general way they sometimes throw around phrases like Tough Guys, Alpha Males....Games People Play.  Meh...to me that´s reducing the mystery of love to someone´s warped view of gender politics.  It´s an attempt to understand what brings people together when really it´s much more honest and true to just say we don´t know.  We just don´t know.

 

 

[Apech]

10 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

You hear this kind of stuff a lot. When people talk about how they think relationships work in a general way they sometimes throw around phrases like Tough Guys, Alpha Males....Games People Play.  Meh...to me that´s reducing the mystery of love to someone´s warped view of gender politics.  It´s an attempt to understand what brings people together when really it´s much more honest and true to just say we don´t know.  We just don´t know.

 

 

 

The basic problem is that Americans don't know how to pronounce Scarborough ... many a relationship has been rent asunder by this truth.

 

 

[Taomeow]

27 minutes ago, centertime said:

What are these called? Games people play. My friend told me that women like tough games/guys. What some women do... is reject the guy.. to test the guy if he is strong enough to withstand rejection.

He did.. So he was accepted.... the alpha male.

The guy knew her better, her nature,, that she did herself, her shadow

 

 

Sometimes.  I don't think it was the case in this case, but I wasn't there. 

Here's where I "was there" and know the motives better:

I was 19 and crazy in love with my boyfriend.  Just bonkers.  But I never felt secure in our relationship, because he liked to play games.  Oh man.  It would take me a whole book to write them up.  And he could too -- he was insanely popular, and not only with girls of the legal age but with his female high school students (he was a young teacher).  Those fracking shameless 16-year-olds would do things like, e.g., spy on me, find out where I lived, then show up under my window in the middle of the night and start yelling drunken insults, calling me all kinds of horrible names and screaming for my parents to do something about my (!!!) behavior.  Stuff like that.  I was afraid to tell my boyfriend that it happened because, believe it or not, I was afraid he'd just laugh the whole thing off -- or worse, feel flattered that girls are fighting for him with no holds barred.  And it's only one example -- there was always something going on with him that kept me on my toes.

 

So I broke up with him -- way before I was ready to -- not to, as you put it, "test him" but because I was tired of feeling insecure, of never knowing what to expect, whether to trust him.  I won't tell the rest of the story, but just to illustrate that "women play games" looking for an "alpha male" is not necessarily the only scenario.   Two can play the game, and the nature of the game may vary.              

[VELLY]

4 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

Sometimes.  I don't think it was the case in this case, but I wasn't there. 

Here's where I "was there" and know the motives better:

I was 19 and crazy in love with my boyfriend.  Just bonkers.  But I never felt secure in our relationship, because he liked to play games.  Oh man.  It would take me a whole book to write them up.  And he could too -- he was insanely popular, and not only with girls of the legal age but with his female high school students (he was a young teacher).  Those fracking shameless 16-year-olds would do things like, e.g., spy on me, find out where I lived, then show up under my window in the middle of the night and start yelling drunken insults, calling me all kinds of horrible names and screaming for my parents to do something about my (!!!) behavior.  Stuff like that.  I was afraid to tell my boyfriend that it happened because, believe it or not, I was afraid he'd just laugh the whole thing off -- or worse, feel flattered that girls are fighting for him with no holds barred.  And it's only one example -- there was always something going on with him that kept me on my toes.

 

So I broke up with him -- way before I was ready to -- not to, as you put it, "test him" but because I was tired of feeling insecure, of never knowing what to expect, whether to trust him.  I won't tell the rest of the story, but just to illustrate that "women play games" looking for an "alpha male" is not necessarily the only scenario.   Two can play the game, and the nature of the game may vary.              

The nature of game may vary. I think you are perfectly right. That's why every relationship is unique.

 

Taomeow, some of the games may be pretty dirty then. Would it be correct to say then that 'everything is fair in love and war' ? 

 

In developing nations crime related to women is so much more and it's because the males ( majority) justify their criminal acts saying such proverbs. I do believe it's very much wrong. But there should be some way out. 

 

Is sexual expression of freedom that way?

 

Then adultery would be justified. I think it's too messed up. 

[Taomeow]

12 minutes ago, VELLY said:

The nature of game may vary. I think you are perfectly right. That's why every relationship is unique.

 

Taomeow, some of the games may be pretty dirty then. Would it be correct to say then that 'everything is fair in love and war' ? 

 

 

No, I don't think so.  Dirty games are sick, and the outcome of screwed up developmental history, of neurotic, unfair, unfeeling upbringing -- in the family, in society, in the midst of cultural monstrosities that institutionalize abuse and maintain it as a norm.  People grow up twisted and starved for love -- but because they are twisted and have no other frame of reference for human relationships, the way they seek love (or reject it in favor of unfeeling stances) also comes out all distorted and abnormal.  "All is fair" only in psychopathic or sociopathic consciousness.  Not in love and not even in war.

 

19 minutes ago, VELLY said:

 

In developing nations crime related to women is so much more and it's because the males ( majority) justify their criminal acts saying such proverbs. I do believe it's very much wrong. But there should be some way out. 

 

Is sexual expression of freedom that way?

 

Then adultery would be justified. I think it's too messed up. 

   

I don't think sexual expression of freedom solves that problem because, again, in a distorted society with skewed family and cultural values it will also manifest in all kinds of unhealthy ways.  By itself it solves nothing.  But at least arriving at the conclusion that it should not serve as another pretext for abuse and violence against women specifically (while being deemed permissible for men) is a step in the right direction.  Getting rid of the double standard is a step in the right direction.    

[centertime]

7 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

Sometimes.  I don't think it was the case in this case, but I wasn't there. 

Here's where I "was there" and know the motives better:

I was 19 and crazy in love with my boyfriend.  Just bonkers.  But I never felt secure in our relationship, because he liked to play games.  Oh man.  It would take me a whole book to write them up.  And he could too -- he was insanely popular, and not only with girls of the legal age but with his female high school students (he was a young teacher).  Those fracking shameless 16-year-olds would do things like, e.g., spy on me, find out where I lived, then show up under my window in the middle of the night and start yelling drunken insults, calling me all kinds of horrible names and screaming for my parents to do something about my (!!!) behavior.  Stuff like that.  I was afraid to tell my boyfriend that it happened because, believe it or not, I was afraid he'd just laugh the whole thing off -- or worse, feel flattered that girls are fighting for him with no holds barred.  And it's only one example -- there was always something going on with him that kept me on my toes.

 

So I broke up with him -- way before I was ready to -- not to, as you put it, "test him" but because I was tired of feeling insecure, of never knowing what to expect, whether to trust him.  I won't tell the rest of the story, but just to illustrate that "women play games" looking for an "alpha male" is not necessarily the only scenario.   Two can play the game, and the nature of the game may vary.              

Yes, not... The other possibility is ...I forgot to mention..

"Oh My god he loves me so much.. He still wants to marry me despite how I treated him"

 

[VELLY]

3 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

No, I don't think so.  Dirty games are sick, and the outcome of screwed up developmental history, of neurotic, unfair, unfeeling upbringing -- in the family, in society, in the midst of cultural monstrosities that institutionalize abuse and maintain it as a norm.  People grow up twisted and starved for love -- but because they are twisted and have no other frame of reference for human relationships, the way they seek love (or reject it in favor of unfeeling stances) also comes out all distorted and abnormal.  "All is fair" only in psychopathic or sociopathic consciousness.  Not in love and not even in war.

 

What kind of societal, family and cultural monstrosities are we talking about. Aren't these institutions for the benefit of humans?

 

 

3 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

   

I don't think sexual expression of freedom solves that problem because, again, in a distorted society with skewed family and cultural values it will also manifest in all kinds of unhealthy ways.  By itself it solves nothing.  But at least arriving at the conclusion that it should not serve as another pretext for abuse and violence against women specifically (while being deemed permissible for men) is a step in the right direction.  Getting rid of the double standard is a step in the right direction.    

 

I think it happens because if a man did sex with a virgin or a married woman he did not need to face any consequences, whereas in the past a female had to bear all the consequences. She had to face hardships of pregnancy, moreover it also lead to mixing of races or castes that's why I think women were more severely punished.

 

Men were considered perpetrators, and it was women who needed to protect their chastity. I think it's kind of victim blaming where women were fooled (seduced) and also they were the ones who got the punishment. I mean to say it's wrong to mistreat the weak; both gender should get equal punishment (or a chance to penance).

 

In the modern times such cases dont exist hence double standards should not be there. Its a step in the right direction.

 

Lies and betrayal should not be there in a relationship. Exclusivity is not necessary (should not be demanded also unless married) but at least someone should not make fake promises regarding it.

 

 

 

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, VELLY said:

The nature of game may vary. I think you are perfectly right. That's why every relationship is unique.

 

Taomeow, some of the games may be pretty dirty then. Would it be correct to say then that 'everything is fair in love and war' ? 

 

In developing nations crime related to women is so much more and it's because the males ( majority) justify their criminal acts saying such proverbs. I do believe it's very much wrong. But there should be some way out. 

 

Is sexual expression of freedom that way?

 

Then adultery would be justified. I think it's too messed up. 

 

Agreed Velly , I already said ( IMO ) 'all is fair in love and ....  "   is BS .  So is leniency  for a  'crime of passion ' .

 

But I like this one ; "Variety is the spice of life . "  ... the uniqueness  of it all , if one appreciates that .

 

Sometimes I am absolutely  bamboozled by it all , just one example :  I am sitting with two female friends , one asks for a back rub, so while she sits there I go behind her and rub / stroke her back  ( I knew it was not a 'therapeutic ' rub she she was asking for ) .  The other watches and when I am finished she asks me if I can do it to her , so I do .  She seemed to enjoy it . When I finished she said

" You know, no one has ever touched me like that before ."

 

Me :       But you  are 38, married and have two children . "

 

Her;  "   I  know !  "    

 

..... what the hell is going on out there  ?