An inside view of the situation in India

[liminal_luke]

Maybe I should of realized it on my own, but I didn´t know that Indians experienced pictures of funeral pyres as disrespectful.  Thanks to dwai for bringing it to my attention.  I think it´s important to be culturally sensitive, perhaps especially for journalists who, by reputation anyway, are often more concerned about "getting the story" than honoring the dignity of those involved.  

 

It´s difficult to impute motive to others with any accuracy.  Everybody perceives the world through the lens of their experience and the stories we believe about ourselves and others are not always 100% accurate.  I think it´s important to be gentle with each other.  Nobody is perfect but most of us aren´t intentionally evil.  (A few might be but not most.)  It´s human to bother other people and to feel bothered.  The best we can do is express how we feel so that others know.  Doing so honors relationships and our humanity.  

[Apech]

49 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Maybe I should of realized it on my own, but I didn´t know that Indians experienced pictures of funeral pyres as disrespectful.  Thanks to dwai for bringing it to my attention.  I think it´s important to be culturally sensitive, perhaps especially for journalists who, by reputation anyway, are often more concerned about "getting the story" than honoring the dignity of those involved.  

 

It´s difficult to impute motive to others with any accuracy.  Everybody perceives the world through the lens of their experience and the stories we believe about ourselves and others are not always 100% accurate.  I think it´s important to be gentle with each other.  Nobody is perfect but most of us aren´t intentionally evil.  (A few might be but not most.)  It´s human to bother other people and to feel bothered.  The best we can do is express how we feel so that others know.  Doing so honors relationships and our humanity.  

 

I wonder what it means to be evil?  

 

(only answer if you can be bothered :) )

[liminal_luke]

9 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

I wonder what it means to be evil?  

 

(only answer if you can be bothered )

 

I haven´t pondered evil deeply, but I´ll take a stab, so to speak.  Evil is hurting other people for the purpose of seeing them hurt.  Sociopaths can be evil.  This is opposed to hurting other people because we´re careless, ignorant, narcissistically unaware of other´s feelings, insensitive, opportunistic -- ie normal human misbehavior..  To me, evil is the desire to do bad in the world.

Edited May 7, 2021 by liminal_luke

[natural]

20 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

I wonder what it means to be evil?  

 

(only answer if you can be bothered )

 

12 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I haven´t pondered evil deeply, but I´ll take a stab, so to speak.  Evil is hurting other people for the purpose of seeing them hurt.  Sociopaths can be evil.  This is opposed to hurting other people because we´re careless, ignorant, narcissistically unaware of other´s feelings, insensitive, opportunistic -- ie normal human misbehavior..  To me, evil is the desire to do bad in the world.

Short answer see Hitler, Idi Amin, Caligula, Franco.

All in my humble opinion personify evil.

Not an inclusive list by any means...

[Taomeow]

21 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

I wonder what it means to be evil?  

 

I urge everyone to spend 19 minutes to start understanding just a tiny little bit about it.

 

This guy is not a "conspiracy theorist" (the most evil dehumanizing term that helps dispose of all non-MSM-compliant non-groupthink information and throw flat earth being a lie and two weeks to flatten the curve being a lie into the same catch-all "conspiracy theory" basket).  He is a doctor and the most cited researcher in his field in the world in history.  He doesn't use the term "evil."  He only explains, empirically, how it works in this particular situation.  The how-to of evil, so to speak.  Do give a listen.

 

 

 

 

  

[dwai]

57 minutes ago, Apech said:

I wonder what it means to be evil?

I really think it is a relative thing at one level and a psychological disease at another. 
 

Relative how? The British Raj (as an example) was a source of much pride to the English of that time. It certainly seemed to have benefited some of the citizens of England, and  certainly ushered in the industrial revolution, often on the backs of appropriated technology from India and China. 
 

On the other hand, they committed atrocities of unfathomable proportions (and yet to be fully accounted for) on Indians, and other colonized people. Churchill is as bad as, if not worse than Hitler (he was the architect of the genocide of millions of bengalis in India). Most Indians would consider both the Raj as well as Churchill evil. 
 

Yet, in the west, he is considered to be a “hero”, while Hitler is (rightly) vilified everywhere. So good and evil are relative. 
 

The psychological problem aspect is where we find the sociopaths and psychopaths — who of course kill and hurt with impunity. It is a disease of the mind/brain. We consider them evil. But similar defects when resulting in great leadership (such as successful CEOs in the business world), are celebrated and feted.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackmccullough/2019/12/09/the-psychopathic-ceo/?sh=6271ed03791e

 

Quote

According to British psychologist Kevin Dutton, the top four career choices for psychopaths are CEO, attorney, media personality and salesperson

 

[dwai]

56 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

I urge everyone to spend 19 minutes to start understanding just a tiny little bit about it.

 

This guy is not a "conspiracy theorist" (the most evil dehumanizing term that helps dispose of all non-MSM-compliant non-groupthink information and throw flat earth being a lie and two weeks to flatten the curve being a lie into the same catch-all "conspiracy theory" basket).  He is a doctor and the most cited researcher in his field in the world in history.  He doesn't use the term "evil."  He only explains, empirically, how it works in this particular situation.  The how-to of evil, so to speak.  Do give a listen.

 

 

 

 

  

There are many things in the video that make sense. But when he says there’s no evidence of asymptomatic spreaders, that’s what has caused the second wave in India according to many experts.

https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-whats-changed-in-second-wave-7289002/

 

Quote

Because an asymtomatic person, who carries the virus, would have spread the infection. In India, experts say, 80-85% of the population are asymptomatic. They continue to be the largest carrier of the virus, and in a closed indoor setting, asymptomatic person will transmit the virus even when he or she is talking. Also, asymptomatic people don’t isolate themselves in a home setting.

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by dwai

[natural]

15 minutes ago, dwai said:

I really think it is a relative thing at one level and a psychological disease at another. 
 

 Churchill is as bad as, if not worse than Hitler (he was the architect of the genocide of millions of bengalis in India). Most Indians would consider both the Raj as well as Churchill evil. 
 

Yet, in the west, he is considered to be a “hero”, while Hitler is (rightly) vilified everywhere. So good and evil are relative. 
 

 

 

 

[natural]

I hope we can agree we don't know what we don't know.

Experts either won't or can't admit that.

Colchicine a interesting chemical.

Yes, I said chemical.

Strictly speaking water is a chemical too.

 

I was aware of Colchicine in the 70's. 

Used at that time for genetic modification.

Derived from fall crocus all natural.

 

As was / is nicotine.

Food for thought?

[old3bob]

11 minutes ago, natural said:

I hope we can agree we don't know what we don't know.

Experts either won't or can't admit that.

Colchicine a interesting chemical.

Yes, I said chemical.

Strictly speaking water is a chemical too.

 

I was aware of Colchicine in the 70's. 

Used at that time for genetic modification.

Derived from fall crocus all natural.

 

As was / is nicotine.

Food for thought?

 

same as the gout medicine?  (and way overpriced)

[old3bob]

evil may be relative to humans but if is relative to Dharma which is derived from the 
"Source" then kiss your behind goodbye...

[liminal_luke]

2 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this, Taomeow.  Kind of mindblowing.  It leads to some obvious questions like...why has there been a blackout on outpatient treatment options and a near total focus on vaccines?  Who benefits?  Is this just about vaccine profits for pharmaceutical companies or is there another layer to this?  

 

I heard you when you said you´ve sworn off this topic so no worries if you´d rather not provide answers.  Just wanted to share the questions I´m left with.  

Edited May 7, 2021 by liminal_luke

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Apech said:

 

I wonder what it means to be evil?  

 

(only answer if you can be bothered )

 

I m not sure either, but I  too will give it a stab  

 

......  and another stab ... and another stab .......    stab stab stab stab stab  ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Nungali

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, dwai said:

There are many things in the video that make sense. But when he says there’s no evidence of asymptomatic spreaders, that’s what has caused the second wave in India according to many experts.

https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-whats-changed-in-second-wave-7289002/

 

 

 

Those "many experts," may karma reward each and every one of them according to their deeds, go against the science of virology and epidemiology as it always existed until covidism took over and forced it out by decree.  How did they become that kind of experts all of a sudden, to cancel the whole major scientific field and replace it with something it has always deemed impossible?  

 

There's a few other versions of what exactly caused the second wave in India, a lot more believable.  But I really want to bail out of this conversation because I spent over a year going daily to every major scientific journal in the world for every publication based on good and reliable science that got silenced by the bad and falsified kind, to bitchute for every video deleted by facebook and youtube minutes after showing up, to every personal testimony that got removed thirty seconds after being posted (but archived by those who, like me, draw their conclusions not from what they are being force fed 24/7 through every orifice imaginable but from what is being withheld, suppressed, cancelled, ridiculed -- and first and foremost silenced.)  So I wouldn't know where to begin at this point talking to anyone who has been using the opposite method to form their opinion.  The dinosaurs?  The trilobites?    

[dwai]

I guess The Massachusetts General Hospital is one of those “overnight experts”? 
 

 https://www.massgeneral.org/children/news/asymptomatic-spreaders-young-people-with-covid-19

UC Health 

 

https://www.uchealth.org/today/the-truth-about-asymptomatic-spread-of-covid-19/

 

Harvard 

 

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/08/looking-at-children-as-the-silent-spreaders-of-sars-cov-2/

 

I admittedly don’t have much direct knowledge on this matter, but really, this was basic biology, but surely the CDC has good information on this matter?

 

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dsepd/ss1978/lesson1/section10.html

 

Quote

 

The reservoir of an infectious agent is the habitat in which the agent normally lives, grows, and multiplies. Reservoirs include humans, animals, and the environment. The reservoir may or may not be the source from which an agent is transferred to a host. For example, the reservoir of Clostridium botulinum is soil, but the source of most botulism infections is improperly canned food containing C. botulinum spores.

Human reservoirs. Many common infectious diseases have human reservoirs. Diseases that are transmitted from person to person without intermediaries include the sexually transmitted diseases, measles, mumps, streptococcal infection, and many respiratory pathogens. Because humans were the only reservoir for the smallpox virus, naturally occurring smallpox was eradicated after the last human case was identified and isolated.8

Human reservoirs may or may not show the effects of illness. As noted earlier, a carrier is a person with inapparent infection who is capable of transmitting the pathogen to others. Asymptomatic or passive or healthy carriers are those who never experience symptoms despite being infected. Incubatory carriers are those who can transmit the agent during the incubation period before clinical illness begins. Convalescent carriers are those who have recovered from their illness but remain capable of transmitting to others. Chronic carriers are those who continue to harbor a pathogen such as hepatitis B virus or Salmonella Typhi, the causative agent of typhoid fever, for months or even years after their initial infection. One notorious carrier is Mary Mallon, or Typhoid Mary, who was an asymptomatic chronic carrier of Salmonella Typhi. As a cook in New York City and New Jersey in the early 1900s, she unintentionally infected dozens of people until she was placed in isolation on an island in the East River, where she died 23 years later.(45) 

 

Carriers commonly transmit disease because they do not realize they are infected, and consequently take no special precautions to prevent transmission. Symptomatic persons who are aware of their illness, on the other hand, may be less likely to transmit infection because they are either too sick to be out and about, take precautions to reduce transmission, or receive treatment that limits the disease.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by dwai

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

I m not sure either, but I  too will give it a stab  

 

......  and another stab ... and another stab .......    stab stab stab stab stab  ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

Is that you Mr. Churchill?

[Apech]

3 hours ago, dwai said:

I really think it is a relative thing at one level and a psychological disease at another. 
 

Relative how? The British Raj (as an example) was a source of much pride to the English of that time. It certainly seemed to have benefited some of the citizens of England, and  certainly ushered in the industrial revolution, often on the backs of appropriated technology from India and China. 
 

On the other hand, they committed atrocities of unfathomable proportions (and yet to be fully accounted for) on Indians, and other colonized people. Churchill is as bad as, if not worse than Hitler (he was the architect of the genocide of millions of bengalis in India). Most Indians would consider both the Raj as well as Churchill evil. 
 

Yet, in the west, he is considered to be a “hero”, while Hitler is (rightly) vilified everywhere. So good and evil are relative. 
 

The psychological problem aspect is where we find the sociopaths and psychopaths — who of course kill and hurt with impunity. It is a disease of the mind/brain. We consider them evil. But similar defects when resulting in great leadership (such as successful CEOs in the business world), are celebrated and feted.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackmccullough/2019/12/09/the-psychopathic-ceo/?sh=6271ed03791e

 

 

 

So ... Brits evil ... Nazis not so much.  Thanks for the clarification.

 

 

[doc benway]

2 hours ago, natural said:

I hope we can agree we don't know what we don't know.

Experts either won't or can't admit that.

Colchicine a interesting chemical.

Yes, I said chemical.

Strictly speaking water is a chemical too.

 

I was aware of Colchicine in the 70's. 

Used at that time for genetic modification.

Derived from fall crocus all natural.

 

As was / is nicotine.

Food for thought?

 

Colchicine is magic for gout

Few side effects in low dosage

Nasty stuff though

[dwai]

16 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

So ... Brits evil ... Nazis not so much.  Thanks for the clarification.

 

 

How did you jump to that conclusion from what I wrote? 😲

Many Indians consider Churchill and the British Raj to be as evil as the Nazis. To be very clear — it has nothing to do with the British people of today.

Edited May 7, 2021 by dwai

[Apech]

8 minutes ago, dwai said:

How did you jump to that conclusion from what I wrote? 😲

Many Indians consider Churchill and the British Raj to be as evil as the Nazis. To be very clear — it has nothing to do with the British people of today.

 

In Britain what I said is called ironic banter.  

 

 

[escott]

14 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

if ones  parents, grandparents,  other family members and or friends are suffering or dead from covid there will not be much care free and often  indulgent "socializing"...(as large numbers of college kids are doing)) it should be black and white obvious that  we have had pain and in the worst cases mourning which has happened to lots of families!  Btw. many states have black and white rules about certain health matters, for instance if you are not tested for and clear of TB or whatever other diseases then you can not work as food handlers/cooks;  Yet there are some trump like  idiotic fools  who want to enjoy living a "Reality TV" life similar to what was depicted on the old apprentice show which was driven by  greedy liars, cheats and thief's of debased one-up-man-ship.. or some who simply want to cheer on their god anointed dictator who will take them to the promised land, which in their case  analogy wise translates to them having the  freedom  not to deal with things like TB or covid in restaurant workers since such is just another leftist lie from "snowflakes" as far as they are concerned.  Talk about acting on misinformation!

I had composed a long response. I edited it out, never mind, your response is irrational. It would be a wasted effort. I have been away from TDB for a while because of just this type of thinking. I should have not got involved in this conversation. I'll just suggest you come out of hiding in your basement, turn off the TV and internet news and talk to people who talk to people. Your being lied to and manipulated by those who profit from your fear.

Edited May 8, 2021 by escott

[old3bob]

7 hours ago, escott said:

I had composed a long response. I edited it out, never mind, your response is irrational. It would be a wasted effort. I have been away from TDB for a while because of just this type of thinking. I should have not got involved in this conversation. I'll just suggest you come out of hiding in your basement, turn off the TV and internet news and talk to people who talk to people. Your being lied to and manipulated by those who profit from your fear.

 

Sounds like a high and mighty, irrational and presumptuous comeback on your part....50 years before covid I had to be tested for and be clear of TB before I could become a cook and those state mandated precautions were for the good of all citizens along with no one  being lied to or manipulated  about it.  So analogy wise covid is of similar and seemingly greater import although I don't know the comparative  stats on how many people have died from TB compared to the scale of  covid deaths.  (and there are several TB and Strep variants which no one wants to come into contact with, more so in medically ill equipped countries to deal with it. (and several other severe diseases).  Btw. I also had kids and know of their trails and tribulations but even they can cowboy or cowgirl same as adults yet with adult support and I think they can also do without a lot of the so called "modern" and often  artificial  bullshit they become addicted to from parts of western culture.    

[doc benway]

19 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Thanks for this, Taomeow.  Kind of mindblowing.  It leads to some obvious questions like...why has there been a blackout on outpatient treatment options and a near total focus on vaccines?  Who benefits?  Is this just about vaccine profits for pharmaceutical companies or is there another layer to this?  

 

I heard you when you said you´ve sworn off this topic so no worries if you´d rather not provide answers.  Just wanted to share the questions I´m left with.  

 

Taomeow probably has more knowledge and insight on this topic than me but I’ll share an observation, if you’re interested.

 

The US illness care system is like an enormous cruise ship with a rudder that is attached to countless cables. Those cables have varying degrees of control and those most influential are solidly in the hands of opportunistic business persons, mostly white men. The specifics of those on control can be surmised but I suspect there are competing interests rather than a coherent and collaborative cabal... just my guess.

 

There is little to no overall sense of a coherent plan or initiative for national, public health maintenance. The organizations that claim such a mission are largely compromised by politics and inadequate public support and funding. The public has in large measure been convinced that such initiatives are evil or doomed to failure, hence the absence of large scale public outcry and support. 

 

Health and human life are far lower in priority than monetary and political power. What comprehensive systems are in place  have been hijacked to largely serve as a conduit for wealth concentration and political manipulation. Medicare and Medicaid are somewhat exceptional in that they are reasonably efficient and effective programs, within their inherent limitations.

There are lots of good and great providers and researchers, like Dr. McCullough above, at all levels within the system but little organization, communication, or collective power. This has been ensured by federal law that ties their hands quite effectively. There are also lots of bad apples, of course.

 

I have great confidence in the potential for a sane and comprehensive health care system to enhance our lives but the current system is too deeply compromised  to be effectively modified or sustained, IMO. Like our “two party” democratic fallacy, it needs to be torn down and rebuilt with fresh eyes and minds, and with a heart. The problems are certainly not limited to Covid but the pandemic has exposed the complete and utter failure of our system to support and provide optimal care for our people. The good news is that we can see clearly and objectively how ineffective our system is at anything other than wealth re-distribution. The terrifying news is that we do not seem to be able or willing to make the necessary changes even when faced with such clear and powerful motivation, regardless of which wing of the oligarchy is in control. 

[escott]

4 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

Sounds like a high and mighty, irrational and presumptuous comeback on your part....50 years before covid I had to be tested for and be clear of TB before I could become a cook and those state mandated precautions were for the good of all citizens along with no one  being lied to or manipulated  about it.  So analogy wise covid is of similar and seemingly greater import although I don't know the comparative  stats on how many people have died from TB compared to the scale of  covid deaths.  (and there are several TB and Strep variants which no one wants to come into contact with, more so in medically ill equipped countries to deal with it. (and several other severe diseases).  Btw. I also had kids and know of their trails and tribulations but even they can cowboy or cowgirl same as adults yet with adult support and I think they can also do without a lot of the so called "modern" and often  artificial  bullshit they become addicted to from parts of western culture.    

You have no idea how the effects of Polio ravaged my family. You don't know how many times I've wept over how the cold steel of that wheelchair and the hissing and whirring of the respirator connected to my grandmother kept me from hugging and kissing her more. You don't know how effects of it caused me to resent my grandfather. There's no way you could know, so I won't hold that against you. I know all too well how infectious disease can ruin lives.

[old3bob]

18 minutes ago, escott said:

You have no idea how the effects of Polio ravaged my family. You don't know how many times I've wept over how the cold steel of that wheelchair and the hissing and whirring of the respirator connected to my grandmother kept me from hugging and kissing her more. You don't know how effects of it caused me to resent my grandfather. There's no way you could know, so I won't hold that against you. I know all too well how infectious disease can ruin lives.

 

I'm sorry for your very painful experience with your grandmother......and also I obviously  never stated, assumed or knew anything about that matter thus putting me (per use of an "you") into some kind of unfeeling box is way off base and wrong.  Thus I'd say the  "you" should be replaced with "many people". 

Edited May 8, 2021 by old3bob