Retrograde orgasm (Mature conversation)

[Romeo]

Hey, I was wondering if you could have a retrograde orgasm by just squeezing your pc muscles when you reach the point of no return? I can do it if I stop stroking my penis, but It does not work when I keep stroking it. I was wondering if it was only supposed to work when you go slow or something?

[Nungali]

By definition , 'point of no return'  ;  means there is no reversal or 'return'   , otherwise it would be a 'point of return' -  if you can return from it .   'Retrograde'  means    a backward movement or a movement that is opposite to the usual direction of flow. 

 

So, unless you want to turn ' Pedro ' into a vacuum cleaner   . . . . .

 

 

 

 

 

[Romeo]

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

By definition , 'point of no return'  ;  means there is no reversal or 'return'   , otherwise it would be a 'point of return' -  if you can return from it .   'Retrograde'  means    a backward movement or a movement that is opposite to the usual direction of flow. 

 

So, unless you want to turn ' Pedro ' into a vacuum cleaner   . . . . .

 

 

Okay, so I should stop stroking/stimulating my penis when I get close to the point of no return, and squeeze my pc muscles for the retrograde orgasm to happen?

 

 

 

[liminal_luke]

I´m wondering what the point of having a retrograde (as opposed to ordinary) orgasm would be?  Historically, many male Bums have expressed interest in avoiding orgasm for the purpose of "jing retention."  This is a dubious practice, though I admit to some interest.  I believe most would say that any orgasm, retrograde or otherwise, counts as a slip.  Indeed, I´ve read that sexual arousal alone, without orgasm, can be detrimental.  

 

My sense is that the prevailing view amongst mature practitioners is that trying to retain jing by avoiding sex is either entirely misguided or an advanced practice that has no place in the beginner´s toolbox.  Then again, when have I ever listened to a mature practitioner?

[silent thunder]

I had to invest a bit to get passed the fact that Romeo is asking about avoiding orgasms... Romeo.  It made me chuckle.

 

Landing on the side of you're not just getting jolly by talking about touching your nedster online... l echo liminal_luke's take.  Retention practices, Sublimation, Abstention can all cause major issues (particularly in younger men) even among those who've built a directed practice on a foundation with an in person, dedicated teacher. 

 

I have practiced sublimation and retention when beneficial, but for me, it has always been for a set duration, (usually three cycles of the Moon) and only during a specific phase in my process with a directed purpose.  It is not and never has been a life long practice to me in any of my learning (aside from a handful of monastic folks throughout history and their calling seems too obsessive in my opinion) At the least, it should never in my experience be undertaken willy nilly, or cuz you read in a book that it'll supercharge your energy practices.  It will supercharge a whole load of shite if you have uncleared blockages in your system.  Our forum is rife with folks arriving here asking for help reversing damage due to tension filled retention practices they followed out of a book.

 

As a side note, now into my 50's, looking back I have become aware that in certain phases of life I found myself inadvertently abstinant without consciously intending it.  It arose naturally, of itself, tzujan.  There are times when sexual union and orgasm have simply fallen off my radar for months at a time. 

 

Sexual union and arousal in particular, are utterly natural, so overtly trying to throttle this is grounds for problems... above all, if you go into it, try not to turn it into a 'success/failure' model in your mind.  This will breed tension and tension is more an enemy than any orgasm.  Becoming aroused and having orgasms is an utterly natural function of our form as human, particularly younger men.  Taoists had wives all throughout history.  Wang Liping is married and has a son.  Calming the mind and breath are much more worthy pursuits in my case.

 

The struggle, if there is one, is your first sign you're off the rails.  There should be no struggle, fasting of any kind should arise in joy.  If you are fasting from food and find yourself grouchy about it and thinking about food constantly all through the day, you're treading water at best and bleeding off the merit as you gain it.  Fasting and denial steeped in struggle and tension is backwards motion in my experience.  Cultivate clarity, calm and simple joy first.  And if you can, find a dedicated teacher to lead you when the timing is beneficial.

 

Asking strangers online about when to stop stroking your nedster... well that's just humor to me, particularly when your chosen name is Romeo.

[Wu Ming Jen]

I find the humor with the tag line mature conversation. So I was celibate for 13 years and then I turned 14. My girl friend wouldn't stroke it so I had to.  I contracted my pc and went into retrograde but thankfully I did not contract something I would need to see a doctor about, you know the itching and burning feeling.

 

It is a long story on the internet with strangers but spoiler alert Romeo dies in the end. Feel free to fill in the middle of the story being without a partner. Who knows the happy ending could change.

[Cleansox]

35 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

 

Who knows the happy ending could change.

I believe that the point of the thread was how to not have a "happy ending". 

 

But a happy ending is better than happeh theory 😁

[liminal_luke]

1 hour ago, Cleansox said:

I believe that the point of the thread was how to not have a "happy ending". 

 

But a happy ending is better than happeh theory 😁

 

Happiness is in the eye of the beholder, or, more frequently, on his stomach.

Edited May 22, 2021 by liminal_luke

[Cleansox]

5 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Happiness is in the eye of the beholder,

🤣🤭

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, silent thunder said:

I had to invest a bit to get passed the fact that Romeo is asking about avoiding orgasms... Romeo.  It made me chuckle.

 

...

 

 

No, he isnt  asking about how to avoid an orgasm  but how to have a  'retrograde orgasm'  . 

 

ie, filling the bladder up with it  ...........   .. for who knows  what reason !     

 

 

I suppose one could put a clamp on it .

 

 

 

 

[silent thunder]

22 minutes ago, Nungali said:

No, he isnt  asking about how to avoid an orgasm  but how to have a  'retrograde orgasm'  . 

 

ie, filling the bladder up with it  ...........   .. for who knows  what reason ! 

 

Yea, it's odd territory, sublimation and reversal.  Not without benefit in certain conditions, but... buyer be wary.

 

I'm a naturalist in regards to these things.  To me, two rivers that meet should merge and both flow toward the sea... one shouldn't randomly turn and flow upstream to its connector... besides, if you manage to back the flow of the semen river into the bladder... what do folks imagine happens when you purge the bladder? 

 

ok, enough peepee observations for a while... ciao all.

[Romeo]

On 5/22/2021 at 12:23 PM, silent thunder said:

I had to invest a bit to get passed the fact that Romeo is asking about avoiding orgasms... Romeo.  It made me chuckle.

 

Landing on the side of you're not just getting jolly by talking about touching your nedster online... l echo liminal_luke's take.  Retention practices, Sublimation, Abstention can all cause major issues (particularly in younger men) even among those who've built a directed practice on a foundation with an in person, dedicated teacher. 

 

I have practiced sublimation and retention when beneficial, but for me, it has always been for a set duration, (usually three cycles of the Moon) and only during a specific phase in my process with a directed purpose.  It is not and never has been a life long practice to me in any of my learning (aside from a handful of monastic folks throughout history and their calling seems too obsessive in my opinion) At the least, it should never in my experience be undertaken willy nilly, or cuz you read in a book that it'll supercharge your energy practices.  It will supercharge a whole load of shite if you have uncleared blockages in your system.  Our forum is rife with folks arriving here asking for help reversing damage due to tension filled retention practices they followed out of a book.

 

As a side note, now into my 50's, looking back I have become aware that in certain phases of life I found myself inadvertently abstinant without consciously intending it.  It arose naturally, of itself, tzujan.  There are times when sexual union and orgasm have simply fallen off my radar for months at a time. 

 

Sexual union and arousal in particular, are utterly natural, so overtly trying to throttle this is grounds for problems... above all, if you go into it, try not to turn it into a 'success/failure' model in your mind.  This will breed tension and tension is more an enemy than any orgasm.  Becoming aroused and having orgasms is an utterly natural function of our form as human, particularly younger men.  Taoists had wives all throughout history.  Wang Liping is married and has a son.  Calming the mind and breath are much more worthy pursuits in my case.

 

The struggle, if there is one, is your first sign you're off the rails.  There should be no struggle, fasting of any kind should arise in joy.  If you are fasting from food and find yourself grouchy about it and thinking about food constantly all through the day, you're treading water at best and bleeding off the merit as you gain it.  Fasting and denial steeped in struggle and tension is backwards motion in my experience.  Cultivate clarity, calm and simple joy first.  And if you can, find a dedicated teacher to lead you when the timing is beneficial.

 

Asking strangers online about when to stop stroking your nedster... well that's just humor to me, particularly when your chosen name is Romeo.

Thank you for answering my question. I was wondering how Retention practices, Sublimation, Abstention can all cause major issues? A few years ago, I read online that retaining your sexual energy without transmuting it can cause issues. Also, Is there any good way to remove blockages from your body? I was also thinking about doing the cold draw technique as well. I was going to hold my breath and squeeze my pc muscles while focusing on my balls 9 times every day. I feel like that is a good way to transmute my sexual energy.

[Romeo]

On 5/22/2021 at 5:32 PM, Nungali said:

 

No, he isnt  asking about how to avoid an orgasm  but how to have a  'retrograde orgasm'  . 

 

ie, filling the bladder up with it  ...........   .. for who knows  what reason !     

 

 

I suppose one could put a clamp on it .

 

 

 

 

Thanks for answering my question. You are correct. I was asking how to have a retrograde orgasm.

[Romeo]

On 5/22/2021 at 1:00 PM, Wu Ming Jen said:

I find the humor with the tag line mature conversation. So I was celibate for 13 years and then I turned 14. My girl friend wouldn't stroke it so I had to.  I contracted my pc and went into retrograde but thankfully I did not contract something I would need to see a doctor about, you know the itching and burning feeling.

 

It is a long story on the internet with strangers but spoiler alert Romeo dies in the end. Feel free to fill in the middle of the story being without a partner. Who knows the happy ending could change.

I guess the tagline is kind of funny. lol

[Cleansox]

6 hours ago, Romeo said:

 

 Also, Is there any good way to remove blockages from your body? 

Non-sexual methods. 

Since the non-ejaculatory methods are based on (forceful) behavioural inhibition, and behavioural inhibition cause blockages,... ... . 

[Nungali]

^  Indeed .

 

Reich's system helps remove blockages via 'potent orgasm'  .

 

" For Reich, "orgastic impotence" is an acquired fear of sexual excitation, resulting in the inability to find full sexual gratification (not to be confused with anorgasmia, the inability to reach orgasm). This always resulted in neurosis, according to Reich, because that person could never discharge all built-up libido, which Reich regarded as actual biological or bioelectric energy. According to Reich, "not a single neurotic individual possesses orgastic potency"^[3] and, inversely, all people free from neuroses have orgastic potency. "

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgastic_potency

 

He stated “Armoring is the condition that results when energy is bound by muscular contraction and does not flow through the body”(Reich:1936) . He saw that there existed character armouring which he defined as “the sum total of typical character attitudes, which an individual develops as a blocking against their emotional excitations, resulting in rigidity in the body, and lack of emotional contact ”.  He defined muscular armouring as “the sum total of muscular(chronic muscular spasms) which an individual develops as a block against the breakthrough of emotions and organ sensations, particularly anxiety, rage and sexual excitation” (Reich:1936).

[Romeo]

2 hours ago, Cleansox said:

Non-sexual methods. 

Since the non-ejaculatory methods are based on (forceful) behavioural inhibition, and behavioural inhibition cause blockages,... ... . 

Are the nonsexual methods meditation and deep breathing? I read online that those things could help clear blockages. Would the cold draw be a good method because I would have to use concentration on my testicles to move the energy throughout my body? How do people actually move the energy throughout their bodies? Do they just use their mind to direct the flow of energy?

[Romeo]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

^  Indeed .

 

Reich's system helps remove blockages via 'potent orgasm'  .

 

" For Reich, "orgastic impotence" is an acquired fear of sexual excitation, resulting in the inability to find full sexual gratification (not to be confused with anorgasmia, the inability to reach orgasm). This always resulted in neurosis, according to Reich, because that person could never discharge all built-up libido, which Reich regarded as actual biological or bioelectric energy. According to Reich, "not a single neurotic individual possesses orgastic potency"^[3] and, inversely, all people free from neuroses have orgastic potency. "

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgastic_potency

 

He stated “Armoring is the condition that results when energy is bound by muscular contraction and does not flow through the body”(Reich:1936) . He saw that there existed character armouring which he defined as “the sum total of typical character attitudes, which an individual develops as a blocking against their emotional excitations, resulting in rigidity in the body, and lack of emotional contact ”.  He defined muscular armouring as “the sum total of muscular(chronic muscular spasms) which an individual develops as a block against the breakthrough of emotions and organ sensations, particularly anxiety, rage and sexual excitation” (Reich:1936).

That is very interesting. I will look into Reich's system. I never heard of him before.  I was thinking that the cold draw technique could help the most because it actually pulls sexual energy from my testicles and moves it around my body.

[Cleansox]

5 hours ago, Romeo said:

Are the nonsexual methods meditation and deep breathing?

Meditation, breathing, movements, static positions. 

5 hours ago, Romeo said:

 How do people actually move the energy throughout their bodies? Do they just use their mind to direct the flow of energy?

Intent, lack of intent, movements, static positions, spontaneously. 

Let me count the ways... 😁 

[Romeo]

4 hours ago, Cleansox said:

Meditation, breathing, movements, static positions. 

Intent, lack of intent, movements, static positions, spontaneously. 

Let me count the ways... 😁 

Oh, ok. Do you think doing cold draw would be a good way to transmute sexual energy? Also, if I wanted to be sexually active and not release my seeds, would doing tantra be a good idea?

Edited May 25, 2021 by Romeo

[Cleansox]

1 hour ago, Romeo said:

Oh, ok. Do you think doing cold draw would be a good way to transmute sexual energy? 

No. Because you want to transmute it before it becomes sexual energy. 

But if you are in to Chia's stuff: Why not? Better than the hot draw. 

1 hour ago, Romeo said:

Also, if I wanted to be sexually active and not release my seeds, would doing tantra be a good idea?

Depends on your goal. 

Do you want to be able to have huge amounts of sex? 

Then yes (Chia's version). 

BTDT. 

 

Or, if you refer to the methods that latched on the tantric wave, I don't know. Haven't practiced that. 

 

But again, it depends on your goals and which prize you are willing to pay to reach them. 

Again, BTDT, price tag was higher that what I got out of it. 

[Romeo]

5 hours ago, Cleansox said:

No. Because you want to transmute it before it becomes sexual energy. 

But if you are in to Chia's stuff: Why not? Better than the hot draw. 

Depends on your goal. 

Do you want to be able to have huge amounts of sex? 

Then yes (Chia's version). 

BTDT. 

 

Or, if you refer to the methods that latched on the tantric wave, I don't know. Haven't practiced that. 

 

But again, it depends on your goals and which prize you are willing to pay to reach them. 

Again, BTDT, price tag was higher that what I got out of it. 

so I should transmute it before It becomes sexual energy. I was thinking about being sexually active, so I think that chia's stuff would be the best. You said that the price tag was higher than what you got out of it. Can you explain that to me, please?

[Cleansox]

1 hour ago, Romeo said:

so I should transmute it before It becomes sexual energy.

Yes, the idea of first manifesting energy to a lower level and then trying to get it back is sort of a waste of, well, energy. 

1 hour ago, Romeo said:

I was thinking about being sexually active, so I think that chia's stuff would be the best.

I'm married, the one doesn't exclude the other. Unless you want to have copious amounts of sex. 

1 hour ago, Romeo said:

You said that the price tag was higher than what you got out of it. Can you explain that to me, please?

Naaah. Just keep doing that Chia stuff, it might work better for you than for me. 

[Nungali]

12 hours ago, Romeo said:

Oh, ok. Do you think doing cold draw would be a good way to transmute sexual energy? Also, if I wanted to be sexually active and not release my seeds, would doing tantra be a good idea?

 

You could aim for orgasm without ejaculation .

 

( That might be a difficult concept to comprehend for some men though . )

[Romeo]

5 hours ago, Cleansox said:

Yes, the idea of first manifesting energy to a lower level and then trying to get it back is sort of a waste of, well, energy. 

I'm married, the one doesn't exclude the other. Unless you want to have copious amounts of sex. 

Naaah. Just keep doing that Chia stuff, it might work better for you than for me. 

 

 

 

Okay, I have also been doing Qi Gong as well. I have noticed that when I do it, my perineum will start to got hot, and it feels like the energy is going up to my head. My forehead starts to become hot as I am doing the practice. I was wondering if that was a good thing because my lungs feel a little sore throughout the day. I wasn't doing reverse abdominal breathing, but I still feel a little discomfort. I read in a book that if you do reverse abdominal breathing without sucking the stomach in, then the chi energy will go up into the head and lungs. I have been doing pranayama and deep breathing exercises for about 3 months I have been doing pranayama exercises where I could barely breathe. Perhaps that was the issue.