Retrograde orgasm (Mature conversation)

[Romeo]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

You could aim for orgasm without ejaculation .

 

( That might be a difficult concept to comprehend for some men though . )

Okay, I will aim for orgasm without ejaculation.

[Creation]

On 5/24/2021 at 9:09 AM, Romeo said:

I was wondering how Retention practices, Sublimation, Abstention can all cause major issues?

Hi Romeo,

Let me take a stab at this.  There is the fairly well known possibility of having to much energy shooting up into your head, but there is a lesser known, more insidious possibility.  If you engage in these practices from a place of insecurity, lack, wish for control or power, or base indulgence, whatever energy they to cultivate and circulate will feed these psychological patterns.  Long term this can steer a person toward sexual perversity of various types - this is called "poison fire taints the heart".  And since you asked about transmutation, as soon as your jing mobilizes to pursue a base desire, it can't be transmuted, leaving it in your system is like leaving muddy, putrid water pooling up in your home.  As far as I can tell, learning to relax and breathe during sex to have a more full and satisfying experience is fine (as long as you pay attention to your psychology around it - loving connection vs base indulgence), but sexual activity plus "retention" is really misguided. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Creation

[Romeo]

51 minutes ago, Creation said:

Hi Romeo,

Let me take a stab at this.  There is the fairly well known possibility of having to much energy shooting up into your head, but there is a lesser known, more insidious possibility.  If you engage in these practices from a place of insecurity, lack, wish for control or power, or base indulgence, whatever energy they to cultivate and circulate will feed these psychological patterns.  Long term this can steer a person toward sexual perversity of various types - this is called "poison fire taints the heart".  And since you asked about transmutation, as soon as your jing mobilizes to pursue a base desire, it can't be transmuted, leaving it in your system is like leaving muddy, putrid water pooling up in your home.  As far as I can tell, learning to relax and breathe during sex to have a more full and satisfying experience is fine (as long as you pay attention to your psychology around it - loving connection vs base indulgence), but sexual activity plus "retention" is really misguided. 

I agree with what you are saying. I know a few females that have really wild and strange sexual fantasies. I never knew why that was the case. I think it may be because they are feeding their psyche with lust and desire to the point that they have a craving for perversity. Do you think that is the case with most people that indulge in sex for only pleasure? I wanted to do these practices because I want to have sex and still be spiritual. I don't want to release my seeds when I have intercourse because I want to live a healthy lifestyle. It also drains a lot of energy when I release my seeds as well.

[liminal_luke]

Some people are attracted to sexual retention practices because they are interested in celibacy -- ie not having sex.  Others are attracted to sexual retention practices because they want to have more and better sex.  Both motivations are valid, in my view, but they are different and lead to different outcomes.

[Romeo]

31 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Some people are attracted to sexual retention practices because they are interested in celibacy -- ie not having sex.  Others are attracted to sexual retention practices because they want to have more and better sex.  Both motivations are valid, in my view, but they are different and lead to different outcomes.

I want to have  better sex. But I would also like to learn how to transmute the sexual energy as well.

[senseless virtue]

20 hours ago, Romeo said:

I want to have  better sex. But I would also like to learn how to transmute the sexual energy as well.

 

Want to have better sex? Open your heart and learn to love first.

 

Want to learn how to transmute the sexual energy? Open your heart and learn to love first.

 

If you try to jump in energy aspect first, especially in sexual activities, then you are trying to bypass important preliminaries that you would have to address anyway. Tantric practices you mentioned earlier are particularly sensitive to the degree of your heart's openness. Having a free and open heart would also make it much less likely to get snared by devious side paths and training mistakes.

 

There are preliminary practices in all complete traditions worldwide that give emphasis on being humble, charitable, unselfish, and caring in every turn as a part of their ethical attitude and conduct requirements. You might want to read what Jesus spoke in the New Testament about loving others, forgiving, and turning the other cheek for the most profound and immediate lessons available to the Western audience.

 

On 5/25/2021 at 1:58 PM, Cleansox said:

Because you want to transmute it before it becomes sexual energy. 

 

On 5/26/2021 at 4:49 AM, Creation said:

And since you asked about transmutation, as soon as your jing mobilizes to pursue a base desire, it can't be transmuted, leaving it in your system is like leaving muddy, putrid water pooling up in your home.

 

These two posters that I quoted are hereby declared 100% verified sexperts who know their preheaven and postheaven jing!

 

Here is a timely short excerpt from an upcoming internal alchemy book that refers to the transmutation process and sexual functions leaking energy:

 

https://www.gofundme.com/f/translation-of-ten-discourses-on-daoist-alchemy?viewupdates=1

 

Except from Chapter 7, "Primordial Jing and Primordial Shen" (italics in the text can't be reproduced here):

We need to examine the principles that underlie “refining jing to transform it into qi,” in order to be sure about what “jing” means in the context of this work. Many people misunderstand this concept, and as a result they conflate the later heaven jing related to reproduction and primordial jing. Because later heaven jing has already turned into a substance with a physical form, it is no longer possible to directly transform it into qi. It is already “old,” and therefore cannot be used in inner alchemy. If anybody states that this unclear form of jing can be transformed into some kind of qi, he or she is pointing to a side door leading towards a crooked path. Even a worldly scientist with no knowledge of Daoism can tell that this is impossible, because the principles behind such a practice are illogical.

We have to distinguish ordinary jing and primordial jing, but there is a somewhat tricky point we need to be clear about in order to do so. The jing that is refined in inner alchemy is primordial jing. Primordial jing is a relatively subtle form of energy or sustenance found in the human body, and it needs be made to transform into qi, which is an even more subtle and rarefied form of energy. This process is in some ways akin to cooking—when we put ingredients into a pot and add heat, the ingredients will start to steam, meaning that the substances that had been in a liquid state are turning into gases. The tricky point where this analogy breaks down lies in the fact that that primordial jing is formless; it is only akin to a fluid, but it not actually something in the liquid state of matter. Similarly, qi is merely analogous to something in the gaseous state, because it is something that flows throughout the body, but it is not actually a gas. Nevertheless, we use this analogy because when “fire” (which represents the effects created by consciousness) and “wind” (which represents the effects created by the breath) are regulated in tandem, jing can transform into qi, which means that jing transmutes into a more sublime form of energy. That is the meaning of “refining jing to transform it into qi.”

Even though primordial jing is distinct from later heaven, corporeal jing, the two are nevertheless closely related. For this reason, if we are to practice internal alchemy, it is necessary to moderate our desires, which means reducing the exhaustion of our sexual energies as much as possible. What principle underlies this statement? Primordial jing is the basic energy of life. If it is called to do so, it will fulfill its function by turning into the body’s sexual fluids and energies. Turning into reproductive jing is the route that primordial jing commonly takes, and as this happens it gets used up. Thus, if we constantly consume our reproductive essences, at the same time our primordial jing will constantly transform into corporeal jing, which means that we will lack the basic ingredient for the alchemical work of “transforming jing to turn it into qi.”

Conversely, if we sublimate and refine primordial jing before it has undergone the process of turning into post heaven, physical jing, it will become a higher level energy. Simultaneously, that change will reduce the strength of the impetus that pushes primordial jing to go in the direction of becoming bodily jing. The natural result of this process is to transform sexual energies as well as reduce the rate at which they are consumed; both outcomes are closely intertwined.

[Cleansox]

There are a bunch of old nei dan threads on this forum that should have ^ as a final post. 

[Romeo]

6 hours ago, virtue said:

 

Want to have better sex? Open your heart and learn to love first.

 

Want to learn how to transmute the sexual energy? Open your heart and learn to love first.

 

If you try to jump in energy aspect first, especially in sexual activities, then you are trying to bypass important preliminaries that you would have to address anyway. Tantric practices you mentioned earlier are particularly sensitive to the degree of your heart's openness. Having a free and open heart would also make it much less likely to get snared by devious side paths and training mistakes.

 

There are preliminary practices in all complete traditions worldwide that give emphasis on being humble, charitable, unselfish, and caring in every turn as a part of their ethical attitude and conduct requirements. You might want to read what Jesus spoke in the New Testament about loving others, forgiving, and turning the other cheek for the most profound and immediate lessons available to the Western audience.

 

 

 

These two posters that I quoted are hereby declared 100% verified sexperts who know their preheaven and postheaven jing!

 

Here is a timely short excerpt from an upcoming internal alchemy book that refers to the transmutation process and sexual functions leaking energy:

 

https://www.gofundme.com/f/translation-of-ten-discourses-on-daoist-alchemy?viewupdates=1

 

Except from Chapter 7, "Primordial Jing and Primordial Shen" (italics in the text can't be reproduced here):

We need to examine the principles that underlie “refining jing to transform it into qi,” in order to be sure about what “jing” means in the context of this work. Many people misunderstand this concept, and as a result they conflate the later heaven jing related to reproduction and primordial jing. Because later heaven jing has already turned into a substance with a physical form, it is no longer possible to directly transform it into qi. It is already “old,” and therefore cannot be used in inner alchemy. If anybody states that this unclear form of jing can be transformed into some kind of qi, he or she is pointing to a side door leading towards a crooked path. Even a worldly scientist with no knowledge of Daoism can tell that this is impossible, because the principles behind such a practice are illogical.

We have to distinguish ordinary jing and primordial jing, but there is a somewhat tricky point we need to be clear about in order to do so. The jing that is refined in inner alchemy is primordial jing. Primordial jing is a relatively subtle form of energy or sustenance found in the human body, and it needs be made to transform into qi, which is an even more subtle and rarefied form of energy. This process is in some ways akin to cooking—when we put ingredients into a pot and add heat, the ingredients will start to steam, meaning that the substances that had been in a liquid state are turning into gases. The tricky point where this analogy breaks down lies in the fact that that primordial jing is formless; it is only akin to a fluid, but it not actually something in the liquid state of matter. Similarly, qi is merely analogous to something in the gaseous state, because it is something that flows throughout the body, but it is not actually a gas. Nevertheless, we use this analogy because when “fire” (which represents the effects created by consciousness) and “wind” (which represents the effects created by the breath) are regulated in tandem, jing can transform into qi, which means that jing transmutes into a more sublime form of energy. That is the meaning of “refining jing to transform it into qi.”

Even though primordial jing is distinct from later heaven, corporeal jing, the two are nevertheless closely related. For this reason, if we are to practice internal alchemy, it is necessary to moderate our desires, which means reducing the exhaustion of our sexual energies as much as possible. What principle underlies this statement? Primordial jing is the basic energy of life. If it is called to do so, it will fulfill its function by turning into the body’s sexual fluids and energies. Turning into reproductive jing is the route that primordial jing commonly takes, and as this happens it gets used up. Thus, if we constantly consume our reproductive essences, at the same time our primordial jing will constantly transform into corporeal jing, which means that we will lack the basic ingredient for the alchemical work of “transforming jing to turn it into qi.”

Conversely, if we sublimate and refine primordial jing before it has undergone the process of turning into post heaven, physical jing, it will become a higher level energy. Simultaneously, that change will reduce the strength of the impetus that pushes primordial jing to go in the direction of becoming bodily jing. The natural result of this process is to transform sexual energies as well as reduce the rate at which they are consumed; both outcomes are closely intertwined.

Wow, this is some really good information. I know you said I should open my heart first. Do you mean that I should do deep meditation in order to achieve that goal? Is letting go of my ego a requirement in order for me to do tantra? I also was thinking about trying to achieve 1st jhana with meditation. Also, the information you posted about jing is really interesting. I was wondering if there were more books that taught about jing and how to transmute it. I look at that guy fundraiser, and it looks like he is still working on the book. 

[Romeo]

4 hours ago, Cleansox said:

There are a bunch of old nei dan threads on this forum that should have ^ as a final post. 

Okay, I will take a look at some of the old posts as well. Thanks again for answering my questions.

[Creation]

On 5/25/2021 at 9:48 PM, Romeo said:

I agree with what you are saying. I know a few females that have really wild and strange sexual fantasies. I never knew why that was the case. I think it may be because they are feeding their psyche with lust and desire to the point that they have a craving for perversity. Do you think that is the case with most people that indulge in sex for only pleasure? I wanted to do these practices because I want to have sex and still be spiritual. I don't want to release my seeds when I have intercourse because I want to live a healthy lifestyle. It also drains a lot of energy when I release my seeds as well.

The point I wanted to make is that the main thing that makes sex more or less spiritual is the the psychology of it.  Same with how draining it is to ejaculate.  That's not to say that there isn't a place for learning techniques, for instance working with jing in it's unaroused form is important in Daoist practice, and learning to minimize jing loss from ejaculation and share more pleasure and connection with your partner are, IMO, sensible things to do.  However, I must emphasize that the idea of retaining your seed being required to live a healthy lifestyle is itself a psychological complex around sex that effects the energetics of it (negatively), an idea that you seem to have adopted.  Ejaculation drains jing, but also thought drains jing, emotion drains jing, intense physical activity drains jing.  Yet all these things have benefits too and are part of a balanced life.  

Edited May 30, 2021 by Creation

[Romeo]

7 hours ago, Creation said:

The point I wanted to make is that the main thing that makes sex more or less spiritual is the the psychology of it.  Same with how draining it is to ejaculate.  That's not to say that there isn't a place for learning techniques, for instance working with jing in it's unaroused form is important in Daoist practice, and learning to minimize jing loss from ejaculation and share more pleasure and connection with your partner are, IMO, sensible things to do.  However, I must emphasize that the idea of retaining your seed being required to live a healthy lifestyle is itself a psychological complex around sex that effects the energetics of it (negatively), an idea that you seem to have adopted.  Ejaculation drains jing, but also thought drains jing, emotion drains jing, intense physical activity drains jing.  Yet all these things have benefits too and are part of a balanced life.  

Okay, so it depends on the psychology of the person when they are having sex. I should focus on love when I'm having sex or alone. You also said that seeing ejaculation as a bad thing can affect the energies of it. I don't see sex as a bad thing, but I do feel that releasing my seeds isn't going to benefit me.  But I still wanted to have multiple orgasms and never drop my seeds again or for a long time. I guess I could not think about it negatively. Is it still possible to do it without having any negative effect?

[Creation]

20 hours ago, Romeo said:

I do feel that releasing my seeds isn't going to benefit me.  But I still wanted to have multiple orgasms and never drop my seeds again or for a long time. I guess I could not think about it negatively. Is it still possible to do it without having any negative effect?

I honestly can't say.  Maybe there is some lineage that does this.  What I can say is that, whether you ejaculate or not, if you want to sublimate jing for spiritual purposes, you need correct practices and a correct framework.  If you are interested, there is info about authentic Daoist alchemy out there, the two teachers I am aware of both teach to lessen sexual activity but don't say to be celibate or practice "retention", and in fact warn against such practices.  Of course, having unlimited multiorgasmic sex and deriving nothing but benefit for your spiritual path sounds nice, but it seems that it is a fantasy.  

Edited May 31, 2021 by Creation

[S:C]

Hi Romeo,

may I ask what is your motivation to have multiples? 

You say you don't enjoy the effect it has on you. So why? Please the ladies, get the love or appreciation? Pure sensation? 

 

If you approach the topic from neuroscience with every climax you get a full load of dopamine (and other stuff?) in your mind-body-system, which feels great in that moment, but as soon at the level declines (and it sure does fast) it is like a dopamine 'hung over'. (With multiples the decline will be a lot lot worse.. . . .) There is a reason why the body usually has a refractory period. Going against that is like surfing waves much higher than your head with shaky knees and out of breath, you wouldn't do that either, only if you are into escapism or 'sensation' seeking. like the dudes from 'point break' surf movie (wrong way, imho. still there are cases where multiples comes naturally, but that is a different story ...) 

 

You might want to check out and go for norephinephrin, oxytocin, vasopressin and all the other 'good' stuff, that comes with a loving approach, that means a good woman/partner that understands you and is loving, kind and patient and appreciative anyhow. (& so should you. but don't fake it. find the real thing.) the increase and decline curve of oxytocin for example is very different, it takes longer to get to a peak and it lasts a lot lot longer and has healthy and positive mood side effects.

 

Then it is like riding the waves with ease and full breath, you won't be able to distinguish them, it is more like sailing, i guess, or like this dude. 

 

 

 

Don't stress yourself man, don't go against the dao!

 

Why is it that you say that sexuality and spirtuality doesn't mix? What do you mean with 'being spiritual' in the first place? 

 

p.s. and thanks for the info on the jing, chi stuff, guys @Cleansox @virtue @Creation! and it would be nice to hear from you what you mean with the 'open spiritual heart', is that the loving connection approach or something else you do when 'cultivating' ( - what does that even mean in your words would be interesting.)

Edited June 1, 2021 by liberale.ironikerin
typo and missin words

[Romeo]

On 5/31/2021 at 3:36 PM, Creation said:

I honestly can't say.  Maybe there is some lineage that does this.  What I can say is that, whether you ejaculate or not, if you want to sublimate jing for spiritual purposes, you need correct practices and a correct framework.  If you are interested, there is info about authentic Daoist alchemy out there, the two teachers I am aware of both teach to lessen sexual activity but don't say to be celibate or practice "retention", and in fact warn against such practices.  Of course, having unlimited multiorgasmic sex and deriving nothing but benefit for your spiritual path sounds nice, but it seems that it is a fantasy.  

Oh, so those practices were not designed for people to not drop their seeds forever? Why do those teachers warn people to not be celibate? Is it possible for people to transmute their sexual energy and live a celibate lifestyle? Is it a fantasy to not drop my seeds and be sexually active? I always thought that was possible.

[Romeo]

7 hours ago, liberale.ironikerin said:

Hi Romeo,

may I ask what is your motivation to have multiples? 

You say you don't enjoy the effect it has on you. So why? Please the ladies, get the love or appreciation? Pure sensation? 

 

If you approach the topic from neuroscience with every climax you get a full load of dopamine (and other stuff?) in your mind-body-system, which feels great in that moment, but as soon at the level declines (and it sure does fast) it is like a dopamine 'hung over'. (With multiples the decline will be a lot lot worse.. . . .) There is a reason why the body usually has a refractory period. Going against that is like surfing waves much higher than your head with shaky knees and out of breath, you wouldn't do that either, only if you are into escapism or 'sensation' seeking. like the dudes from 'point break' surf movie (wrong way, imho. still there are cases where multiples comes naturally, but that is a different story ...) 

 

You might want to check out and go for norephinephrin, oxytocin, vasopressin and all the other 'good' stuff, that comes with a loving approach, that means a good woman/partner that understands you and is loving, kind and patient and appreciative anyhow. (& so should you. but don't fake it. find the real thing.) the increase and decline curve of oxytocin for example is very different, it takes longer to get to a peak and it lasts a lot lot longer and has healthy and positive mood side effects.

 

Then it is like riding the waves with ease and full breath, you won't be able to distinguish them, it is more like sailing, i guess, or like this dude. 

 

 

 

Don't stress yourself man, don't go against the dao!

 

Why is it that you say that sexuality and spirtuality doesn't mix? What do you mean with 'being spiritual' in the first place? 

 

p.s. and thanks for the info on the jing, chi stuff, guys @Cleansox @virtue @Creation! and it would be nice to hear from you what you mean with the 'open spiritual heart', is that the loving connection approach or something else you do when 'cultivating' ( - what does that even mean in your words would be interesting.)

Greetings, liberale.ironikerin. My motivation is to not lose any jing when I'm having sex. I wanted to really never drop my seeds again because I feel like I'm losing energy when I do this. By spiritual, I mean being able to build up the energy inside of my body. I feel like jing is important energy that I should not lose. 

[S:C]

On 2.6.2021 at 1:15 AM, Romeo said:

 important energy that I should not lose. 

ah, cool, I see. from my viewpoint (physics) energy itself is never lost but only transformed.

the concept of those energies is foreign to me. 

 

from my grasp, it still would seem not really advisable to aspire to either be like a human perpetual mobile (not needing any new energy) or the contrary (as a lack of better words) a 'john galt motor' (a machine that is not losing any energy, [but extracts it from static electricity in the air] ... ). but maybe I do not get something important here.

 

from my viewpoint, the laws of physics would advise agaist that. then again with these certain energies, it has sometimes been debated, if the laws of physics do not apply. so, - - I'm out

 

then, I do not really understand your intention behind having so much energy stuck in your body-mind-system (but others might)?

what's your plan behind it, is that getting you closer to something divine/spiritual? how do you know your body-mind-system is prepared to handle it? 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by questionmark

[Romeo]

6 hours ago, liberale.ironikerin said:

ah, cool, I see. from my viewpoint (physics) energy itself is never lost but only transformed.

the concept of those energies is foreign to me. 

 

from my grasp, it still would seem not really advisable to aspire to either be like a human perpetual mobile (not needing any new energy) or the contrary (as a lack of better words) a 'john galt motor' (a machine that is not losing any energy, [but extracts it from static electricity in the air] ... ). but maybe I do not get something important here.

 

from my viewpoint, the laws of physics would advise agaist that. then again with these certain energies, it has sometimes been debated, if the laws of physics do not apply. so, - - I'm out

 

then, I do not really understand your intention behind having so much energy stuck in your body-mind-system (but others might)?

what's your plan behind it, is that getting you closer to something divine/spiritual? how do you know your body-mind-system is prepared to handle it? 

 

My goal is to become spiritual, but I also don't like to release my seeds as well. It feels draining every time I do it, and I would prefer not to do it. My body and energy feel a lot better when I'm not releasing my seeds. When I get ready to have a kid, then I will be willing to release my seeds to give birth to a child. 

[Heyoka44]

On 31/05/2021 at 2:36 PM, Creation said:

Of course, having unlimited multiorgasmic sex and deriving nothing but benefit for your spiritual path sounds nice, but it seems that it is a fantasy.  

I just want to say that i see in reddit in forums about hypnosis and similar stuff, one couple that they hypnotized each other, the guy hypnotized the girl to be super horny etc, and the girl hypnotized the guy to not to cum until she wanted after saying some word o sound, they lasted like hours... and because hypnosis is in the subconscious or unconscious mind there is not effort or struggling just relaxation. Also another guy have an ejaculatory orgasm without even touch his 🍆, just with an hypnotic audio. So this confirms that  the subconscious mind can control all the functions of the body without requiring external stimulus. It's so powerful and at the same time so dangerous, like technology, depends on who use it. But isn't fantasy just seems like until you know it. 

Also you can reach unlimited orgasms with prostate stimulation without losing semen, you can go and go and are all body orgasm far more intense than regular ejaculatory orgams and and they last as long as you want them to last.

Im just a beginner in this im sure there's much more things you can do

[Creation]

10 hours ago, Heyoka44 said:

On 5/31/2021 at 2:36 PM, Creation said:

Of course, having unlimited multiorgasmic sex and deriving nothing but benefit for your spiritual path sounds nice, but it seems that it is a fantasy.  

I just want to say that i see in reddit in forums about hypnosis and similar stuff, one couple that they hypnotized each other, the guy hypnotized the girl to be super horny etc, and the girl hypnotized the guy to not to cum until she wanted after saying some word o sound, they lasted like hours... and because hypnosis is in the subconscious or unconscious mind there is not effort or struggling just relaxation. Also another guy have an ejaculatory orgasm without even touch his 🍆, just with an hypnotic audio. So this confirms that  the subconscious mind can control all the functions of the body without requiring external stimulus. It's so powerful and at the same time so dangerous, like technology, depends on who use it. But isn't fantasy just seems like until you know it. 

Also you can reach unlimited orgasms with prostate stimulation without losing semen, you can go and go and are all body orgasm far more intense than regular ejaculatory orgams and and they last as long as you want them to last.

Im just a beginner in this im sure there's much more things you can do

Question is not is it possible, question is what effect does it have on your well being and spiritual development.  Can't answer that for you, just providing some caution derived from experience.  

Edited June 14, 2021 by Creation

[Romeo]

16 hours ago, Heyoka44 said:

I just want to say that i see in reddit in forums about hypnosis and similar stuff, one couple that they hypnotized each other, the guy hypnotized the girl to be super horny etc, and the girl hypnotized the guy to not to cum until she wanted after saying some word o sound, they lasted like hours... and because hypnosis is in the subconscious or unconscious mind there is not effort or struggling just relaxation. Also another guy have an ejaculatory orgasm without even touch his 🍆, just with an hypnotic audio. So this confirms that  the subconscious mind can control all the functions of the body without requiring external stimulus. It's so powerful and at the same time so dangerous, like technology, depends on who use it. But isn't fantasy just seems like until you know it. 

Also you can reach unlimited orgasms with prostate stimulation without losing semen, you can go and go and are all body orgasm far more intense than regular ejaculatory orgams and and they last as long as you want them to last.

Im just a beginner in this im sure there's much more things you can do

How is it possible to have unlimited orgasm with prostate stimulation? I know that if you press down on perineum

at the moment before orgasm, you can stop it from coming out. I tried it before, but I never got the timing right.

[Romeo]

6 hours ago, Creation said:

Question is not is it possible, question is what effect does it have on your well being and spiritual development.  Can't answer that for you, just providing some caution derived from experience.  

Oh, ok. Doing that can affect my well-being and health.  Also, I know somebody talked about how sexual energy is sensitive to the openness of your heart. Is there a website where I can read about that information?

[Heyoka44]

On 14/06/2021 at 4:28 PM, Romeo said:

How is it possible to have unlimited orgasm with prostate stimulation? I know that if you press down on perineum

at the moment before orgasm, you can stop it from coming out. I tried it before, but I never got the timing right.

Search in YT and reddit about prostate play, there are lot of info.

Also look this video,

It's about sex in Tao practice.
Maybe you should stop doing chia stuff, it's dangerous and probably he is not a even a taoist, cause you know "Just flow in the non-action" but at the same time you are struggling in don't letting go the semen haha. it's hypocrisy. Search better for Tantra but you can't learn all just reading books.

If you are searching for pleasure, You searching for pleasure is gonna give pain you can't separate the 2.

[Heyoka44]

On 14/06/2021 at 10:04 AM, Creation said:

Question is not is it possible, question is what effect does it have on your well being and spiritual development.  Can't answer that for you, just providing some caution derived from experience.  

Sex is natural so that it's no problem for the body unless you have it in excess like all things too much pleasure and it become pain and viceversa. "Spiritual development" i really don't understand what you mean but if you are talking of time and in time becoming better and better for who knows what motive, Search for jiddu Krishnamurti, i think i was alone and crazy for seeing the things as they are until a met JK. I always think the same but he is much better explaining. I just can't,  and don't want too

[Romeo]

On 6/18/2021 at 4:55 AM, Heyoka44 said:

Sex is natural so that it's no problem for the body unless you have it in excess like all things too much pleasure and it become pain and viceversa. "Spiritual development" i really don't understand what you mean but if you are talking of time and in time becoming better and better for who knows what motive, Search for jiddu Krishnamurti, i think i was alone and crazy for seeing the things as they are until a met JK. I always think the same but he is much better explaining. I just can't,  and don't want too

 I took a break from doing qi gong and chai's stuff. My lungs are starting to feel a lot better now. I think I had a lung infection or something. I not sure if it was qi gong or chia's stuff that caused it. Next month, I was planning on trying to do the cold draw, which is a meditation technique that lets me work with the non-aroused sexual energy. I read online that a person could not release their seeds for 30 days if they want to be successful in that exercise. I have not been releasing my seeds at this time. I think that would be a good start. When I was doing chai's stuff last time, I kept feeling warm energy in my perineum. Also, when I was talking about spiritual development, I meant that releasing your seeds too much can drain you of your sexual energy. That's why I didn't really want to release my seeds.

[markern]

On 26.5.2021 at 3:49 AM, Creation said:

Hi Romeo,

Let me take a stab at this.  There is the fairly well known possibility of having to much energy shooting up into your head, but there is a lesser known, more insidious possibility.  If you engage in these practices from a place of insecurity, lack, wish for control or power, or base indulgence, whatever energy they to cultivate and circulate will feed these psychological patterns.  Long term this can steer a person toward sexual perversity of various types - this is called "poison fire taints the heart".  And since you asked about transmutation, as soon as your jing mobilizes to pursue a base desire, it can't be transmuted, leaving it in your system is like leaving muddy, putrid water pooling up in your home.  As far as I can tell, learning to relax and breathe during sex to have a more full and satisfying experience is fine (as long as you pay attention to your psychology around it - loving connection vs base indulgence), but sexual activity plus "retention" is really misguided. 

 

Craetion, when I have seen warnings about retention leading to "poison fire taints the heart" it has been presented as happening as long as you practice retention, regardless of motivations during sex. Do you think the poison fire thing only happens if the psychology is bad or just from retaining regardless?