Chandogya Upanishad excerpt

[old3bob]

from https://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacredscripts/hinduism/upanishads/chandogya.asp

 

Eighth Prapathaka, Third Khanda:

 

...1. 'These true desires, however, are hidden by what is false; though the desires be true, they have a covering which is false. Thus, whoever belonging to us has departed this life, him we cannot gain back, so that we should see him with our eyes.

2. 'Those who belong to us, whether living or departed, and whatever else there is which we wish for and do not obtain, all that we find there (if we descend into our heart, where Brahman dwells, in the ether of the heart), There are all our true desires, but hidden by what is false. As people who do not know the country, walk again and again over a gold treasure that has been hidden somewhere in the earth and do not discover it, thus do all these creatures day after day go into the Brahma-world (they are merged in Brahman, while asleep), and yet do not discover it, because they are carried away by untruth (they do not come to themselves, i.e. they do not discover the true Self in Brahman, dwelling in the heart).

3. 'That Self abides in the heart. And this is the etymological explanation. The heart is called hrid-ayam, instead of hridy-ayam, i.e. He who is in the heart. He who knows this, that He is in the heart, goes day by day (when in sushupti, deep sleep) into heaven (svarga), 1.e. into the Brahman of the heart.

4. 'Now that serene being which, after having risen from out this earthly body, and having reached the highest light (self-knowledge), appears in its true form, that is the Self,' thus he spoke (when asked by his pupils). This is the immortal, the fearless, this is Brahman. And of that Brahman the name is the True, Satyam,

5. This name Sattyam consists of three syllables, sat-ti-yam. Sat signifies the immortal, t, the mortal, and with yam he binds both. Because he binds both, the immortal and the mortal, therefore it is yam. He who knows this goes day by day into heaven (svarga)....

Edited July 5, 2021 by old3bob

[Bhathen]

6 hours ago, old3bob said:

3. 'That Self abides in the heart.

 

Katha Upanishad

Nachiketa

" Hidden in the heart of every creature Exists the self ...."

"The thumb-sized being enshrined in the heart ...."

 

Have been reading the Upanishads by Eknath Easwaran and would like to have a better understanding of the terms Self, Atman and Brahman and the relationship to the heart. What is that which you experience in the heart in total bliss? 

 

 

 

[old3bob]

I'd say Truth and Freedom without any doubt or fear, spirit-joy beyond human sorrow or limited identity, a springing forth and also a standing still.  The "Self knows the Self by the Self" thus not by mind bound methods or senses..(which are tools but not the true identity pointed to by your two quotes above) 

Edited July 6, 2021 by old3bob

[dwai]

On 7/5/2021 at 12:20 PM, Bhathen said:

 

Katha Upanishad

Nachiketa

" Hidden in the heart of every creature Exists the self ...."

"The thumb-sized being enshrined in the heart ...."

 

Have been reading the Upanishads by Eknath Easwaran and would like to have a better understanding of the terms Self, Atman and Brahman and the relationship to the heart. What is that which you experience in the heart in total bliss? 

 

 

 

It is not really the physical heart. The spiritual heart has its center in the middle of the chest (to the right of the physical heart), but when it’s fully open, it expands to encompass everything (and eventually, the entire universe). 
 

Once I was told “sarvasya Hridayam, sadaiva hridayam” — the heart is infinite, the heart is eternal. Took me  almost 15 years to understand what that meant…
 

As far as bliss is concerned, our true nature is bliss itself. So all the blissful states borrow from the bliss of the Self.
What else is Self? It is awareness itself, which makes all knowing possible. It is existence itself, from which all objects borrow existence. 
 

How does one experience this Self? One doesn’t (not in the way one experiences other objects). The Self is our Real Nature — so we are always and already that. All it needs is a shift in perspective to realize it. But the shift in perspective takes as much effort as is required (which varies from individual to individual). For some it is a moment, for others lifetimes.

Edited July 7, 2021 by dwai

[old3bob]

"It is not really the physical heart. The spiritual heart has its center in the middle of the chest (to the right of the physical heart), but when it’s fully open, it expands to encompass everything (and eventually, the entire universe). 

Once I was told “sarvasya Hridayam, sadaiva hridayam” — the heart is infinite, the heart is eternal. Took me  almost 15 years to understand what that meant…"  by Dwai

 

Indeed, as also explained in the 1st Kanda before the 3rd in the op above "

 

FIRST KHANDA

1. Harih, Om. There is this city of Brahman (the body), and in it the palace, the small lotus (of the heart), and in it that small ether. Now what exists within that small ether, that is to be sought for, that is to be understood.

2. And if they should say to him: 'Now with regard to that city of Brahman, and the palace in it, i.e. the small lotus of the heart, and the small ether within the heart, what is there within it that deserves to be sought for, or that is to be understood.

3. Then he should say: 'As large as this ether (all space) is, so large is that ether within the heart. Both heaven and earth are contained within it, both fire and air, both sun and moon, both lightning and stars; and whatever there is of him (the Self) here in the world, and whatever is not (i.e. whatever has been or will be), all that is contained within it.'   

 

thus I'd say there is a connective matrix to the physical but THAT is in no way limited to the physical... 

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by old3bob

[Bhathen]

Thanks @dwai and @old3bob. I need more time to reflect on your replies.

In a stage of 'ananda'/ continual bliss, I have felt a finger like surge in the location of the spiritual heart. As the experience became more blissful, it was like the size of the inner projection was increasing and was wildly dancing with joy. Maybe the experience was not enough for me to realise or understand deeply.

[dwai]

1 hour ago, Bhathen said:

Thanks @dwai and @old3bob. I need more time to reflect on your replies.

In a stage of 'ananda'/ continual bliss, I have felt a finger like surge in the location of the spiritual heart. As the experience became more blissful, it was like the size of the inner projection was increasing and was wildly dancing with joy. Maybe the experience was not enough for me to realise or understand deeply.

In the context of Advaita Vedanta, ananda is not a bliss one experiences, because if it is an experience, it is not the "real" thing. I know it's hard for our minds to wrap around such a statement -- because how else do we know something normally, if not from experience?

 

There are many ecstatic experiences that one might experience - deep bliss, joy, etc. But the bliss (ananda) of Brahman/Atman, is not experienced that way. Because it is only due to syntactical reasons, we say "Bliss of Brahman/Atman", but really, Brahman/Atman is Bliss itself. How can bliss experience bliss? All bliss can do, is simply be bliss.

 

It's like asking, "how does one know that one has eyes?"