Two fold thread: civil discourse in a polarized world and dialogue between vegetarians and non-vegetarians

[TranquilTurmoil]

I am largely ignoring the vaccine thread as it seems that their is mutual resentment and toxicity there or at least I assume so as I haven’t read most of it.

 

But it brings up an interesting point and analogous comparison. Embodying principles of tolerance and coexistence in an interdependent world where some actions or inactions can lead to life and death.

 

I am staunchly pro vegetarian/vegan/ethically sourced meat and animal products. It actually broke me in college facing the horror that is factory farming and realizing almost no one around me cared or understood my guilt, grief and despair surrounding it. I have had to largely resign myself to this tragic fact of life and yield to everyone around me usually willingly enabling and supporting such practices. I instantly saw the futility of going an evangelical crusade about it. However, if you don’t speak up, how does one improve the situation?

 

I think what is essential is to work with people where they are, without condemning them self-righteously and indignantly, even as there potentially wrong views lead to what we see as immoral consequences. This takes a level of awareness, conscientiousness, compassion and emotional maturity.

 

I have the firm agenda that factory farming is terribly unethical, and that not being selective in either refraining from eating meat or buying exclusively ethically sourced products are the only two options to living a fully just life. However I would like to open up a cautious, gentle dialogue on it to see if I can gain perspective and skillful means in trying to leave my modest dent on the world, while possibly seeing if I can persuade others who might not see it as such a big deal. I hope this thread doesn’t go wrong, and I hope some find it helpful. 🙏🏼

Edited July 8, 2021 by TranquilTurmoil
Fix title

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, TranquilTurmoil said:

I am largely ignoring the vaccine thread as it seems that their is mutual resentment and toxicity there or at least I assume so as I haven’t read most of it.........

 

 

????    

 

1 hour ago, TranquilTurmoil said:

..... I hope this thread doesn’t go wrong,

 

 

Then maybe try restarting it differently without assumptions about something you have not read  ?

 

 

" 

[TranquilTurmoil]

35 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

????    

 

 

 

Then maybe try restarting it differently without assumptions about something you have not read  ?

 

 

" 

My apologies nungali. I didn't mean to diss anyone or be self righteous. I read a few pages and it seemed tense.. I even saw someone accusing other posters of harassmenr.  I wasnt trying to correct or condemn you guys, as much as I am trying to see how ppl can have difficult talks without them descending into hostility. 

 

Hopefully thus thread isn't ruined before it starts

[Nungali]

Here is how ppl can have difficult talks without them descending into hostility;    Just edit that part out and I shall delete my posts about it   ...... and no one will ever know   

[TranquilTurmoil]

But I did read part of the thread which was toxic… which is why I was inclined to not read the rest. But if it means a lot to you I will! Just feel tense and conflicted now :/

[TranquilTurmoil]

I’m one to acknowledge and try to correct my mistakes but I don’t like to try to cover up or undo anything unless there is a super compelling reason like protecting someone’s feelings. 

[Nungali]

Whatever

9 minutes ago, TranquilTurmoil said:

But I did read part of the thread which was toxic… which is why I was inclined to not read the rest. But if it means a lot to you I will! Just feel tense and conflicted now :/

 

It doesnt mean much to ME .... I was just giving you a heads up if you DONT want your thread to 'go wrong' .

 

How we start threads CAN influence their playing out  .... look at that vaccination thread, it started with a 'polarized poll ' and continued with an OP 'agenda' .

[TranquilTurmoil]

I’m not trying to solicit hostility or intensity. If you disagree that’s fine, as is feedback, but no need to to make it more than that. I use qualifiers like “not wanting the thread to go wrong “ to attempt to properly convey my sincere intention.  Much is often misinterpreted through text messages I find and im new to posting here. Other than that that is the best I can think of saying rn. 
 

to quote the I Ching “True joy is experienced by those who are strong within and gentle without”. Conscientiousness and gentleness go a long way 🙏🏼

[thelerner]

 I'm not a vegetarian but I do find the arguments that it is spiritually and ecologically better to be strong.  An old girlfriend put it simply, 'Why create pain in the world, when you don't have to?'  

 

Apparently my answer is, cause its convenient and tastes good.  I'm following my cultural norm.  Still, at my best, I minimize it.  At my worst, I ignore it.  

[TranquilTurmoil]

3 minutes ago, thelerner said:

 I'm not a vegetarian but I do find the arguments that it is spiritually and ecologically better to be strong.  An old girlfriend put it simply, 'Why create pain in the world, when you don't have to?'  

 

Apparently my answer is, cause its convenient and tastes good.  I'm following my cultural norm.  Still, at my best, I minimize it.  At my worst, I ignore it.  

I empathize with you as I did this too against my conscience for 19.5 years. However I feel like we ought not to willfully ignore our intuitive sense of right and wrong. That’s how bad things take root in ourselves and thus the world.

 

With that said true progress is almost always gradual and evolutionary rather than sudden and irreversible. Thanks for your honest answer 

Edited July 8, 2021 by TranquilTurmoil