"The foundation", jing, semen, blood and standing meditation

[Nuralshamal]

Dear Dao Bums,

I'll write this post in three parts:
1) Standing, holding your breath, sweating, jing to qi
2) Different systems and how they emphasize the body and the energy, jing and qi
3) Conclusion

1) Standing, holding your breath, sweating, jing to qi
Recently I was philosophizing about "the foundation" in alchemy, qigong and meditation.

When I have gone to train with different qigong masters, most of the other students are elderly, sickly, physically somewhat weak and the vast majority are women.

Therefore the qigong training is more gentle, pleasant and relaxing. 

However, I've recently come to realize, that this is not how these qigong masters themselves trained.

When you're young, fit, healthy and strong, qigong is not nice, pleasant and relaxing. It's brutal!

When these teachers built their own "foundation", it's usually through long, very physically difficult standing meditation.

Furthermore, it's through merciless continued breath holding.

The "jing to qi" stage of course does contain the "transformation" of semen into energy.

However, another meaning is simply that you go from "jing" (simply meaning the physical body) and to qi (the energetic body).

This is done through starting out with grueling physical work, standing and perfect physical aligments.

When you've then mastered all this, and can stand for a minimum of 10-15 minutes, you continue your standing practice until you reach 1 hour.

Then your physical body is strong, your legs are strong, your jing (understood as physical body) becomes strong.

To now take your awareness and development from mere physical training, or the jing level, you need to advance your awareness and training to the qi level. This is done through breathing.

As you stand in the posture, you continually hold your breath again and again in the exercise. As breath is related to qi, holding your breath activates your qi. 

The combination of standing for long times in particular postures with merciless continued breath holding activates and builds your qi.

You'll get warm and start sweating like crazy.

After becoming accustomed to this, your jing (physical body) will be strong from long standing, and you'll have more qi than a regular person (built through continued breath holding).

Finally, after having completed these two stages, you'll start to be able to feel the qi moving. It will first built in your dan tien, then it will start moving by itself.

After doing this for a longer period, you'll start to become aware of your own qi. Firstly inside your body, then the meridians, then the organs. Later, outside your body, in the environment, around other people, animals, trees etc.

I just realized that this is not really taught or emphasized with most teachers, because the majority of people coming are sick and elderly. They could never do this kind of training. Therefore the more gentle exercises are taught, for building and circulating the qi, clearing blockages and acheiving gentle healing and relaxation.

2) Different systems and how they emphasize the body and the energy, jing and qi
Why does most qigong alchemy systems have this progression? From the physical body, to the qi? 

This is because if you focus too much on building the higher centres, the upper dan tien, you can actually deplete your physical energy, and thereby potentially your health.

Therefore qigong systems have the idea of "overflow". You build an "abundance" of physical energy, and then you naturally let the energy overflow by itself. When the middle dan tien is then full, this overflow continues into the upper dan tien. After all dan tiens are full your development continues in spectacular ways; physical health, emotional well-being, peace of mind.

In the yoga systems, there's a similar idea. You start with asana (physical postures, giving strength and flexibility to the body), then you also do pranayama (breathing exercises), and finally you do dhyana (meditation).

However, in some yoga systems, the focus is more on the spiritual aspect (shen in qigong) than the physical body (jing). 

In Simplified Kundalini Yoga by Vethathiri Maharishi, you firstly activate the third eye chakra. This is to give the person awareness of the life force, attain peace of mind, and start to have the necessary mind-power to overcome bad habits (hurting themselves and others, physically or mentally). This is because morals are a emphasized A LOT, due to the thought of karma and of course harmony and duty to self, family and society.

However, the next chakra that is strengthened is the muladhara chakra, the root chakra, the perineum (hui yin in qigong). Muladhara literally means foundation.

Vethathiri said that everyone, no matter how spiritually advanced, must always do at least 2-3 muladhara-only meditations during the week. This is to keep the physical body strong and healthy, as well as maintaining a strong base for the rest of the energy system.

So yoga (at least Simplified Kundalini Yoga) agrees completely with the daoist view that the foundation (jing, physical body, muladhara, hui-yin) should be strong.

However, as Simplified Kundalini Yoga prioritizes peace of mind, meditation and of course morals, it's a speedier (albeit riskier in the daoist viewpoint) approach of opening the higher centres very quickly.

3) Conclusion
For me personally, I've benefitted immensely from all approaches.

The speedier approach in Simplified Kundalini Yoga was great for me, as I personally lean more towards meditation. You get tangible results very quickly, and can build up your physical and spiritual energy and awareness very fast.

The slower approach in qigong I perfectly understand, and I've benefitted a lot from the gentle, pleasant approach to circulating and building energy.

It's only the past couple of months I've realized that the brutal standing and breath holding actually has a lot of value. So it's something I've only started to experiment with. However, so far I can see it has a lot of power.

If your foundation is very strong, your spiritual abilities won't come and go, depending on grace and/or karma, or whether you deplete your energy. It will be more stable, as it will be a result of overflow.

If you go quickly into the spiritual level, and somehow deplete your physical energy, your development can go a bit topsy-turvy.

So I value and have benefitted from all approaches, but only lately have I realized the benefits hiding in brutal standing and breath holding. I wanted to share this experience with all of you.

Be blessed

Edited July 23, 2021 by Nuralshamal

[Jaba]

hold breath with or without air inside? this not dangerous if you have high blood pressure? - or high blood pressure unhealthy state?

[Nuralshamal]

@Jaba

Yes!

It can be.

Just to clarify what I mean by holding your breath: yes, 4 phases of breathing, 1) breathing in, 2) holding your breath with your lungs full of air, 3) breathing out, 4) holding your breath with your lungs completely empty, 5) repeat

Standing on one leg for a prolonged time (just as an example) puts tremendous strain on your circulatory system. This alone can make even young and healthy people faint.

When you add holding your breath (both with full lungs and empty lungs), this can make people pass out and fall over.

Simply standing in place in a particular posture for just 5-10 minutes without movement can also make you pass out.

So that's also why it's not emphasized in the usual qigong health class; it can make people faint.

When you do the repeated breath holds, you should never feel "out of breath". 

Furthermore, if you ever feel faint, you should immediately breathe normally and sit down. If very serious, lay down on your back with your legs in the air (to make the blood flow back down to the organs and brain).

I had to do this several times during a 4 day intensive workshop. I was very strong and healthy at the time, but I was about to pass out from holding my breath several times. When we worked on the Liver/Gallbladder system I got extremely nauseous and was also close to both vomiting and passing out. I had to sit down for quite some time to rest, because it was just too much.

So always be humble and take a sensible, progressive approach   

Edited July 23, 2021 by Nuralshamal

[Jaba]

47 minutes ago, Nuralshamal said:

When you do the repeated breath holds, you should never feel "out of breath". 

For claritifying, in the beginning most people should or can only hold for a few seconds? maybe as little as 2-3 second?

like breath in; hold very few moments; breathe out; hold very few moments

 

....or like longer

like breath in; hold 5-10 seconds; breathe out; hold 5-10 seconds

[Nuralshamal]

@Jaba

Yes, exactly. 

In the beginning it's very short intervals (a couple of seconds).

Later you can be in a meditative state while also holding your breath for longer periods (up to several minutes).

I know the tibetan buddhists also practice this a lot.

[senseless virtue]

18 minutes ago, Nuralshamal said:

I know the tibetan buddhists also practice this a lot.

 

This, like many other things you write, feels like it's out of touch and unrepresentative of its proper context.

 

Outside of Yantra Yoga and Tummo practices, breath retention isn't common at all in Tibetan Buddhism. Then you have omitted mentioning integral parts of these sadhanas such as muscle locks that seal the energy in certain ways and activate particular pathways. There's no way this could be comfortably compared to simple breath retention: If it were so, then free divers (and other such athletes) would be among the most accomplished yogis in the world, which is untrue.

[Nuralshamal]

@virtue you're of course welcome to have your own opinion and feeling about my writing.

I think it's always most beneficial to look at the point of something, the message of it.

My message is: holding the breath is a part of tibetan buddhist practice.

Your message is: holding the breath is a part of tibetan buddhist practice.

So, we actually completely agree on the fundamental message: holding the breath is important.

The only thing we can then discuss (if you wish) is whether they do it "a lot" like I firstly mentioned, or whether "it's not common at all" like you mentioned in your post.

"A lot" vs "it's not common at all" is of course relative, so I don't feel any need for discussing this further. The reason being, that we agree on the fundamental point, whereas it's merely the adjective we could discuss further.

Furthermore, you mentioned muscle locks. Yes, it's true, this is very important in both qigong and yoga, also tibetan buddhist practices.

Regarding free divers, due to breath work and calming the mind, they could be viewed as pretty good yogis if you ask me. So, again, it's relative to one's definition of "a yogi". Is it someone with good control of their body, breath and mind? Then a free diver is definitively a stronger yogi than an average person.

If a "yogi" is someone who's one with the Universe, God, the Divine, Dao, Brahman, The Cosmic Soul, The Void, The Emptiness, Shunya, then yes, I completely agree with you; we cannot know that from simply observing their breath holding while submerged in the ocean.

So, it all comes down to one's definition of things.

How I define "a lot" and how you define "not common at all".

How I define "a yogi" and how you define "a yogi" (free divers being the investigated case).

Personally, one of the definitions of yoga I really like is "harmony". How to be in harmony with everything and everyone. Harmony between body, breath and mind, between oneself and one's family, collegues, society, and in the end all living beings.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Nuralshamal

[senseless virtue]

50 minutes ago, Nuralshamal said:

So, we actually completely agree on the fundamental message: holding the breath is important.

 

Are you completely sure?

 

50 minutes ago, Nuralshamal said:

I don't feel any need for discussing this further.

 

As you wish.

[Nuralshamal]

That was my understanding of what you wrote.

Feel free to correct me.

As always, it's the author who knows the exact intended message.

Be blessed

[senseless virtue]

4 hours ago, Nuralshamal said:

Feel free to correct me.

 

Rest easy: The Dao Bums is not a correctional facility, and I'm not here to correct anyone.

[freeform]

22 hours ago, Nuralshamal said:

qigong is not nice, pleasant and relaxing. It's brutal!

Qigong is indeed quite difficult and uncomfortable when done in a way that’s designed to create internal ‘growth’. 
 

But it’s not because of breath holding.

 

Breath holding isn’t a part of the majority of traditional qigong or Neigong systems I’ve come across.

 

Qigong becomes difficult when your Qi is mobilised and you’re able to use your ‘internal body’ to do the movements. That’s where even pleasant relaxing looking movements feel like doing heavy weight reps.

 

The puddles of sweat under genuine qigong practitioners are the result of the movements of the ‘internal body’.

 

Unless breath holding is specifically a method in your system, please don’t attempt to stand and hold your breath. Or add it to another system you’re practicing.

 

Breath locks from the Yogic approaches are generally incompatible with Qigong and Neigong systems… they do things a little differently.

 

Oh and Jing is not sperm 

[Nuralshamal]

@freeform thanks for sharing your thoughts!!!

I agree, in the books, in the classes, it's very seldom anyone talks about the importance of breath holding. From my limited understanding, studies and experience, it's because it's actually one of the secret, key ingredients to internal alchemy.

It's seems very simple, almost too simple,. However, from my point of view, it's a treasure hiding in plain sight.

Yes, I agree, the yogic vs the qigong vs the neigong approach aim at the same target, harmony with everything and everyone, however, they work towards that aim in a little bit different manners.

They share similar principles though (from my point of view), e.g. using the body, the breath, mantras and the mind, and of course upright moral conduct.

Yes, jing! It's quite the subject I agree, saying that jing simply equals sperm is an oversimplification. However, from where I see it, sperm is very much related to one's jing.

After all, the source of our own life is the joining of the jing of our mother and father in the moment of conception, the sperm and the egg. From that original source of jing, we've built up everything. So, sperm and eggs have the power to create new life. From my perspective, it makes sense to be aware of this valuable treasure hiding inside our genital organs.
 

[Cleansox]

6 hours ago, Nuralshamal said:

@freeform it's because it's actually one of the secret, key ingredients to internal alchemy.
 

Breath stopping, perhaps, as a natural reaction to practice. 

Breath hold, probably not. 

 

There are lists of things not to do (in the Chinese tradition),I'm sure breath holding is on it. 

 

Edit:

I just saw that you in the first post called it "qigong alchemy", a term I am not familiar with, so.... 

 

Edited July 24, 2021 by Cleansox
Added stuff

[Earl Grey]

1 hour ago, Cleansox said:

Breath stopping, perhaps, as a natural reaction to practice. 

Breath hold, probably not. 

 

There are lists of things not to do (in the Chinese tradition),I'm sure breath holding is on it. 

 

 

Breath holding is also what killed Bruce Tegner, who held his breath and tensed his body. 

 

I don't know why there is such a bold certainty that this is the way to go; it's not something I've seen often in any of my Daoist or Vajra practices. I've seen slower breaths and spontaneous breathing, but generally, natural breathing is the common thing I notice that quality practices go for, not holding it in. 

 

Holding your breath isn't really something I see except for when I see the dabblers and the power seekers  and boy, do a lot of people seem to do it when they get obsessed with activating their dantian for all sorts of shits and giggles.

 

That said, I haven't had any experience with holding breath at all; even Flying Phoenix has breath control, not breath holding. 

Edited July 24, 2021 by Earl Grey

[Cleansox]

On 2021-07-23 at 11:14 AM, Nuralshamal said:

 

It would be a pity if the comments to your thread was only critiqal, especially since much of it reflects my experience as well. 

Quote

When I have gone to train with different qigong masters, most of the other students are elderly, sickly, physically somewhat weak and the vast majority are women.

Therefore the qigong training is more gentle, pleasant and relaxing. 

However, I've recently come to realize, that this is not how these qigong masters themselves trained.

When you're young, fit, healthy and strong, qigong is not nice, pleasant and relaxing. It's brutal!

When these teachers built their own "foundation", it's usually through long, very physically difficult standing meditation.

This is my experience as well. 

 

Quote

 

Furthermore, it's through merciless continued breath holding.

 

Although I would disagree about this one. 

Quote

The "jing to qi" stage of course does contain the "transformation" of semen into energy.

Using "semen" here, while possible, tend to raise objections. For example, can't women practice and get result? 

 

And, can a beginner reverse manifest semen to qi without actually loosing a lot of energy in the process? 

Quote

However, another meaning is simply that you go from "jing" (simply meaning the physical body) and to qi (the energetic body).

This is done through starting out with grueling physical work, standing and perfect physical aligments.

When you've then mastered all this, and can stand for a minimum of 10-15 minutes, you continue your standing practice until you reach 1 hour.

Then your physical body is strong, your legs are strong, your jing (understood as physical body) becomes strong.

To now take your awareness and development from mere physical training, or the jing level, you need to advance your awareness and training to the qi level. This is done through breathing.

Absolutely. 

Quote

As you stand in the posture, you continually hold your breath again and again in the exercise. As breath is related to qi, holding your breath activates your qi. 

The combination of standing for long times in particular postures with merciless continued breath holding activates and builds your qi.

Standing and relaxed breathing is enough, or reverse breath. 

I tried holding and other forceful methods when I started out, it enhances the sensation of Qi, but I felt it took away my chance to develop from what the specific stance had to offer. 

Quote

You'll get warm and start sweating like crazy.

Yes, but that will happen with natural breathing as well. 

I used to wrap a towel around me, and I had to wipe the floor after practice. 

That passed, and was long before the practice did any serious work on the Qi level. 

Quote

After becoming accustomed to this, your jing (physical body) will be strong from long standing, and you'll have more qi than a regular person (built through continued breath holding).

The last part not necessary... 

Quote

After doing this for a longer period, you'll start to become aware of your own qi. Firstly inside your body, then the meridians, then the organs. Later, outside your body, in the environment, around other people, animals, trees etc.

Absolutely. 

Quote

I just realized that this is not really taught or emphasized with most teachers, because the majority of people coming are sick and elderly. They could never do this kind of training. Therefore the more gentle exercises are taught, for building and circulating the qi, clearing blockages and acheiving gentle healing and relaxation.

Yes, the teacher adjust the practice according to the target population. 

Quote

2) Different systems and how they emphasize the body and the energy, jing and qi
Why does most qigong alchemy systems have this progression? From the physical body, to the qi? 

This is because if you focus too much on building the higher centres, the upper dan tien, you can actually deplete your physical energy, and thereby potentially your health.

Therefore qigong systems have the idea of "overflow". You build an "abundance" of physical energy, and then you naturally let the energy overflow by itself. When the middle dan tien is then full, this overflow continues into the upper dan tien. After all dan tiens are full your development continues in spectacular ways; physical health, emotional well-being, peace of mind.

Post heaven refinement, very good for the three mentioned above. 

Edited July 24, 2021 by Cleansox
Added stuff over a few hours.

[Master Logray]

Holding breath is not the so-called secret, or the key ingredient to alchemy.  It is commonly used among manual labours and made use by martial arts and Chinese stunt men.

 

Nowadays most Chi Kung systems are teaching movement forms.  It is not very possible to hold breath.  While the mainly static alchemy would view holding breath against the principle of following the natural flow.

 

[freeform]

8 hours ago, Nuralshamal said:

I agree, in the books, in the classes, it's very seldom anyone talks about the importance of breath holding. From my limited understanding, studies and experience, it's because it's actually one of the secret, key ingredients to internal alchemy.

When you don’t understand the underlying process and mechanics of alchemy, you might think that breath holding is the key, because it will create an ‘experience’… what it does however is just drive Qi upward in the body - this will certainly create a strong, tangible experience - but it’s the exact opposite of what we want to achieve.

 

Its the same with hyperventilating. Creates an experience - feels ‘powerful’ - but it does the exact opposite thing to what we’d like to achieve in alchemy.

 

Over time breath holding while standing or doing qigong movements will create stagnation in the diaphragm, depletion in the kidneys and cause the Qi to get stuck in the upper body - causing a constant fight or flight situation in the body.

 

Its fine if you want to give that a go for yourself - but advising other people that you think this is the ‘secret’ to making alchemy work is irresponsible.

There is a point in time (like @Earl Grey mentioned) where the physical breath stops of its own accord. There is no ‘holding’ of any kind in that situation. 
 

8 hours ago, Nuralshamal said:

However, from where I see it, sperm is very much related to one's jing.

So is your blood, your tears, your endocrine secretions, your cerebro-spinal fluid… these are all the physical byproducts of jing. They aren’t jing. That’s extremely important to understand. An apple and an apple tree are two different things. By mixing them up or thinking ‘they’re basically the same thing anyway’ - you will end up watering apples and eating tree branches.

[Nuralshamal]

@Cleansox

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences!

Regarding semen and women's cultivation: for women it's blood.

Some chinese teachers say "jing, qi and shen" for men, yet "xue, qi and shen" for women (xue is blood). This is to specifically state that women lose jing through blood, e.g. through menstruation and pregnancy.

If you've had different girlfriends in your lifetime, you will have noticed they menstruate very differently. I've had girlfriends that menstruate lightly for 2-3 days, and it barely affects their mood, energy levels etc.

Then I've had girlfriends that bleed heavily for 5-7 days, and they're completely miserable on all levels; physically, emotionally and mentally.

Why is there this difference in menstruation? Firstly, each individual has a unique bodily system. However, it's also health related. The healthier a woman is, the less of a toll her menstruation will take on her.

This is something that can be improved with cultivation. That's why they say "xue, qi and shen" to women (some teachers, not all).

It's the same for men regarding semen. Everyone is different in their level of semen production and sexual desire. Some can ejaculate a thousand times a day, and it never hurts them. Other people can ejaculate once in a blue moon and get dark under the eyes, get suicidal and depressed, and feel completely lethargic for days.

So each individual body is different. However, it can always be improved with cultivation.

So the principles are identical for both men and women, it's just a different emphasis, jing/semen vs xue/blood.

 @freeform

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I agree to a certain extent that forced breath holding done wrong is not necessarily ideal. However, I don't agree about how you say it unmistakenly will damage and deplete you over time. 

I agree with what you say about jing, that both blood, tears, secretions, cerebrospinal fluid etc are all related to jing. If something is related to jing, it means if you take care of it, you're indirectly also caring for your jing. Since they're related.

Regarding blood loss, e.g. through donation, this is quite rare, and definitively within our control.

Shedding tears is an activity that only happens every once in a while, and from my perspective not enough to waste away our jing.

Similarly, loss of cerebrospinal fluid only happens after an accident, or in case of medical tests or certain operations.

However, semen is particular in this regard. It's a surplus product that's habitually "evacuated" willingly. If you waste it away, you're unecessarily eating away at your jing (since semen is related to our jing, just like you also mentioned).

That's the only reason I'm specifically mentioning semen, since it's related to our jing, and it's something most willingly waste away to an unecessary degree. If done in a healthy manner, it's all fine and dandy. However, it's one of the things related to jing we can actually control, and by making sure we do it in a healthy manner, it will help guard our jing. Which is good.

[senseless virtue]

Image removed for being redundant to the discussion.

Edited August 7, 2023 by senseless virtue

[Earl Grey]

And those who jerk-off a lot in a day with no ill effects tend to be teenagers with a lot of testosterone and hormones helping their bodies grow, or the guy with two penises on reddit who needs to because he will get an inflamed prostate if he doesn’t...

 

As for holding breath, I usually don’t even notice if mine stops because it’s so slow that time seems to move slow as well in some forms I practice.

[Master Logray]

What time frame are we talking about ?  One second per breath holding or one minute?  Or 5 minute ? 

[Nuralshamal]

@Master Logray as long as it is comfortable, and doesn't leave you feeling out of breath.

In the beginning it's only a few seconds. Later, you can hold your breath comfortably for several minutes at a time, while you're in a meditative state during the exercise.

 @virtue  @Cleansox @Master Logray

Breathing is related to the qi. Let me give you a basic, western example, just to make it more relatable.

If you take a trained athlete, they will have more energy than an untrained person. Why?

1) Because they have more qi,
2) Because they have more blood.

Blood is the mother of qi. If you get more blood, it will birth more qi.
Qi is the commander of blood. It helps the blood circulate more effeciently. 

Qi without blood will over time die out.
Blood without qi will not circulate will and reach all tissues.

Someone who runs a lot will have more blood. Therefore they'll have more qi (compared to an untrained person).

Furthermore, their stores of glycogen in the liver and muscles will be larger. That means they can store more glucose (sugar), i.e. more energy from their food in their bodies.

Breath and food is always mentioned as some of the main sources of qi. If you can store more energy from your food, you have more energy. If you have bigger, stronger lungs as well as more blood, you'll also have more energy.

Someone who can hold their breath for a long time (who holds their breath regularly) will also have build up more blood than a regular, untrained person. It's a training adaptation, just like running or swimming. Therefore they'll have more qi as well.

Even from a normal, everyday western perspective, we all know that physically trained people have more energy and blood. 

I completely agree that one should be sensible and progessive in holding their breath. As always it's not black and white, it's nuanced. It's not "holding one's breath is the devil" or "holding your breath is God". It's more nuanced than that.

Holding your breath can provide great benefits - if done right (in a sensible, progressive manner). I'm sure you can also damage yourself, if you don't do it sensibly.

That's similar to everything else in our life; e.g. driving a car is a blessing, it takes us efficiently from A to B. Driving a car can also get you killed. 

However, we don't go around spouting "cars are the devil" or "cars are God". It's simply a tool. If used correctly, it's a blessing. If used incorrectly, it can get you killed.

I just wanted to nuance the debate about breath holding a bit, as well as de-mystify it (with an everyday, western, relatable example).

I hope it's clear my point of writing on this forum is sharing knowledge and experience, and not fighting or ridiculing others' point of view. 

I try to make sure every post has a point; it has knowledge and experience, or it has a nuancing of something viewed in a black and white manner. 

May you all be blessed

[Cleansox]

12 minutes ago, Nuralshamal said:

@Master Logray

 @virtue  @Cleansox @Master Logray
Breathing is related to the qi. 

Of course breathing is related to the qi, noone is disputing that as far as I can see. 

 

And breath holding, in some contexts, is a relevant method of practice. 

 

Short time breath holds/breathing out against resistance while in a low pressure isometric contraction is a very important practice when dealing with stress related reactions, the physiological research on that is clear. 

The above is depending on the practitioner also doing regulatory breathing, i. e. actively releasing the sympathetic reaction dealt with in this kind of practice. 

 

If one fails doing this, because one fails to get the parasympathetic aspects right, one of the long time conseqences is believed to be renal failure because the blood pressure system might get stuck in a higher pressure balance point. There is somewhat lack of research on that, for obvious reasons. 

 

With longer breath holds, the diver response kicks in. It is regarded as the strongest autonomic reaction we have. Because of what it does, I wouldn't personally recommend that while doing strenous isometric practice. 

 

Breath holding/stopping also have interesting effects on the mind, which also makes it useful. 

 

And I still disagree with breath holding being a key ingredient in internal alchemy, at least in the Chinese versions. 

[freeform]

12 hours ago, Nuralshamal said:

That's the only reason I'm specifically mentioning semen, since it's related to our jing, and it's something most willingly waste away to an unecessary degree. If done in a healthy manner, it's all fine and dandy. However, it's one of the things related to jing we can actually control, and by making sure we do it in a healthy manner, it will help guard our jing. Which is good.

I’m afraid you’re still stuck on the ‘manifestations’ of jing - and therefore missing what jing really is.
 

Like a tv technician trying to work out the plot of a movie in an attempt to fix the tv.

 

The understanding of jing in the west is a very very basic ‘birds and the bees’ type model of how it works.

 

Just as the reality of the full depth of the reproductive process is very different to the birds and the bees explanation, I can assure you that in genuine lineage based systems jing is not thought of as ‘basically semen’ or ‘basically blood’ or ‘basically’ anything… just as your doctor when treating you doesn’t think of you as just basically a body.

 

There is far more to jing than what you’ve been taught.

 

And if you’re the curious type that should be good news.

 

Because while too much sexual activity or chronic heavy bleeding may well be a big drain on your jing - this is just the ‘medical’ understanding for normal, uncultivated people… when ‘sealing leakages’ for cultivators, the physical is just the start… in reality, the main ‘sealing’ is something quite different, and is based on your mind rather than your bodily juices.

 

If you focus simply on the physical, then whatever you accumulate is ‘leaked out’ and dispersed on the non-physical.

[Nuralshamal]

@Cleansox

Thanks for your response

I feel like we're having a good exchange.

It's only sensible to go with what feels to be more in tune with one's body and energy, I just wanted to share my own experience.

Be blessed!