Seeking Wisdom

[cosmic4z]

I have a quandary. A situation has come up. I have recently become aware of something.

 

I am unsure as to the wisdom of acting in response to this something (and if so, what form that action may take) or to do nothing or ignore it.

 

So, seeking wisdom really.

 

I generally feel, when one is in a state of uncertainty, to do nothing, just wait for more clarity and possibly a right course of action to reveal itself, is best.

 

Also, problems come up in life, and I feel we need to find the answers within ourselves, rather than delegating the responsibility to others, to tell us what to do etc.

 

There has to be value in getting other people’s perspectives on stuff though, reflecting on that and contrasting with our own perspective?

[doc benway]

I agree with both points.

There is value in self-reliance and finding trust in openness and stillness.

There is also value in seeing others' perspectives. 

At the end of the day we are the ones that decide how to act, whether that action be spontaneous or advice of another.

From a spiritual guidance perspective, one way to know a good teacher is that they give you the tools to cultivate that self-reliance.

Be wary of a teacher that encourages dependence on their wisdom...

[Daniel]

I tend to envision wisdom like lightning striking.  When the condtions are right, it's bright and obvious.  Other times all one hears/feels is distant thunder.    When faced with a difficult decision and insight is lacking, I think it's good to listen to others and pay attention to the feelings in the heart, while at the same time accepting the lack of precision coming from these sources.

[manitou]

On 8/3/2021 at 2:42 AM, cosmic4z said:

I generally feel, when one is in a state of uncertainty, to do nothing, just wait for more clarity and possibly a right course of action to reveal itself, is best.

 

 

And this would be wei wu wei.  When I find myself asking myself what to do, the first question I ask is "what would happen if I did nothing?"  The answer, so far, has always been Do Nothing.  And then watch.  It is only when we take our hands off it that the intelligence of the universe has the opportunity to straighten things out.  I think you have the answer right in your question!

[Nungali]

On 03/08/2021 at 7:42 PM, cosmic4z said:

I have a quandary. A situation has come up. I have recently become aware of something.

 

I am unsure as to the wisdom of acting in response to this something (and if so, what form that action may take) or to do nothing or ignore it.

 

So, seeking wisdom really.

 

'Wisdom' may be an understanding that sometimes we need to act in response and sometimes do nothing , depending on the  3 principles  ( what, when, who )  , not  an overall , all the time   respond or do nothing.  Wisdom is about (in this situation)  a discernment of when to act and when not to .    Even in this one situation, whatever it is ,  the time factor ( when ) might change . Maybe it should be left alone today and dealt with tomorrow , maybe it should have been dealt with yesterday and its too late now ?

 

In any case, I feel wisdom is a result of, first,  knowledge (of the situation ),  then understanding  ( the principles behind it ) and from these; wisdom ( the realisation of what changes any action or non action might bring  about  ) .

 

 

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I generally feel, when one is in a state of uncertainty, to do nothing, just wait for more clarity and possibly a right course of action to reveal itself, is best.

 

Yes, and hopefully  any inaction is allowing the above processes to 'mull about'  in the un / conscious   the right action is revealed . But that should be a process of 'mediation' , not a feeling of being 'overwhelmed ' at having to make a decision .

 

 

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Quote

 

Also, problems come up in life, and I feel we need to find the answers within ourselves, rather than delegating the responsibility to others, to tell us what to do etc.

 

There has to be value in getting other people’s perspectives on stuff though, reflecting on that and contrasting with our own perspective?

 

 

Yes, there is value in getting other perspectives   and also observing others actions . We dont have to make every mistake 'in he book'  ourselves  to learn ,  observation can be a good teacher  as well as personal  experience

 

 

 

 

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Edited August 8, 2021 by Nungali

[manitou]

LOL.  Do Nothing.

[Nungali]

On 09/08/2021 at 8:48 AM, manitou said:

LOL.  Do Nothing.

 

laughing out loud is doing something

[manitou]

I know, right??

 

The thing about wu-wei is that it's difficult to explain.  the Not-Doing is done on dynamics, not on brushing your teeth.

[Nungali]

 I think its a translation issue . It can mean various things depending on source and context - without that it is hard to define  . For example it can describe a 'lofty '   behaviour or spirit , being 'above the affairs of the   mere human world '   OR   virtually the opposite ; the way of  gaining control of human affairs by subtle manipulations .

 

The difficulty might be figuring out which one  ... especially when the term seems to encompass  both  effortless action and inaction .

 

I think  it is a similar situation with the term 'no mind'  . 

[manitou]

19 hours ago, Nungali said:

 I think its a translation issue . It can mean various things depending on source and context - without that it is hard to define  . For example it can describe a 'lofty '   behaviour or spirit , being 'above the affairs of the   mere human world '   OR   virtually the opposite ; the way of  gaining control of human affairs by subtle manipulations .

 

The difficulty might be figuring out which one  ... especially when the term seems to encompass  both  effortless action and inaction .

 

I think  it is a similar situation with the term 'no mind'  . 

 

 

What you've described here, as I see it, is the very same thing it says in the DDJ, where we can opt for either of the two perspectives.  From the perspective of the One, where we're all the same entity, or entrenched in the affairs of the human world.  When viewing from the loftier position, I feel like I'm sitting on the bleachers at a rodeo.

 

Taking it further, the inaction that may be required (for purposes of subtle manipulation) is often seen in the One position, but applied in the human drama situation.

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by manitou

[liminal_luke]

When contemplating a course of action, consider the source.  Does the impulse towards action spring from muddled emotions, fear or greed?  Or does the potential action emerge out of a quiet, still, spacious connection with our larger Self?  I think of this later category of action (or inaction) as Wu-Wei.  The wisest actions are not performed so much by us as through us.

Edited August 11, 2021 by liminal_luke

[manitou]

On 8/10/2021 at 2:12 PM, Nungali said:

The difficulty might be figuring out which one  ... especially when the term seems to encompass  both  effortless action and inaction .

 

 

It's pretty easy, IMO.  When I ask myself What should I do here?' in regard to the appropriate situation, the answer is always Do Nothing from that point.  It's a certain type of dynamic that it works well on.  Strife, within the household. for example.  It doesn't mean Don't take out the trash when she asks you to and use that moment to rebel against teenage phantoms.  Rather,  it means acknowledging that nature, the natural, will happen on its own.  This is when we take our hands off the steering wheel.  Life is suddenly seen as the whole living entity that it is.  A type of surrender to realism happens; we rise up out of the stream and observe it from a higher point.  We stop running interference for them, and we stop the co-dependence of doing for him what he was capable of doing for himself.  Folks stuck in this cycle understand what I'm saying.

 

Like my car.  I love her, her name is Rosie and she has pretty rose floor mats. She's a Prius and I hope I have her until the wheels fall off; although I'll probably replace them too.  Since my own personal Shift, I see her differently.  I feel a feeling when I get in and put my hands on the steering wheel.  I caress the airbag holder in front of me.  I actually feel a loving energy going out to her and the strange feeling is that it feels like it was connecting into the One Energy.  And I feel something like love or gratitude maybe glowing in my heart.  Like it's being received by me from Rosie.

[silent thunder]

I've always appreciated the translation of wei wu wei as 'action without forcing'

[cosmic4z]

Thank you to everyone who has responded. You have all given me things to contemplate and mull over. Super appreciate it. The comment relating to where an impulse to act is coming from, felt very much pertinent to my situation. It's been a few weeks now; but I remember back then, questioning my own motive for action (and reasons for feeling how I do about the situation).

 

I haven't taken any action thus far; but I still feel the situation persists and is unresolved.

 

I believe I felt (and still do feel) somewhat slighted or diminished by my discovery. How I am feeling though, is built on top of residual feelings of belittlement (in relation to one person) that have been brewing for decades. So I am perhaps reacting to my own history and stored resentment.

[manitou]

4 hours ago, cosmic4z said:

Thank you to everyone who has responded. You have all given me things to contemplate and mull over. Super appreciate it. The comment relating to where an impulse to act is coming from, felt very much pertinent to my situation. It's been a few weeks now; but I remember back then, questioning my own motive for action (and reasons for feeling how I do about the situation).

 

I haven't taken any action thus far; but I still feel the situation persists and is unresolved.

 

I believe I felt (and still do feel) somewhat slighted or diminished by my discovery. How I am feeling though, is built on top of residual feelings of belittlement (in relation to one person) that have been brewing for decades. So I am perhaps reacting to my own history and stored resentment.

 

 

But now that you're in Awareness that you are actually the manifester of all things in your life, life will bring to you at a comfortable pace those dynamics which have been in your way for years.  Use any moment of strife or anger or impatience as the very moment to turn your focus inward and see where it's coming from.  There's usually a tiny childhood memory lurking; some particular little moment.  If you are in Awareness that the very memory of childhood that comes back is most likely where the dynamic started, that's often enough - the awareness alone - to modify your reactions to future occurrences.  Sometimes the memory is a very strong imprint; if that's the case, there's always a way to 'change the imprint' to the opposite, by performing some ceremonial ritual that emphasizes the opposite dynamic.  Sometimes this takes a couple rituals.

 

Example - a friend of mine had a horrible memory of his father, a mean man that wouldn't hug his kids.  His memory is of his dad turning his back on him when he was real young as he was running up to him.  Apparently it was a very painful moment for the little boy.  This has affected his relationships throughout his lifetimes.   And at key moments in his adult life, when things weren't going well, this little memory would pop in.

 

When we did a reverse imprint on him, I had him run up to me  (in the mindset of a little kid) and I would warmly hug him, pretending to be the father.  We did this several times.  It sounds odd, but if the dynamic can be rehearsed in the opposite direction, the reaction starts to change.  He lost the constant vibration of fear of rejection or abandonment (resulting in a lot of co-dependency) in his chest.

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by manitou

[helpfuldemon]

It sounds as though you suspect something but arent sure, and are afraid to act on it because you might be wrong.  This question is too vague, only you can answer this.

[manitou]

On 8/12/2021 at 11:52 AM, silent thunder said:

I've always appreciated the translation of wei wu wei as 'action without forcing'

  

What's an instance of this?  That has such a peaceful, easy feeling....I know you won't let me down.

[cosmic4z]

On 19/08/2021 at 9:26 PM, helpfuldemon said:

It sounds as though you suspect something but arent sure, and are afraid to act on it because you might be wrong.  This question is too vague, only you can answer this.

 

This is true, I'm questioning the validity of what I'm feeling, or really, the reasons for why I'm feeling what I'm feeling. I appreciate I'm being vague too; so it's difficult to offer specific advice. Part of me is feeling, if I ask others what to do, I'm kind of out-sourcing a decision I should be making myself (when perhaps others are not fully aware of all the ins and outs and history). Maybe it's better to make our own decisions, even if they are wrong or misguided, as we'll never learn from our own mistakes if we don't...

 

However, I also feel I want to be more specific. It's a complex situation though, feels like a tangled knot with lots of threads, that need gently and skillfully prying apart in the right order. There's multiple perspectives (literally several people involved) and ways of looking at this.

 

It could well be that I'm out of order, for making it in to any kind of issue (if only in my own head and on this thread).

 

I've got something else (unrelated) going on at the moment too, mom has just gone in to hospital; but I'll try and expand more on the situation as soon as I can.

Edited August 21, 2021 by cosmic4z

[manitou]

 

What are you afraid would happen if you did nothing?

[thelerner]

22 hours ago, manitou said:

 

What are you afraid would happen if you did nothing?

Important question.  There's a yang (I was going to write masculine) default to 'do something'.  When the best course is relaxed observation.  Not ignoring, but letting things play out and keeping an eye on them.  Possibly strategizing other moves, but for now keeping chill.  

[manitou]

3 hours ago, thelerner said:

Possibly strategizing other moves, but for now keeping chill.  

 

 

This is the very scale that is the struggle.   I'm finding more and more that when I set up a strategy of what I think would work best, I'm closing off other possibilities.  I really am to the point of letting it all come to me naked and raw.  When we stop the dynamic, whatever it is, it gets to lay there on the floor where everybody can see exactly what it is.  Our greatest 'fears' about what could possibly happen are exposed as what they are - just fears.  Karma is allowed to play out on its own without any help from me, despite how much I may want to protect the person who must suffer the consequences of a prior condition or action.

 

And sometimes it's interpreted as lack of love or emotion.  It is not.  The love is a greater one, the understanding of oneness - and realizing that for us to come in and try to control anything is just to delay that which must be.

[cosmic4z]

So, I really wanted to thank everyone who posted on this thread; thank you for sharing your thoughts and insights, it's appreciated.

 

The situation hasn't changed; but how invested I am in it, certainly has. Time seems to have this effect. What churns our 'noodle' one day / week / month - is a faint memory the next.

 

I think this thing, it must have affronted my sense of right, and also, there's probably a greed (concern for the future) element to it.

 

I suspect, letting go and not giving a flying **** was the response that the situation required of me.

 

Thanks once again all.