Mysticism

[helpfuldemon]

27 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Well, this  ' bad spirit '  or  ' hallucination of a lower order '   didnt claim itself to be  JHVH , but the aversion to bible reading is  one of the 'indicators' .

 

" All of the lower order are irreligious or anti-religious. Some actively interfered with the patients' religious practices. .....   Their malevolence and persistence in undermining the patient was striking. And why would they consistently be unreligious or anti-religious? Just the mention of religion provokes anger or derision from them. "

 

https://selfdefinition.org/hearing-voices/articles/wilson-van-dusen-presence-of-spirits-in-madness.htm

 

 

 

Yes, I read that article.  It seems I am one of those that have lesser demons possess them.  

 

I don't know why the Gods took notice in me.  I was a simple man, and not very educated. I was poor but not evil, though I cannot say I was very good either.  Just kind of an average, neutral person.  

[Nungali]

1 minute ago, helpfuldemon said:

 

 

Yes, I read that article.  It seems I am one of those that have lesser demons possess them.  

 

I don't know why the Gods took notice in me.  I was a simple man, and not very educated. I was poor but not evil, though I cannot say I was very good either.  Just kind of an average, neutral person.  

 

 

many of the questions you have asked are answered in that article , including remedies  - which is why I originally drew your attention to it .

 

But, somehow, it doesnt seem to have 'clicked' with you .     Its not about 'God's taking an interest'  in you , it is immaterial if you are 'simple' or  complex, 'not very educated' or highly intelligent , rich or poor .   'Average'  ...  happens to 'the best and worst' of us :

 

" The average layman's picture of the mentally ill as raving lunatics is far from reality. Most of these people have become entangled in inner processes and simply fail to manage their lives well. ... aside from occasional odd bits of behavior, the patients have most of their powers and appear like almost everyone else.  ...

 

" Most would be like the patients on the hospital grounds who strike the visitor as not unlike themselves. A conversation with one of these patients might indicate to the visitor that the patient has an unusual set of beliefs—for instance, that he is kept in the hospital by a gang of thieves, or that ordinary clouds are radiation pollution. In many, even unusual beliefs would not be apparent.  "

[Daniel]

54 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

I don't know why the Gods took notice in me.  I was a simple man, and not very educated. I was poor but not evil, though I cannot say I was very good either.  Just kind of an average, neutral person.  

 

The demons are actually you.  They're a part of your own personality.  They're inner-demons.  Most people have them.  You know, "skeletons in the closet"   It's known that these inner demons bubble up to the surface from time to time.  Meditation can trigger it, studying certain topics can trigger it.  It can happen to anyone really.  I'm guessing that your deep contemplation on mystical topics had the same effect as transcendental meditation.  As you dissassociated, you were confronted with your own inner demons.  It goes with the territory.

Edited September 1, 2021 by Daniel

[helpfuldemon]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

 

many of the questions you have asked are answered in that article , including remedies  - which is why I originally drew your attention to it .

 

But, somehow, it doesnt seem to have 'clicked' with you .     Its not about 'God's taking an interest'  in you , it is immaterial if you are 'simple' or  complex, 'not very educated' or highly intelligent , rich or poor .   'Average'  ...  happens to 'the best and worst' of us :

 

" The average layman's picture of the mentally ill as raving lunatics is far from reality. Most of these people have become entangled in inner processes and simply fail to manage their lives well. ... aside from occasional odd bits of behavior, the patients have most of their powers and appear like almost everyone else.  ...

 

" Most would be like the patients on the hospital grounds who strike the visitor as not unlike themselves. A conversation with one of these patients might indicate to the visitor that the patient has an unusual set of beliefs—for instance, that he is kept in the hospital by a gang of thieves, or that ordinary clouds are radiation pollution. In many, even unusual beliefs would not be apparent.  "

This guy doesn't sound to have a very sympathetic view of the mentally ill.  It's more than just hallucinations and unusual beliefs.  

[helpfuldemon]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

 

The demons are actually you.  They're a part of your own personality.  They're inner-demons.  Most people have them.  You know, "skeletons in the closet"   It's known that these inner demons bubble up to the surface from time to time.  Meditation can trigger it, studying certain topics can trigger it.  It can happen to anyone really.  I'm guessing that your deep contemplation on mystical topics had the same effect as transcendental meditation.  As you dissassociated, you were confronted with your own inner demons.  It goes with the territory.

When you are in the throes of delusion, you cannot understand that you are creating the hallucinations.  They take possession of you and you respond to them as if they are real.

[manitou]

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

It must have activated ' boko-maru' ? 

 

 

Yes.   With the movie screen.  Or maybe it was whenever Hugh Jackman was on the screen.  Come to think of it....

[manitou]

1 hour ago, helpfuldemon said:

This guy doesn't sound to have a very sympathetic view of the mentally ill.  It's more than just hallucinations and unusual beliefs.  

 

 

What he realizes, is that we are always in a state of manifesting.  Somehow we have created exactly what we've got, through will, even if that will takes you around in circles.  I know of a lady who repeatedly manifests victimhood.  There's always a reason for why something isn't going to work.  It is now her identity.  People buy into it for a while, then they cut her loose.  She creates a no-win situation for herself by cogitating everything to death.  We've talked about this, and apparently this tendency started as a young girl, needing attention from her dad.  Almost like a lifetime passive-aggression that has worked against her pretty badly.  

 

We have the choice of what we manifest; however, we have to get rid of the shadows first.  That means looking at ourselves each and every time we get into an iffy situation, and seeing exactly what part we played in it.  That's a good place to start for anybody.

  

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, helpfuldemon said:

When you are in the throes of delusion, you cannot understand that you are creating the hallucinations.  They take possession of you and you respond to them as if they are real.

I hear you.

 

Earlier in the thread you mentioned a device and some wires inside your body.  Those are part of the delusion or hallucination?

[helpfuldemon]

25 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I hear you.

 

Earlier in the thread you mentioned a device and some wires inside your body.  Those are part of the delusion or hallucination?

The doctor thinks so, I don't.  I watched as these wires were put into me, they're not hallucinations, although from looking at my body there is nothing wrong.  I think I live in another place as well as here.  Either that, or the Gods can manipulate some part of our body without interfering with our physical selves.

[helpfuldemon]

37 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

 

 

We have the choice of what we manifest; however, we have to get rid of the shadows first.  That means looking at ourselves each and every time we get into an iffy situation, and seeing exactly what part we played in it.  That's a good place to start for anybody.

  

That sounds nice, but I am not in control of these manifestations.  I could possibly control how I manage them if I am healthy enough in mind to control what they make me think is going on.  I've learned to ignore it but I don't know if I can keep that up, it's new for me to ignore, and I haven't been psychotic since I started doing it.  Like I said though, ideas and emotional elation/despair cause the wires to act up, and then the voices come.  I don't know if they will come again, I have to do my best to stay silent and calm.

[Daniel]

29 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

The doctor thinks so, I don't.  I watched as these wires were put into me, they're not hallucinations, although from looking at my body there is nothing wrong.  I think I live in another place as well as here.  Either that, or the Gods can manipulate some part of our body without interfering with our physical selves.

 

That's the definition of a hallucination:  seeing things that didn't happen.  What is different about the device and the wires vs. the other experiences which are understood to be hallucinations?

 

Regarding living in another place, that sounds very stressful.  Have you discovered anything which grounds to this reality? 

 

I hope you don't mind the questions.  All of this is facinating to me.  

[helpfuldemon]

There are hallucinations that I test to see if they are real.  I know that I could probably create them.  Then there are things that happen that are unexpected and catch me off guard that I am sure I didn't create.  The spirit entering me and using my body and hand to draw out the symbol- my first encounter- was not of my creation.  The voice that responded to me was not of my creation.  The vision that I had after contemplating chaos was not of my creation.  The wires was not of my creation.  These things happened to me outside of myself.  I have had a few other instances of hearing voices that I am convinced were not of my creation.  The things I consider hallucinations may not be, but I allow myself to believe that they are because I know that when my mind is liberated by these wires that my imagination gets carried away.  I do think there is something real to them though- sort of like in a dream where the Gods set the scene and you  play it out.  

 

I do not know why a God or anyone would bother doing this to me.  I wish I could say it was all my imagination and forget about Gods and demons.  I wish I had just fallen sick and started hallucinating without the Divine elements, then I could just say I am sick.

 

There is no justice for me.  What has been done to me has been exceptionally cruel.  There is no escaping it, and I cannot retaliate.  I simply have to endure.

[Daniel]

42 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

I do not know why a God or anyone would bother doing this to me.  I wish I could say it was all my imagination and forget about Gods and demons.  I wish I had just fallen sick and started hallucinating without the Divine elements, then I could just say I am sick.

 

There is no justice for me.  What has been done to me has been exceptionally cruel.  There is no escaping it, and I cannot retaliate.  I simply have to endure.

 

Well, in that regard, one motive of a malicious spirit would be to derail your life.  Granting wishes and prophecy at first, then without warning revoking those same blessings.  Initial feelings of elation are only a build-up for the inevitable knock-down that comes when the divine revelation ends.  There is no explanation, there is no closure, depression seems like a natural result.

 

I'm sorry to say that there is no unlearning, as far as I know.  These malicious archetypes are old and universal.  Once one learns about them, it's hard to ignore their influence.  The key, imo, is not to value their judgements.

[helpfuldemon]

I'm learning not to look to them, especially not as friendly types.  Their words are cold and frank, and they don't show me any mercy when I am at my worst with what they do.  I have a large marker board I bought to teach myself, and now on it are the words "The demons aren't your friends".  It took a long time to realize this, nearly twenty years.  I was always optimistic that something good would come from all of this, probably why I am still alive.  Thankfully it is subsided now and I am stable more or less, though uncomfortably so- I still have symptoms of the wiring that keeps me in a bad place.  

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, helpfuldemon said:

There are hallucinations that I test to see if they are real.

 

13 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

I'm learning not to look to them, especially not as friendly types.

 

When they present themselves, ask them for my mothers maiden name.  If they can't answer, then they're not really divine.

[helpfuldemon]

It's not like that, there is no QnA lol.  They say what they want and I respond, but they don't reply to what I say.  

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

This guy doesn't sound to have a very sympathetic view of the mentally ill.  It's more than just hallucinations and unusual beliefs.  

 

He had a sympathetic enough view to spend his life helping them and trying an approach that no one else would - that is ; giving them some validity .

 

This is why you confuse me , you seem to be refusing input from that article ;  dismissing it ,   not actually reading it , etc ,

 

he is saying to us that it IS a lot more than hallucinations and  'unusual beliefs '   you didnt seem to understand the CONTEXT of that citation .

 

Oh well ; ' can lead a horse to water .......'

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

When you are in the throes of delusion, you cannot understand that you are creating the hallucinations.  They take possession of you and you respond to them as if they are real.

 

and that is also taken into account  by Dr Van Dusen !   The remedy involves  seeing other forces in the psyche as real too !  The 'Higher entities'  or in psychiatric terms ' the higher order hallucinations '    - dont be fooled by the use of the term hallucination here , and in Van Dusen's work .    If you actually READ the article you know what I mean .

 

or if you have read it , it has not sunk in in any way at all .

 

I guess YOU have to decide if you really want to change the way you are , or are you 'comfortable in your torment ' ?

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

That's the definition of a hallucination:  seeing things that didn't happen.  What is different about the device and the wires vs. the other experiences which are understood to be hallucinations?

 

Regarding living in another place, that sounds very stressful.  Have you discovered anything which grounds to this reality? 

 

I hope you don't mind the questions.  All of this is facinating to me.  

 

 

They are also VERY good positive questions for examination , especially the bolded ... this is crucial !

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

 

When they present themselves, ask them for my mothers maiden name.  If they can't answer, then they're not really divine.

 

They cant even answer as to what THEIR OWN name is !  That is magical evocation 101  .... and vanDusen observes this as well .

 

If the di give a name for themselves, then it can be analysed , to get their 'I.D.' , 'flavour' , hierarchy , etc .

 

''Divine'' or 'good spiritual beings ' or 'hallucinations of a high order'  do not give names  to themselves , they may state a title or an office or a force   eg " I am the force of living water " .  VanDusen also acknowledges this   .... by the way , his acknowledgements come from what he found out in his clinical trials and interviews with patients and their 'hallucinations' .

 

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

It's not like that, there is no QnA lol.  They say what they want and I respond, but they don't reply to what I say.  

 

What if you tell them that you are no longer going to 'respond'  if they dont start replying to what you say .

 

- bu you are not going to do that , are you ?

[helpfuldemon]

They aren't looking for a response, or a conversation.  I talk to them because I thought they were there for me to talk with, but as I said, I see this isn't the case.  Talking to them just makes my delusions worse and I am not going to do it anymore.  It's hard not to do though, especially since I have been doing it for so long.  

[Nungali]

Errr , yeah, I should have guessed that answer .

 

I think what we have here is someone who is so used to being a passenger in the car, they never learnt to drive it,  nor will consider that they could  .

 

Good luck with  ....  whatever  .

[Daniel]

22 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

It's not like that, there is no QnA lol.  They say what they want and I respond, but they don't reply to what I say.  

 

15 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

They aren't looking for a response, or a conversation.  I talk to them because I thought they were there for me to talk with, but as I said, I see this isn't the case.  Talking to them just makes my delusions worse and I am not going to do it anymore.  It's hard not to do though, especially since I have been doing it for so long.  

 

Have you ever asked them  direct question?  It would be interesting to determine whether or not they have any knowledge beyond your own.

[helpfuldemon]

I was in the habit of asking yes or no questions and they would shake or nod my head in response, but after testing it I found that it is just me anticipating their reply.  There have been very rarely voices dreams and visions that reveal things I did not know, but that is rare and it hasn't happened for awhile.  Frankly I am done with this and I don't want it anymore.