Teaching authentic neigong

[Earl Grey]

1 minute ago, 小梦想 said:

not standing quietly at all.

 

I know what you're talking about...and it's most definitely not the same as the Zhan Zhuang I practice and teach from Xin Yi. 

 

Neigong is totally different from the martial practice I do. 

 

It affects my body differently and I would treat it as a separate practice from martial Zhan Zhuang. 

[Taomeow]

小梦想, thanks for offering an interesting course.  I've a couple of questions if you don't mind:

 

1. Have you ever taught this course for free, just to alpha test it, before making it into a paid service?  In my experience, knowing things and teaching things are not the same by a long shot.  One might want to start with freebies just to learn about one's own strengths and weaknesses as a teacher, about what to expect of different kinds of students besides/in addition to/in excess of the money (some will pleasantly and some, unpleasantly surprise you), hone one's teaching and troubleshooting skills, catch the bugs and do one's best to eliminate them, get one's teacher's (or teachers') encouragement and endorsement -- they might have an idea of whether you are ready to teach regardless of how good you are at learning.  

 

2. Have you ever taught this course to females?  Are you aware of any female practitioners?  Of any contraindications, special considerations, modifications, etc.?   

[Andy_W]

Thanks this does sound like an interesting course. 

 

I wonder if the training involves really low stances, just not sure my knees would like that.

I practice zhan zhuang with the focus on tendon strength development, it would be interesting to have some tangible dantian cultivation added to the mix. 

 

You mention the foundation can be developed for health alone, as oppose to emitting qi; are there any contraindications, possible negative health effects?

 

all the best

Andy

 

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I would like to learn how to heal sick people. Is it possible to use this system to heal diseases? If the answer is yes, which ailments can be cured? 

[idquest]

Cost is reasonable for the authentic method. The problem is that the goal - faqi - is not really inspiring. How do we move forward with accumulation of qi:

- applications

- higher level practices (middle and upper DT) and the central channel.

Are they too far away from the accumulation of qi stage?

[小梦想]

10 hours ago, Taomeow said:

小梦想, thanks for offering an interesting course.  I've a couple of questions if you don't mind:

 

1. Have you ever taught this course for free, just to alpha test it, before making it into a paid service?  In my experience, knowing things and teaching things are not the same by a long shot.  One might want to start with freebies just to learn about one's own strengths and weaknesses as a teacher, about what to expect of different kinds of students besides/in addition to/in excess of the money (some will pleasantly and some, unpleasantly surprise you), hone one's teaching and troubleshooting skills, catch the bugs and do one's best to eliminate them, get one's teacher's (or teachers') encouragement and endorsement -- they might have an idea of whether you are ready to teach regardless of how good you are at learning.  

 

2. Have you ever taught this course to females?  Are you aware of any female practitioners?  Of any contraindications, special considerations, modifications, etc.?   

 Thank you for the useful considerations.

 

1.  I have involved in teaching neigong for years now and have personally taught many people. I just never charged for it and always gave people the step up practice from what they were doing because I liked them and wanted to help. I am unfortunately all to familiar with some kinds of students, some kinds of problems that occur. Some people doing this training will get problems due to their own personal health and luckily I have been learning tcm for a good 8 years and have studied it formally for nearly 5 years. I have also been the translator for many foreign groups visiting various chinese doctors/masters, meaning every single conversation, every comment, goes through me. Trust me I know the kind of person who goes to learn for 6 months, leaves and starts teaching themselves who run into problems. I don't believe I fall into that category but I do appreciate you consideration and recommendations as they were clearly said in a positive helpful manner.

 

Doing it on zoom will be new and will see how it goes, I think it will feel really strange truth be told.

 

2. I know a lot of female practitioners who do neigong, who do the kind of practices that i will show. There are one or two considerations but nothing to serious. For the most part, if any issues arise with either men or woman, it's normally due to their own personal health issues. The practices are safe and the ones that aren't that require you to be healthy and strong, they come later and won't be taught to just anyone.

 

I do think people might have the wrong idea about what I am offering. It's not a laid out long term course that you do in sequence as some neigong books outline. It's the practices needed to build a strong dantian and qi, and for those who wish to learn it, eventually emitting it. Those who don't care about faqi can keep their qi and use it solely for healh and higher level practices. But they are single methods you will do every day for the next 10 years, it's a daily practice that does not change and does not become something else. Building up the dantian takes years and years of daily practice so you will do the same practice you learn in level 1 for the next 10 years, it doesn't change, we just add some things onto as your progress.

There is a misconception though that neigong and higher levels of qi will massively increase your health. This is only half true. Yes increased levels of qi will boost your body, but your lifestyle and more importantly, your mindset can completely ruin your health while you are doing even the best neigong there is. It's something I will be talking about and making people aware.

[小梦想]

9 hours ago, Andy_W said:

Thanks this does sound like an interesting course. 

 

I wonder if the training involves really low stances, just not sure my knees would like that.

I practice zhan zhuang with the focus on tendon strength development, it would be interesting to have some tangible dantian cultivation added to the mix. 

 

You mention the foundation can be developed for health alone, as oppose to emitting qi; are there any contraindications, possible negative health effects?

 

all the best

Andy

There are no low stances, your knees should be ok.

 

The foundation work has no negative effects on health, but later, when you start getting to the higher levels there are definitely things you need to be aware of. You can really damage yourself by accident if you weren't explained how things work and what to avoid. This only comes into play for those who want to learn to faqi, anything prior to that point is safe and beneficial to health.

 

One constant for me has always been, if I not with my teacher, do not faqi, it's dangerous and you need to learn your limits. The horrible technicality that was never even considered are practices where you supposedly have universal energy flow through you and you emit that into people, not personal qi. But, once you get to the higher levels, it doesn't work this way and you can really injure yourself which is what I did and I am still recovering from this.

Those who eventually want to learn faqi, will have a serious conversation prior to starting the practices to outline the restrictions and dangers involved. I never want anyone to go through what I have had to deal with the last year. This thread has been to see how people feel about it, it looks like i will move forward so will explain this prior to even teaching the first level for those interested in faqi. Those who aren't don't need to worry about.

[小梦想]

7 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

I would like to learn how to heal sick people. Is it possible to use this system to heal diseases? If the answer is yes, which ailments can be cured? 

yes, I have seen some real miracles being achieved with a mixture or qi, herbs and acupuncture. 

 

But, if don't have a degree in tcm, it's not something that you will learn easily. Treatment is more than just the use of qi, qi only enhances the effects of herbs and acupuncture. Some things can be dealt with with only qi, but for the most part, those who wish to use this for healing, which i am 100% willing to teach later on, will need to come from a medical background.

[小梦想]

3 hours ago, idquest said:

Cost is reasonable for the authentic method. The problem is that the goal - faqi - is not really inspiring. How do we move forward with accumulation of qi:

- applications

- higher level practices (middle and upper DT) and the central channel.

Are they too far away from the accumulation of qi stage?

 

In most neigong, qigongs, the first step in the formation and cultivation of the lower dantian. In my opinion this is missing from the west. So, for the time being, I am focusing on that because it takes a long time to do and will keep people busy for a good 10 years.

My progress is exceptionally fast because of assistance from teachers. I have had my channels enlarged and opened again and again, I have had my qi boosted many times. My progress and speed isn't indicative of what you can achieve by yourself.

 

I fully intend to help the serious students down the line when we get there, but I need to highlight the fact that dantian development does not happen quickly. It's a slow painful process that becomes quicker and quicker as you go on, but the start, the first few years, is really slow. This does not mean you won't feel qi strongly very quickly, it just means that dantian storage happens slowly. Health will have a big impact on this too. Someone with weak kidneys might take twice as long as someone who is healthy to cultivate qi to the same level.

 

There are also supplementing practices which I will highlight, basic stillness meditation is a must, though I don't include is as the main practices that will be taught, they will be shown and made clear how important they are to development. 

 

For those who do reach the required level where they can and want to advance to higher level practices, these most likely be made available with my main teacher. We have been talking about this for the past 2 years and later on lineage specific training will become available to those who would like to take it. I am just encouraging him to keep the costs reasonable and will see how things go in this regards.

Please don't worry though, any practice you do with me will give you a headstart if the above happens. The core aspect of the training is the same and you will start with dantian development for the first 5-10 years before moving onto anything higher level, and this is only if you reach the required level to be able to move on.

 

What i mean with core aspect is this. Accumulating qi and refining it has many variations of the same practice. Some have different feet placement, some have different hand movements, some slighty different breathing, but the core part, the main thing you are doing is the same. Once the dantian storage function is active, basic stillness meditation will generate and accumulate a lot of qi, it just won't be refined, but you can cultivate a lot with just basic stillness.

The qi accumulated in this way is liquidy, dense and hard to move. Once you refine it it becomes softer, gentler and takes on a mist like quality. It starts to fill the meridians and the skin develops this 1-2 inch thick mist of qi which keeps sick/cold qi out of your body as it sticks to it. Those who practice long enough will see what I mean. 

[小梦想]

Ok, so it seems there are enough people who are interested so I will make a description of the seminar and costs in my PPD, have some control there.

 

I will offer both methods of payment, those who wish a one time learn some methods to cultivate the dantian without being locked into a specific practice or person can do so. Others who prefer the group chat monthly subscription can do that too.

I am thinking to hold in the weekend 18-19 September 2021. Please let me know if there is some random holiday or event which would make this difficult and we will move it back one week.

 

I haven't used zoom much but I think we can make it work.

[小梦想]

 

[小梦想]

I have been notified by a few people now that they can't see my ppd, so i will post the details here too.

 

Neigong Seminar

Date:

18-19 September 2021 (Saturday and Sunday)

Cost:

Option 1: $500 with one month access to the group chat
Option 2: $300 with $50 a month ongoing payment for a group chat where we can discuss the practice, help with questions, support each other, do video chats for review, etc.

 

Time:

18 September 10PM Beijing time for about 2-3 hours.

19 September 10PM Beijing time for about 2-3 hours.

This should be early morning for the Americas, afternoon for the EU and late for those in NZ and Australia.

 

Platform:

Zoom online meeting.

 

Content:

Main Seminar
Foundation practices for activating the lower dantian, cultivating and refining qi. I will also be explaining the practices and habits that supplement the above and will help you get the most out of it along with ways to improve health and wellbeing.

 

Group chat (Telegram or Watsapp)

We will do a 1 hour review video 1 week after the initial seminar and also at the 4 week point for those who chose option 1 to ensure there are no unanswered questions. Those who remain in the group chat can do group video chats every now and again to answer any questions. I believe telegram is the preferred way nowadays.

 

Course scope

Those who wish to only cultivate the dantian and qi, this is the first of 3 levels.
Those who wish to learn the practices that lead to faqi, this is the first of 4 levels.

 

Level 2 practice can be taught after about 1-2 years of practice and the others depends on your individual progress. You need to reach a min level of qi cultivation before starting with them.

 

Payment

A week before the seminar we can all join the group chat, there we can share the zoom meeting ID, password and how to make the payment. I am thinking paypal and/or direct transfers

 

Warnings/Notes

• The practices taught are mainly standing, so please take this into consideration. I will provide sitting alternatives for those who need it but they are less effective.
• Those who love practices like reiki, frangrant qigong, etc, (practices where you guide universal qi through your body for the purpose of healing others or charging objects with energy) it's best to stick with them or if you want to learn neigong, you will need to give them up.
• The seminar will not be recorded and I ask that no one does record it. We will have plenty of time to review the practices and answer any questions. 
• I'll add more as they come up.

Edited September 9, 2021 by 小梦想

[EFreethought]

5 hours ago, 小梦想 said:

I have been notified by a few people now that they can't see my ppd, so i will post the details here too.

 

Neigong Seminar

Date:

18-19 September 2021 (Saturday and Sunday)

Cost:

Option 1: $500 with one month access to the group chat
Option 2: $300 with $50 a month ongoing payment for a group chat where we can discuss the practice, help with questions, support each other, do video chats for review, etc.

 

Please don't abuse the loophole in the payment structure, I offer both because it was requested. 

 

Time:

18 September 10PM Beijing time for about 2-3 hours.

19 September 10PM Beijing time for about 2-3 hours.

This should be early morning for the Americas, afternoon for the EU and late for those in NZ and Australia.

 

Platform:

Zoom online meeting.

 

Content:

Main Seminar
Foundation practices for activating the lower dantian, cultivating and refining qi. I will also be explaining the practices and habits that supplement the above and will help you get the most out of it along with ways to improve health and wellbeing.

 

 

Maybe you covered this: But will this be a one-time only event? Or do you plan on doing this a few times a year?

 

 

[小梦想]

5 hours ago, EFreethought said:

 

Maybe you covered this: But will this be a one-time only event? Or do you plan on doing this a few times a year?

 

I assume you are speaking about doing level 1 again, a few times a year. I hadn't really considered it and will see how many people join this one and how easy it is to teach via zoom. 

If all goes well and people are happy then maybe. I have taught a few people the first 3 levels via video chat but they were 1 on 1 and was easy enough. They did all previously learn from Master Jiang Feng though and already had some cultivation and understanding of the training prior to me giving the next stages of practice.

 

One of them had already reached the point where his dantian had enough qi to emit it with some assistance, so they knew what they were doing. They all have replaced their previous practice with the ones I showed them and seem really satisfied so all is good there.

Edited August 25, 2021 by 小梦想
Always fixing grammar.

[forestofclarity]

On 8/23/2021 at 5:05 AM, steve said:

Quite a few former members of DaoBums with interest in Daoist cultivation gather there now.

I'm also a bit surprised. I think the membership here now is relatively small. 

 

Well, some people may already be involved in Nei Gong already. COVID has really increased the availability of teachings. 

 

On 8/23/2021 at 5:05 AM, steve said:

My question is - would any of this create a potential problem if I were to work with your practices? 

 

Great question. I have a similar question regarding conditioned/unconditioned practices. It seems the more you do one, the tougher the other one gets. 

[小梦想]

2 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

Well, some people may already be involved in Nei Gong already. COVID has really increased the availability of teachings. 

If people are happy with what they are doing then I wish them all the best. If someone however wanted to get the "same" practices as what I am going to teach then this would need to happen.

Find a high level neigong teacher in china/asia, and manage to convince him to A- teach for free and B- teach real practices and not some random waigong method they tend to teach outdoor/unknown students, then you still need to get on a plane, fly there, get to the location of the teacher, pay for a hotel and food, lose a weeks income or holiday, etc. How much would that trip set you back? Id say at least $2k-$3k. The chances of getting both A and B offered is very unlikely.

 

In fact, my very first visit to a master and try to learn this was in 2011, 3 years before I started my practice. The cost of that trip, flight, hotel, etc was more than $3000, and I learned nothing. I was told that my health had a problem that had to be fixed before I could start cultivating qi so left completely empty handed. Was I sad, ofcourse, but I felt real qi, saw the lines of people waiting for treatment and it motivated me.

 

Me personally, if I was on the other side, would just risk paying $500 and see what is taught, even if it's total nonsense, it still would have been an acceptable risk to reward for me. It might not be total nonsense and then it's a bargain.

 

2 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

Great question. I have a similar question regarding conditioned/unconditioned practices. It seems the more you do one, the tougher the other one gets. 

It really does depend on what you goals are.

 

But for those who have an interest in neigong and qi cultivation, you need to correct methods. People obsess over the higher level practices and in my opinion that is just the wrong way of going about things. Building a foundation takes soo long that it's not even worth thinking about what comes after because you can't do them until you finished the foundational practices. People want to skip what is required and focus on the things they want to do without realizing they are shooting themselves in the foot.

Seeing yourself sailing on a beautiful boat is all well and wonderful. But what comes before that wonderful boat, you need to chop down the trees, process the wood into planks, build the boat, once you have the boat built then you focus on learning how to sail, once you can sail then you can enjoy the open waters. People want to sail without even having an axe or a saw, without knowing how to get wood and refine it into planks. without having clear instructions on how to make a boat. They want to skip forward to learning how to sail and enjoying the open sun.

Edited August 26, 2021 by 小梦想
Always fixing grammar.

[liminal_luke]

A question about age.  Is this the kind of thing where it´s never too late to start...or is it sometimes too late to start.  I´m 55, certainly not "old" but when people start talking in terms of decade(s) to establish a foundation it does give me pause.  Then again, perhaps it´s the kind of thing that is valuable no matter how far you get.  Has anyone started in their 50s and beyond and got very far?  Thoughts?

[小梦想]

3 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

A question about age.  Is this the kind of thing where it´s never too late to start...or is it sometimes too late to start.  I´m 55, certainly not "old" but when people start talking in terms of decade(s) to establish a foundation it does give me pause.  Then again, perhaps it´s the kind of thing that is valuable no matter how far you get.  Has anyone started in their 50s and beyond and got very far?  Thoughts?

I know quite a few people who learned from Master Jiang Feng in their 50s, and a woman who was over 60. The ones who were healthy, developed quicker than most in their 20s. They all got to the point of being able to faqi with assistance in less than 5 years, some of them only needed 3. Most guys in their 20, 30s take the same time if not longer because they have to deal with their own minds a lot more than mature practitioners.

I know many don't care about faqi, but you can't even try to faqi till you have the required amount of dantian cultiation under your belt, meaning they cultivated qi much quicker than most.

 

Qi is extra energy in the body, meaning it will assist the body providing more energy to whatever the main focus of your overall system is. Referring to either the sympathetic or parasympathetic nervous system and the related functions that go with either state. This means if you are constantly stressed, constantly worried about a job or a deadline or a colleague, constantly playing out arguments or situations that make your stress in your head, your body will not be doing much healing or maintenance, so extra qi will do very little for you. On the other hand, if your mind is calm, relaxed and at peace with a healthy lifestyle qi will do a lot for you and you will cultivate it very quickly too.

Edited August 26, 2021 by 小梦想
Always fixing grammar.

[Master Logray]

On 8/23/2021 at 7:05 PM, steve said:

 

You may also want to reach out to the people at https://www.originaldao.com/.

Quite a few former members of DaoBums with interest in Daoist cultivation gather there now.

I'm also a bit surprised. I think the membership here now is relatively small. 

I also think that the percentage of people who are interested in reading and sharing their opinions on spiritual cultivation far exceeds the number who choose to put their money, time, and years of effort into it. 

 

 

I think those interested in the philosophical or spiritual aspects are naturally attracted to the forum.  Those spend most time in sitting won't have much time to talk.

[doc benway]

3 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

I think those interested in the philosophical or spiritual aspects are naturally attracted to the forum.  Those spend most time in sitting won't have much time to talk.

 

My Daoist teacher used to tell us it is a waste of time to read about Daoism, every minute spent reading would be better spent practicing. He would often criticize the well known Daoist teachers and authors saying that with all of their videos and books, how could they possibly find time to practice? I think he was exaggerating a bit to make a point but there is an element of truth there when talking about experiential arts.

[forestofclarity]

 

19 hours ago, 小梦想 said:

teach real practices and not some random waigong method they tend to teach outdoor/unknown students

 

How would you discriminate between such practices?

 

19 hours ago, 小梦想 said:

Me personally, if I was on the other side, would just risk paying $500 and see what is taught, even if it's total nonsense, it still would have been an acceptable risk to reward for me. It might not be total nonsense and then it's a bargain.

 

The FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) never ends, in my experience. There's always another practice, lineage, initiation, etc. Even learning a short practice takes time away from other things/practices. 

 

19 hours ago, 小梦想 said:

Seeing yourself sailing on a beautiful boat is all well and wonderful.

 

Things are seldom as simple and clean as our conceptual mind would have us believe. Everything is on a spectrum, it is not all or nothing. Even something as simple as concentration can be presented in a way that is more or less conducive to less conditioned practices. Building up a foundation for one thing can tear down a foundation for something else. 

 

[小梦想]

4 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

How would you discriminate between such practices?

With enough experience and cultivation you can easily tell if a practice is one or the other. If you are asking how would a person going to such a teacher determine what is being taught....

 

Put very simply. A waigong is more focused on developing muscle, bone and fascia and a neigong is more focused on developing and working directly with the dantians and qi.

4 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

The FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) never ends, in my experience. There's always another practice, lineage, initiation, etc. Even learning a short practice takes time away from other things/practices. 

True. I think the main issue with this is a lack of results for many people, so they jump from one practice to the next.

I know a person who went to wudang and learned some taiji for 5 weeks. After he returned he starting promoting himself as a daoist teacher..... Started making posts about internal alchemy.... started taking students and charging them for it.....

 

4 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

 Building up a foundation for one thing can tear down a foundation for something else. 

Do you have any examples?

Edited August 27, 2021 by 小梦想
Always fixing grammar.

[Earl Grey]

57 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

I know a person who went to wudang and learned some taiji for 5 weeks. After he returned he starting promoting himself as a daoist teacher..... Started making posts about internal alchemy.... started taking students and charging them for it.....

 

Someone came to our school for a month, then suddenly, on social media, he was promoting himself as a master and had about 30 students suddenly, and he charged ten times what my teacher charges. 

 

A month later, he ran into a lot of trouble because not only did he teach wrong, but he caused some injuries due to the ridiculous stances he made up for Zhan Zhuang. 

 

Think of something between what Jim Carrey would do as Ace Ventura especially, and Chris Farley in any of his comedies, and you have an idea of what he thought would be "stronger and more improved than the weak postures he was originally taught". 

[小梦想]

18 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

Someone came to our school for a month, then suddenly, on social media, he was promoting himself as a master and had about 30 students suddenly, and he charged ten times what my teacher charges. 

The other side of the coin is this.

I know quite a few people who are Tudi's of well known and sought after Chinese Masters who have been with them for years who have not learned any neigong yet. They are doing waigong, barely understand the theory and have no cultivation themselves. They can however state they are such and suches masters tudi and teach and will most likely gather a lot of students because of the association.
 

It happens a lot to be honest. If you cannot speak Chinese but spent a long time learning from any school in china where they don't speak English, your chances of having learned anything considered indoor is virtually 0. If you can but are pushy or annoying, they will shut you up by teaching you random practices and telling you that you know all you need to and send you on your way or introduce you to other teachers to get you out of their hair. 

It's really not as simple as people think to get to the indoor practices of any school that is considered authentic.

[Earl Grey]

57 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

It happens a lot to be honest. If you cannot speak Chinese but spent a long time learning from any school in china where they don't speak English, your chances of having learned anything considered indoor is virtually 0. If you can but are pushy or annoying, they will shut you up by teaching you random practices and telling you that you know all you need to and send you on your way or introduce you to other teachers to get you out of their hair. 

 

Yes, one of my teachers calls this "graduating a student early". Sometimes they will also tell them that they are so advanced that they can do anything on their own, but must promise to never tell anyone that they learned from that teacher, because they are "vastly superior to the teacher now". 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Earl Grey